Life After My 1st Bodybuilding Competition...

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by kingor

I'll ya you what man, you still look big in your second side chest pose. You can def notice a difference in your legs brotha.

Good to hear Isaac is not jealous or anything. That is always the worste part haha, my parents told me when I was younger my older brother was jealous of me so he would always hit me and such ahah.

I tell ya I been lifting hard lately, and my one friend just joined my gym so we go almost every night, its good to have someone there because they can motivate you more. All my lifts have been going up. I am repping 100lb bb curls pretty good now. I am going to up the weight soon. These two hot chicks were checking me out too, I was like hell yeaaaaah. I have been really focusing on my triceps too, trying to get them pop more. up to 150lb v-bar push downs with good form. Both my friends whom I lift with every so often say my arms are jacked, so I guess thats a good thing haha. I'm dipping about bw+70lbs now which is pretty good I guess, compared to only being able to do bw+25lbs last year haha. We'll see how it all goes.

That all sounds AWESOME to me, Pete! Great progress

You're right about havin a good lifting partner. The only thing that sucks about lifting w/ someone is the time in the gym is way longer. I just don't have time for it right now.

Yeah, hopefully Isaac won't be jealous. Time will tell...

Keep goin strong, broskie

[kingor]

Originally Posted by smallguyjoe

That all sounds AWESOME to me, Pete! Great progress

You're right about havin a good lifting partner. The only thing that sucks about lifting w/ someone is the time in the gym is way longer. I just don't have time for it right now.

Yeah, hopefully Isaac won't be jealous. Time will tell...

Keep goin strong, broskie

Thanks, I tell ya what I am in and out in the same amount of time. Sure we bs sometimes, while we are lifting, but I feel like sometimes I need that extra few seconds to recover. Today we did legs and abs and were done in about 35 mins, fastest we ever lifted lol. We kept pushing each other with 30 second rest breaks. My legs were DEAD by the end, I was surprised I was able to still walk. Hack squats killed them.

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by kingor

Thanks, I tell ya what I am in and out in the same amount of time. Sure we bs sometimes, while we are lifting, but I feel like sometimes I need that extra few seconds to recover. Today we did legs and abs and were done in about 35 mins, fastest we ever lifted lol. We kept pushing each other with 30 second rest breaks. My legs were DEAD by the end, I was surprised I was able to still walk. Hack squats killed them.

Nice! 30 sec rests are killer! I haven't trained like that since before my show. I've been doin longer rests and tryin to move more weight with each set. I've been trying to get stronger. It's worked a little, I think.

That's great you guys can stay focused. You've got yourself a good workout buddy

[smallguyjoe]

8/10/2009 - 10/28/2009

Estimated 1RMs for 8/10/2009:

Flat BB = 252 lbs*
Pull Up = 154 lbs (BW) + 68 lbs
BB Curl = 94 lbs*
BB Shoulder = 135 lbs**
DB Split Squats = 40's

*Bench Press and BB Curl are the only exercises that I had actually done 1RMs for goin into this. Bench was 250 lbs, and BB Curl was at least 95 lbs - maybe even as high as 100 lbs.

**I had not been doing BB Front Presses for a good while. The actual estimated 1RM was 104 lbs, but I am pretty confident that I could have put up 135 lbs x 1. I also want note that my Shoulder BB Press is full ROM, i.e. I lower the bar down to my clavicles, not my chin while my head is back.


Now for the PROGRESS...


1 RMs for 10/28/2009:

Flat BB = 260 lbs
Pull Up = 163 lbs (BW) + 80 lbs
BB Curl = 105 lbs
BB Shoulder = 155 lbs
DB Split Squats= 75's*


*Some notes regarding Leg training:
-My 1RM is based off of what I was using for 4 reps per side during Week 11 - 70's x 4 reps per side. During Week 1 I did 12 reps per side w/ 25's.
-I was very cautious with Leg Presses and Hack Squats the whole time; I NEVER went to failure. I am pretty certain that I could have Leg Pressed more at the onset of this 3 month program, and I also am certain that I could have made bigger weight increases on my Hack Squat. So, you get the idea of what I mean here are the differences in Leg Press and Hack Squat from start to finish (estimated 1RMs):

Start:
Hack = 504 lbs (350 lbs x 12)
Leg Press = 533 lbs (370 lbs x 12)

Finish:
Hack = 502 lbs (460 lbs x 4, and could have done more)
Leg Press = 792 lbs (I did 660 lbs x 7, and this was the closest to failure that I got)

-To give more of an idea of leg strength progress here are some more #s:

Seated Leg Curl: Start = 145 x 1 vs Finish = 164 x 1
Leg Ext: Start = 187 x 1 vs Finish = 256 x 1

^^^I definitely went as hard as I could each time with these two exercises; well, perhaps not with Leg Ext in the beginning, LOL, that's quite a jump in 1RM .



Alright, so there ya have it... a heck of a lot of confusing crap LOL. Well, I'm trying to be thorough, and honest.

I am happy with my progress. I feel stronger, and pretty confident that I made some good LBM gains.

I will update with some pics and stats in a few days. I will be starting some type of cut... not sure how long it will be for. I don't feel fat, which is progress for me! I am however fatter than what I wanted to be peak bulk. I am ~162 lbs ~13.5% bf w/ the Omron... ideally I would have finished bulking at 10% bf, but oh well... I started the 12 week routine at 11.5%, so I knew I had already missed that goal .

I feel I did pretty well, and for the 1st time in a long time I feel I have been training properly! I am hoping to keep this pace up

[kingor]

Originally Posted by smallguyjoe

8/10/2009 - 10/28/2009

Estimated 1RMs for 8/10/2009:

Flat BB = 252 lbs*
Pull Up = 154 lbs (BW) + 68 lbs
BB Curl = 94 lbs*
BB Shoulder = 135 lbs**
DB Split Squats = 40's

*Bench Press and BB Curl are the only exercises that I had actually done 1RMs for goin into this. Bench was 250 lbs, and BB Curl was at least 95 lbs - maybe even as high as 100 lbs.

**I had not been doing BB Front Presses for a good while. The actual estimated 1RM was 104 lbs, but I am pretty confident that I could have put up 135 lbs x 1. I also want note that my Shoulder BB Press is full ROM, i.e. I lower the bar down to my clavicles, not my chin while my head is back.


Now for the PROGRESS...


1 RMs for 10/28/2009:

Flat BB = 260 lbs
Pull Up = 163 lbs (BW) + 80 lbs
BB Curl = 105 lbs
BB Shoulder = 155 lbs
DB Split Squats= 75's*


*Some notes regarding Leg training:
-My 1RM is based off of what I was using for 4 reps per side during Week 11 - 70's x 4 reps per side. During Week 1 I did 12 reps per side w/ 25's.
-I was very cautious with Leg Presses and Hack Squats the whole time; I NEVER went to failure. I am pretty certain that I could have Leg Pressed more at the onset of this 3 month program, and I also am certain that I could have made bigger weight increases on my Hack Squat. So, you get the idea of what I mean here are the differences in Leg Press and Hack Squat from start to finish (estimated 1RMs):

Start:
Hack = 504 lbs (350 lbs x 12)
Leg Press = 533 lbs (370 lbs x 12)

Finish:
Hack = 502 lbs (460 lbs x 4, and could have done more)
Leg Press = 792 lbs (I did 660 lbs x 7, and this was the closest to failure that I got)

-To give more of an idea of leg strength progress here are some more #s:

Seated Leg Curl: Start = 145 x 1 vs Finish = 164 x 1
Leg Ext: Start = 187 x 1 vs Finish = 256 x 1

^^^I definitely went as hard as I could each time with these two exercises; well, perhaps not with Leg Ext in the beginning, LOL, that's quite a jump in 1RM .



Alright, so there ya have it... a heck of a lot of confusing crap LOL. Well, I'm trying to be thorough, and honest.

I am happy with my progress. I feel stronger, and pretty confident that I made some good LBM gains.

I will update with some pics and stats in a few days. I will be starting some type of cut... not sure how long it will be for. I don't feel fat, which is progress for me! I am however fatter than what I wanted to be peak bulk. I am ~162 lbs ~13.5% bf w/ the Omron... ideally I would have finished bulking at 10% bf, but oh well... I started the 12 week routine at 11.5%, so I knew I had already missed that goal .

I feel I did pretty well, and for the 1st time in a long time I feel I have been training properly! I am hoping to keep this pace up

Awesome gains Joe! Glad to see you are progressing well. Keep it up my duude! Hope all is well with you.

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by kingor

Awesome gains Joe! Glad to see you are progressing well. Keep it up my duude! Hope all is well with you.

Thanks, Pete; you too

[smallguyjoe]

Here I am at 161.7 lbs 13.6% bf.

I updated my bodyspace with my current measurements. The important thing is I grew all over... got a little fatter than I wanted to, but that is mostly due to my poor eating the 10 days after my show. After that I did pretty well... not perfect... but not bad at keepin fat gains low. Hoping to do even better next time.

Since June...
-I gained 19.7 lbs (142.0 lbs to 161.7 lbs)
-Waist went up 3" (30.25" to 33.25" - where I wear my boxers)
-Fat lbs went up 10.7 lbs (11.2 lbs to 21.9 lbs)
-LBM went up 9 lbs (130.8 lbs to 139.8 lbs)
-BF% went up from 7.9% to 13.6%
-In theory if I lose 1 lb per week in 12 weeks I should be 150 lbs 8% bf

So, depending on how I feel I plan on cutting 4-12 weeks. Most likely it will be at least 8 weeks, but I am thinking 12 would be great to get down to how I was for the show, or at least very close. I will be more lenient since I am not prepping for a show, and the holidays are comin up. I think 1 lb/week is do-able though, in which case if I can manage to hold on to muscle this time I should get down to 150 lbs 8% bf (8-9 lbs above contest weight and same bf%).

I will be lifting heavy throughout this cut... I learned from my prep... "USE IT OR LOSE IT"... LOL... I lost it during my cut . Also, I am going to try higher protein this time; I think my low protein intake had something to do with some muscle loss last time. Last, I will not be aiming to lose more than 1.5 lbs per week; I'll probably stick to only 1 lb per week for the whole cut. I think during my prep that trying to lose more per week really messed me up. It might moreso have to due with how low my protein was, and how light of weights I was lifting, but since I have no deadline or %bf that I need to reach, I am not going to push things. I WANT TO KEEP WHAT I HAVE WORKED HARD TO GAIN!!!

The sad thing is that I basically just spent the last 5 months busting my butt to gain back what I lost during the 5 months of prepping . Yeah, I looked back at my sheets that have my #'s on them, and I lost "at least" 8-10 lbs of LBM during my prep. I say "at least" b/c sadly enough it is VERY possible that I lost even more... as much as ~17 lbs to be exact, according to my measurements/estimations of bf% and such. Oh well. Can't go back in time, so I'm moving on, and tryin not to repeat my past mistakes.

[kingor]

Originally Posted by smallguyjoe

Here I am at 161.7 lbs 13.6% bf.

I updated my bodyspace with my current measurements. The important thing is I grew all over... got a little fatter than I wanted to, but that is mostly due to my poor eating the 10 days after my show. After that I did pretty well... not perfect... but not bad at keepin fat gains low. Hoping to do even better next time.

Since June...
-I gained 19.7 lbs (142.0 lbs to 161.7 lbs)
-Waist went up 3" (30.25" to 33.25" - where I wear my boxers)
-Fat lbs went up 10.7 lbs (11.2 lbs to 21.9 lbs)
-LBM went up 9 lbs (130.8 lbs to 139.8 lbs)
-BF% went up from 7.9% to 13.6%
-In theory if I lose 1 lb per week in 12 weeks I should be 150 lbs 8% bf

So, depending on how I feel I plan on cutting 4-12 weeks. Most likely it will be at least 8 weeks, but I am thinking 12 would be great to get down to how I was for the show, or at least very close. I will be more lenient since I am not prepping for a show, and the holidays are comin up. I think 1 lb/week is do-able though, in which case if I can manage to hold on to muscle this time I should get down to 150 lbs 8% bf (8-9 lbs above contest weight and same bf%).

I will be lifting heavy throughout this cut... I learned from my prep... "USE IT OR LOSE IT"... LOL... I lost it during my cut . Also, I am going to try higher protein this time; I think my low protein intake had something to do with some muscle loss last time. Last, I will not be aiming to lose more than 1.5 lbs per week; I'll probably stick to only 1 lb per week for the whole cut. I think during my prep that trying to lose more per week really messed me up. It might moreso have to due with how low my protein was, and how light of weights I was lifting, but since I have no deadline or %bf that I need to reach, I am not going to push things. I WANT TO KEEP WHAT I HAVE WORKED HARD TO GAIN!!!

The sad thing is that I basically just spent the last 5 months busting my butt to gain back what I lost during the 5 months of prepping . Yeah, I looked back at my sheets that have my #'s on them, and I lost "at least" 8-10 lbs of LBM during my prep. I say "at least" b/c sadly enough it is VERY possible that I lost even more... as much as ~17 lbs to be exact, according to my measurements/estimations of bf% and such. Oh well. Can't go back in time, so I'm moving on, and tryin not to repeat my past mistakes.

Delts, Quads, Arms, Forearms, and calves look like they got a lot bigger If only I had time to go to the gym lately...School is kicking my ass.

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by kingor

Delts, Quads, Arms, Forearms, and calves look like they got a lot bigger If only I had time to go to the gym lately...School is kicking my ass.

Thanks, Pete!

Sorry to hear that... try and do what ya can, man!

[smallguyjoe]

Alright... this all sucks, but it's reality. I just want to point out my lack of progress, and what I've learned in light of it all.

For starters, for the sake of discussion, let's agree that I am:

153 lbs 12.5% bf (133.9 LBM) here...


179 lbs 20% bf (143.2 LBM) here...


156 lbs 12.5% bf (136.5 LBM) here...


168 lbs 16% bf (141.2 LBM) here...


142 lbs 8% bf (130.7 LBM) here...


and, currently...

162 lbs 13.5% bf (140.2 LBM) here...



Now, it does not take rocket science to see how much I have failed in the past 2 yrs or so.

In my defense, I did suffer a back injury a little over 1 yr ago that has seriously set me back, and is a big factor to how much muscle I lost from around Oct 2008 - June 2009.

Injury aside though, let's talk about my past mistakes...

Anyone who's read my previous journals/posts knows that I did not have a good understanding of "bulking" intake (hence the 179 lbs @ 20% bf in Jan 2008). I say "intake" b/c I knew what foods to eat, but did not realize that if I was eating good/clean foods in excess that I would get fat if the surplus was great enough. Stupid mistake, but hey, being on bb.com and hearing people say "eat, eat, eat" and "just make sure it's all clean" led me to believe that all clean foods would have me put on ALL muscle and NO fat. Then I figured that: more food = more muscle. Bla bla bla... ANYWAY, I know way better now, and I know how foolish I was then.

So, aside from my injury last year, what the heck went wrong that I went from a LBM of 141.2 lbs to a LBM of 130.7 lbs from 5 months of cutting????

The answer is a mix of these factors:

1. a misunderstanding of the "use it or lose it" phenomenon
2. eating too little protein (most days I only ate 1 x bw (lbs); some days less)
3. trying to lose too much too fast

*The first two of these really contribute to my failure, b/c if I had lifted properly and eaten enough protein I may have lost less muscle while trying to lose 1.5 - 2 lbs per week.

Regarding #1, I thought as long as I trained the muscle my body would not break the muscle down for energy. So, in order to not fail at heavy attempts I would just lift significently lighter than I would usually. I didn't do this the whole time, but I did this especially towards the end (when I was trying to lose like 2 lbs/week). I was just so tired I did not want to lift heavy. I know better now! "Use it, or lose it" means make your brain and muscles work together in such a way that the body makes it a priority to hold on to the muscle. This is done by using the muscles just like you would when trying to gain muscle. As hard as it may be some times the goal should be to try and progress with reps and/or weight being moved. Like I said, I know better now.


So, I am now currently 3 lbs of LBM away from where I was almost 2 yrs ago. Pretty sad, huh? My current plan is to cut to somewhere around 8-9% bf in 12 weeks (hopefully 8% like I was at the show). I am going to lift heavy (6-10 reps mostly), eat ~1.2 x bw (lbs) of grams/protein/day, do re-feeds 2x per week, and my weight loss goal per week is only 1 lb. These next 12 weeks I am going to do my best to keep my LBM at 140 lbs while I lower my bf%. After my cutting phase I am going to do what I wanted to do after my show in June but did not have the mental drive to do. Basically I will spend 1-2 months slowly increasing Calories to a maintenance level so that I might possibly hold my bf% at 8%, and my body will not see storing fat as a priority since it will slowly adapt to the increase of Cals. This may or may not work; it'd be nice if it does LOL. Then I hope to successfully gain LBM for 4-6 months without peaking over 10% bf. We'll see. LOL, so far I have been quite unsuccessful when trying to meet my goals. "Trial and Error" though, right? Eventually all these errors will lead to "Trial and Success"... HOPEFULLY!

[kingor]

i wouldnt say you failed for the last 2 years by any means mr joe. You have achieved results you never would have though would have been possible. You are probably being a little too critical on yourself. You have achieved a lot over the past two years, and most importantly you've increased your knowledge dramatically. Perhaps you need to take a step back, re-analyze, and try something new. The great thing about bodybuilding is that there are so many options and it is never ending!

As much as you might not want to hear this, but gainning a little bit of fat might not be that big of a deal. Maybe (and I am probably wrong) you should just try bulking for a bit longer and see where you end up at. Or maybe you should induce cardio (I believe you currently aren't doing any correct?).

From what I understand the formula for success is having a spot on diet, training, resting, and doing cardio for an hour 3 times a week. I have spoken with many people at my gym who ive seen increase in size dramatically over the months and they do not "cut" and they all said your diet is number 1, rest #2, trainning #3, and cardio (as much as people hate it especially when they are bulking) is #4. Cardio helps burn off the little bit of fat you are gainning from over eating.

So, as much as you hate cardio (as we all do) perhaps implementing that a few times a week would burn off the little bit of bf increase your seeing, which will make you regain your confidence and you that you truly are doing everything correctly. Lets be realistic your diet and trainning are spot on, and i am sure your resting well (except for your little girl keeping you up at night how is she doing btw?), so the missing element would be cardio.

This is just my 2 cents, but ive seen it work for others and I personally really want to start following it, its just i have been so busy and I know that is no excuse. But with the dedication you have, i know you can do it!

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by kingor

i wouldnt say you failed for the last 2 years by any means mr joe. You have achieved results you never would have though would have been possible. You are probably being a little too critical on yourself. You have achieved a lot over the past two years, and most importantly you've increased your knowledge dramatically. Perhaps you need to take a step back, re-analyze, and try something new. The great thing about bodybuilding is that there are so many options and it is never ending!

As much as you might not want to hear this, but gainning a little bit of fat might not be that big of a deal. Maybe (and I am probably wrong) you should just try bulking for a bit longer and see where you end up at. Or maybe you should induce cardio (I believe you currently aren't doing any correct?).

From what I understand the formula for success is having a spot on diet, training, resting, and doing cardio for an hour 3 times a week. I have spoken with many people at my gym who ive seen increase in size dramatically over the months and they do not "cut" and they all said your diet is number 1, rest #2, trainning #3, and cardio (as much as people hate it especially when they are bulking) is #4. Cardio helps burn off the little bit of fat you are gainning from over eating.

So, as much as you hate cardio (as we all do) perhaps implementing that a few times a week would burn off the little bit of bf increase your seeing, which will make you regain your confidence and you that you truly are doing everything correctly. Lets be realistic your diet and trainning are spot on, and i am sure your resting well (except for your little girl keeping you up at night how is she doing btw?), so the missing element would be cardio.

This is just my 2 cents, but ive seen it work for others and I personally really want to start following it, its just i have been so busy and I know that is no excuse. But with the dedication you have, i know you can do it!

Good lookin out, Pete . Thanks for the advice/encouragement, man!

I agree with you on something: there are so many people who have never cut and are lean and big. So, what's goin on here?

Well, I've thought about this before, and I've been recently thinking more about this phenominon. I tried doin some searching on here yesterday, and couldn't really find much. But, it seems so many people go about gaining the wrong way, I being one of them.

Let me pose a question:

IS IT NECESSARY TO GAIN FAT WHILE GAINING MUSCLE?

I don't know the answer to this question, but I am beginning to think that fat gain is not a necessary component of muscle gains. If there are so many people who have gained plenty of size without ever "bulking", and these same people have never "cut", then WHY do so many of us "bulk" and "cut"? Well perhaps doing it the bulk/cut style is a simple way to insure muscle gains, and it is how MOST competitive bodybuilders go about it.

I am theorizing that it may in fact be possible to lose fat very slowly over time while gaining muscle also pretty slowly over time without "bulking" or "cutting," so to speak.

I do not know the science behind my theory, but I am kind of testing it out currently, I think. The past 3 weeks I haven't lost any weight on the scale, and my body fat (w/ the Omron) has not budged. I've actually gained some weight. I feel my mid section looks "better," not good, but "better." My upper body is lookin slightly fuller/bigger to me. Maybe it's in my head, maybe not. The scale says I gained weight though, and I am getting stronger. Now I think my size and strength gains and weight gain is highly a product of the 10 grams of creatine I take intra workouts Mon-Fri. But, I also think I am gaining actual muscle. I am pushing myself to get 1 more rep than the previous workout week to week or more weight being moved per set. I'm not playin around anymore.

Anyway, I've been eating like this:

Mon - 3000 Cals
Tues - 2200 Cals
Wed - 2200 Cals
Thurs - 3000 Cals
Fri - 2200 Cals
Sat* - ???? Cals
Sun* - ???? Cals

*I don't have an exact plan for Sat & Sun, but if I had to guess I'd say I am eating 2200 - 3000 on each day. Probably somewhere around 2600 Cals on avg.

Anyway, I am theorizing that on those days that I am in a deficit I am losing body fat since my body needs to pull energy from somewhere. I don't think it's using much muscle if any since I continue to get stronger. The days that I am in a surplus, the surplus is not that great, so there is not much of surplus to store the excess as fat since the muscles are in high demand for repair and in need of hypertrophy to move the heavier weights. Also, my protein is pretty high (~175 grams on higher days, and ~190 grams on lower days). Carbs are 250 grams on low days and 415 on higher days.

Basically, I think there is plenty of protein and carbs to have proper protein synthesis for new muscle growth and to keep my body from breaking down body proteins for energy. So, that means if my body needs energy besides from food it is using fat stores and muscle glycogen.

These are reasons that I think I may over time lose net fat and gain net muscle. So, I'm not "cutting" or "bulking", at least in their traditional senses I am not.

Also, it is early I am not sure what is taking place yet. I do have a pretty decent understanding of physiology at this point though, and I think in the past I understood losing fat and gaining muscle wrong. It was kind of like I thought that the body wouldn't lose fat unless it was in a 500 Calorie deficit. LOL, wrong! It's not like the body will only use body fat as energy if the daily Calories are set at a 500+ Caloric deficit. Also, I do not believe that the body will generate new muscle growth if only in a 250 - 500+ Caloric surplus per day. I do understand that there needs to be a surplus of Cals for growth, and that protein is critical. The exact #'s for this to take place, well, I'm not a biochemist. Same thing for fat loss. Clearly there needs to be a Caloric deficit for the body to resort to fat stores, glycogen and/or glucose, and/or body proteins to have an end result of decreased body mass. However, the body can do fat loss one day and gain muscle the next. Gaining and cutting do not need to be done in individually long cycles. Would cycling these two different processes be more optimal? Maybe. But, this comes back to the phenominon of the built, lean, natural guys we all see in the gym who have never bulked/cut/bulked/cut, etc. What the heck are these guys doing??? They're doin something right; that's for darn sure.

Maybe these guys start out 10% bf and just gain muscle over several years and stay 10% bf while ending up like 20-30 lbs of muscle heavier. I don't know. Maybe they start out 14% bf and gain muscle and lose fat slowly over several years and end up 8-10% bf with much more muscle.


Ok. So, I went ahead and typed out my thoughts. Sorry about all that.

Pete, to address your post more clearly...

I think you may have something there with the whole cardio thing. I think it would be highly beneficial to do weight training 4-6x per week (40-90 min sessions), cardio 3-7x per week (various intensities and durations as to not overtrain and train the CV system differently), and also perform stretching everyday. All of this with proper nutrition would produce a very very healthy person. But, you addressed the issue, "who's got time for all of that???" Not many people. So, we gotta pick and choose what we got time for and what our goals are.

Currently I am not doin any cardio, and I don't have the time to add it in. I could swap out a day of lifting to do cardio, but then my weight training goals would suffer. So, for now my CV system gets trained indirectly from my weight training. As for burning more Cals, well, I simply don't eat those Cals, so I don't need to burn em off.

So, yeah, I guess right now I am not actually cutting. I think you might be right in that it might be in my best interest to still try and gain muscle. I do want to get down to 8% bf again though by next summer, so I will likely cut sometime in the near future. I will probably wait until after the holidays to really go for a strict cutting cycle. Right now with school, new baby, holiday gatherings, and the desire to keep the strength gains comin I think I'll either lose some fat slowly or just wait. I'm curious to see if I can make some progress like many of the guys that have physiques that I aspire to have, and also if I can progress the way they have, i.e. no more of this bulking and cutting stuff. I say this, but I do want to have a certain bf%/look by this summer, so I am pretty certain I will have to "cut" to get where I want to be. We'll see.

Regarding little Kaylie, she is still cranky a lot, but she is starting to have more cute moments . She's already rolling over... she got this much quicker than Isaac. Isaac definitely likes her... he's kissed her a couple times. It's pretty cute. Sleep is getting a little better too. Still gettin woken up here and there, but most nights it's not that bad.

[kingor]

You make some very interesting a good points Joe, and by all means feel free to rant. It is good to get everything out of your system, and at times you can find the answers to the problems you face, in the spew of your thoughts. Bodybuilding is so dependent on so many factors that without the right forumla, you may not achieve the success of that of the person next to you.

At the same time, even if you followed the same formula that the person next to you does, it may not work for you. From observing the people whom I see gain LBM, I made the previous statements which I posted earlier. Precise nutrition, Precise Rest, Precise Trainning, and Precise Cardio all adds into the mix and the results become evident.

As you mentioned, perhaps there is a forum of all 4 that you can interlay into your own personal schedule to make it all work. The one person in particular I spoke with, trains for 4 days straight, and then does cardio for 3 days at about an hour a piece. That may not work out for your schedule, or perhaps it would. I don't know if the timing of when (what days) you do cardio on is that important, but rather that you do do it, in order to burn off the fat while packing on extra muscle from the calorie surplus.

Like you said, I think it is almost impossible to put a number on the amount of calories that go directly to fat/muscle, but perhaps (just my theory) you need to have an increased surplus of around 500 calories, since your body only takes a certain percentage of each calorie to form muscle and the rest is distributed to other areas such as fat. So, by properly overloading your body, you get the full affect of the surplus to grow your muscles, but you also pay a small price by gainning a little bit of fat, as you cannot control how much of the calories your body takes and transform into muscle. You only know that by taking in a large surplus of calories (500) you will gain muscle, and if you do not take in a surplus of around that number, than the effects of muscle gain will not be evident. Not sure if that makes any sense of not, it is kind of hard to type and put into words lol. Just imagine that for each calorie you intake, only a certain percentage of that calorie is allocated towards muscle and the rest goes to other areas including fat. In order to gain muscle however, you need to have a high amount of that calorie muscle percentage, which you cannot get unless you eat around 500 calories. If you eat less than that, you will not be able to achieve the high enough calorie muscle percentage that you need.

Inregards to cardio, someone told me what works really well too that is pretty time efficent is doing dumbbell lounges for 3 sets of about 20-30 reps. Perhaps you may want to try that.

We'll figure it out Joe! We are two bright individuals, and once we master it we will be golden.

Btw, its great to see that your son is getting along great with your daughter. Like I told you before, enjoy the times now, because before you know it they will be moving out on their own!

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by kingor

You make some very interesting a good points Joe, and by all means feel free to rant. It is good to get everything out of your system, and at times you can find the answers to the problems you face, in the spew of your thoughts. Bodybuilding is so dependent on so many factors that without the right forumla, you may not achieve the success of that of the person next to you.

At the same time, even if you followed the same formula that the person next to you does, it may not work for you. From observing the people whom I see gain LBM, I made the previous statements which I posted earlier. Precise nutrition, Precise Rest, Precise Trainning, and Precise Cardio all adds into the mix and the results become evident.

As you mentioned, perhaps there is a forum of all 4 that you can interlay into your own personal schedule to make it all work. The one person in particular I spoke with, trains for 4 days straight, and then does cardio for 3 days at about an hour a piece. That may not work out for your schedule, or perhaps it would. I don't know if the timing of when (what days) you do cardio on is that important, but rather that you do do it, in order to burn off the fat while packing on extra muscle from the calorie surplus.

That's a great idea to lift 4 days and do cardio the other 3. I currently seem to be getting good results from my 5 day routine, and don't have the time to train Sat & Sun. In time I'm sure I will end up doing the 4 weight days + 2-3 cardio days, or something similar. Just can't do it right now...

Like you said, I think it is almost impossible to put a number on the amount of calories that go directly to fat/muscle, but perhaps (just my theory) you need to have an increased surplus of around 500 calories, since your body only takes a certain percentage of each calorie to form muscle and the rest is distributed to other areas such as fat. So, by properly overloading your body, you get the full affect of the surplus to grow your muscles, but you also pay a small price by gainning a little bit of fat, as you cannot control how much of the calories your body takes and transform into muscle. You only know that by taking in a large surplus of calories (500) you will gain muscle, and if you do not take in a surplus of around that number, than the effects of muscle gain will not be evident. Not sure if that makes any sense of not, it is kind of hard to type and put into words lol. Just imagine that for each calorie you intake, only a certain percentage of that calorie is allocated towards muscle and the rest goes to other areas including fat. In order to gain muscle however, you need to have a high amount of that calorie muscle percentage, which you cannot get unless you eat around 500 calories. If you eat less than that, you will not be able to achieve the high enough calorie muscle percentage that you need.

See my theory is that once over the "newbie gains" period a 500 Calorie surplus is just asking for disaster. After "newbie gains" are made a natural body builder will put on ~2 lbs of muscle in 1 months time, and this would be great! Yeah, yeah, yeah, some guys might put on more, but in general 1-2 lbs of muscle gained per 4-5 weeks time is good and what is to be expected if training and nutrition are in order. So, if someone eats in a 500 Calorie surplus they are bound to put on 2-3 lbs of fat per month... this is 1 -1.5% bf. So, if someone wants to gain for 6 months they can expect to gain 6 - 9% bf or 12 - 18 lbs of body fat. A 12 - 18 week cut is no fun.

All that being said, your point is a good one. It is true that with a 500 Calorie surplus and with proper training the body will definitely have enough Calories to use for building new muscle. For me personally I have found that at my current stage in bodybuilding a 500 Calorie surplus is too much for me. The fat gains come on too quick that way.

Inregards to cardio, someone told me what works really well too that is pretty time efficent is doing dumbbell lounges for 3 sets of about 20-30 reps. Perhaps you may want to try that.

That is a great muscular endurance workout, and it will be sure to get the heart rate up

We'll figure it out Joe! We are two bright individuals, and once we master it we will be golden.

LOL, I have a feeling I will not be the one to figure it out

Btw, its great to see that your son is getting along great with your daughter. Like I told you before, enjoy the times now, because before you know it they will be moving out on their own!

At this point I can't even think like that. It saddens me to think of my little boy goin out on his own. I pray and hope so bad that he doesn't go through the "I hate my parents" stage!!!

Thanks for the help and all, Pete. My replies are above in "bold."

[smallguyjoe]

I got tested with actual calipers today, not my cheap ones, but standard calipers and with a Jackson Pollock 7 Site jawnzkie I'm 12.2% bf. Not bad, I suppose. Definitely not great, b/c I can see a sloppy midsection in the mirror .

Just a random update here, but I have been feeling GREAT in the gym recently, so I am very happy for that.

[smallguyjoe]

Week 1

-I ate 2200 Cals Tues, Wed, Fri
-I ate 3000 Cals Mon & Thurs
-Sat and Sun I couldn't tell ya how many Cals I ate, but not over 3000 per day
-I started 10 grams of creatine Mon - Fri
-I got stronger on every exercise than the previous week
-I lost no weight, nor did I gain any weight
-I lost, nor gained any body fat (according to Omron)
-My waist was 31.25" at a morning bw of 161.7 lbs

Week 2

-I ate the same diet as the previous week
-I got stronger on every exercise than the previous week
-I GAINED .6 lb on avg for this week
-I neither lost nor gained any body fat (according to Omron)

Week 3 (Up to Friday, since Week 3 is not fully completed yet)

-I added a slice of pecan pie to my diet Mon - Fri
-I got stronger for every exercise compared to the previous week
-By Fri I have gained on avg 1.5 lbs
-By Fri I have gained on avg .2% bf (13.6% to 13.8%)
-My waist is now a 31" at a morning bw of 164.0 lbs!
-According to the tape measure method I've lost BF and gained LBM


I just wanted to post this all up for the record. I am not positive that I am gaining muscle or that I've lost body fat. I am pretty confident that I've gained muscle though. Regarding body fat, I am pretty certain that I am at least maintaining. I think it is possible that I've lost a small amount though.

I'm gonna try to keep things moving in the right direction.

[kingor]

I'm sure we will figure out all out one day Joe! Bodybuilding is a game with many paths to choose.

I am tempted to buy ON Serious Mass again, to start making more gains. I don't think I am getting enough protein/calories in me each day. I cannot seem to get past 172-173lbs. When I took that stuff last year at this time I made some incredible progress with both strength and size. I was also eating a lot more too, but I think with the Serious Mass it will be cleaner weight. I dunu though we'll see. Have you ever taken any weight gainers before?

Btw, I finally have been able to get back into the gym this week and my gosh my body is sore ahah.

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by kingor

I'm sure we will figure out all out one day Joe! Bodybuilding is a game with many paths to choose.

I am tempted to buy ON Serious Mass again, to start making more gains. I don't think I am getting enough protein/calories in me each day. I cannot seem to get past 172-173lbs. When I took that stuff last year at this time I made some incredible progress with both strength and size. I was also eating a lot more too, but I think with the Serious Mass it will be cleaner weight. I dunu though we'll see. Have you ever taken any weight gainers before?

Btw, I finally have been able to get back into the gym this week and my gosh my body is sore ahah.

Hopefully

Go for it, man. I have never taken a weight gainer, and for me it's not hard at all to get enough Cals in. I have started taking some whey protein in each day b/c it's hard to get all the protein in. I only take 10-40 grams of whey though per day... 10 grams on days I am able to eat more chicken due to having a refrigerator and microwave handy, and then on days where I am busy and on the move I might have to take 2 full scoops of whey to meet protein needs. This is also on days where my carbs are lower, so protein needs to be higher.

Anyway, my point for you is that if you want to make it simple then just eat what you have been and add a weight gainer to the mix. That way you will surely be in a surplus if you've been maintaining your weight with your current diet. I wouldn't add any more than 500 Cals/day to your diet though.

Yep. I know the feeling. I started training chest only once per week again, and now after every Friday it gets soooo sore!

[cawiau]

Hang in there

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by cawiau

Hang in there

Thanks, Carl

You too, man

[smallguyjoe]

Here's a picture to go with my update above



Also, here's my current workout routine that I've really been liking

Mon - ARMS/TRAPS/ABS
Tues - LEGS/ABS
Wed - DELTS/ABS
Thurs - BACK/TRAPS/ABS
Fri - CHEST/CALVES/ABS

Here it is now w/ some more details...

Mon - Arms (9 sets tri's, 9 sets bi's) / Traps (8 sets) / Abs if I have time
Tues - Lower body (14-15 sets that use the Glutes, Hams, and/or Quads + 4 sets for AD/ABductors + 8 sets Calves) / Abs
Wed - Delts (9 sets of multi-joint exercises, 8 sets single-joint exercises) / Abs if I have time
Thurs - Back (12 sets) / Traps (6-8 sets) / Abs if I have time
Fri - Chest (9-10 sets) / Calves (8 sets) / Abs if they're not sore
Sat & Sun - OFF

*The total of sets above are only working sets. I do a few warm up sets - especially for my 1st exercise each workout.

[kingor]

I tell ya, you look broader Joe. Your arms/delts/forearms def grew man. Id say your weakest area (just giving constructive criticism) would be your traps. What kind of exercises have you been doing for them?

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by kingor

I tell ya, you look broader Joe. Your arms/delts/forearms def grew man. Id say your weakest area (just giving constructive criticism) would be your traps. What kind of exercises have you been doing for them?

Thanks, Pete

LOL! My traps! Yep, they are super weak. They were weak before my injury, but they were coming up. My injury set them back BIG TIME! Before I got hurt I would shrug 115 dbs for sets of 15, and I'd bb shrug 315 for sets of like 8 (I think). Anyway, it's been over 1 year since my injury and the heaviest bb shrug of I done was w/ 225 lbs . W/ dbs I do sets w/ the 100's (that's the highest dbs the YMCA's got).

I think they are gonna start to improve though now. I recently (3-4 weeks ago) started doing bent over bb rows again, and I've been doing them with a wide grip and more upright. Basically I'm shrugging the weight up and then finishing the pull motion with my lats and arms. I am doing upright rows to try and hit them. I am doing 3 sets of 100's (20 reps, 20 reps, and 15 reps - goal will be 4 sets of 20 reps... then I don't know what I'll do LOL).

I also am working on hitting the lower traps area w/ various rowing exercises, and I do these reverse cable flye / shoulder extension type things that really squeezes the lower/mid traps area.

Trust me. I would LOVE to improve my traps. I've always wanted bigger traps. I think it makes a physique look mean. I know mine make me appear weak, and it bothers me. I seriously couldn't do anything about it for a long time though b/c of my back. It was really frustrating, but there was no way my back could support holding/shrugging a lot of weight. Even now with lighter weight I can feel my back sometimes - mostly when doing bb shrugs.

[cawiau]

That is alot of abs bro
and yeah, you definitely added some good mass on your frame


*repped*

[kingor]

Ah damn 115 db shrugs! thats intense dude. I never really done db shrugs too much mostly just bb, but i did db shrugs the other day and was repping 90 for 12 reps, but i couldnt go higher since I didnt have my straps with me.

I was doing bb shrugs today and I was once able to do 365lbs last year at around this time, but somehow I seemed to have gone down a lot. My neck/upper back seems to pinch a little and it hurts, so I do not want to over do it. I think my neck is just very stiff, so I am trying to slowly build my way back up and do stretchs for my neck.

All in good time though, your obviously making gains back for shrugs tho if ur up to 220ish already.

Traps have always been a decent gain area for me, if only my chest and legs were the same...

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by cawiau

That is alot of abs bro
and yeah, you definitely added some good mass on your frame


*repped*

LOL, yeah, it sounds like a lot b/c I didn't specify... for abs I only do like 3-6 sets when I work them. I also only work them if I have time and they are not sore. Like today for example I did...

-20 reps on a swiss ball
-10 reps to the left on the ball
-10 reps to the right on the ball
-15 concentration "leg lowers" on the mat

I probably won't do any crunches or ab work tomorrow. If I do it'll be like 2 sets. So, really I don't do much... just higher frequency of training.


Thanks, Carl! It's awesome to hear that you can see progress!

Originally Posted by kingor

Ah damn 115 db shrugs! thats intense dude. I never really done db shrugs too much mostly just bb, but i did db shrugs the other day and was repping 90 for 12 reps, but i couldnt go higher since I didnt have my straps with me.

I was doing bb shrugs today and I was once able to do 365lbs last year at around this time, but somehow I seemed to have gone down a lot. My neck/upper back seems to pinch a little and it hurts, so I do not want to over do it. I think my neck is just very stiff, so I am trying to slowly build my way back up and do stretchs for my neck.

All in good time though, your obviously making gains back for shrugs tho if ur up to 220ish already.

Traps have always been a decent gain area for me, if only my chest and legs were the same...

Yeah, I feel it better with dumbbells, so I've mainly focused on shrugs with them. 365 lbs is heavy! Cool, man . Yep, you've gotta stay on top of lifts or else the strength will go down over time.

I watched this video last night where the guy suggested doing db shrugs with your shoulders set back, and then you shrug straight up. I did that today, and I went lighter. I think it might be a good way to hit the traps a bit differently. 75's felt good. I might try this approach for a while and see.

Be careful with that neck, mate

Yeah, if only we had no genetic weak parts

[smallguyjoe]

My estimated Caloric maintenance is 2700 - 3000 Cals.

Let's say it's 2700.

Then 3 days x 500 Cal deficit = 1500

2 days x 300 surplus = 600

1500 - 600 = 900

We will assume that Sat & Sun I eat maintenance, so my estimated deficit for the week is:

900 Calories

900 / 3500 = .25

So, each week, in theory, I should lose 1/4 lb of fat and/or LBM. Or, in other words after 4 weeks of consistency I should be 1 lb of fat/LBM less.


I "think" that if I keep my training intensity in a progressive state and my protein intake high I should not only maintain my LBM, but perhaps slowly increase it, while I lose only fat. Clearly I've been wrong in the past, so maybe I will end up being wrong again. I think I am on to something though.

[kingor]

Interesting about what you said about keeping your shoulders back. A guy at my gym told me the same thing the other day. He has bad shoulders and goes for physical thearopy and his trainner there told him to keep his shoulders back when he shrugs. It focuses on movement soley on the shoulder too. He said you'll notice that most bodybuilders slouch forward, because they are so use to lifting that way, and its true!

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by kingor

Interesting about what you said about keeping your shoulders back. A guy at my gym told me the same thing the other day. He has bad shoulders and goes for physical thearopy and his trainner there told him to keep his shoulders back when he shrugs. It focuses on movement soley on the shoulder too. He said you'll notice that most bodybuilders slouch forward, because they are so use to lifting that way, and its true!

I like doin shrugs my regular way b/c they get more sore, but I'll still try them the other way for a while since I needed to use less weight. I think w/ the shoulders back it hit more of the upper/mid traps area, whereas the way I usually do em hits right at the top.