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  1. #4381
    Beer and Ice Cream spak's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by th3pwn3r View Post
    Don't lie to me Wave! There's a problem and it involved me getting fat because of a straight switch from cut to bulk WITHOUT being careful about it. The reason couldn't be because I was simply eating too much right? Mmmmmm Ferrero Rocher chocolates
    Yea the same thing happened to me in september, i gained alot of weight even though i was doing a low carb bulk. But now i think i am almost back to where i was+ water weight, i woke up a hair under 188 this morning, plus i took creatine all week. So i am pretty satisifed so far, and i should be able to cut weight fairly efficiently. I am looking pretty good in the mirror, so i am going to continue what i have been doing. I also think i am good and adapted back into buring carbs cuz its been 3 weeks, i ate a large amount of pizza yesterday and still woke up at a loss for the week, but of course i was pretty low on cals for the day as it was again lol.
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  2. #4382
    Beer and Ice Cream spak's Avatar
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    i finally found diet ruby splash sierra mist in a 12 pack cans this week, kinda disappointed cuz the cranberry splash is loaded with cranberry flavor and this just tastes like sierra mist with a little grapefruit in it, i wish they put more in there and tried to make it lean more towards fresca taste or something.
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  3. #4383
    Registered User wetheleaders's Avatar
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    just wondering, if i ate the exact same food and quantity as wave would i eventually over time have a similar body as wave

    basically just wondering if you eat at your target body composition's intake and use that as a guide

  4. #4384
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    Originally Posted by wetheleaders View Post
    just wondering, if i ate the exact same food and quantity as wave would i eventually over time have a similar body as wave

    basically just wondering if you eat at your target body composition's intake and use that as a guide
    Depends on your genetics (wave claims to have ****ty genetics ), height, activity level, ...
    Everybody's different, you have to find out yourself!

  5. #4385
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    Originally Posted by hankst View Post
    Depends on your genetics (wave claims to have ****ty genetics ), height, activity level, ...
    Everybody's different, you have to find out yourself!
    Well look at me, I'm either a walking stick or a fatso!





    And I agree with the above, but one thing I can guarantee: if you follow the rules, you will get in shape.
    PLEASE DON'T REP ME, REP THE GUYS IN THE "HOW TO LOSE FAT FOR NOOBS" THREAD INSTEAD
    How to lose fat for Noobs: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129247741
    Bodybuilding Guide: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=553453753#post553453753

  6. #4386
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    Originally Posted by hankst View Post
    Yeah well it's not that they would be wasted completely, that came out wrong. Those 2 months still contain 1 month of cutting at a 900 kcal deficite and 1 month of bulking at a 500 kcal surplus. Even if the experiment as such fails (no noticeable hormonal benefits) I will be in a different position. Don't worry .

    Oh, and: I'll never be done experimenting. There are always new and exciting things to try.

    Btw: I am going to switch careers! The last few months really changed my view on nutrition and aesthetics; I am going to pick up nutritional science next semester and aim for a master's degree in the long run (while still finishing my bachelor @ communication science to earn some money ).
    Best of luck for the switch, teach them nutty professors a little bit about nutrition!
    PLEASE DON'T REP ME, REP THE GUYS IN THE "HOW TO LOSE FAT FOR NOOBS" THREAD INSTEAD
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  7. #4387
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    Just like to put in a quick Thanks to wave_length for simplifying fat loss!
    also like to thank Robby for his meta calc!

    At the end of week 12 now down from 312 pounds to 291 (29% BF)
    Strength has definately improved in the gym and thank god i dont have to do anymore cardio
    Aiming to hit 200 pounds by end of next year

    If a lazy fat ass like me can do it anyone can
    and i eat ANY food thats within macros
    Last edited by GTR-NUT; 10-25-2009 at 01:06 AM.

  8. #4388
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    how fast of a metabolism does someone with a "fast metabolism" have over someone with a normal or slow metabolism?

    is it really true that those people that can eat whatever they want have a crazy metabolisms or is it that they actually dont eat as much as they make it out to be on a regular basis.

    a little bit of both?

    : )

  9. #4389
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    Wavelength Guide to Bodybuilding v3.0

    The goal of bodybuilding is to improve body composition by losing fat and/or gaining muscle mass. If total body weight goes down in the process, the method is generally referred to as "cutting", if total body weight goes up, it's called "bulking", if body weight stays about the same, it's called "recomping".


    1 Cutting

    1.1 Essential Rules

    - Workout with weights about 3 times a week.
    - Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day.
    - Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day.
    - Above that eat whatever you want, preferably a wide variety of foods.
    - Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight loss is maintained.

    The recommended rate of weight loss depends on your current body fat level. Generally, the higher your bodyfat, the higher the rate of weight loss can potentially be. The best indication for the rate being too high is if you rapidly lose strength in the gym. In this case, increase your intake and go for a smaller rate of weight loss. In general, a rate of about 1-2lbs per week is recommended.

    Any cutting method that follows the above rules is close to optimal, any further details will not have significant effect on body composition. If you already have a meal plan, just check if these rules are followed and adjust if not.

    1.2 Measuring Progress and Adjusting Food Intake

    - Weigh yourself once a week, always at the same time (e.g. right after waking up).
    - Don't panic if your weight stays the same or even goes up for one or two weeks.
    - If your weight does not go down for more than three weeks, slightly reduce calories.
    - If your rate of weight loss is above the desired value, slightly increase calories.
    - The change in daily calories from those adjustments should not exceed 500 cals.
    - After adjustment, stay on the new value for at least three weeks before adjusting again.

    If you have never done a cutting diet, it's always better to start with more calories and reduce slowly until the desired rate of weight loss is maintained. If you stay patient, you will not have to adjust very often. With more experience, you will not have to count calories anymore, but as a beginner it is probably a good idea.

    1.3 Unessential Factors

    Since many questions revolve around further details of cutting diets, here is a list of factors that I believe to be of insignificant effect for body composition:

    - Cardio and fat burners,
    - Meal timing and meal frequency,
    - Protein / Carb / Fat distribution throughout the day,
    - carb / fat ratio,
    - Sodium intake,
    - Moderate alcohol intake,
    - Use of supplements resp. meal replacements,
    - "Clean" food vs. Junk food (sugar and saturated fat).

    All these factors should be used as tools to make the diet as convenient as possible. Many people e.g. have an easier time dieting with eating more calories and doing cardio or taking fat burners. Some people like myself have an easier time without cardio and fat burners. In my experience, the end result (body composition improvement) is not significantly influenced. Another example is protein supplements. I e.g. use whey powder to meet my daily protein intake out of convenience. I could just as well get all my protein from other sources. A third example is meal frequency and timing. This tool should be used to reduce hunger as much as possible throughout the day. For some people that means eating 6 times a day, for others it means eating only once or twice a day.


    2 Bulking and Recomping

    The only factor that changes for bulking or recomping is that the rate of weight change X is positive resp. zero. All other essential rules are exactly the same as for cutting (see sections above).

    For bulking, the critical factor is the value of X. Everyone has a different ability to gain weight with a certain ratio of muscle vs. fat gain. This ability is dependent on things like genetics, age, training experience, etc. The ratio will decrease the higher X is, but not in a linear way. The trick is to find the optimal value for X, where the ratio is still close to optimum. Unfortunally, this is solely a matter of experience. My advise would be to increase calories by 500 over maintenance and check if weight goes up while fat gains are still tolerable. If no weight is gained, increase calories again. If fat gains are too high, decrease calories.

    For recomping (staying at about the same total body weight), just weigh yourself from time to time and adjust food intake accordingly to maintain that weight. You can e.g. weigh yourself in the morning and just skip your last meal of the day if you're above target weight. You can determine your progress by how much strength you gain in the gym, by taking measurements (e.g. waist size), or simply by looking in the mirror.


    3 Weight Training

    Weight training refers to intense (anaerobic) strength training in this guide. This applies to all three variants of bodybuilding (cutting, bulking, and recomping). There are many methods of weight training, a typical 3 day split program is assembled here (the numbers refer to number of exercises):

    Day1: 3 x Chest, 2 x Biceps, 1 x Abs
    Day2: Rest
    Day3: 4 x Legs, 2 x Shoulders
    Day4: Rest
    Day5: 2 x Back, 2 x Triceps, 1 x Traps, 1 x Abs
    Day6: Rest
    Day7: Rest

    For each exercise, do one light warmup set, then go up with the weight on the next 2-3 sets, and do one or two heavy sets to failure or close to failure. For the smaller exercises (e.g. biceps), the number of sets can also only be 3-4 though. Repetition numbers should be in the range of 15-6. For the exercises one could e.g. do (in the above order):

    3 x Chest: BB Presses, DB Incline Presses, Dips
    2 x Biceps: DB Curls, Concentration/Cable Curls
    1 x Abs: Situps
    4 x Legs: Squats or Leg Presses, Leg Extensions, Leg Curls, Calf Raises
    2 x Shoulders: DB presses, Seated Rear Lateral DB Raises
    2 x Back: Pullups, Cable Pulldowns
    2 x Triceps: Skull Crushers, Cable Pushdowns
    1 x Traps: DB Shrugs
    1 x Abs: Leg Raises

    These are of course only examples, there are plenty of other exercises that can be used as replacements. There are also plenty of other workout plans such as HST, German Volume Training, etc. What's most important is that the training is intense and that all major muscle groups are involved throughout the week.


    4 Psychological Tips and Tricks

    - It is possible that you will not "see" changes in the mirror unless your bodyfat is rather low. Don't panic, as long as the rules are followed, everything is right on track.

    - If at all, only assess your physique right after a workout. At other times it's too dependent on water retention, and the mind will play tricks on you (telling you your progress sucks, etc.).

    - Have a cheat/pig-out day once in a while, where you eat what you want. I had one every week on my last diet. Don't feel guilty about it, as long as the rules are still followed (total intake still leads to the desired rate of weight change), everything is allright.

    - Don't take the whole thing too serious. It's better to not care about it so much. See it more as being the coach of another person, rather than yourself.


    5 Frequently Asked Questions

    Q: How do I determine how much calories I should consume?
    A: You can just go by what you currently eat and reduce from there as described in the guide. Alternativiely, use a calorie calculator like the "Total Metabolism Forecaster", see link section.

    Q: Is it important to get the same amount of calories resp. macros every day?
    A: No, it's OK to eat a little less one day and more the next.

    Q: How do I determine my lean body mass for calculating my protein intake?
    A: You have to take your total body weight and subtract your fat weight. If you e.g. weigh 200lbs and your bodyfat is 20% (=40lbs), your lean body mass is 200lbs - 40lbs = 160lbs. If you don't know your bodyfat, just take a guess. When in doubt, just eat a little more. However, if for some reason, you can't eat as much protein, just eat a little less, most people will still do fine.

    Q: Does it matter where I get my protein from and what are good protein sources?
    A: Generally, it does not matter. You can get your protein from meat, fish, eggs, cheese, protein powder, etc. Although there are differences in quality (regarding muscle sparing effect), they can easily be made up for with just a little more quantity.

    Q: I work out less/more than 3 times a week, is that OK?
    A: Yes, as long as all other essential rules are followed. Some people get away with less, some do better on more.

    Q: I lost a lot of weight in the first few weeks but weight loss has slowed down, why?
    A: The initial weight loss was probably mostly water loss. Stay at the current intake for at least another 3 weeks. If weight loss stalls, slightly reduce calories as described in the guide.

    Q: What about keto diets?
    A: Principally, keto diets (very low carb diets), as long as they follow all rules, would be fine. IMO, some people have a problem preserving muscle mass on a keto diet. For other people it works great. I don't think keto diets provide a significant advantage other than maybe being more convenient for some people.

    Q: What about post workout nutrition?
    A: I would not intentionally starve myself of protein after a workout. A meal containing some protein or a shake is perfectly fine.

    Q: Apart from body composition, what about health?
    A: First of all, it is important to distinguish between the goal of optimal body composition and the goal of optimal health. For the former, the guide provides all essential rules. For the latter, opinions vary a lot between experts and over time (see e.g. saturated fat, GI, food processing, cholesterol, etc.). Therefore, IMO the best way to go is to eat a wide variety of foods.

    Q: How can I lose fat in certain areas of my body?
    A: Although there are theories that spot reduction is possible to a certain degree, generally IMO it's not feasible. You can only reduce overall bodyfat and wait for the problem areas to come in.

    Q: What exactly is your diet?
    A: My cutting diet is somewhat extreme (see Links section). For bulking, I add a meal or two. That's just the most convenient way for me. However, every other diet that follows the essential rules is also perfectly OK.

    Q: Should I eat differently on workout days than on off days?
    A: That's not necessary, but if you're hungrier on workout days, you can eat a little more (out of convenience).

    Q: Does this guide also work for girls?
    A: Of course!


    6 Links

    How to lose fat for Noobs: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113693871
    Wavelength Cutting Diet: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=33
    Total Metabolism Forecaster: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=114980801
    Minimum Nutritional Requirements: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113310851


    7 Acknowledgements

    Thanks to everyone helping out in the "How to lose fat for Noobs" thread, especially:
    iDrive, th3pwn3r, Djin, Robby99999, HerveDuchemin, AntoineDufour, toiletmoose, b_white, mafiosoromano, ZidaneValor, Silleli, reaperchild, Vietgoboi, IzzyT, Marine man, FloridaGator, lmzerger, S1FU, chickeneater, Sabouneh, spak, hankst, Teflon_Don, MaximumIn10sity, Kamaitachi, older2533, TheReductionist, NorCALSpeed, Dominikm, Bigwill21, mrpacijr, Westboarder, TheManofSteel, N03xcus3s, Emma-Leigh, and finally Alan Aragon for making the thread a sticky.
    PLEASE DON'T REP ME, REP THE GUYS IN THE "HOW TO LOSE FAT FOR NOOBS" THREAD INSTEAD
    How to lose fat for Noobs: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129247741
    Bodybuilding Guide: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=553453753#post553453753

  10. #4390
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    ^^^ after 100 pages, I thought it's time for an update.
    PLEASE DON'T REP ME, REP THE GUYS IN THE "HOW TO LOSE FAT FOR NOOBS" THREAD INSTEAD
    How to lose fat for Noobs: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129247741
    Bodybuilding Guide: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=553453753#post553453753

  11. #4391
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    Originally Posted by GTR-NUT View Post
    Just like to put in a quick Thanks to wave_length for simplifying fat loss!
    also like to thank Robby for his meta calc!

    At the end of week 12 now down from 312 pounds to 291 (29% BF)
    Strength has definately improved in the gym and thank god i dont have to do anymore cardio
    Aiming to hit 200 pounds by end of next year

    If a lazy fat ass like me can do it anyone can
    and i eat ANY food thats within macros
    Thanks man and congrats on your progress!

    Originally Posted by wetheleaders View Post
    how fast of a metabolism does someone with a "fast metabolism" have over someone with a normal or slow metabolism?

    is it really true that those people that can eat whatever they want have a crazy metabolisms or is it that they actually dont eat as much as they make it out to be on a regular basis.

    a little bit of both?

    : )
    IMO, the differences are not that big. Skinny people tend to overestimate how much they eat, fat people underestimate.
    PLEASE DON'T REP ME, REP THE GUYS IN THE "HOW TO LOSE FAT FOR NOOBS" THREAD INSTEAD
    How to lose fat for Noobs: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129247741
    Bodybuilding Guide: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=553453753#post553453753

  12. #4392
    Registered User BigBoyAdd's Avatar
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    Good read W_L
    THANKS
    My cutting log:
    -----------------------------------------
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=513460853#post513460853

  13. #4393
    Registered User Sabouneh's Avatar
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    hey guys .. finally got a fat pic up of myself.. haha gotta keep up my diet.. but im slowly getting down there

    Just curious what people think my BF % is at? im guessing around 15-16 ?
    The names leanord washington.... where im from ? none of your gawd dam* business...

    "You have to do what others won't to achieve what others don't."

    BTK! " Bleed Time Krew "

  14. #4394
    Registered User TheReductionist's Avatar
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    Nice update on the Guide Wave, should probably put it somewhere people will find it easily though, so many people are just going to either look at the very first page and the last page of the thread, or just skip to the last page. Maybe replace the link in the OP. Sabouneh, i'm no expert but i'd say you're about right with your guess on BF%.
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  15. #4395
    ~~~ wave_length's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BigBoyAdd View Post
    Good read W_L
    THANKS
    Thanks man!

    Originally Posted by Sabouneh View Post
    hey guys .. finally got a fat pic up of myself.. haha gotta keep up my diet.. but im slowly getting down there

    Just curious what people think my BF % is at? im guessing around 15-16 ?
    You mean the pic of your avi? Looking good man, you have a good amount of muscle mass. BF sounds about right maybe a little higher.

    Originally Posted by TheReductionist View Post
    Nice update on the Guide Wave, should probably put it somewhere people will find it easily though, so many people are just going to either look at the very first page and the last page of the thread, or just skip to the last page. Maybe replace the link in the OP.
    Yeah thanks, it will be taken care of.
    PLEASE DON'T REP ME, REP THE GUYS IN THE "HOW TO LOSE FAT FOR NOOBS" THREAD INSTEAD
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    Bodybuilding Guide: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=553453753#post553453753

  16. #4396
    Soon to be mean n lean! Dominikm's Avatar
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    awwwwww....

    Even after being away for 6 weeks and only having started to contribute to this thread 6 weeks before that I got acknowledged for helping. Thanks man!
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120534891 - May 1st Challenge. (Prize!) Thread

    27/11 - 92.9kg
    04/12 - 92.4kg
    Dec - Month off for the festive season
    04/01 - 101.7kg
    11/01 - 96.95kg
    18/01 - 93.10kg
    25/01 - 92.95kg
    01/02 - 90.70kg
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    15/02 - 87.5kg
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  17. #4397
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    Originally Posted by Dominikm View Post
    awwwwww....

    Even after being away for 6 weeks and only having started to contribute to this thread 6 weeks before that I got acknowledged for helping. Thanks man!
    You deserve it bro!
    PLEASE DON'T REP ME, REP THE GUYS IN THE "HOW TO LOSE FAT FOR NOOBS" THREAD INSTEAD
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  18. #4398
    Registered User older2533's Avatar
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    Dominikm,

    Wow. I don't remember you being so tall. 292 feet! Wow.
    05/24/2009, 186.2 lbs
    04/01/2010, 159.4 lbs

    Loose rhymes with goose. Lose rhymes with ooze.

  19. #4399
    Soon to be mean n lean! Dominikm's Avatar
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    yea mate... Went to japan for holidays and lived off raw fish bascially, love the sushi! I tell ya there was something else in it...

    Hehe, frigging bodyspace, I can't change my giant height staus... I even emailed tech support and nothing got done :0
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120534891 - May 1st Challenge. (Prize!) Thread

    27/11 - 92.9kg
    04/12 - 92.4kg
    Dec - Month off for the festive season
    04/01 - 101.7kg
    11/01 - 96.95kg
    18/01 - 93.10kg
    25/01 - 92.95kg
    01/02 - 90.70kg
    08/02 - 90.20kg
    15/02 - 87.5kg
    01/03 - 87kg

  20. #4400
    Registered User BigBoyAdd's Avatar
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    wave_length
    Im going to do it your way from next week, cos in 3weeks I've lossed like 12+lb. Ya most will be water and waste but for 3weeks thats just to much. My guess is that 1or2 lb could be muscle and that scares me.
    My cutting log:
    -----------------------------------------
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=513460853#post513460853

  21. #4401
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    Originally Posted by BigBoyAdd View Post
    wave_length
    Im going to do it your way from next week, cos in 3weeks I've lossed like 12+lb. Ya most will be water and waste but for 3weeks thats just to much. My guess is that 1or2 lb could be muscle and that scares me.
    Have you lost strength in these 3 weeks?
    PLEASE DON'T REP ME, REP THE GUYS IN THE "HOW TO LOSE FAT FOR NOOBS" THREAD INSTEAD
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  22. #4402
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    Awesome Thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanx Wave

  23. #4403
    Registered User BigBoyAdd's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wave_length View Post
    Have you lost strength in these 3 weeks?
    Not really but lifts are getting harder.
    My cutting log:
    -----------------------------------------
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=513460853#post513460853

  24. #4404
    Registered User BigBoyAdd's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wave_length View Post
    Wavelength Guide to Bodybuilding v3.0

    1 Cutting

    1.1 Essential Rules

    - Workout with weights about 3 times a week.
    - Eat at least 1g protein / lb of lean body mass a day.
    - Eat some fruit, veggies/salad, and some essential fatty acids (EFAs) every day.
    - Above that eat whatever you want, preferably a wide variety of foods.
    - Adjust your food intake so that the desired rate of weight loss is maintained.
    BOLD = Q
    lean body mass is basically is - my BF reading ? so at mo Im 208lb, but my lean body mass is around 172lb. Does this mean I need to have 172grams of protein ? the more the better ???
    My cutting log:
    -----------------------------------------
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=513460853#post513460853

  25. #4405
    Mother Pho Ga phal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BigBoyAdd View Post
    BOLD = Q
    lean body mass is basically is - my BF reading ? so at mo Im 208lb, but my lean body mass is around 172lb. Does this mean I need to have 172grams of protein ? the more the better ???
    It means to aim around 170+, yes. -_-
    Life without sarcasm would be a dull and way too nice place to be.

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  26. #4406
    Registered User Sabouneh's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=wave_length;401695091]

    You mean the pic of your avi? Looking good man, you have a good amount of muscle mass. BF sounds about right maybe a little higher.

    QUOTE]

    Thanks man.... yea im trying to lose another 10-15 pounds.... when i tell people that.. their like " you dont want to get much thinner than you are now.. you will look skinny or anorexic " haha.. im hoping that when i lose the weight il actually look bigger but who knows.. you think that will happen ?
    The names leanord washington.... where im from ? none of your gawd dam* business...

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  27. #4407
    Mother Pho Ga phal's Avatar
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    You'll have to wait and see. I find the people that tell you otherwise are usually a little jealous at what you're aiming to achieve Especially when you're so close.
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  28. #4408
    Registered User Sabouneh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by phal View Post
    You'll have to wait and see. I find the people that tell you otherwise are usually a little jealous at what you're aiming to achieve Especially when you're so close.
    so are you weighing 150 in that avi of yours? if so then i think i will look pretty good at that weight.. seeing how we are close in height..

    im actually 5'7"
    The names leanord washington.... where im from ? none of your gawd dam* business...

    "You have to do what others won't to achieve what others don't."

    BTK! " Bleed Time Krew "

  29. #4409
    Mother Pho Ga phal's Avatar
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    Yes in all my profile pictures I'm 150 lbs.
    Life without sarcasm would be a dull and way too nice place to be.

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  30. #4410
    Registered User Sabouneh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by phal View Post
    Yes in all my profile pictures I'm 150 lbs.
    oh alright sweet.. thanks man
    The names leanord washington.... where im from ? none of your gawd dam* business...

    "You have to do what others won't to achieve what others don't."

    BTK! " Bleed Time Krew "

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