Religion of peace is at it again. Atheist Gets Death Threats Over Criticism of Islam

[k1ngofk1ng5]

Originally Posted by Moh7

no they dont, there the verses that ripper keeps posting that we now ignore because everytime we refute them he just keeps posting them.

ofcourse they do. they are not just one or two but several quotes all about fighting infidels.

[Moh7]

Originally Posted by k1ngofk1ng5

ofcourse they do. they are not just one or two but several quotes all about fighting infidels.

brah, the worst thing you can do is become a robot. and they'v ALL been refuted. Can you guess why no one answers ripper anymore?

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by NotoriousARAB

Can you please explain what this post has to do with the post I made to you?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=39

My post to you was about how you misused the word murder. And I showed you you were wrong using the dictionary. If you disagree with it please respond to it. If I'm wrong I want to know. However, just stating I'm wrong doesn't cut it with me. I need you to show me why I'm wrong. Also, your emotive statements do nothing to further this discussion kindly leave them out.

You fail.

In case you didn't notice, my entire response to you was about how you can't make up a law to justify killing people for thought crime. There is absolutely no way to justify murder as "lawful" because someone is guilty of thought. This is as ridiculous as declaring war on the color blue. You can call it what you want but 99.999999999999999% of people on this planet realize that MURDERING someone for a thought crime (not believing what you believe because they dont see it as truth) is not acceptable.

Murder in unlawful killing and you can't make laws against thought so therefore you are supporting murder. There is no possible way to argue against this, it's pure evil and you support it.

[Alpha_Papa]

Here's some interesting reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostas...t_for_apostasy

In Islamic law (sharia), the consensus view is that a male apostate must be put to death unless he suffers from a mental disorder or converted under duress, for example, due to an imminent danger of being killed. A female apostate must be either executed, according to Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh), or imprisoned until she reverts to Islam as advocated by the Sunni Hanafi school and by Shi'a scholars.[19]

A minority of medieval Islamic jurists, notably the Hanafi jurist Sarakhsi (d. 1090),[5] Maliki jurist Ibn al-Walid al-Baji (d. 494 AH) and Hanbali jurist Ibn Taymiyyah (1263-1328), held that apostasy carries no legal punishment.[6] Some contemporary Islamic Shafi`i jurists, such as the Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa,[7][8] some Shi'a jurists such as Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri,[9] and some jurists, scholars and writers of other Islamic sects, have argued or issued fatwas that either the changing of religion is not punishable or is only punishable under restricted circumstances, but these minority opinions have not found broad acceptance among the majority of Islamic scholars.[10][11][12][13]

[Alpha_Papa]

found an interesting reference from that wikipedia page...

www.compassdirect.org

[zman155]

Originally Posted by Alpha_Papa

found an interesting reference from that wikipedia page...

www.compassdirect.org

Alpha_papa, you seem geninuely interested to learn more about our belief system and why such things would be put in place. I myself was actually interested in this too so I asked the question yesterday in the Ask About Islam thread
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...236011&page=81

Consult post #2402 and click the links which say read for more info.. its about a 5 minute read.

This is also a good read to understand contexts
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=56

[Alpha_Papa]

Originally Posted by zman155

Alpha_papa, you seem geninuely interested to learn more about our belief system and why such things would be put in place. I myself was actually interested in this too so I asked the question yesterday in the Ask About Islam thread
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...236011&page=81

Consult post #2402 and click the links which say read for more info.. its about a 5 minute read.

This is also a good read to understand contexts
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=56

I read 2402 and the referenced posts. It really saddens me to read/see rational people believe in such an irrational argument.

Imagine if I believed in Greek Mythology and someone converted to another religion, and I killed that person because of it...or he went to court and was executed...or there was some other formal, rational, sane argument presented...does it still seem ok?

I've read your info...I recommend you read some of the arguments on that wikipedia page I referenced.

What kind of allah would want those who abandon islam to be killed? what good is all of islamic religion when it is not allowed to stand on its own merit? it's whole existence is based on forcing people to believe or die.

The Quran talks about how good allah is, how smart and benevolent, right? why is it so? what is mohammeds book trying to convince you of? why even bother?

I suppose you have to understand human nature to understand islam from my perspective, because if all you're doing is selective tunnel-vision (no disrespect intended) then you're never going to understand why it is such an inhumane, anti-social, and...for the lack of a better term, "evil" to kill someone for betraying a religion. Again, I'm not trying to be an ass, but your references only confirmed my interpretation.

Simply put, abandon Islam, and you know what you're doing, and you'll be punished not just by God, but you have to be punished on Earth by practicing muslims. That's from your source. If that were my religion, I would just say 'thats the way it is' and leave it be...i wouldn't want to defend it at all. The nazis were 'just following orders'. many soldiers who did things to civilians were 'just following orders'.

The topic is about an atheist getting death threats. well, i put that website in my signature because I believe in Christ as my Saviour, and its a good reference for those who aren't aware about persecuted Christians. Most countries doing so are Muslim...really? These guys face death or worse...and yet muslims living in Europe complain about political cartoons that criticize their religion? Just a tad hypocritical, no? It's actually abusive...towards Christians living in Muslim countries and for Muslims living in (traditionally) Christian countries. Yet here we are talking about death sentences for apostasy.

I guess I'm anti-muslim, because I hate it when anyone is persecuted for their religion, and by your own admission (references), you advocate this. Does any other muslim want to correct me or is zman speaking for most of you? (seems like there's quite a few muslims and/or arabs here)

[zman155]

Originally Posted by Alpha_Papa

I read 2402 and the referenced posts. It really saddens me to read/see rational people believe in such an irrational argument.

Imagine if I believed in Greek Mythology and someone converted to another religion, and I killed that person because of it...or he went to court and was executed...or there was some other formal, rational, sane argument presented...does it still seem ok?

I've read your info...I recommend you read some of the arguments on that wikipedia page I referenced.

What kind of allah would want those who abandon islam to be killed? what good is all of islamic religion when it is not allowed to stand on its own merit? it's whole existence is based on forcing people to believe or die.

The Quran talks about how good allah is, how smart and benevolent, right? why is it so? what is mohammeds book trying to convince you of? why even bother?

I suppose you have to understand human nature to understand islam from my perspective, because if all you're doing is selective tunnel-vision (no disrespect intended) then you're never going to understand why it is such an inhumane, anti-social, and...for the lack of a better term, "evil" to kill someone for betraying a religion. Again, I'm not trying to be an ass, but your references only confirmed my interpretation.

Simply put, abandon Islam, and you know what you're doing, and you'll be punished not just by God, but you have to be punished on Earth by practicing muslims. That's from your source. If that were my religion, I would just say 'thats the way it is' and leave it be...i wouldn't want to defend it at all. The nazis were 'just following orders'. many soldiers who did things to civilians were 'just following orders'.

The topic is about an atheist getting death threats. well, i put that website in my signature because I believe in Christ as my Saviour, and its a good reference for those who aren't aware about persecuted Christians. Most countries doing so are Muslim...really? These guys face death or worse...and yet muslims living in Europe complain about political cartoons that criticize their religion? Just a tad hypocritical, no? It's actually abusive...towards Christians living in Muslim countries and for Muslims living in (traditionally) Christian countries. Yet here we are talking about death sentences for apostasy.

I guess I'm anti-muslim, because I hate it when anyone is persecuted for their religion, and by your own admission (references), you advocate this. Does any other muslim want to correct me or is zman speaking for most of you? (seems like there's quite a few muslims and/or arabs here)

Edit:

PLEASE READ THIS POST!!
PLEASE READ THIS POST!!

PLEASE READ THIS POST!!

No disrespect to your beliefs, and do correct me if I am wrong, but does the penalty not apply in the Old Testament/Torah as well if I'm not mistaken? Should I therefore be anti-Christian/Jewish?


6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

11And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...11&version=KJV










I would like to not consider myself close minded by the way I am reading the Bible right now while I may not agree with all of it, I do respect the work. I will also admit that I am not the most knowledable person when it comes to religion and I just try my best to be a good person in the eyes of God and stay humble I wont pretend like I know everything about Islam and every single one of its rulings. (SK can explain things better than any Muslim on this forum)


I have also heard Christians say the laws of the Old Testament do not apply to them but then why would you guys include it in your holy book and why would Jesus say such things as

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthiew 5:17-18

Once again I am not trying to flame (I have great respect for the Christian faith) I am just trying to present as what I see, a pretty constructive argument.

[Dave22reborn]

Originally Posted by DaYang

i cant imagine why people dislike islam... i just dont get it

It must be the media which is controlled by Zionists.

[rich_tz]

Originally Posted by Dave22reborn

It must be the media which is controlled by Zionists.

Same reasons I dislike *all* religions (not HATE, just dislike!! there is a difference).

Self-righteousness, self-reinforcing arguments, "everyone else is wrong and we're right" point of view etc.... it's all f**king retarded.

By self-reinforcing arguments, I offer an example:

"God DID make the world in [x] days."
"Where's the proof?"
"Coz the Bible/Quran/[insert-religious-text-here] says so."
"And why is that proof?"
"Because God/Allah/[insert-deity-here] says it is so."
"Where do they say that?"
".... in the Bible/Quran/[x]"

.... and so begins the first recorded occurrence of an "infinite loop".

To further reinforce my argument, I'd like to turn your attention to the negs I'll *probably* get from the religious devout simply for expression a point of view that differs from their own. If a Muslim and a Christian both neg me, it'll be the first time the two religions have ever agreed on anything. OH NOES! CONTRADICTION!!!

[NotoriousARAB]

Originally Posted by US_Ranger

You fail.

In case you didn't notice, my entire response to you was about how you can't make up a law to justify killing people for thought crime. There is absolutely no way to justify murder as "lawful" because someone is guilty of thought. This is as ridiculous as declaring war on the color blue. You can call it what you want but 99.999999999999999% of people on this planet realize that MURDERING someone for a thought crime (not believing what you believe because they dont see it as truth) is not acceptable.

Murder in unlawful killing and you can't make laws against thought so therefore you are supporting murder. There is no possible way to argue against this, it's pure evil and you support it.

I did notice and it had nothing to do with my post. I clearly addressed how it cannot be considered murder using the DICTIONARY definition. Whether or not you think the law is right is a COMPLETELY SEPARATE issue to its legality.

Please use the dictionary to formulate your next response.

[NotoriousARAB]

Originally Posted by psamty

Precisely. This is simply sickening. I agree, anyone named NotoriousArab definitely deserves to be killed. They have committed a major crime, God told me so. O and its not murder coz its legal.

Power always thinks... that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws. - John Adams

You still have a post to respond to in this thread. Don't run away because you were called out on another lie.

Originally Posted by NotoriousARAB

How have I justified murder?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/
Here's a link to the dictionary. Please use the definition to show HOW I justify murder. I find that the people who cite logic and reason the most are the very people who use it the least. So please show me how I violate the rules of logic. Would it interest you to know that I'm in fact using the Argument from Definition?

Or are you just going to play these childish games where you pretend you're too intelligent to offer a well thoughtout response?

[psamty]

Originally Posted by NotoriousARAB

You still have a post to respond to in this thread. Don't run away because you were called out on another lie.

Murder, justified by whatever nonsense babble you spout, is still murder. It doesn't need more than that. Your endorsement of murdering innocents (by claiming they are not really innocents) is sickening. When the same thing is done by Israel you cry like a little baby.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by zman155

[B]

God says that anyone who becomes an apostate has not only nullified all their good deeds, but they will also enter Hellfire after death and God has promised never to guide them. Therefore according to God, such a person's reason for existence is terminated and God commands that they be executed so that they will immediately meet God for punishment. So someone who has no longer any chance of guidance is already dead.

.....wow....seriously?

see, this is why......

you know what i'm out.

I can't even....ugh.

[NotoriousARAB]

Originally Posted by psamty

Murder, justified by whatever nonsense babble you spout, is still murder. It doesn't need more than that. Your endorsement of murdering innocents (by claiming they are not really innocents) is sickening.

You keep claiming that I'm justifying murder yet you have not been able to use the DICTIONARY DEFINITION to show how I am doing it. You also seem to associate legality of an issue with right or wrong which shows you are unable to differentiate between the two.

When the same thing is done by Israel you cry like a little baby.

Links to my own posts please. You don't think I'm gonna let you make statements about me without using my own posts do you? Unless, of course, you're lieing again.

[psamty]

Originally Posted by NotoriousARAB

You keep claiming that I'm justifying murder yet you have not been able to use the DICTIONARY DEFINITION to show how I am doing it. You also seem to associate legality of an issue with right or wrong which shows you are unable to differentiate between the two.

Anyone can make anything legal if they hold the reins of power. It doesn't stop it from being murder. It seems like you're just mad that people don't support your barbarism, yet you constantly whine and cry for support when you are the victim of another's barbarity.

[NotoriousARAB]

Originally Posted by psamty

Anyone can make anything legal if they hold the reins of power. It doesn't stop it from being murder.

by DEFINITION it isn't murder

It seems like you're just mad that people don't support your barbarism, yet you constantly whine and cry for support when you are the victim of another's barbarity.

I'm not mad at all actually. I find it quite funny that the very definition of the word you are using contradicts your statements. And please link to my posts that substantiate your claims against me. If you cannot then can you please stop lieing about me. Thanks.

You also forgot to address the rules of logic that I have supposedly violated. Please substantiate your allegations.

[psamty]

Originally Posted by NotoriousARAB

by DEFINITION it isn't murder

Keep justifying it, doesn't bother me. By definition Israel bombing up civilians isn't murder either.... it's just collateral damage.

[NotoriousARAB]

Originally Posted by psamty

Keep justifying it, doesn't bother me. By definition Israel bombing up civilians isn't murder either.... it's just collateral damage.

I haven't justified anything. I've used the dictionary definition to show how your statements are a complete contradiction.

I'd also like you to substantiate your allegations towards me or retract your statements please.

[psamty]

Originally Posted by NotoriousARAB

I haven't justified anything. I've used the dictionary definition to show how your statements are a complete contradiction.

I'd also like you to substantiate your allegations towards me or retract your statements please.

You can like whatever you want, I'll probably do the opposite as a statement against your endorsement of murder.

[NotoriousARAB]

Originally Posted by psamty

You can like whatever you want, I'll probably do the opposite as a statement against your endorsement of murder.

I haven't endorsed any murder.

It's abundantly clear that

1. You do not understand the dictionary definition of murder
2. You are a liar. EDIT: If anyone reading this post would like me to produce psamty's own posts that show him lieing on more than one occasion I have no problem doing it.

It was a pleasure speaking with you psamty.

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by NotoriousARAB

I did notice and it had nothing to do with my post. I clearly addressed how it cannot be considered murder using the DICTIONARY definition. Whether or not you think the law is right is a COMPLETELY SEPARATE issue to its legality.

Please use the dictionary to formulate your next response.

You just don't quit do you. Dance around it all day, you've obviously taken lessons from SK and you know how to rationalize murder. I don't care about your dictionary definition because it's not taking into account that ANYONE can say ANYTHING is a law to justify what they're doing. It's been said numerous times but if Israel made a law saying Palestinians weren't innocent and then killed every Palestinian on the planet, your entire Muslim world would flip out. If I declared that Muslims were not innocent and went on a killing spree, that would be considered murder by any sane person and I would be stopped. You're justifying murder by using semantics. It's disgusting and you know it. You can double think all day long like a nice evil sheep but at some point in your life you're going to forget to push "false" memories out of your head and you're going to realize that murdering innocent people is wrong.

[zman155]

Did everyone just ignore my post about how this law is in judiasm and Christianity? Can seine answer that for me please?

[BJplayer]

Its obvious that Islam is evil and is certainly not the type of religion that a just and true God would create. Murdering people because of their beliefs, sexual orientation, etc? That is just the ramblings of a 6th century warlord. This is a simply a hate group disquised as religion. Its sick and its sad and they continue to spread their vile hate around the world.

[zman155]

Originally Posted by BJplayer

Its obvious that Islam is evil and is certainly not the type of religion that a just and true God would create. Murdering people because of their beliefs, sexual orientation, etc? That is just the ramblings of a 6th century warlord. This is a simply a hate group disquised as religion. Its sick and its sad and they continue to spread their vile hate around the world.

How bout answering my question about Christianity and Judiasm buddy? (See above)

[BJplayer]

Originally Posted by zman155

How bout answering my question about Christianity and Judiasm buddy? (See above)

How about no since I dont follow either religion. However, I dont see any Christians or Jews past the middle ages advocating murder of innocent people but I see every Muslim on this board do so. Islam is sick and twisted and needs to be expunged from this planet if we are to progress as a species.

[zman155]

Originally Posted by BJplayer

How about no since I dont follow either religion. However, I dont see any Christians or Jews past the middle ages advocating murder of innocent people but I see every Muslim on this board do so. Islam is sick and twisted and needs to be expunged from this planet if we are to progress as a species.

It doesn't matter whether they do it or not 99% of Muslims aren't either. There is no such thing as country with Islamic sharia law. It is in their holy books regardless of whether they do or not. (the OT and NT)

But you are doing a good thing here, preaching hatred for all Muslims so wheb someone meets a Muslim now, they are believe he's evil because of your twisted propoganda.
Preach on brother.

[BTI]

Originally Posted by zman155

But you are doing a good thing here, preaching hatred for all Muslims so wheb someone meets a Muslim now, they are believe he's evil because of your twisted propoganda.
Preach on brother.

I'm more focused on NotoriousARAB's endorsement of murder in this thread.

Islam doesn't require propaganda to make it look evil. The words and actions by Muslims are sufficient.

[NotoriousARAB]

Originally Posted by US_Ranger

You just don't quit do you. Dance around it all day, you've obviously taken lessons from SK and you know how to rationalize murder. I don't care about your dictionary definition

You should. We're using the same language and it completely contradicts your statements.

because it's not taking into account that ANYONE can say ANYTHING is a law to justify what they're doing.

It doesn't have to. The law does not neccesarily equal morality.

It's been said numerous times but if Israel made a law saying Palestinians weren't innocent and then killed every Palestinian on the planet, your entire Muslim world would flip out.

It doesn't matter what law a sovereign government puts into practice. If Israel were to put that into law then it would be legal. Also, just because a law exists does not mean that people will like it.Do you understand that legal doesn't necessarily mean right or wrong?

If I declared that Muslims were not innocent and went on a killing spree, that would be considered murder by any sane person and I would be stopped.

If you were to set up your own country and enact that law then it would be legal. Do you understand the legal does not necessarily mean right or wrong?

You're justifying murder by using semantics. It's disgusting and you know it. You can double think all day long like a nice evil sheep but at some point in your life you're going to forget to push "false" memories out of your head and you're going to realize that murdering innocent people is wrong.

I haven't justified anything. I showed how you contradict yourself using your own language.

Lets recap

1. You completely misused a word and I demonstrated how you did it by producing the actual definition of the word.
2. You seem to think that the legality of an issue equals its morality which is completely false and reveals that you do not possess an understanding of both concepts.

Thanks for your time.

[NotoriousARAB]

Originally Posted by BTI

I'm more focused on NotoriousARAB's endorsement of murder in this thread.

Islam doesn't require propaganda to make it look evil. The words and actions by Muslims are sufficient.

You are more than welcome to use the dictionary definition of the word and my own posts to prove that I do indeed support murder.

Take your time.