My experience with Ed Coan's Deadlift and Bench Program - Page 2

DieHollywoodDie · 10-15-2009, 03:52 PM

not sure if i just dug up some super old thread, but I am going to be running this for my lower body (along with some light squatting) since I hurt my knee awhile back and my back (and deadlift) got weaker while my squat strength caught up pretty quick. i'll be following the conjugate system for upper body and doing this for the lower body. my question is, I want to still lift at least 4x/week so i'll be doing a ME and a DE upper day...but this program dictates only 1 lower body day...would I be better splitting the DE and assistance and the heavy work and assistance into 2 days or would that be overtraining? or better yet cold i follow this on 1 day and the other lower day just do box squats and quad work?

endymion88 · 10-15-2009, 08:07 PM

most excellent writeup i wish i saw this before...this needs to be stickied ..somewhere

poopoo333 · 10-15-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieHollywoodDie

not sure if i just dug up some super old thread, but I am going to be running this for my lower body (along with some light squatting) since I hurt my knee awhile back and my back (and deadlift) got weaker while my squat strength caught up pretty quick. i'll be following the conjugate system for upper body and doing this for the lower body. my question is, I want to still lift at least 4x/week so i'll be doing a ME and a DE upper day...but this program dictates only 1 lower body day...would I be better splitting the DE and assistance and the heavy work and assistance into 2 days or would that be overtraining? or better yet cold i follow this on 1 day and the other lower day just do box squats and quad work?

I'm doing this program again right now, I just started this week. I am also doing ME/DE for upper, and lifting 4x a week. My lifting schedule is like this:

Sunday-ME Bench
Monday-Coan's DL
Wednesday-DE Bench
Thursday-Squats (using this: http://www.joeskopec.com/coancalc.html )

The rest of the days I am either doing active recovery work, GPP, or some sort of conditioning.

DieHollywoodDie · 10-15-2009, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poopoo333

I'm doing this program again right now, I just started this week. I am also doing ME/DE for upper, and lifting 4x a week. My lifting schedule is like this:

Sunday-ME Bench
Monday-Coan's DL
Wednesday-DE Bench
Thursday-Squats (using this: http://www.joeskopec.com/coancalc.html )

The rest of the days I am either doing active recovery work, GPP, or some sort of conditioning.

i'm trying to get 30-35lbs on my deadlift through the coan program. that seems very reasonable.

as for squats: I was thinking of even just doing a 5x5 for squats. 10 weeks is long enough that I should be able to hit a new PR, or I could do a 5x5 or 8x3 for 5 weeks in high bar squats and 5 weeks for low-box squats. i'm too worried though about overtraining doing that heavy though...any ideas? i'm not sure if i like the coan squat program. i'm always reluctant to do a 14 week etc. program because i'm not sure if it's going to work. i know westside works on my squats, just my deadlift has been stuck.

BEhave · 10-16-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieHollywoodDie

i'm trying to get 30-35lbs on my deadlift through the coan program. that seems very reasonable.

as for squats: I was thinking of even just doing a 5x5 for squats. 10 weeks is long enough that I should be able to hit a new PR, or I could do a 5x5 or 8x3 for 5 weeks in high bar squats and 5 weeks for low-box squats. i'm too worried though about overtraining doing that heavy though...any ideas? i'm not sure if i like the coan squat program. i'm always reluctant to do a 14 week etc. program because i'm not sure if it's going to work. i know westside works on my squats, just my deadlift has been stuck.

I'm doing the coan deadlift program right now, I'm on week 2. What I have done so far is on mondays, the coan program, then on wednesday, I do squats. I pretty much do a 5x5 ramping up to a top set of 5 followed by box squats ra,ping up to a top set of 3. I'm only on week 2 and have already hit prs in both squatting and deadlifting. I let my lower body rest for the rest of the week until my next deadlifting session the next monday. It gives me plenty of time to recover.

DieHollywoodDie · 10-16-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEhave

I'm doing the coan deadlift program right now, I'm on week 2. What I have done so far is on mondays, the coan program, then on wednesday, I do squats. I pretty much do a 5x5 ramping up to a top set of 5 followed by box squats ra,ping up to a top set of 3. I'm only on week 2 and have already hit prs in both squatting and deadlifting. I let my lower body rest for the rest of the week until my next deadlifting session the next monday. It gives me plenty of time to recover.

deadlift pr at week 2? doesnt make sense

BEhave · 10-16-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieHollywoodDie

deadlift pr at week 2? doesnt make sense

Well My max was around 375 but I never actually lifted that weight, just based off of what I had done in the past. I put my starting max as 375 and my ending max at 450. Thats how I got a pr on week 2. Granted I probably underestimated my max dl in the first place. We'll see where I end up.

DieHollywoodDie · 10-16-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEhave

Well My max was around 375 but I never actually lifted that weight, just based off of what I had done in the past. I put my starting max as 375 and my ending max at 450. Thats how I got a pr on week 2. Granted I probably underestimated my max dl in the first place. We'll see where I end up.

i finally have my strength back and started this my routine today. I started on my 'squat' day. i max out at around 405 on squats right now probably since my knee was hurt, but i chose to do a 5x5 on my squat day as my "heavy" sets and then go onto to typical westside assistance with a focus on quads and glutes (box squats, leg press, front squats) and i'm going to increase every week by 10lbs until its hard to increase, then 5lbs, then increase 5lbs and work on repping out weight. i started with 295 today, 305 next week, 315 week after etc. i figured i should be repping about 375 for 5x5 by the end of my program (probly 1rm at 420) and deadlifting 30+ more lbs for a 1RM, not a bad idea. coan actually did leg extensions and stuff like that...not to mention follows periodization!

BEhave · 10-16-2009, 04:32 PM

Yea maybe I will add leg extensions/leg press on my squat day as well. Even with the deads and squats, I don't feel my quads are getting enough work, and they will have tons of time to recover. I like using the programs of these great lifters, but sometimes, I like to put what I have learned from them together and make my own thing.

Philip81193 · 10-16-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poopoo333

Here is what I had to do...

10 being the easiest

Week 1-1x2, 365 1/10
Week 2-1x2, 390 3/10
Week 3-1x2, 410 6/10
Week 4-1x2, 435 7/10
Week 5-3x3, 390 2/10
Week 6-1x2, 410 4/10
Week 7-1x2, 435 5/10
Week 8-1x2, 460 8/10
Week 9-Single with 475 10/10
Week 10-Single with 485 9/10

As you can see, week 2 was hard for one double, and week 5 ended up being easier for 3 triples. Over the weeks, the weight you did earlier in the program feels lighter. Another example would be week 3 and 6.

10 is the easiest?
I just finished week 3 of Coan/Phillipi, but I'm having a rough time wrapping my head around week 10 being easier than week 1.

poopoo333 · 10-16-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip81193

10 is the easiest?
I just finished week 3 of Coan/Phillipi, but I'm having a rough time wrapping my head around week 10 being easier than week 1.

Oh damn haha, I meant 10 is the hardest. Wow, I'm surprised I haven't been called out on that yet.

holbee · 10-17-2009, 06:51 AM

Hey poo, this thread has had me doing coan/phillipi since you started it back then. Still working through it, but gotta say:

My speed on the lifts is WAY up,
my strength on the lifts is ok, nothing great yet.
recovery is lousy (my fault though)

Let us know how round 2 goes for you!

**Arlecchino** · 10-17-2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poopoo333

Oh damn haha, I meant 10 is the hardest. Wow, I'm surprised I haven't been called out on that yet.

Fixed your original post for you.

poopoo333 · 10-17-2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holbee

Hey poo, this thread has had me doing coan/phillipi since you started it back then. Still working through it, but gotta say:

My speed on the lifts is WAY up,
my strength on the lifts is ok, nothing great yet.
recovery is lousy (my fault though)

Let us know how round 2 goes for you!

What week are you on? I felt that the routine kind of helped me peaked for weeks 8-10, and those heavy doubles weren't exactly too heavy. The speed sets were actually really fun if they went up fast (week 4 went up slow for me... every single rep).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlecchino

Fixed your original post for you.

Thanks pal.

DieHollywoodDie · 10-17-2009, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holbee

Hey poo, this thread has had me doing coan/phillipi since you started it back then. Still working through it, but gotta say:

My speed on the lifts is WAY up,
my strength on the lifts is ok, nothing great yet.
recovery is lousy (my fault though)

Let us know how round 2 goes for you!

what was your approach to squatting on the program?

poopoo333 · 10-17-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieHollywoodDie

what was your approach to squatting on the program?

I know this wasn't directed to me, but don't be afraid of squatting heavy on this program. Just make sure the days are far enough apart, train smart, use proper recovery methods, and make sure you are getting in the food. I ended up with a 30 lb meet PR after running Coan's deadlift along with heavy squats (I used 5/3/1 with 100% of my max, so I was squatting heavier than I was supposed to).

DieHollywoodDie · 10-23-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEhave

I'm doing the coan deadlift program right now, I'm on week 2. What I have done so far is on mondays, the coan program, then on wednesday, I do squats. I pretty much do a 5x5 ramping up to a top set of 5 followed by box squats ra,ping up to a top set of 3. I'm only on week 2 and have already hit prs in both squatting and deadlifting. I let my lower body rest for the rest of the week until my next deadlifting session the next monday. It gives me plenty of time to recover.

how's this going for you? i am finishing week 2 tomorrow and it's nice to be pulling a little more and be able to focus my work a little. my squats i started very conservatively (295 for 5x5) and am adding 5-10lbs every week. my squat PR was about 405 so if I am back up to my previous PR i will be happy then I will switch back to standard westside and push for a 425 squat. since the deadlift day (i lift conventional) is very lower-back intensive, I chose to make my assistance on the leg day to be heavier ham/glute/quad work as opposed to lower back (4x8 lowwww box squats on a ~8-10" box), band leg curls (4x8), leg press (2x20), back raises (3x20) i never do exercises with a set rest-interval but for the coan program i am doing those precise rest intervals. question: are you guys increasing the assistance weights every week or doing the same weight? i think i'm going to be sticking with the same assistance weights for 3 weeks then up them. what did coan suggest?

BEhave · 10-23-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieHollywoodDie

how's this going for you? i am finishing week 2 tomorrow and it's nice to be pulling a little more and be able to focus my work a little. my squats i started very conservatively (295 for 5x5) and am adding 5-10lbs every week. my squat PR was about 405 so if I am back up to my previous PR i will be happy then I will switch back to standard westside and push for a 425 squat. since the deadlift day (i lift conventional) is very lower-back intensive, I chose to make my assistance on the leg day to be heavier ham/glute/quad work as opposed to lower back (4x8 lowwww box squats on a ~8-10" box), band leg curls (4x8), leg press (2x20), back raises (3x20) i never do exercises with a set rest-interval but for the coan program i am doing those precise rest intervals. question: are you guys increasing the assistance weights every week or doing the same weight? i think i'm going to be sticking with the same assistance weights for 3 weeks then up them. what did coan suggest?

At first I was increasing the assistance weight every week, but then I quickly realized that the weight that you deadlift increases every week as well, so I stopped doing that. I will probably just do what your doing and add some weight to them every couple of weeks or as soon as they get too easy. The program is going good so far. I also like pulling heavy. I missed out on squats this week. I messed up my knees doing box squats wrong last week and decided not to risk anything this week. I think I'm goiong to add leg extensions onto my squat day. Maybe some leg curls too. I'm really digging coan's philosophy to training. Really simple.

DieHollywoodDie · 10-27-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEhave

At first I was increasing the assistance weight every week, but then I quickly realized that the weight that you deadlift increases every week as well, so I stopped doing that. I will probably just do what your doing and add some weight to them every couple of weeks or as soon as they get too easy. The program is going good so far. I also like pulling heavy. I missed out on squats this week. I messed up my knees doing box squats wrong last week and decided not to risk anything this week. I think I'm goiong to add leg extensions onto my squat day. Maybe some leg curls too. I'm really digging coan's philosophy to training. Really simple.

the slight increases are nice but i realized yesterday that i have to change my bench day slightly. since i'm doing rows and chins on deadlift day, I figure I need to decrease my back work on my bench days to account for this, as my upper back is a little fatigued. i do my workout in the order of ME Bench -> Coan Deadlift -> DE Bench -> 5x5 Squats ....as a result I am going to take my ME bench back work and add a little to my squat day. I'll be hitting back heavy on my deadlift day (obviously through the coan workout) and then light-medium intensity on squat day with more volume of rowing and chins. Additionally, the one addition I am making is some grip/trap work as an extra workout the night of my deadlift day or the next morning. In the past my grip has limited my ability to dead (plus a lack of chalk) and I have weak/small traps so I'm going to bring that up. Otherwise all is going well and I upped the assistance a little. I decided against adding more leg isolation on squat day since my main lift is full squats with a medium stance and that will get me enough quad work I hope.

thus my workout now looks like:

1) Coan Deadlift Program
2) DE Bench (Speed bench, CGBP, DB incline bench, lateral raises, light abs)
3) Squats 5x5 -> (extremely low box squats, BW back raises, leg curls, t-bar rows)
4) ME bench (3second-pause bench, DB flat bench, CG rack lockouts, heavy abs)

plus 2 extra workouts/week:
a) ME pullups [just hit BW+110!] and abs
b) heavy shrugs->bar holds-> plate grips -> light abs

BEhave · 10-27-2009, 07:12 PM

I'm adding more core work because my core sucks. Be careful with adding more back work. You may be able to handle it though, experimenting is a good idea and your probably at a point in the program where you won't fail a pull because of a couple of extra sets of back work on other days. I have still decided not to add to my assitance work. As the deadlift gets heavier, the assistance gets harder.

DieHollywoodDie · 11-02-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEhave

I'm adding more core work because my core sucks. Be careful with adding more back work. You may be able to handle it though, experimenting is a good idea and your probably at a point in the program where you won't fail a pull because of a couple of extra sets of back work on other days. I have still decided not to add to my assitance work. As the deadlift gets heavier, the assistance gets harder.

I just finished week 3 and it was very easy. The working sets I ripped with intensity and speed as expected and the the heavier speed deadlifting definitely has been beneficial as I feel moderate weights flying up off the floor faster than ever before. Deadlifting in this manner has given me the opportunity to work on my technique a lot. In the past I wouldnt notice the bar dragging up my thighs and I feel like it has taught me to bring my grip in a little, bring my hips up slightly, have a quicker setup to attack the bar more intensely, and play around with rounding the upper back. Additionally, my grip has been fine on all of my lifts. This is definitely from a switch to double-overhand in my warmup sets and the supersetting of pullups and rows, in addition to heavy bar holds I incorporated. Supposedly week 4 is supposed to be hard but I am not too concerned. I felt like I could've worked up to a PR today (and I came into the gym tired and unfocused), but I want to trust the system and keep on waiting to hit a new PR. I figure at week 10 I will hit my new PR, then if I feel like I can do it, I'll see if I can go beyond that. No point in messing with the system at this point. I'm feeling fine in terms of not overtraining etc. and my squats are slowly going up as well with my linear progression. I'll deload once I can't hit a set of 5 on squats. Today I actually didn't increase the weights on my assistance, but I went further on my last circuit, towards near failure. I hit 10 solid reps with the weight I had been doing for 8 on SLDLs. Obviously I need to up the weight for assistance.

Question:

Why does coan include power shrugs as an exercise and not something like romanian deadlifts or GHRs? Also, I don't really know how to incorporate the "power" element of the shrug. Any advice?

BEhave · 11-03-2009, 08:05 AM

There are some videos on youtube of the power shrug. It looks almost like something an olympic lifter would do. As for me. I've burnt out lol. I got sick this past weekend and still felt like crap yesterday. I did the workout and barely finished it. The good news is that I'm a lot stronger, either that or I have always simply been afraid of putting more weight on the bar and picking it up. My max dl went from 375 to 405x2. I was extremely ambitious on what I put in the calculator. I had put my goal as 450 lol. I'm happy with the results anyways and like the routine but wish I could have finished it. Next time I do it, I will put more moderate numbers. I'm trying Travis's routine next and will put more moderate numbers there. Good luck

DieHollywoodDie · 11-03-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEhave

There are some videos on youtube of the power shrug. It looks almost like something an olympic lifter would do. As for me. I've burnt out lol. I got sick this past weekend and still felt like crap yesterday. I did the workout and barely finished it. The good news is that I'm a lot stronger, either that or I have always simply been afraid of putting more weight on the bar and picking it up. My max dl went from 375 to 405x2. I was extremely ambitious on what I put in the calculator. I had put my goal as 450 lol. I'm happy with the results anyways and like the routine but wish I could have finished it. Next time I do it, I will put more moderate numbers. I'm trying Travis's routine next and will put more moderate numbers there. Good luck

to be honest you should just run the program one more time with a 35lb increase. if you gain 35lbs on your DL every 10 weeks for a year straight you're gonna have a 175lb increase in a year! unlikely but why not try

Coach McGuirk · 11-03-2009, 12:16 PM

im in week 3 of my DL routine

I had done this twice before with great success

I agree 100% with your statements on the assistance work

I forget my exact numbers but at a weight of 160lbs i went from pulling 355ish to 395 (in the gym) over 22 weeks (did the program twice with a break inbetween)

Coach McGuirk · 11-03-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieHollywoodDie

Question:

Why does coan include power shrugs as an exercise and not something like romanian deadlifts or GHRs? Also, I don't really know how to incorporate the "power" element of the shrug. Any advice?

the "stiff-leg DL's" are performed like a romanian dl i for this program i thought??? at least thats how i've always done them

it also includes good mornings

the power shrugs are to prepare you for the top end of the DL

BEhave · 11-03-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieHollywoodDie

to be honest you should just run the program one more time with a 35lb increase. if you gain 35lbs on your DL every 10 weeks for a year straight you're gonna have a 175lb increase in a year! unlikely but why not try

You know what, might as well!

DieHollywoodDie · 11-09-2009, 02:02 PM

well, i'm in week 5 and must say:

1) on medium-weights, I am FLYING the bar up. The heavier weights, my first rep flies up, but the others are a bit slower.
2) Week 4 was rather easy, I'm somewhat worried about week 8 (i think that's the week) when I doube 102% of my previous 1RM, just because the 2nd lift of my week 4 double was a little slower than usual.
3) I fully expect my week 10 lift to be a grinder
4) I figure since I'm cutting out squats in week 10 (and maybe 9) that once I finish this program, I will treat it as a squat-deload week and go back to squatting and take a week off of pulling anything more than 50%
5) Speed deads in week 4 were definitely not FAST, but I would get at least the first one flying up, the 2nd one up pretty fast ,and the 3rd rep would be normal pace pretty much.
6) I've been keeping detailed notes of each workout and ramping up the weight accordingly. I started off doing the SLDLs with 225 and am up to 275 while my good mornings went from 115 to 165. I do chinups instead of pulldowns, which are hard to do just because of the rows before them (similar muscles) so I swapped my t-bar rows which I had been doing to 1-arm DB rows (for focusing on imbalances and since theyre easier on the bis/grip then tbars/bbs)
7) my grip has been working great since I started training grip a month ago. I hurt my wrist, thumb, and fingers playing basketball but still was able to hold onto 275x8.
8) The pure volume of deadlifting is teaching me to get better form. I've been practicing.