Is deep squating reallly the best?

[HankZuckler]

Yeah but quarter squats work hams much better (not srs)
its probobly a good idea to let this thread die, having a long debate about squat depth never seems to get anywhere

[mybody001]

fight fight fight!


atg, yah! hardcore!














actually, it is h/c brahs.

[mybody001]

Originally Posted by R.Talbott

They're. It's not that hard.

Feel free to use your "10x" more lifting knowledge to state how atg works your quads more than parallel or quarter squats do. If not, then stfu.

at what point did you use your 10/x knowledge to state how atg works your quads less? obviously with the same amount of weight/reps, you're putting more work on your quads due to the length of travel which is longer in atg. w = f x duhhh. quit with your grammar police bs and contribute with more insightful inputs.


and what's with this bad for your knees bro sci fact? you people ever read any studies before listening to other dumb people/making up information to sound knowledgeable?

[zack98292]

Ahh,since there is a thread about squats.
I do ATG squats and there will be a pain at the tailbone area,the same pain that i got from rugby injury last year.
Its not very painful,just uncomfortable but i am worried since its a part of the spine,is it alright to go on?

[R.Talbott]

Originally Posted by mybody001

at what point did you use your 10/x knowledge to state how atg works your quads less? obviously with the same amount of weight/reps, you're putting more work on your quads due to the length of travel which is longer in atg. w = f x duhhh. quit with your grammar police bs and contribute with more insightful inputs.


and what's with this bad for your knees bro sci fact? you people ever read any studies before listening to other dumb people/making up information to sound knowledgeable?

Did you even read the thread? Facepalm.

He said he was 10x more knowledgable than me genius. Your reading comprehension=fail.

Somebody calls me out then they can feel free to state why I'm wrong. And who the hell uses more weight on atg than parallel for quarter squats for that matter?

That's besides the point. When doing atg you have to use a wider stance which takes emphasis off the quads and puts it into the hams and glutes. With a narrow stance in parallel and quarter the emphasis stays on the quads and they remain the primary mover.

[Karaim]

Originally Posted by TheStreetKing

Your a tool! And yes ATG will work quads just as much if not more then parallel/Quarter!

Once you go past parallel, the glutes and hamstrings take over and the quads just stabilize. So squatting past parallel will work the quads only slightly more (via stabilizing) than parallel squatting. However, since you use less weight the lower you go, deep squatting is really less beneficial for the quads.

[LatinoMusculito]

Meh. I stopped doing ATG. Messed up my hip flexor. I do about parallel now if not just below. Plus leg press. Quads are looking good.

[TheStreetKing]

Originally Posted by Karaim

Once you go past parallel, the glutes and hamstrings take over and the quads just stabilize. So squatting past parallel will work the quads only slightly more (via stabilizing) than parallel squatting. However, since you use less weight the lower you go, deep squatting is really less beneficial for the quads.

Once you go past Parallel the load of the weight goes from your Patella to your hips, But your Quads are still under a lot of stress stabilizing and carrying the load while your Hams/Glutes handle the bottom part of the movement. Even if the Quads are only handling lets say 20% of the load they are being worked. Hence more growth, The more muscle fibers you fatigue/exhaust the more growth you get. It's pretty simple man. Your Quads don't know the difference between 315lbs or 335lbs so the more weight arguement is kinda bull****, A perfect example is Jay Cutler, He trains pretty damn light for a huge fkin bodybuilder and he's still the same size as Ronnie Coleman who lifts twice as heavy!

[R.Talbott]

Originally Posted by TheStreetKing

Once you go past Parallel the load of the weight goes from your Patella to your hips, But your Quads are still under a lot of stress stabilizing and carrying the load while your Hams/Glutes handle the bottom part of the movement. Even if the Quads are only handling lets say 20% of the load they are being worked. Hence more growth, The more muscle fibers you fatigue/exhaust the more growth you get. It's pretty simple man. Your Quads don't know the difference between 315lbs or 335lbs so the more weight arguement is kinda bull****, A perfect example is Jay Cutler, He trains pretty damn light for a huge fkin bodybuilder and he's still the same size as Ronnie Coleman who lifts twice as heavy!

Your body doesn't know the difference between 315 and 335? I guess progression is pointless for bodybuilding then. Thanks for clarifying.

And nice bodybuilder analogy. So since two bodybuilders who are on horse steroids (no gear bashing), train two different ways, one with less weight, that's how you came up with using less weight has no effect on how much your quads are worked? I didn't know everyones body was made exactly the same. Wow. With this post, I am done with this thread. You're a moron.

[seriouslifter]

everyone is thinking way to deep in this. just do your squats and go down! dont do pussy sh!t 3/4 ROM. every squat/leg workout I have had, my whole legs are sore next day. if you do squats ATG or whatever quads, hams and glutes get worked.

[kittyboy]

Originally Posted by R.Talbott

Did you even read the thread? Facepalm.

He said he was 10x more knowledgable than me genius. Your reading comprehension=fail.

Somebody calls me out then they can feel free to state why I'm wrong. And who the hell uses more weight on atg than parallel for quarter squats for that matter?

That's besides the point. When doing atg you have to use a wider stance which takes emphasis off the quads and puts it into the hams and glutes. With a narrow stance in parallel and quarter the emphasis stays on the quads and they remain the primary mover.

That should be "I" rather than "me", and you omitted a comma. Your grammar policing = fail.

Your 1/4 squats also = fail.

[Opies]

Originally Posted by R.Talbott

Your body doesn't know the difference between 315 and 335? I guess progression is pointless for bodybuilding then. Thanks for clarifying.

he is right. the MUSCLE doesn't know the difference between 315 and 335. The MUSCLE only knows WORK. You can easily do more work squatting 315 than 335 depending on reps/sets/tut/technique. Guys who train lighter know how to do the same amount of WORK with less weight. after all your MUSCLE only understands WORK and grows due to WORK.

People typically use linear progression in the form of weight because more weight generally means more work, but you can also progress by doing more work while using the same weight.

[R.Talbott]

Originally Posted by Opies

he is right. the MUSCLE doesn't know the difference between 315 and 335. The MUSCLE only knows WORK. You can easily do more work squatting 315 than 335 depending on reps/sets/tut/technique. Guys who train lighter know how to do the same amount of WORK with less weight. after all your MUSCLE only understands WORK and grows due to WORK.

People typically use linear progression in the form of weight because more weight generally means more work, but you can also progress by doing more work while using the same weight.

I'll respond to you, not TheStreeQueen anymore. Assuming technique is not changed, your muscle does know the difference in weight. Period. With the wider stance required for atg squatting over conventional/parallel squats, your hams and glutes take over on the movement and are the primary movers. Simple mechanics. The narrower stance used in parallel squatting, the quads are the primary movers. Therefore the weight and technique argument, doesn't even have anything to do with the desired movements and muscles worked. The only way it does, is if the movement is exactly the same. Close grip bench, and wide grip bench aren't the same movement either. The same would apply to those 2 exercises as well as anyother variations in many other exercises for various body parts.

And to kittywhatever, wow, just wow. I believe you learn how pronouns are used in 4th grade. Three pronouns used in one sentence
=too much for you. And 1/4 squats fail? Go tell that to dpd555.

[Opies]

Originally Posted by R.Talbott

I'll respond to you, not TheStreeQueen anymore. Assuming technique is not changed, your muscle does know the difference in weight. Period.

strong reasoning... but no it DOESN'T. I'll use an easy example to prove it.

Curl your max weight for 10
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure

ever done this before? I'm sure you have. Ever notice how as you keep going, the weight always feels the same? It gets to the point where you are grunting and screaming trying to curl that 10lb dumbell. WHY? Because the muscle doesn't know how much weight you are doing. It only knows how much WORK it has to do. When the majority of muscle fibers are fatigued, a 10lb weight feels like 60lbs because the muscle fibers that are still contracting are doing as much work as they can. Just like when you were curling your max.

Your muscles do not know how much weight they are moving. This is why 70lbs fresh feels the exact same to your muscle as 10lb fatigued.

[TheStreetKing]

Originally Posted by Opies

strong reasoning... but no it DOESN'T. I'll use an easy example to prove it.

Curl your max weight for 10
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure

ever done this before? I'm sure you have. Ever notice how as you keep going, the weight always feels the same? It gets to the point where you are grunting and screaming trying to curl that 10lb dumbell. WHY? Because the muscle doesn't know how much weight you are doing. It only knows how much WORK it has to do. When the majority of muscle fibers are fatigued, a 10lb weight feels like 60lbs because the muscle fibers that are still contracting are doing as much work as they can. Just like when you were curling your max.

Your muscles do not know how much weight they are moving. This is why 70lbs fresh feels the exact same to your muscle as 10lb fatigued.

Good job on trying to explain how it works opies, Some kids you just can't beat it into their heads.

[-Lucifer]

Originally Posted by Opies

strong reasoning... but no it DOESN'T. I'll use an easy example to prove it.
Curl your max weight for 10
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure
ever done this before? I'm sure you have. Ever notice how as you keep going, the weight always feels the same? It gets to the point where you are grunting and screaming trying to curl that 10lb dumbell. WHY? Because the muscle doesn't know how much weight you are doing. It only knows how much WORK it has to do. When the majority of muscle fibers are fatigued, a 10lb weight feels like 60lbs because the muscle fibers that are still contracting are doing as much work as they can. Just like when you were curling your max.
Your muscles do not know how much weight they are moving. This is why 70lbs fresh feels the exact same to your muscle as 10lb fatigued.

Smart kid.

Too bad some people won't get it.

[H-Town-Matt]

The A2G term is defo a joke term. If you watch some 'A2G' vids on youtube, you see they let their knees travel so far forward, that they are just at parallel or slightly below it.

[WoopItsKevin]

Justin I attached 2 pics here, one of lesters quads and one of mine...in my opinion we both have decent quads compared to most 20 year old natural dudes, and we literally attribute all of the size to low ass squats and deep leg presses. We've never done front squats or any fancy ****...just balls to the wall squatting. Just thought I'd give my 2 cents.

[CookAndrewB]

Originally Posted by Opies

strong reasoning... but no it DOESN'T. I'll use an easy example to prove it.

Curl your max weight for 10
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure

ever done this before? I'm sure you have. Ever notice how as you keep going, the weight always feels the same? It gets to the point where you are grunting and screaming trying to curl that 10lb dumbell. WHY? Because the muscle doesn't know how much weight you are doing. It only knows how much WORK it has to do. When the majority of muscle fibers are fatigued, a 10lb weight feels like 60lbs because the muscle fibers that are still contracting are doing as much work as they can. Just like when you were curling your max.

Your muscles do not know how much weight they are moving. This is why 70lbs fresh feels the exact same to your muscle as 10lb fatigued.

I think we are getting perceived effort and actual effort confused a bit here. I'm not arguing for or against anything here, but no matter how difficult you THINK curling that 10lb DB is, it isn't going to give you the same effect as curling 70lbs.

Try this:

Take 10lbs and curl it super slow, exerting just enough force on the DB to slowly overcome the resistance. Curl in these super slow reps for a set until you fail. The perceived exertion will be great, but the usefulness of this exercise will be nil.

Another example of how perceived effort is meaningless is that my "hardest" sets in a day are some of my first working sets. These sets are MORE difficult for me because my CNS isn't fully primed as it is later in my workout. So while hitting a few reps at 70% of my squat max may feel like a real chore, and reps at 90% feel better, the value of each isn't dictated by how difficult I THINK the work is.

[Oregon_Guy]

Originally Posted by WoopItsKevin

Justin I attached 2 pics here, one of lesters quads and one of mine...in my opinion we both have decent quads compared to most 20 year old natural dudes, and we literally attribute all of the size to low ass squats and deep leg presses. We've never done front squats or any fancy ****...just balls to the wall squatting. Just thought I'd give my 2 cents.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm definitely impressed. You have been repped.

[94jettameowpsst]

should you vary workouts to incorporate front and back squats or do both on each leg day?

[CookAndrewB]

Originally Posted by 94jettameowpsst

should you vary workouts to incorporate front and back squats or do both on each leg day?

This really depends. If you are just starting out I would say you would most likely be safe just to add them into leg day, perhaps as a warmup for your normal back squatting. Most people need to start a little lighter on front squats in order to keep a good vertical back position. Once you get the feel for this, then you can start adding weight. My feeling is that this light starting weight will give you practically a zero net increase in the workload as far as recovery is concerned. Now, further down the road you may consider squatting twice a week (one front, one back) or perhaps doing front squats on days you deadlift, if that day is not a back squatting day as well.

[94jettameowpsst]

Originally Posted by CookAndrewB

This really depends. If you are just starting out I would say you would most likely be safe just to add them into leg day, perhaps as a warmup for your normal back squatting. Most people need to start a little lighter on front squats in order to keep a good vertical back position. Once you get the feel for this, then you can start adding weight. My feeling is that this light starting weight will give you practically a zero net increase in the workload as far as recovery is concerned. Now, further down the road you may consider squatting twice a week (one front, one back) or perhaps doing front squats on days you deadlift, if that day is not a back squatting day as well.

Gotcha.

Yea, i havent done front squats in about a year or two....right quad is about 2 inches higher than my left and that so happens to be the leg i have knee problems with so for the most part i've been doing box squats with a really low box (not sitting down or anything, but just there so i dont have to use my legs to fully stop me...its complicated lol) and i've made pretty good progress but i think fronts need to be part of my diet again

[CookAndrewB]

Originally Posted by 94jettameowpsst

Gotcha.

Yea, i havent done front squats in about a year or two....right quad is about 2 inches higher than my left and that so happens to be the leg i have knee problems with so for the most part i've been doing box squats with a really low box (not sitting down or anything, but just there so i dont have to use my legs to fully stop me...its complicated lol) and i've made pretty good progress but i think fronts need to be part of my diet again

Add them in then. Worst thing that can happen is that you may need to move them around a bit until you find a good spot for them.

[Defiant1]

Originally Posted by Opies

strong reasoning... but no it DOESN'T. I'll use an easy example to prove it.

Curl your max weight for 10
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure
without rest
Curl 10lb less till failure

ever done this before? I'm sure you have. Ever notice how as you keep going, the weight always feels the same? It gets to the point where you are grunting and screaming trying to curl that 10lb dumbell. WHY? Because the muscle doesn't know how much weight you are doing. It only knows how much WORK it has to do. When the majority of muscle fibers are fatigued, a 10lb weight feels like 60lbs because the muscle fibers that are still contracting are doing as much work as they can. Just like when you were curling your max.

Your muscles do not know how much weight they are moving. This is why 70lbs fresh feels the exact same to your muscle as 10lb fatigued.

Sorry, but that is not correct. Adaptation is very specific, and in fact adaptation to doing max singles is not the same as doing reps to the same point of relative "effort". In fact, "the muscle" seems to understand the resistance curve (it will adapt to it), whether you are using free weights or machines, how the exercise relates to the length/tension curve etc.

By your logic, distance runners would be huge because at the end of their race they are doing a relatively high effort, the same as sprinters.

Your "work" point actually argues against you. W=F x D. The only way to maximize Work is to maximize force. Obviously, if one is doing a lower resistance for the same distance, the amount of work is going to be less.

Break it down further: F= M x A. The mass is now lower. So the force is lower, so the work is less.

[TheHitStick]

Originally Posted by R.Talbott

They're. It's not that hard.

Feel free to use your "10x" more lifting knowledge to state how atg works your quads more than parallel or quarter squats do. If not, then stfu.

So you're telling me to do quarter squats in order to work my quads more? Strong logic.

Quarter squats are the reason for knee injuries, too much weight for the person so that they can't get the full ROM.

Personally, I box squat an inch or two below parallel, works fine for me.

[lefthookright]

Originally Posted by R.Talbott

That's besides the point. When doing atg you have to use a wider stance which takes emphasis off the quads and puts it into the hams and glutes. With a narrow stance in parallel and quarter the emphasis stays on the quads and they remain the primary mover.

LOL ever heard of an olympic squat?


Crap yeah... look at that huge wide stance you have to take there... bet he's not hittin his quads as hard anymore shoot brb squatting like below

[KyleSlim]

Your going to get more muscle fiber recruitment with deeper squats, although you wont be able to go as heavy. In theory the more muscle fiber recruitment you have the greater the growth potential. Also, if your squatting to build up your quads then try using front squats as they better target the quads.

[94jettameowpsst]

i usually squat 315x6 or 8


185x8 with front squats ftmfw....lol i have a feeling im not going to walk tomorrow.

[Jharmes5]

Originally Posted by 94jettameowpsst

should you vary workouts to incorporate front and back squats or do both on each leg day?

This. I back squat for overall lower body development, and front squat to make my quads look good, and further strengthen them. I got below parallel for back squatting to strengthen everything as a unit, and just below parallel for front squatting because it feels right to me to go that low.