CTers, I got the H1N1 vaccine, the one with the LIVE SWINE FLU

[Galvatorex]

Originally Posted by MrGuitar

Got the flu mist nasal vaccine. The one with the live but weak strain. CTers, why am I still alive? Shouldnt I be dead by now?

Never said that at all, i dunno bout the nasal but if you had the shot id watch for gillian barre or other problems down the road

[Melkor]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....gi?u=swine_flu

Awesome article.

[(Seriously)]

http://vactruth.com/2009/07/21/dr-an...bout-vaccines/

Awesome article.

[Mike-anon]

Originally Posted by Stizzel

I don't know why you're bringing up autism. I havn't looked into autism a whole lot because my son is not autistic so I don't especially care. I do know for sure it has negative helath effects, not the least of which being a decline in IQ as well as the early onset of degenerative diseases like alzheimers. Ever heard of a 20 year old with alzheimers?

I'm just tired of people bringing up this BS again about thermisol being removed. First you'll claim thermisol is banned. Then you'll say okay, its not banned, but its not given to kids. Sorry, that is BS too. The CDC can get away with misleading people into believing that because they know most of the public is too dumb to ask whats being injected into their kids' blood stream. "responsible parent" my ass.

So if you want to disprove a link between thermisol and autism, you might want to find an argument thats actually based in reality. I'm sure there are some good ones out there.

Ah sorry, I must have misinterpreted what you were writing. Generally when the topic of mercury in vaccines comes up, it's the autism "scare" that is implied. So ignore that part.

As per the thermisol being removed - CDC is claiming that under "advice" from governing agencies they urge it to be removed, but this is a result of public (and might I add, scientifically unfounded) pressure. They [CDC] don't actually care because there is no clear link in health detriments to the minute mercury in the thermisol. (Unless there is some other danger to it that I'm unaware of?).

I therefore don't understand your third paragraph, because there AREN'T valid studies linking the two.

Might I ask then - if autism isn't your largest concern, what's your main concern with thermisol?

Originally Posted by stracin

Autism rates appeared to rise only b/c they started an autism registry at the same time. This meant that previously undocumented cases of autism were being accounted after the thimerosol was removed which made it look as though cases were skyrocketing once it was taken out.

However, even the shots "without" thimerosol still contained mercury as they remove it after the fact leaving trace amounts still above what's considered toxic to our bodies.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that thanks. My question still remains though about asking for valid studies about the effects of a vaccine dosage of mercury on development, health, etc.

Also, weighing in the pros and cons of vaccines here.

Originally Posted by (Seriously)

http://vactruth.com/2009/07/21/dr-an...bout-vaccines/

Awesome article.

I was skimming that and came across this gem:

17.) Do you believe that vaccinations have eradicated epidemic diseases?

No, not at all.

It makes it much harder for me to take him seriously. Granted, he has points following that statement, but to imply that vaccinations have not played an EXTRAORDINARY role in removing these diseases is asinine.

[(Seriously)]

Originally Posted by Mike-anon

I was skimming that and came across this gem:

17.) Do you believe that vaccinations have eradicated epidemic diseases?

No, not at all.

It makes it much harder for me to take him seriously. Granted, he has points following that statement, but to imply that vaccinations have not played an EXTRAORDINARY role in removing these diseases is asinine.

Well since you want to misquote him, i'll quote the whole thing and his explanation for you:

No, not at all. All we have done is translated “forest fires” for 1% of the population into chronic and acute “brush fires” for the entire population. Sanitation, nutrition, potable water, proper nutrition and hydration was eradicating epidemic disease. Virulent pathogens can be handles – we simply needed to control the “MASS” response in human physiology along with the electrostatics of blood flow. In this regard, there would have been no infantile paralysis or respiratory failure from wild polio, or death from Spanish flu, or H1N1 for that matter. We can handle the germs – all of them, we simply need to control the magnitude and nature of the immune system response to these virulent pathogens. The same pathological sequence has to be controlled, in human physiology, on an as-needed basis, irrespective of the pathogenic strain or virulence.

Polio is now known as aseptic meningitis and a bunch of other names. It never went away. Then again, it was never polio, the virus, that was causing the paralysis and disease – these were ischemic strokes from “M.A.S.S.” All other pathological states flow from this generic common first step to disease.

If you want to read what he is saying literally, then I suppose he did say "No, not at all." I think what he is suggesting is that the vaccines themselves have created their own epidemics. As he's stated, "we can handle the germs - all of them, we simply need to control the magnitude and nature of the immune system response to these virulent pathogens."

You're right, the vaccines did stop a lot of the diseases in this world, but what have they created as a byproduct? According to this guy and his research, more epidemics. How can something eradicate epidemic diseases while it's creating them at the same time?

[Stizzel]

Originally Posted by Mike-anon

Ah sorry, I must have misinterpreted what you were writing. Generally when the topic of mercury in vaccines comes up, it's the autism "scare" that is implied. So ignore that part.

As per the thermisol being removed - CDC is claiming that under "advice" from governing agencies they urge it to be removed, but this is a result of public (and might I add, scientifically unfounded) pressure. They [CDC] don't actually care because there is no clear link in health detriments to the minute mercury in the thermisol. (Unless there is some other danger to it that I'm unaware of?).

I'm still not convinced that its not at least having an effect on autism rates. I just don't have any proof of it. My concern with thermisol is the same as my concern with fluoride, MSG, high fructose corn syrupt, etc....they are very, very bad for you. The big difference with thimerisol is that no one forces you to inject your newborn baby's bloodstream with MSG, fluoride, etc. IMO whether or not you think mercury is okay for kids should be moot, people definatly shouldn't be forced.

Originally Posted by Mike-anon

It makes it much harder for me to take him seriously. Granted, he has points following that statement, but to imply that vaccinations have not played an EXTRAORDINARY role in removing these diseases is asinine.

Which society do you think would be healthier - one with first world sanitation but no vaccines, or a country with third world sanitation but any vaccine you could possibly ask for?

[Mike-anon]

Originally Posted by (Seriously)

Well since you want to misquote him, i'll quote the whole thing and his explanation for you:

If you want to read what he is saying literally, then I suppose he did say "No, not at all." I think what he is suggesting is that the vaccines themselves have created their own epidemics. As he's stated, "we can handle the germs - all of them, we simply need to control the magnitude and nature of the immune system response to these virulent pathogens."

You're right, the vaccines did stop a lot of the diseases in this world, but what have they created as a byproduct? According to this guy and his research, more epidemics. How can something eradicate epidemic diseases while it's creating them at the same time?

I didn't misquote him as I clearly indicated I read his following points.

They might have created a byproduct, but again, pros vs cons. The cons are very limited, and aside from what this one guy is saying are there any other peer-reviewed studies that back what he's saying?

"we can handle the germs - all of them, we simply need to control the magnitude and nature of the immune system response to these virulent pathogens."

Our immune response isn't always the problem. Granted, from first hand experience our immune system is a problem with certain pathogens that illicit allergic reactions, for example. But polio isn't an immune system issue, it's a viral issue. The vaccine is what in a sense "controls the magnitude and nature" of the system

Originally Posted by Stizzel

I'm still not convinced that its not at least having an effect on autism rates. I just don't have any proof of it. My concern with thermisol is the same as my concern with fluoride, MSG, high fructose corn syrupt, etc....they are very, very bad for you. The big difference with thimerisol is that no one forces you to inject your newborn baby's bloodstream with MSG, fluoride, etc. IMO whether or not you think mercury is okay for kids should be moot, people definatly shouldn't be forced.

Which society do you think would be healthier - one with first world sanitation but no vaccines, or a country with third world sanitation but any vaccine you could possibly ask for?

To your first point. Regarding autism rates, while you don't have proof that it ISN'T increasing autism rates, I don't have any proof that it IS. And since there isn't any actual current evidence (or consensus) that points that it is, arguing from the stance that it might be is invalid in my mind (I wonder why I'm Atheist, eh?). I can't disprove something that doesn't exist.

That being said, if you've stumbled across anything interesting in your own time, let me know. I generally look for links and stuff to science sites, rather than sites devoted to bashing/promoting things.

To your last point, I honestly don't know, but I feel like it's an apples to oranges statement. In my mind, a healthy society would have access to both. While a society with 1st world sanitation would limit the spread of pathogens, it would not eliminate it. Look to North America (which I assume we'll agree has mostly "1st world" sanitation). We do a crappy job of protecting ourselves from colds, flus, and general sicknesses. Someone with kids (or...yourself ) can tell you that their kids make them sick all the time bringing things back from school. And that one ******* that just has to come into work and cough on you, etc.

Now imagine it's a highly deadly virus...

I'd rather have the vaccine along with the sanitation. We don't live in bubbles.

Now, in your situation, I *sort* of agree. I respect where you're coming from in the sense that you are looking out for your child(ren)'s best interests, and only want the best. The issue arises when the public hear unfounded horror stories, myths, rumors, mass media bull, etc. and lose sense of proportion, and subject their children to something dumb because they believe in that.

Living in Canada, it would piss me off greatly if we made it so meningitis (insert vaccine for a disease that could still affect us) vaccines were optional and I had to pay for the *******s health care if they got sick.

To make a long winded post shorter: I don't know. But current scientific evidence does not show such a large correlation between vaccines and serious issues vs the benefits of receiving one, and I therefore support them..

Just my 2 cents.

[...Rousseau...]

Originally Posted by Melkor

My kid was diagnosed by a doctor, I have the same symptoms as him. He had the piggy flu test on Thursday, I came down with it Friday. Yesterday was pretty uncomfortable, but today it's not too bad.

how quickly did you get it after his symptoms first appeared?

[Melkor]

Originally Posted by ...Rousseau...

how quickly did you get it after his symptoms first appeared?

I'm not sure, within a couple of days I think. I think I might have got it from the same person he did. I think he got it from my niece.

Why?

[reyalp]

why in the hell are healthy people getting the h1n1 vaccine?