Let's talk - Natural Mr Olympia gives advice

[bwilkison]

Thanks for the info. I am checking out the site now!

[Natural_O]

Hey Guys, I'll be at the Optimum Nutrition/ABB booth this weekend at the Olympia so if anyone is going to Vegas this weekend to see the Big Show, be sure to stop by and say Hi!

[Bat_Man]

Originally Posted by Natural_O

Hey Joey, I used to take liver tablets when I first started training. You're right, they are definitely more of an "old-school" supplement. I used to take 10 tabs a day, 3x a day, for 30 tablets per day. I think they are a great source of B-vitamins and protein. BCAA's are also excellent for supplying the muscles with protein (aminos) which will help recovery and muscle size. I would give the liver tablets a try and see if you notice any difference in your energy, your recovery and your muscle mass. If you don't, stick with the BCAA's.

Thanks for the reply john! I was thinking of taking 2 with every meal to start, so 12 in all. Would this be too little? I could also do 4 with my 3 biggest meals.

Also, in you natural bodybuilding book you specify what to look for in a multi. I found these two options, which would you say is better:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/dym/supermulti.html
or
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sport/multiv.html

Do you think i would be overdosing on b vitamins if i combined these multis with liver tabs?

Thanks
Joey

[al_77]

Also, what do you think about cycling creatine? I've been taking 5g on workout days for the past 3-4 months, should I take a break anytime soon? I don't want to lose size/strength or anything though

[wrestlerguy]

Hey John,

You mentioned that you only take your last 1-2 sets to failure. Then what do you do for your first 1-2 sets, a very light weight set? Or a moderate weight? Because i think you said you did a moderate weighted set but I wouldn't see the point of that as that will effect your next two all out sets.

Do you always do one set of lightweight before your heavy sets, or do you just go right to it if your already warmed up (say if you already did an exercise and your chest is ready)

[asianboy101]

Hi John
do u believe that u have to squat to get big arms?

thx champ

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by al_77

Also, what do you think about cycling creatine? I've been taking 5g on workout days for the past 3-4 months, should I take a break anytime soon? I don't want to lose size/strength or anything though

That's a good question. I've tried it both ways and I didn't notice a big difference from cycling the creatine. You should check out my interview with Jerry Brainum on naturalbodybuilding.com. Jerry talks in detail about creatine supplementation.

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by wrestlerguy

Hey John,

You mentioned that you only take your last 1-2 sets to failure. Then what do you do for your first 1-2 sets, a very light weight set? Or a moderate weight? Because i think you said you did a moderate weighted set but I wouldn't see the point of that as that will effect your next two all out sets.

Do you always do one set of lightweight before your heavy sets, or do you just go right to it if your already warmed up (say if you already did an exercise and your chest is ready)

What I'll do when I'm training a bodypart is to do at least one very light set for high reps. This is usually the first set of the first exercise I am doing. Take my chest training, for example. If I am starting with the barbell bench press, I will do one light set for 15-20 reps. For my next set, I will use a moderate weight for 10-12 reps. For my third set, I will do an even heavier set for 6-8 reps and then another heavy set. For my next exercise, I will do my first set with a moderately heavy weight for 10 reps. The reason I do this moderate set is because I need to get my body in the groove and get set up for the heavy weight. For the next 2 sets, I will go very heavy for 6-8 reps. That's the reason I do it that way.

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by asianboy101

Hi John
do u believe that u have to squat to get big arms?

thx champ

No, not really. I think squats are a great exercise and the upper body benefits from doing heavy squats. It will build the back more from supporting the weight. However, I don't think you need to do squats to build bigger arms. There are many guys out there who don't do legs at all and they just train upper body and they have huge arms. I think you should definitely squat but it won't make a big difference in the arms.

[al_77]

Originally Posted by Natural_O

What I'll do when I'm training a bodypart is to do at least one very light set for high reps. This is usually the first set of the first exercise I am doing. Take my chest training, for example. If I am starting with the barbell bench press, I will do one light set for 15-20 reps. For my next set, I will use a moderate weight for 10-12 reps. For my third set, I will do an even heavier set for 6-8 reps and then another heavy set. For my next exercise, I will do my first set with a moderately heavy weight for 10 reps. The reason I do this moderate set is because I need to get my body in the groove and get set up for the heavy weight. For the next 2 sets, I will go very heavy for 6-8 reps. That's the reason I do it that way.

so your moderate set isn't anywhere near failure right? i'll just say you do 2 sets then

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by al_77

so your moderate set isn't anywhere near failure right? i'll just say you do 2 sets then

Yes, for example, if I am doing 3 sets of incline dumbbell presses for the chest, I will use the 100 pound dumbbells for the first set for 10-12 reps, for the 2nd and 3rd sets, I will grab the 120's and go for 6-8 reps. I consider it 3 sets but it's just the last 2 sets that are taken to failure.

[al_77]

Originally Posted by Natural_O

Yes, for example, if I am doing 3 sets of incline dumbbell presses for the chest, I will use the 100 pound dumbbells for the first set for 10-12 reps, for the 2nd and 3rd sets, I will grab the 120's and go for 6-8 reps. I consider it 3 sets but it's just the last 2 sets that are taken to failure.

ah. so when you said you do like 10-12 sets for big muscle groups, how many of those are actual working (failure) sets? Is it always going to be 2 sets?

Sorry bout all the questions man can't blame asking mr. natural o

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by al_77

ah. so when you said you do like 10-12 sets for big muscle groups, how many of those are actual working (failure) sets? Is it always going to be 2 sets?

Sorry bout all the questions man can't blame asking mr. natural o

Yes, the only sets I don't count are the light sets at the beginning of the workout that warm-up the muscle. The moderately heavy and heavy sets are all counted. It's not like the moderately heavy sets don't do anything. They are still contributing to the workout and to muscle growth.

[wrestlerguy]

Originally Posted by Natural_O

Yes, the only sets I don't count are the light sets at the beginning of the workout that warm-up the muscle. The moderately heavy and heavy sets are all counted. It's not like the moderately heavy sets don't do anything. They are still contributing to the workout and to muscle growth.

could I ask what the moderate sets due for muscle growth? i thought it was just good for the preparation

[Bat_Man]

Hey John,
Ive done alot of research on supplementation. My goal is to put on 10-15 pound in the next year. However, seeing that money is an issue, Ive narrowed down my supplementation to the most cost effective supplements i can find (about 50-55$/month). This is what Ive come up with, can you let me know if I should change the order of anything or if i am missing something. Thanks

Meal 1:
4 liver tabs
1 multi-vitamin (regular centrum)
500 mg vitamin C

Meal 2:
1 fish oil
500 mg glucosamine

Meal 3:
4 liver tabs
1 vitamin B-Complex

Meal 4:
1 fish oil

Meal 5: Pre-workout
4 liver tabs

15 minutes pre-workout
1 g beta alanine

Meal 6: Post Workout Shake
500 mg Vitamin C
30g whey protein
50g maltodextrine
5 grams Creatine

Meal 7: Post Workout Meal
1 fish oil
500 mg glucosamine

[dballer]

What are your thoughts on weight training twice a day? would this enable awsome muscle gains?

[al_77]

Originally Posted by Natural_O

Yes, the only sets I don't count are the light sets at the beginning of the workout that warm-up the muscle. The moderately heavy and heavy sets are all counted. It's not like the moderately heavy sets don't do anything. They are still contributing to the workout and to muscle growth.

How moderate is "moderate?" say for example my worksets (heavy) ones will be 195lbsx7, the the last set will be 195lbsx6. How heavy would the moderate set be?

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by wrestlerguy

could I ask what the moderate sets due for muscle growth? i thought it was just good for the preparation

No, not really. When you are doing a set with a weight that only allows for 6-10 reps, you are still contributing to muscle growth. Obviously, the first set that is very light (15-20 reps) is designed to warm-up the muscles and joints but the moderately heavy and heavy sets will work the muscles and make them grow.

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by Bat_Man

Hey John,
Ive done alot of research on supplementation. My goal is to put on 10-15 pound in the next year. However, seeing that money is an issue, Ive narrowed down my supplementation to the most cost effective supplements i can find (about 50-55$/month). This is what Ive come up with, can you let me know if I should change the order of anything or if i am missing something. Thanks

Meal 1:
4 liver tabs
1 multi-vitamin (regular centrum)
500 mg vitamin C

Meal 2:
1 fish oil
500 mg glucosamine

Meal 3:
4 liver tabs
1 vitamin B-Complex

Meal 4:
1 fish oil

Meal 5: Pre-workout
4 liver tabs

15 minutes pre-workout
1 g beta alanine

Meal 6: Post Workout Shake
500 mg Vitamin C
30g whey protein
50g maltodextrine
5 grams Creatine

Meal 7: Post Workout Meal
1 fish oil
500 mg glucosamine

I would invest in high potency multi vitamin and mineral supplement than Centrum. Look for the vitamin "packs" which have a bunch of pills instead of just one pill. You will get much more higher doses. The Centrum is very low dosage and not designed for athletes.
The Liver tablets are good. I don't take fish oil tablets but I do take 2 tablespoons of Udo's Oil which is like flaxseed oil. I also take a post workout drink (Optimum Nutrition's 2:1:1 Recovery, which is excellent!) instead of mixing whey protein, maltodextrine and creatine. Pre-workout, I will take whey isolate protein with creatine and Threshold from Optimum (beta-alanine). I also take another multi-vitamin at dinner along with extra B-Complex.

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by dballer

What are your thoughts on weight training twice a day? would this enable awsome muscle gains?

The Double Split Training is very intense and it's easy to overtrain for a natural bodybuilder doing this type of workout. However, if you can keep the workouts short and really eat consistently and get enough rest at night, it can work for short periods of time (6-8 weeks). One of my friends did a double split routine for his last contest and he loved it.

The best way to do it is to train a big bodypart (chest, back) in the morning and then wait at least 6 hours until you come back and train 1-2 smaller bodyparts (triceps, abs, for example). Keep the workouts to one hour or less so you don't overtrain. Make sure you eat carbs before both workouts so you will have the energy to get through both workouts without overtraining. Also, it's very important that you get plenty of sleep each night to recover.

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by al_77

How moderate is "moderate?" say for example my worksets (heavy) ones will be 195lbsx7, the the last set will be 195lbsx6. How heavy would the moderate set be?

It's hard to say, it depends on what exercise you are using for that weight. If it was bench press, I would say a weight that you could do 8-10 reps with, maybe 165 pounds. When I was benching heavier a couple years ago, I would do my first set with 135 for 15 reps, then do 225 for 10 reps, then 275 for 8 reps and finally 315 for two sets of 6 reps. I would consider that 4 sets.
On squats, I would start with 135 for 12-15 reps, then 225 for 10-12 reps, then 315 for 10 reps, 365 for 8 reps and 405 for 2 sets of 6 reps. 5 sets total because I wouldn't count the first set.

[dballer]

Originally Posted by Natural_O

The Double Split Training is very intense and it's easy to overtrain for a natural bodybuilder doing this type of workout. However, if you can keep the workouts short and really eat consistently and get enough rest at night, it can work for short periods of time (6-8 weeks). One of my friends did a double split routine for his last contest and he loved it.

The best way to do it is to train a big bodypart (chest, back) in the morning and then wait at least 6 hours until you come back and train 1-2 smaller bodyparts (triceps, abs, for example). Keep the workouts to one hour or less so you don't overtrain. Make sure you eat carbs before both workouts so you will have the energy to get through both workouts without overtraining. Also, it's very important that you get plenty of sleep each night to recover.

How many Times a week do you think each bodypart should be hit in a double Split?

Also, what do you think is the best way to bring up a weak bodypart?

My Chest is lagging Far behind the rest of my bodyparts in strength and Size,
i Can barbell Row 300 pounds, but can only bench press 210lbs.
what do you think is the best way to bring up my Chest Strength and Size

[al_77]

Originally Posted by Natural_O

It's hard to say, it depends on what exercise you are using for that weight. If it was bench press, I would say a weight that you could do 8-10 reps with, maybe 165 pounds. When I was benching heavier a couple years ago, I would do my first set with 135 for 15 reps, then do 225 for 10 reps, then 275 for 8 reps and finally 315 for two sets of 6 reps. I would consider that 4 sets.
On squats, I would start with 135 for 12-15 reps, then 225 for 10-12 reps, then 315 for 10 reps, 365 for 8 reps and 405 for 2 sets of 6 reps. 5 sets total because I wouldn't count the first set.

ah thing is, if I did 165x8-10, that would be heavy enough to affect the next to heavy sets :/ I usually just put on like 170 a did only 3-5 reps just because it was a set to get used to heavy weight, doing 8-10 reps would probably fatique me a little bit

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by al_77

ah thing is, if I did 165x8-10, that would be heavy enough to affect the next to heavy sets :/ I usually just put on like 170 a did only 3-5 reps just because it was a set to get used to heavy weight, doing 8-10 reps would probably fatique me a little bit

Yeah, you could do it that way too. That's the way Skip LaCour and Jeff Willett trained with AST. They would just warm up and leave everything to the last heavy set or two. I believe that the moderate sets also contribute to muscle growth. I was always interested in growing the muscles, not just seeing how heavy I could go for a set or two each exercise. When Arnold and Lee Haney trained, they would train the whole workout, not just 1 or 2 sets. Every set you do (except for the very light sets used to warm up the tendons, muscles and joints) contributes to muscle growth. Plus, as you get stronger, you can increase the weight on the moderately heavy sets too. Don't be afraid of working in the gym instead of being very conservative with your strength for 1-2 sets. I would recommend doing that set with 165 for 8 reps and then going heavy with 195 for 5-6 reps. If you keep doing that, you are eventually going to get stronger on every set, the 165 sets and the 195 sets. Your body won't break apart if you push it, it will instead get stronger and bigger. Don't be afraid to work hard in the gym, that's what you're there for!

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by dballer

How many Times a week do you think each bodypart should be hit in a double Split?

Also, what do you think is the best way to bring up a weak bodypart?

My Chest is lagging Far behind the rest of my bodyparts in strength and Size,
i Can barbell Row 300 pounds, but can only bench press 210lbs.
what do you think is the best way to bring up my Chest Strength and Size

It depends on your experience level and how much weight you are using on the double split. I would recommend a full rest day every 2-3 days if you are using the double split method. If you trained your body over 3 days (chest and back on day 1, legs on day 2, delts and arms on day 3) you should take a day off after the third day.

That's unusual that your back is so much stronger than your chest. Usually, it's the other way around. Your weaker bench press might be due to weak triceps and/or weak front delts. Keep pushing hard in your workout with 5-8 reps and substitute dumbbells for flat bench and incline bench every other workout to give your body some variety. Also, make sure you do flyes (either flat or incline) and dumbbell pull-overs each workout and don't just do pressing movements to build up your chest. If you have stronger triceps, you will have better lockout with your bench press. The shoulders helps at the beginning of the movement.

[al_77]

Originally Posted by Natural_O

Yeah, you could do it that way too. That's the way Skip LaCour and Jeff Willett trained with AST. They would just warm up and leave everything to the last heavy set or two. I believe that the moderate sets also contribute to muscle growth. I was always interested in growing the muscles, not just seeing how heavy I could go for a set or two each exercise. When Arnold and Lee Haney trained, they would train the whole workout, not just 1 or 2 sets. Every set you do (except for the very light sets used to warm up the tendons, muscles and joints) contributes to muscle growth. Plus, as you get stronger, you can increase the weight on the moderately heavy sets too. Don't be afraid of working in the gym instead of being very conservative with your strength for 1-2 sets. I would recommend doing that set with 165 for 8 reps and then going heavy with 195 for 5-6 reps. If you keep doing that, you are eventually going to get stronger on every set, the 165 sets and the 195 sets. Your body won't break apart if you push it, it will instead get stronger and bigger. Don't be afraid to work hard in the gym, that's what you're there for!

alright, i'll try this! how much "reps" should I leave in the tank for the moderate set?

edit: do you know if skip la cour is natural?

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by al_77

alright, i'll try this! how much "reps" should I leave in the tank for the moderate set?

edit: do you know if skip la cour is natural?

Do about 8-10 reps on the moderate sets and then do 6-8 reps on the real heavy sets that you take to failure. Don't go to failure on the moderately heavy sets.

Skip says he is natural.

[al_77]

Originally Posted by Natural_O

Do about 8-10 reps on the moderate sets and then do 6-8 reps on the real heavy sets that you take to failure. Don't go to failure on the moderately heavy sets.

Skip says he is natural.

okay thanks. BTW, is doing heavy deadlifts and squats every week too much? I do them once a week yes, and I PR almost everytime, but they are pretty fatiguing. I heard its good to do deadlifts once every 2 weeks as well

[Natural_O]

Originally Posted by al_77

okay thanks. BTW, is doing heavy deadlifts and squats every week too much? I do them once a week yes, and I PR almost everytime, but they are pretty fatiguing. I heard its good to do deadlifts once every 2 weeks as well

I did heavy squats and deadlifts each week when I was trying to get big but it was for sets of 6. I never (or very rarely) did those exercises for just one rep to see how much I could lift. I was more concerned with building the size and strength by doing sets of 6-8 reps but I would go heavy each week. On the deadlifts, I would switch it up from deadlifts off the floor to deadlifts in the rack (just below knee level).

[marshallbros]

Originally Posted by Natural_O

Hey Guys, I saw you were talking about me so I thought I would jump in here. I appreciate the comments about how big I am. That is the natural bodybuilder's ultimate compliment, to be big enough that some people question whether you are natural or not.

I started bodybuilding at 14 years old and I was pretty skinny, 135 pounds at 5'8". I didn't have great genetics for putting muscle on very quickly as some bodybuilders do. I had a good frame (wide shoulders, big ribcage, etc) but it took me YEARS before I had built enough mass. I started competing at 16 years old and I got sort of addicted to competing in bodybuilding competitions for the next few years. I entered 10 teenage contests between the ages of 16-19 years old. The biggest I got as a teenager was about 185 pounds and I would compete at around 170-175 pounds.

When I reached my 20th birthday, I was no longer eligible to compete as a teenager so I decided to take at least a year off to get bigger. My goal when I started bodybuilding was to win the Mr. Universe and be featured in the magazines like the bodybuilders I admired when I was growing up (Arnold, Franco, Frank Zane, Robby Robinson, Lou Ferrigno, Mike Mentzer and Kal Szkalak). I wanted to bulk up to at least 100 pounds heavier than when I started bodybuilding and then work my way up the ladder from the Mr. Illinois to the Mr. Midwest to the Mr. America to the Mr. Universe.

Within 6 months after my last teenage contest, my bodyweight shot up to 205 pounds. I think this was a reaction to finally being off my pre-contest diet for awhile and letting my body grow. When I was competing so much as a teen, I was dieting every 3-4 months and I never gave myself time to grow and get big.

I thought for sure I would be 230 in another six months. Unfortunately, my body reached a sticking point and I couldn't get bigger no matter what I did. I started bulking up by eating even more food than I was eating previously. I had to eat so much food to get bigger, it was unbelievable! I actually got tired of eating so much. After awhile, it started to work. I was able to train heavier and heavier every week using the basic exercises. The more calories I ate, the more weight I was able to lift at the gym. I increased my strength by lifting really heavy. For my last couple sets, I would shoot for 3 reps on my own and have my training partner give me another 2-3 forced reps. This really helped to get me stronger (and eventually, bigger).

After six months of this bulking up program, I weighed 230 pounds. I was pretty bulky, believe me. I looked more like a football player than a bodybuilder but by doing this, I had the mass I needed to compete over 200 pounds. So, that's how I did it. It was a lot of eating good bodybuilding foods along with training heavy using the basic execises four days a week. I trained chest, delts, triceps and calves on Monday and Thursday and legs, back and biceps on Tuesday and Friday. I covered this routine in my book "Natural Bodybuilding" and in my new DVD, "Natural Bodybuilding Seminar and Competitions". Incidently, my new DVD features not only a 90 minute seminar on training and nutrition but also most of the natural bodybuilding competitions I competed in from 1991 to 2004. This is very interesting as you will be able to see the progress I make from each year in the competitions. I also have a commentary option on the DVD so you can listen to my thoughts on how I prepared for each show, what went right and what went wrong, what happened behind the scenes, etc.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to express my thoughts!

i do think john is natural and i actually got his book- i want to compete in the british NPA one day as a natural and i really think i can compete at 220lbs- i have a long way to go, but my arms at their biggest have been 21" and so that proves to me that john could definatly be a natural! - type john hanssen on youtube. i posted a vid of him from 1992!