Jim Cordova VS Natural Mr.Olympia - Page 18

douggiefresh21 · 10-29-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slim DaDDy

Yes, thats the point I was making when I said the limit.

Yea, but that point is irrelevant being that Cordova is nowhere near the size of Coleman. How could you even base an argument off of that. If you can't attain a physique like Cordova's naturally after all the time he has been training and having as good of genetics as he did then you aren't training to the limit. These guys push themselves harder than most. That is why they look the way they do. Look up Brian Witticher he is another nattie with a ridiculous attainable physique.

ZMCDOLE you have an impressive physique and I could see how you could say that by the time you reached your prime you could look like Cordova. I think you could if you kept training hard, eating and dieting right, and also used proper supplementation. It boggles my mind that so many think these bodies are unattainable without the use of drugs.

Big Slim DaDDy · 10-29-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarateChris

Actually, the guy I'm speaking of won the overall at a big state show back in the 90's and went on to compete in the Junior USAs and USAs. He got 3rd in the bantams in one of the junior USAs back in the 90's. He looked amazing, but was fairly short.

I didn't mean to discredit them just that for all the work any bodybuilder puts in and to take what the top guys take and not be at their level must be FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

Big Slim DaDDy · 10-29-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douggiefresh21

Yea, but that point is irrelevant being that Cordova is nowhere near the size of Coleman. How could you even base an argument off of that. If you can't attain a physique like Cordova's naturally after all the time he has been training and having as good of genetics as he did then you aren't training to the limit. These guys push themselves harder than most. That is why they look the way they do. Look up Brian Witticher he is another nattie with a ridiculous attainable physique.

It boggles my mind that so many think these bodies are unattainable without the use of drugs.

So someone has to be the size of Coleman?

Your rationalizing just like everyone else is "If this and this and he does this and he's doing this for this long and he's not as big as this guy and he works hard and personally I believe this because in my experience this and why would this happen and this this this..therefore I am right."

The reason people question whether it is attainable is because of the COUNTLESS people who bust their asses for years upon years and get nowhere near that level. I'm talking about people that put in serious work. That is why people yes rationalize said person must be using gear the same way you rationalize that you "think" they aren't.

To claim to "know" what someone else does or doesn't do with their body is ridiculous.

fltallpaul · 10-29-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douggiefresh21

Yea, but that point is irrelevant being that Cordova is nowhere near the size of Coleman. How could you even base an argument off of that. If you can't attain a physique like Cordova's naturally after all the time he has been training and having as good of genetics as he did then you aren't training to the limit. These guys push themselves harder than most. That is why they look the way they do. Look up Brian Witticher he is another nattie with a ridiculous attainable physique.

ZMCDOLE you have an impressive physique and I could see how you could say that by the time you reached your prime you could look like Cordova. I think you could if you kept training hard, eating and dieting right, and also used proper supplementation. It boggles my mind that so many think these bodies are unattainable without the use of drugs.

see this post, I already posted a picture or Brian..

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...&postcount=447

NextBlGThing · 10-29-2009, 03:50 PM

I think if I stayed natural for 5 more years by the time I'm 30 I would be 260 pounds at around 6-10 % bodyfat and step on stage at 230 shredded but I don't think ill stay natural to find out...too much money to be made the other route

Big Slim DaDDy · 10-29-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NextBlGThing

I think if I stayed natural for 5 more years by the time I'm 30 I would be 260 pounds at around 6-10 % bodyfat and step on stage at 230 shredded but I don't think ill stay natural to find out...too much money to be made the other route

You'd step on stage weighing as much as Phil Heath at close to the same height and you're natural?

NextBlGThing · 10-29-2009, 04:07 PM

I thought phil was only 5'9? If so that's 3 inch diff that's good for atleast 25 pounds

KarateChris · 10-29-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slim DaDDy

You'd step on stage weighing as much as Phil Heath at close to the same height and you're natural?

He has a high sense of self worth especially for someone who's never competed...
No hate.

Big Slim DaDDy · 10-29-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NextBlGThing

I thought phil was only 5'9? If so that's 3 inch diff that's good for atleast 25 pounds

It would still be the same amount of muscular weight.

NextBlGThing · 10-29-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarateChris

He has a high sense of self worth especially for someone who's never competed...
No hate.

Just estimates that's all, but like I said I doubt ill stay natural to find out, especially when it comes to making money

Big Slim DaDDy · 10-29-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NextBlGThing

Just estimates that's all, but like I said I doubt ill stay natural to find out, especially when it comes to making money

What is stopping you at this point from getting on the sauce?

NextBlGThing · 10-29-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slim DaDDy

It would still be the same amount of muscular weight.

But on a taller frame?? I'd think dennis wolf would be a more accurate frame for me to target ofcourse I won't be natural at that point

NextBlGThing · 10-29-2009, 04:24 PM

Been diggin myself out of financial debt for a while no money for that stuff, and I'm a anti drug kind of person, but I know to make money doing this now you have to use so I will eventually

Grinners · 10-29-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NextBlGThing

I think if I stayed natural for 5 more years by the time I'm 30 I would be 260 pounds at around 6-10 % bodyfat and step on stage at 230 shredded but I don't think ill stay natural to find out...too much money to be made the other route

What do you weigh in your pics? And you know you're nowhere near 6% in your avatar right?

NextBlGThing · 10-29-2009, 04:33 PM

I fluctuate around 5 pounds because of my metabolism but in them I think I was right at 227

Quelly · 10-29-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NextBlGThing

I fluctuate around 5 pounds because of my metabolism but in them I think I was right at 227

I remember when I was 220 and I thought I'd be on stage at 200....then I cut down to 194 and I was like 12% bodyfat lol

its a shock the first time you partake in a big cut...and even more of a shock when you get down to 3-5%, you realize just how much you were off in your bodyfat estimation, and just how much fat you are holding and have to lose to get in shredded condition

Grinners · 10-29-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NextBlGThing

I fluctuate around 5 pounds because of my metabolism but in them I think I was right at 227

My only advice would be, you never know how your body will react to steroids, you might shoot up in weight or you might not, but once you've used, you've used. I assume you've already thought about competing in a natural comp before its too late?

Grinners · 10-29-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quelly

I remember when I was 220 and I thought I'd be on stage at 200....then I cut down to 194 and I was like 12% bodyfat lol

its a shock the first time you partake in a big cut...and even more of a shock when you get down to 3-5%, you realize just how much you were off in your bodyfat estimation, and just how much fat you are holding and have to lose to get in shredded condition

Is it that you were holding more fat than you thought, or that as a natural you lose a fair bit of muscle on the descent?

KarateChris · 10-29-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NextBlGThing

Just estimates that's all, but like I said I doubt ill stay natural to find out, especially when it comes to making money

Oh I understand, but one thing to keep in mind is that you will always weigh less than you think you will to get shredded. Having a number in mind isn't really a good idea if you've never contest dieted before since you don't know how your body will react or how low you really have to go to get shredded. With that said, good luck.

KarateChris · 10-29-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quelly

I remember when I was 220 and I thought I'd be on stage at 200....then I cut down to 194 and I was like 12% bodyfat lol

its a shock the first time you partake in a big cut...and even more of a shock when you get down to 3-5%, you realize just how much you were off in your bodyfat estimation, and just how much fat you are holding and have to lose to get in shredded condition

^^^ This is what I was trying to say lol

Loochi · 10-29-2009, 04:52 PM

Exactly what Quelly just said man. Alot of people assume their body fat is lower than what it is and that they will only need to lose a few pounds to get to the very low single digits.

morderstwo · 10-29-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loochi

Exactly what Quelly just said man. Alot of people assume their body fat is lower than what it is and that they will only need to lose a few pounds to get to the very low single digits.

its not so much bad estimation of bf%, its more a case of the body simply losing a lot of muscle when it goes low single digits for naturals.

Quelly · 10-29-2009, 05:18 PM

you do lose some muscle prepping, but its really not as much as people think, if they do it right....for first timers getting in contest condition...the huge weight loss is normally just an underestimate of their bodyfat to start.

NextBlGThing · 10-29-2009, 05:26 PM

"My only advice would be, you never know how your body will react to steroids, you might shoot up in weight or you might not, but once you've used, you've used. I assume you've already thought about competing in a natural comp before its too late?"

I am eyeing a show in march if I'm my finances get better over the holidays right now working about 60 hours a week.

Btw I was measured at 6% by a pt at my golds it was before I took a few pics including avatar, didn't take many csuse I'm pretty hairy right now

graffalanamous · 10-29-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quelly

you do lose some muscle prepping, but its really not as much as people think, if they do it right....for first timers getting in contest condition...the huge weight loss is normally just an underestimate of their bodyfat to start.

I agree here. I used to think (when I was over 300lbs) that I would be shredded at about 240. Not even close and I still wasn't shredded at 214. I see talk to alot of people who think they'd be shredded if they lost 20lbs and now, from my experience I step back and realize they would really have to drop more like 30-40lbs. I also noticed (and I'm new to all this dieting and cutting stuff) that I lose alot of strength when I'm cutting, but it's not necessarily due to a loss in muscle mass. Alot of it for me is a lack of CHO, where I don't have the energy to move heavier weights. A week or two after I'm done cutting my strength comes back, with very little gain in bodyweight ( just a few pounds). II guess just starting to get enough calories to train heavy again is enough to improve my strength. I think alot of people fail when they are cutting because they get scared when their strength numbers go down and feel like they have to bulk again. There are a group of guys at one of the gyms I train at that are always prepping for a show, before backing out because they are "loosing too much muscle".

Quelly · 10-29-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graffalanamous

I agree here. I used to think (when I was over 300lbs) that I would be shredded at about 240. Not even close and I still wasn't shredded at 214. I see talk to alot of people who think they'd be shredded if they lost 20lbs and now, from my experience I step back and realize they would really have to drop more like 30-40lbs. I also noticed (and I'm new to all this dieting and cutting stuff) that I lose alot of strength when I'm cutting, but it's not necessarily due to a loss in muscle mass. Alot of it for me is a lack of CHO, where I don't have the energy to move heavier weights. A week or two after I'm done cutting my strength comes back, with very little gain in bodyweight ( just a few pounds). II guess just starting to get enough calories to train heavy again is enough to improve my strength. I think alot of people fail when they are cutting because they get scared when their strength numbers go down and feel like they have to bulk again. There are a group of guys at one of the gyms I train at that are always prepping for a show, before backing out because they are "loosing too much muscle".

This is EXTREMELY common...I mean think about how many guys with body dysmorphia get into bbing, and then when they start getting smaller, or feel a little weak or drop a bit in strength...they freak out lol

zmcdole · 10-29-2009, 06:20 PM

Bodyweight in regards to bodybuilding in my mind is over rated. Sure I would love to step on stage for my next show 2-4lbs heavier and even leaner. However, I wanna look my absolute best and if that means being lighter than what I wanted to be then so be it. My 1st show i was 180. My second I got all the way down to 174 and still could have been leaner. If you shoot for a certain weight then you're selling yourself short. You should always be shooting for a look and let the other stuff take care of itself.

Big Slim DaDDy · 10-29-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NextBlGThing

"My only advice would be, you never know how your body will react to steroids, you might shoot up in weight or you might not, but once you've used, you've used. I assume you've already thought about competing in a natural comp before its too late?"

I am eyeing a show in march if I'm my finances get better over the holidays right now working about 60 hours a week.

Btw I was measured at 6% by a pt at my golds it was before I took a few pics including avatar, didn't take many csuse I'm pretty hairy right now

A lot of guys compete at 5%. Do you think you're 1% above competition leanness?

Quelly · 10-29-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zmcdole

Bodyweight in regards to bodybuilding in my mind is over rated. Sure I would love to step on stage for my next show 2-4lbs heavier and even leaner. However, I wanna look my absolute best and if that means being lighter than what I wanted to be then so be it. My 1st show i was 180. My second I got all the way down to 174 and still could have been leaner. If you shoot for a certain weight then you're selling yourself short. You should always be shooting for a look and let the other stuff take care of itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slim DaDDy

A lot of guys compete at 5%. Do you think you're 1% above competition leanness?

just like weight, body fat percentage is pointless when it truly comes to getting shredded...the judges don't caliper you, or weigh you...

forget what body fat percentage or weight you think you are or should be...the only weight you need to worry about is the one that you end up being when you have lines in your ass

graffalanamous · 10-29-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quelly

This is EXTREMELY common...I mean think about how many guys with body dysmorphia get into bbing, and then when they start getting smaller, or feel a little weak or drop a bit in strength...they freak out lol

Yep. As a strength athlete who always wanted to get lean, this is exactly what kept me from ever making it over the last 12 years (and of course I've tried- what young male hasn't dreamed of being lean for spring break at the beach!) Everybody wants a beach body, but most people can't make the sacrifices. I know I wasn't able to until now.