Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses which is more bullsh!t?

[Large_Emu]

Mormonism was literally just made up by Joseph Smith and Jehovah's Witnesses are quite willing to let one of their children die if the child needs a blood transfusion to survive.

[TimDF]

Scientology.

[Large_Emu]

Originally Posted by TimDF

Scientology.

Damn, i forgot about that one.

[jackfast1]

almost without exception, the mormons on this site have been insightful, somewhat open minded, intelligent and polite.

the only jehovas witness that i am aware of is 'bulging-biceps'.

just sayin'...

[Large_Emu]

Originally Posted by jackfast1

almost without exception, the mormons on this site have been insightful, somewhat open minded, intelligent and polite.

the only jehovas witness that i am aware of is 'bulging-biceps'.

just sayin'...

I don't even understand how a Morman can be intelligent.

There is so many holes in it it's unbelievable.

although i knew a Jehover's Witness who was two years ahead of everyone else in his studying.

[jackfast1]

Originally Posted by Large_Emu

I don't even understand how a Morman can be intelligent.

There is so many holes in it it's unbelievable.

although i knew a Jehover's Witness who was two years ahead of everyone else in his studying.

indoctrination and compartmentalization.

[Large_Emu]

Originally Posted by jackfast1

indoctrination and compartmentalization.

Brainwashing ya rly, i'm thinking when i have kids i shoudl brainwash them into thinking that i'm God, i'm sure there would be many benefits.

[kobrien21]

Christianity

[ONtop888]

There will be hell to pay when MELKOR steps up in thus her thrad.

[Harbinger]

Originally Posted by jackfast1

almost without exception, the mormons on this site have been insightful, somewhat open minded, intelligent and polite.

the only jehovas witness that i am aware of is 'bulging-biceps'.

just sayin'...

this

[Alpha_Papa]

Emu, most religions ask for great sacrifices to follow the 'holy' life. None are morally/ethically above another, except in degree (based on individual judgments). There's also a lot of science to support that blood transfusions restore to 'normal levels' but doesn't actually help return someone to health faster. It's similar to cold medications that treat symptons rather than the cause or actual virus.


jackfast1, from the Christian perspective (I include all groups, because it should be the case) we are encouraged to be apart from the secular world and not too close to those who are not too close to God. Christian interests are in being good people on this Earth, helping even when help isn't asked. We are to shun materialism, pride and arrogance, and other forms of evil.

[Dummkopf]

Are you female? (srs)

[Large_Emu]

Originally Posted by Alpha_Papa

Emu, most religions ask for great sacrifices to follow the 'holy' life. None are morally/ethically above another, except in degree (based on individual judgments). There's also a lot of science to support that blood transfusions restore to 'normal levels' but doesn't actually help return someone to health faster. It's similar to cold medications that treat symptons rather than the cause or actual virus.


jackfast1, from the Christian perspective (I include all groups, because it should be the case) we are encouraged to be apart from the secular world and not too close to those who are not too close to God. Christian interests are in being good people on this Earth, helping even when help isn't asked. We are to shun materialism, pride and arrogance, and other forms of evil.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT IF A DOCTOR TOLD ME MY KID NEEDED A BLOOD TRANSFUSION I'D TAKE HIS ADVICE BECAUSE GUESS WHAT? HE KNOWS WHAT THE **** HE'S DOING BECAUSE HE BASES HIS ACTIONS ON FACT AND NOT FAITH.

Originally Posted by Dummkopf

Are you female? (srs)

No, just a very thin/short male.

[Alpha_Papa]

I'm not talking about faith. Try reading what I said again, and calm down.

































http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_GJkKMPHxw

[Saleenmuscle]

There both made-up obviously, but Mormonism seems the most far-fetched. They base their beliefs on believing one guys hallucinations.

[tts0lid]

Don't the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that only 100,000 people will go to "heaven"?

So what happens when all the spots are full? Do they start kicking people out to make room for someone "better" who might come along? Or is it just closed off and everyone goes to hell?

And if there's only 100,000 spots, why are they trying so hard to recruit competition for themselves?

[VTheKing]

The Mormons I've met and seen on this site are pretty cool people, whereas the Jehovah Witnesses are either really closed-minded or keep knocking on my door every month, trying to convert my mom. Go figure.

[Large_Emu]

Originally Posted by VTheKing

The Mormons I've met and seen on this site are pretty cool people, whereas the Jehovah Witnesses are either really closed-minded or keep knocking on my door every month, trying to convert my mom. Go figure.

But Jehover's witnesses are basing their beliefs on the bible like Christianity whereas mormanism is based on the lies of Joseph Smith.

[psamty]

Mormonism is the more illogical faith, but the Mormon community is much more cohesive and intelligent.

[An hero]

Originally Posted by Large_Emu

I don't even understand how a Morman can be intelligent.

[Penile_Dementia]

Originally Posted by psamty

Mormonism is the more illogical faith, but the Mormon community is much more cohesive and intelligent.

seriously, everyone seems to say this, and in my rather *ahem* limited experience of both in the middle of frickin' Ireland, ever mormon I've met (which can be counted on two hands, to be fair, towards my statistical observations) has been smart and absolutely LOVELY to speak to, and em... well... you know what I'm getting at. (for the record my experiences with JW's are not so much them knocking at my door as meeting and getting to know them them in social situations)

Why is this?

[VTheKing]

Originally Posted by Penile_Dementia

seriously, everyone seems to say this, and in my rather *ahem* limited experience of both in the middle of frickin' Ireland, ever mormon I've met (which can be counted on two hands, to be fair, towards my statistical observations) has been smart and absolutely LOVELY to speak to, and em... well... you know what I'm getting at. (for the record my experiences with JW's are not so much them knocking at my door as meeting and getting to know them them in social situations)

Why is this?

In before Melkor.

[Squinky]

Religion.

[Penile_Dementia]

Originally Posted by VTheKing

In before Melkor.

What is Melkor affiliated with? I must say he's a darn smart guy whichever way

[Bulging_Biceps]

Originally Posted by tts0lid

Don't the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that only 100,000 people will go to "heaven"?

So what happens when all the spots are full? Do they start kicking people out to make room for someone "better" who might come along? Or is it just closed off and everyone goes to hell?

And if there's only 100,000 spots, why are they trying so hard to recruit competition for themselves?

Theres only 144,000 people going to heaven.

The bible clearly states in Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 9:10:

Originally Posted by 9:5:

For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.

[quote=9:10:All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going. [/quote]

The bible clearly teaches that when you die, that you are dead. In 9:10, it refers to sheol. Simply put, Hades and Sheol are the common grave of mankind in which the scriptures say that nothing happens. When you are dead, you are no more alive than a piece of plastic or a clay jar.

Fiery hellfire is not a biblical teaching, in fact, you will find that Hellfire comes from Paganistic teachings that were incorporated into christianity when the christians went about "christianizing" the pagans when in effect the pagans paganized christianity.

To address the "lake of fire" referrences you will inevitably use to justify hellfire:

Originally Posted by Revelations 20:10:

And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Originally Posted by Revelations 21:8:

But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and fornicators and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death

Originally Posted by Matthew 5:29,30

If, now, that right eye of yours is making you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you. For it is more beneficial to you for one of your members to be lost to you than for your whole body to be pitched into Gehenna.*Also, if your right hand is making you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. For it is more beneficial to you for one of your members to be lost than for your whole body to land in Gehenna.

A historical background of Gehenna:

In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna. Thus, at Matthew 5:29, 30, Jesus spoke of the casting of one's "whole body" into Gehenna. If the body fell into the constantly burning fire it was consumed, but if it landed on a ledge of the deep ravine its putrefying flesh became infested with the ever-present worms, or maggots. Living humans were not pitched into Gehenna; so it was not a place of conscious torment.

At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to "be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ?fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.? By referring to the "soul" separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person?s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the 'fiery Gehenna' have the same meaning as 'the lake of fire' of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, "second death", or eternal death. Basically, this means that the use of the lake of fire and gehenna is used a way to describe somebody who is permanently dead, they have no chance of ever being brought back to life. It says Satan will be cast into the lake of fire, or gehenna which means that he will simply be dead for all time. He will not be tormented, he will be in a state of non-existance. To be dead for all time is a torment in itself and we know the fire and brimstone mentioned is not literal because Ecclesiastes 9:5 says that the dead know nothing at all and are conscious of nothing.

Anybody who is mentioned as being in the lake of fire, is simply permanently dead. They are not tormented, they are in a state of nonexistance to infinity.

This is critical to explain the state of the dead because you have to understand that to understand the 144,000.

Originally Posted by Revelation 14:1-3

And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps.*And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.

The 144,000 are simply, faithful people who have been specifically chosen to do whats written at Revelation 5:10

Originally Posted by Revelation 5:10

and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.?

Basically, the purpose of the 144,000 is to rule in heaven with christ.

Originally Posted by VTheKing

whereas the Jehovah Witnesses are either really closed-minded or keep knocking on my door every month, trying to convert my mom. Go figure.

It's a bible command at Matthew 28: 19,20 :

Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.

Our worldwide preaching work is critical because people's lives are at stake. It is our duty to warn people of the coming destruction of this system so we can save as many people as possible. It's only fair and just that god warn people of what is about to take place so it gives people a chance to repent and survive.

[Saleenmuscle]

Originally Posted by Bulging_Biceps

It's a bible command at Matthew 28: 19,20 :

Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.

Very Vague passage, which can be interpreted in many different ways.

Originally Posted by Bulging_Biceps

Our worldwide preaching work is critical because people's lives are at stake. It is our duty to warn people of the coming destruction of this system so we can save as many people as possible. It's only fair and just that god warn people of what is about to take place so it gives people a chance to repent and survive.

Logical fallacy- Argumentum ad baculum (Latin for argument to the cudgel or appeal to the stick), also known as appeal to force, is an argument where force, coercion, or the threat of force, is given as a justification for a conclusion. It is a specific case of the negative form of an argument to the consequences.

[Barackodrama]

Originally Posted by Large_Emu

Mormonism was literally just made up by Joseph Smith and Jehovah's Witnesses are quite willing to let one of their children die if the child needs a blood transfusion to survive.

Mormans have some hawt ass bitches.... boom!! protien everywhere!!!!

[ONtop888]

Originally Posted by Bulging_Biceps

Theres only 144,000 people going to heaven.

The bible clearly states in Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 9:10:

Q: The Jehovah's Witnesses stress the 144,000. What 's the real scoop on this number?
A: The 144,000 people described in two passages of the Bible: Revelation 7:1-8 and 14:1-5. According to the first passage, they are "the servants of . . . God" (7:3) who are pictured as being sealed upon their foreheads. Verses 4-8 depict there being twelve thousand sealed from each of the twelve tribes of Israel, giving a total of 144,000.

In Revelation 14:1 we are told that the seal on their foreheads is Christ's and his Father's name. The 144,000 are with Jesus, and they sing a unique song of worship, which no one else can learn (14:3). In 14:4-5 we are told more about their identity: "It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste [Greek, "virgins"]; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; these have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are spotless."

The Witnesses say these people represent the Church of Christ, the Israel of God, and this is a common view among Bible scholars, one that has had a long history in the interpretation of Revelation. The 144,000 are taken as a symbol of the Christian faithful. It is what Witnesses say next that is bizarre.

Supposedly God began collecting the 144,000 at Pentecost in AD. 33 but stopped collecting them in 1935, when the full number was reached. Some of the 144,000 are still living, and they are all Jehovah's Witnesses. As of 1986 there were only about 9,000 of the 144,000 left alive. Since the Jehovah's Witnesses are a larger group, possessing several million members, how are the rest of the Witnesses regarded? As non-members of the body of Christ. They will still be saved in the end, but they will not be part of the body and will not go to heaven. They are considered part of the "great crowd" mentioned in Revelation 7:9-10.

In Jehovah's Witness "kingdom halls" (church buildings) only members of the 144,000 are allowed to receive communion when the Lord's Supper is celebrated (which is done infrequently). Sometimes kingdom halls celebrate the Lord's Supper and no one receives communion since none of the 144,000 are present.

Needless to say, the Witness's view is riddled with holes. When discussing the 144,000 with Witnesses, make them realize that they are being inconsistent in how they interpret the texts where the 144,000 are mentioned. They insist that there are exactly 144,000 of these people, no more and no less, making it a literal number, but they interpret every other detail about this group in a symbolic manner.

[b]The only detail from the text that the Witnesses take literally is the number. Every other detail of the text is taken non-literally. They should either take all of the details literally or see the 144,000 as a symbol of the Church as a whole (as does virtually everyone else, Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, etc.)

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=72274



So, are not all of the JW's going to heaven if only 144,000 are going?

[Bulging_Biceps]

Originally Posted by Saleenmuscle

Very Vague passage, which can be interpreted in many different ways.




Logical fallacy- Argumentum ad baculum (Latin for argument to the cudgel or appeal to the stick), also known as appeal to force, is an argument where force, coercion, or the threat of force, is given as a justification for a conclusion. It is a specific case of the negative form of an argument to the consequences.

Your fallacy insists that I'm making an arguement and I'm not. I'm explaining why we preach to people. It's because it's a commandment that has been given to us.

Originally Posted by ONtop888

So, are not all of the JW's going to heaven if only 144,000 are going?

Like I already explained, when you are dead, you are dead and only 144,000 people go to heaven like I explained. However, in my explanations in my previous post, I mentioned a resurrection. (There is so much to explain, It's hard for me to put into words, everything builds on top of each other and so I have to explain seemingly unrelated topics for the main topic to make sense.)

The reason we preach from door to door like I mentioned is because it's a bible commandment and because we are trying to save lives because soon every nation on earth and all unrighteous ones will be exterminated at the battle of Armageddon. In fact, the extermination of the wicked will be so great that at Revelation 19: 17,18

Originally Posted by Revelation 19: 17,18

I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: "Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, that YOU may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great."

Basically, the scripture says that once armageddon is over, there will be so many dead bodies, Jehovah will have birds and animals feast on the dead bodies so as to dispose of them, but I digress.

Back to point, Once armageddon is over with, we enter the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ in which the earth will be transformed back into a paradise, humankind will be raised to perfection, and the dead will be ressurected.

Since most of the Bible book of Revelation was written in symbolic language, a question arises. What about the Thousand Year Reign of Christ mentioned in Revelation? Is it a literal or a symbolic period?

There is every indication that a literal thousand-year period is meant. Consider: The apostle Paul refers to the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, during which mankind is judged, as a day. (Acts 17:31; Revelation 20:4)

Originally Posted by Acts 17:31

Because he has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has furnished a guarantee to all men in that he has resurrected him from the dead

Originally Posted by Revelation 20:4

And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years.

The apostle Peter wrote that one day (24 hours) with Jehovah is as a thousand years. (2 Peter 3:8)

Originally Posted by 2 Peter 3:8

However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

That would argue that this judgment "day" is literally one thousand years long. In addition, at Revelation 20:3, 5-7, we read four different times, not of ?a thousand years," but of "the thousand years." This would seem to indicate a period of definite length.

Originally Posted by Revelation 20:3

And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.

Originally Posted by Revelation 20:5-7

The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years. *Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison

Now that I have explained what is in store for the future, to answer the question at hand. At Revelation 7:9

John 5: 28, 29 mentions that there will be a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous

Originally Posted by John 5:28, 29

Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice*and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

In Jesus' Thousand year reign, the dead will be brought back to life. Note that it mentions the righteous and unrighteous. The unrighteous would include those who didnt have a chance to learn about Jehovah such as the many millions throughout the middle ages, Dark ages, and even up to those today who have already died who didnt get a chance to learn about Jehovah. They will be resurrected and given a chance to learn about Jehovah and to accept his rulership.

Originally Posted by Revelation 7:9

After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.

The great crowd are humans that will live in paradise on earth. If you are not part of the 144,000 that are going to be living in heaven. Then you are part of the great crowd that is going to have the chance to live forever on a paradise earth as a perfect human. When Jesus was dying, he told the criminal next to him at Luke 23: 42, 43

Originally Posted by Luke 23: 42, 43

And he went on to say: "Jesus, remember me when you get into your kingdom." And he said to him: "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise."

Jesus told the criminal next to him "You will be with me in paradise. Notice that he didnt say "You will be with me in Heaven"

[shadowwalker021]

why is it 144,000? why not 144,007?


and i know a jehova's witness, she seems pretty nice.