Organic or no.....??

[ExtremistPullup]

Do pesticides in foods cause cancer?:

"Pesticides and herbicides can be toxic when used improperly in industrial, agricultural, or other occupational settings. Although vegetables and fruits sometimes contain low levels of these chemicals, overwhelming scientific evidence supports the overall health benefits and cancer-protective effects of eating vegetables and fruits. At present there is no evidence that residues of pesticides and herbicides at the low doses found in foods increase the risk of cancer, but fruits and vegetables should be washed thoroughly before eating. "

----American Cancer Society

Are foods labeled "organic" more effective in lowering cancer risk?

The term organic is popularly used to designate plant foods grown without pesticides and genetic modifications. At this time, no research exists to demonstrate whether such foods are more effective in reducing cancer risk than are similar foods produced by other farming methods.

----American Cancer Society

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/co...and_Cancer.asp

[HealthyGains]

LOL------^

The same society that supported the food pyramid until 2005...
Yeh, I'll pass on bureaucratic agency spoon feeding me health-related suggestions.

They also say not to eat too much red meat, yet in Sardinia Italy the average life expectancy is among the highest in the world. The main meat they consume? Lamb. Lamb has more conjugated linoleic acid than any other meat.

[gonna_be_big]

Originally Posted by HealthyGains

LOL------^

The same society that supported the food pyramid until 2005...
Yeh, I'll pass on bureaucratic agency spoon feeding me health-related suggestions.

They also say not to eat too much red meat, yet in Sardinia Italy the average life expectancy is among the highest in the world. The main meat they consume? Lamb. Lamb has more conjugated linoleic acid than any other meat.

alan aragon believed in the GI scale until science proved otherwise. but we all still listen to him!

and italians eat more then just lamb. your comparing two completely different cultures its stupid to even THINK about comparing them.

[HealthyGains]

Originally Posted by gonna_be_big

alan aragon believed in the GI scale until science proved otherwise. but we all still listen to him!

and italians eat more then just lamb. your comparing two completely different cultures its stupid to even THINK about comparing them.

It's not about the culture, i'm stating that the american cancer society isn't cutting edge.

They're about as useless as the FDA for "right now" information.

AKA, "red meat can cause this, but research shows that red meat can also prevent it".

It just doesn't work. Period. Lamb is red meat.

[Halfway]

3 Supported by the UK Food Standards Agency (PAU221).

http://www.food.gov.uk/foodindustry/...n/Codexbranch/

I wouldn't put too much faith in anything they say, given their motivations are hardly secret.

[gonna_be_big]

Originally Posted by HealthyGains

It's not about the culture, i'm stating that the american cancer society isn't cutting edge.

They're about as useless as the FDA for "right now" information.

AKA, "red meat can cause this, but research shows that red meat can also prevent it".

It just doesn't work. Period. Lamb is red meat.

the problem is TOO MUCH red meat.. especially considering in the US especially the way they raise their animals is pretty poor so theres a huge imbalance of omega-6's... they arent saying DONT eat red meat.. just to slow down on the consumption!

i saw a study that said that red meat is a contributing factor to heart disease etc. its not a direct cause of it but it doesnt help when you add in the rest of the stereotypical american diet!

thats why culture IS the issue because italians eat BETTER.. plenty of olive oil etc etc to help balance out the diet.

the fact that the cancer society stopped supporting the food pyramid 5 years ago shows they are at least TRYING to help support a healthy lifestyle. you cant judge them for what they were doing five YEARS ago!!

[hankst]

All of you "pro organics" people may want to take a look at Penn & Teller's Bull**** episode about organic food. Every "positive" aspect mentioned in this thread was debunked by scientific studies and common sense.

[HealthyGains]

Originally Posted by hankst

All of you "pro organics" people may want to take a look at Penn & Teller's Bull**** episode about organic food. Every "positive" aspect mentioned in this thread was debunked by scientific studies and common sense.

Except that organic grass fed beef doesn't have the problems listed in the post above yours... less sat fat, lots of omega-3... etc etc.

Organic = normal
Stop acting like organics are the enemy, your grandparents ate organic.

Organic foods have never been shown to be worse, only better or the same, even in biased tests. When it comes to meat, there is no comparison.

Also, to the guy way above, I eat organic / grass fed meat and tons and tons of olive oil.
Apparently the American Cancer society isn't big on exceptions, saying sorry for past mis-info, or recommending people not eat 'regular' red meat.

Also, if organic wasn't better, why are obama's kids being fed organic, and his wife has an organic garden at the whitehouse... meanwhile he's appointing ex-monsanto employees for agri positions. The best for him and his family, but telling you that bull**** is just as good.

[KLMARB]

Originally Posted by gonna_be_big

the problem is TOO MUCH red meat.. especially considering in the US especially the way they raise their animals is pretty poor so theres a huge imbalance of omega-6's... they arent saying DONT eat red meat.. just to slow down on the consumption!

i saw a study that said that red meat is a contributing factor to heart disease etc. its not a direct cause of it but it doesnt help when you add in the rest of the stereotypical american diet!

thats why culture IS the issue because italians eat BETTER.. plenty of olive oil etc etc to help balance out the diet.

the fact that the cancer society stopped supporting the food pyramid 5 years ago shows they are at least TRYING to help support a healthy lifestyle. you cant judge them for what they were doing five YEARS ago!!

Pretty subjective post. Its hard to argue against a food that has been part of Man's evolutionary history for, literally, millions of years.

[joemauro]

Originally Posted by x Idealist x

Maybe so but, pro organic people argue that because they do not use chemicals there produce is richer in nutrients then produce without.

I can honestly say I've never heard this. The only argument I've heard FOR organic fruit/veg is that it's free of pesticides.

I'm not really sure where I stand, I typically buy whatever's the cheapest that still looks good. I will say though that I think I prefer organic bananas.

[gonna_be_big]

Originally Posted by KLMARB

Pretty subjective post. Its hard to argue against a food that has been part of Man's evolutionary history for, literally, millions of years.

the problem is - like the other person said to me - that the non-organic grown meat is high in omega 6's compared to grass fed cows. im not trying to debate that fact. i dont think this is a problem for me being a non-american but still.. couple the high omega 6 meat with the already high fat fried content of the average american diet and its a recipe for disaster!

its not a huge problem in other countries because first of the way animals are brought up and also the other food that people eat that balances out their diet.

[gonna_be_big]

Originally Posted by HealthyGains

Except that organic grass fed beef doesn't have the problems listed in the post above yours... less sat fat, lots of omega-3... etc etc.

Organic = normal
Stop acting like organics are the enemy, your grandparents ate organic.

Organic foods have never been shown to be worse, only better or the same, even in biased tests. When it comes to meat, there is no comparison.

Also, to the guy way above, I eat organic / grass fed meat and tons and tons of olive oil.
Apparently the American Cancer society isn't big on exceptions, saying sorry for past mis-info, or recommending people not eat 'regular' red meat.

Also, if organic wasn't better, why are obama's kids being fed organic, and his wife has an organic garden at the whitehouse... meanwhile he's appointing ex-monsanto employees for agri positions. The best for him and his family, but telling you that bull**** is just as good.

if you eat organic red meat and plenty of olive oil then nothing im saying really concerns you - its simply not an issue for you!

science is constantly being reformed and one study might show something one day - then another comes along and proves that it was wrong.. it happens. theres ZERO reason for the cancer association to apologise and if you feel you need one maybe you should send them an e-mail?

and maybe they are being fed organic because obamas wife feels strongly towards it?? your not obama so dont go speculating into his life and why he does anything - because nobody knows the truth and we all know what assumptions do :P

now if you REALLY think that obama knows organic is best - wouldnt he try push it onto everyone??

anyway we arent really developing a constructive conversation so take it ez mate!

[valby]

Just got this in my inbox
http://www.susanjanemurray.com/fuse/...009/m/8/id/28/

This was interesting to, another angle I hadn't thought of-

http://pangaea.org/street_children/americas/AP7.htm

[TaoistWarrior]

Originally Posted by valby

Just got this in my inbox
http://www.susanjanemurray.com/fuse/...009/m/8/id/28/

This was interesting to, another angle I hadn't thought of-

http://pangaea.org/street_children/americas/AP7.htm

Here's a post I found in another forum on bb.com:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=117514571

Linking nitrates (food fertilizers/preservatives) to rising rates of neurological disease. Interesting read.

[gonna_be_big]

Originally Posted by TaoistWarrior

Here's a post I found in another forum on bb.com:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=117514571

Linking nitrates (food fertilizers/preservatives) to rising rates of neurological disease. Interesting read.

did you read no-hypes rebuttals as well?

[TheHybrid]

I see a lot of pro organic posts, but no studies/actual science to back them up.... jus sayin'

[PBanonymous]

Originally Posted by determined4000

Does anyone grow their own produce?
And if so what is the end cost in comparison to regular store-bought produce and to organic store-bought produce?
I am assuming taste is superior due to freshness?

We grow our own produce. Taste does not even compare to store bought. Plus, I know what I'm eating. Where it came from. And what is in it (and on it). Zucchini. Watermelon. Tomatoes. Grapes. Raspberries. Apples. Rhubarb. Pumpkin. Strawberries. Green peppers (which turn into Red peppers if you leave them on the vine). Plums. Cherries.

My father does all the hard work (planting and fertilizing). Overall the only cost is the initial seed purchase then the work that goes into it. (the fruit trees obviously don't require purchasing each year). I would say that each summer and fall my family brings in thousands of dollars of produce. Its quite impressive. We eat and eat and eat for Free Its truly a blessing.

[TaoistWarrior]

Originally Posted by gonna_be_big

did you read no-hypes rebuttals as well?

Yes. interesting reads also.

[KidnKorner]

Originally Posted by TaoistWarrior

As a seperate but related issue, it has always puzzled me how people scream bloody murder about how the government runs the tax system and how they might run healthcare, but they'll trust the FDA and USDA without a moment's hesitation.

Not to mention all the farmers who make money on their crops from federal subsidies. It's ok to subsidize crops, us mail, and a slew of other things but the government better keep their hands off on the medical front.

[gonna_be_big]

Originally Posted by TaoistWarrior

Yes. interesting reads also.

i agree.. i like how theres smart people on both side of the argument so people can read all the information presented and choose which side they want to be on, rather then being bullied by one side to be with them.

Originally Posted by TheHybrid

I see a lot of pro organic posts, but no studies/actual science to back them up.... jus sayin'

theres been a few studies.. a couple in favour of organic foods and one or two that say that organic foods are on par with GMO foods. they have never been shown to be worse though.

Originally Posted by mortician83

We grow our own produce. Taste does not even compare to store bought. Plus, I know what I'm eating. Where it came from. And what is in it (and on it). Zucchini. Watermelon. Tomatoes. Grapes. Raspberries. Apples. Rhubarb. Pumpkin. Strawberries. Green peppers (which turn into Red peppers if you leave them on the vine). Plums. Cherries.

My father does all the hard work (planting and fertilizing). Overall the only cost is the initial seed purchase then the work that goes into it. (the fruit trees obviously don't require purchasing each year). I would say that each summer and fall my family brings in thousands of dollars of produce. Its quite impressive. We eat and eat and eat for Free Its truly a blessing.

we just built a small vege patch in our backyard and will be turning another larger part of the backyard for more vegetables. we dont have nearly what you do but its good knowing it came FRESH from your own backyard!!

[cross66]

Originally Posted by HealthyGains

However:
Certain organic foods ARE A WASTE OF MONEY, but not for the reasons you're thinking.
Broccoli is sprayed very very little as it has many natural immunities. Pesticides don't breach the outer wall of bananas so there is little to gain from the price difference.

Bananas and avocados, are said to offer little gain from buying organic because of the thick skin, but along with grapes I have been highly allergic to them my entire life. This summer I realized that I can eat them if I buy organic. So, regardless of what research says it is worth buying organic.

[valby]

Originally Posted by gonna_be_big

we just built a small vege patch in our backyard and will be turning another larger part of the backyard for more vegetables. we dont have nearly what you do but its good knowing it came FRESH from your own backyard!!

]

I am definitely going to get my act into gear this Spring and plant a vege patch. I just have to keep my dogs out of it. The little buggers love nothing more than digging up veges and carting them around. I caught them fighting over a red pepper the other day, they nicked from my groceries when I was unpacking LOL.

[gonna_be_big]

Originally Posted by valby

]

I am definitely going to get my act into gear this Spring and plant a vege patch. I just have to keep my dogs out of it. The little buggers love nothing more than digging up veges and carting them around. I caught them fighting over a red pepper the other day, they nicked from my groceries when I was unpacking LOL.

see if you can put a little fence around it or something

[taffer]

Originally Posted by hankst

All of you "pro organics" people may want to take a look at Penn & Teller's Bull**** episode about organic food. Every "positive" aspect mentioned in this thread was debunked by scientific studies and common sense.

Yeah i saw that episode, very good one. Those guys always do good research (well their research team does anyway!)

[MadeUnderground]

Well, I eat local first. I try to support local farmers and I know it's fresh.

I get most of my veggies, dairy products (eggs, cottage cheese, milk, yogurt, butter) local.

Everything else is usually organic, for the taste and because they usually treat the animals better.
Plus if I can avoid the toxins, I will.

[TaoistWarrior]

Originally Posted by MadeUnderground

Well, I eat local first. I try to support local farmers and I know it's fresh.

I get most of my veggies, dairy products (eggs, cottage cheese, milk, yogurt, butter) local.

Everything else is usually organic, for the taste and because they usually treat the animals better.
Plus if I can avoid the toxins, I will.

You're a good man charlie brown. Support local farms/industry, try to minimize toxin ingestion, and encourage humane treatment of livestock. I think you have summed up most of the cogent points from the pro argument.

[Richard24]

Take a look at this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94d-KVorSHM

[CashmerePanda]

I make an effort to get organic, whenever possible. Harder to do when you live on a campus, buy I do what I can with my situation.

There are also certain foods which I almost exclusively buy organic, ie. butter and eggs.


This is quite an interesting read:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...ting_paul_chek

(minimal broscience )

[Sash]

I've been eating organic for 25 years, before it was cool, our family was also into permaculture, biodynamics, self-sustainability etc.

There is no point to the OP's study, as mentioned by several people, nutrition has very little to do with the main reason people by organic - which is avoidance of toxins.