smj5351, this is for you bud - Page 6

ButteryPancakes · 03-09-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ButteryPancakes

Again smj's beef is with God not me. According to James 2:
8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself,"[a] you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery,"[b] also said, "Do not murder."[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

People are not stupid. They know that if the ultimate consequence of doing wrong is "Don't worry about it. Here's the same reward that the righteous receive, even though you rejected My Son." then they will live their lives as they see fit and God can go screw Himself for all they care. He would be a toothless lion, a paper tiger, and no God at all.

But I'm not interested in whether or not hell is eternal punishment or not. It's this notion that all mankind will be saved. I can find several instances in the Bible where Jesus was asked point blank "What must I do to inherit eternal life?" or "What must I do to be saved?" I don't see Him ever saying "Everyone will be saved whether they believe in Me or not". Not once. What I do see is this:
Matthew 19:17 If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." (by smj's reasoning: if you want to enter life, disobey the commandments works too. If so, why even say it?)

Luke 10
26"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

27He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'[c]; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[d]"

28"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." (By smj's reasoning, "Don't do this and you will live also." This makes the Commandments of God irrelevant.)

Mark 16:
15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved...(By smj's reasoning: "Whoever doesn't believe and isn't baptized will also be saved." So this was busy work for the disciples?)

John 10:9:
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.(By smj's reasoning: "I am the gate, but whoever enters through a window? backdoor? mouse hole? will also be saved. So I'm not really THE gate, I just said that to confuse things.")

Do you have a response to this SMJ?

resurrected · 03-09-2007, 11:21 AM

Well I have doing quite a bit of thinking lately. I actually can do this now I am not involved in a ministry. Instead of being told and fed stuff, I can think for me.
I have come to many concusions, such as David is right, It was my voice i was hearing. I realize that I may be like many others who want to hear God speak to them , they subconscuily(SP) speak to them selves with out realizing it.
I also have come to the concusion, ( Adil will ove these next few ones), I have searched for God for over 40 years and have never found him. Never felt his prescence of Love as so many speak of. I feel perhaps he has given up on me.
I feel that a God who demands sacrifice for his pleasure, who took first born children if the doors were not painted red with BLOOD, and allowed his angel to sin, Let me continue on that one. If Lucifer was an angel, I thought angels did not think fo themselves and were Gods servants. Therefore why did lucifer think for himself? And,..... Why would a father who loves their children, place them in harms way and test them and if they fail the test, send them to Hell? I love you son, but you need to go to hell, although I did create you, I don't love you any more, good bye. Test, I never test my kids, If they do wrong do I punish them, Of course, but send to an eternal death called hell. That is too unloving to me.
God seems to enjoy killing in his name. Look at the old testament and see all the deaths and blood shed in his name. I thought we were all brothers and sisters under God. Guess i was wrong there too.
To make this short, I have decided to stop searching for God and decide he may not exist. I need to keep thinking on this one. ( See adil I told you would love this one), From now on I think it is best to not do any more harm on these type of threads. I will probably back out of them.
Thanks for all the info dave and others, It actually helped me think more clearly. See an old person as myslef can still learn something.

ERCVGII · 03-09-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaper

No, all you have to do is accept Jesus and thats it

But he's God dude, why would he limit himself to whine (no disrespect intended) about wishing no one would go to hell? He, we both agree, is all powerful, and CAN control who does and doesn't want us to go to hell, no?

Its not rocket science:

He can control every little single thing you do, and knows what you'll do, and what you do is exactly what HE intended you to do.

HE has the power to control who goes to heaven or hell. He doesn't need to
"hope no one goes to hell" as you put it. Just saying.

Quadrummer · 03-09-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCVGII

But he's God dude, why would he limit himself to whine (no disrespect intended) about wishing no one would go to hell? He, we both agree, is all powerful, and CAN control who does and doesn't want us to go to hell, no?

Its not rocket science:

He can control every little single thing you do, and knows what you'll do, and what you do is exactly what HE intended you to do.

HE has the power to control who goes to heaven or hell. He doesn't need to
"hope no one goes to hell" as you put it. Just saying.

You are right. God can do what he wants whenever he wants. But I believe God will keep his promice. You must believe in him in order to Live in his presense for eternity. If you do not, you go to hell. It's that simple. Its not like he made it hard or anything. You just need to believe and the rest will come in place.

Quadrummer · 03-09-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by resurrected

Well I have doing quite a bit of thinking lately. I actually can do this now I am not involved in a ministry. Instead of being told and fed stuff, I can think for me.
I have come to many concusions, such as David is right, It was my voice i was hearing. I realize that I may be like many others who want to hear God speak to them , they subconscuily(SP) speak to them selves with out realizing it.
I also have come to the concusion, ( Adil will ove these next few ones), I have searched for God for over 40 years and have never found him. Never felt his prescence of Love as so many speak of. I feel perhaps he has given up on me.
I feel that a God who demands sacrifice for his pleasure, who took first born children if the doors were not painted red with BLOOD, and allowed his angel to sin, Let me continue on that one. If Lucifer was an angel, I thought angels did not think fo themselves and were Gods servants. Therefore why did lucifer think for himself? And,..... Why would a father who loves their children, place them in harms way and test them and if they fail the test, send them to Hell? I love you son, but you need to go to hell, although I did create you, I don't love you any more, good bye. Test, I never test my kids, If they do wrong do I punish them, Of course, but send to an eternal death called hell. That is too unloving to me.
God seems to enjoy killing in his name. Look at the old testament and see all the deaths and blood shed in his name. I thought we were all brothers and sisters under God. Guess i was wrong there too.
To make this short, I have decided to stop searching for God and decide he may not exist. I need to keep thinking on this one. ( See adil I told you would love this one), From now on I think it is best to not do any more harm on these type of threads. I will probably back out of them.
Thanks for all the info dave and others, It actually helped me think more clearly. See an old person as myslef can still learn something.

It makes me sad to see this happen. I created this thread to prevent this from happening but there is nothing I can do to stop someones beliefs. Yes maybe you were wrong about all the times "God spoke to you" but that doesnt mean everytime was your own voice. How could you give up so easily. Dont give up brother. Stand strong in these times of hurt and God will be faithfull and show his face. Cry out to him and he will...

Quadrummer · 03-09-2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj5351

Guys, don't you see? It's so simple now! God loves us SOOOOO much, and He is SOOOO just, that He sends billions of people to burn in a furnace forever! Wow...that's amazing love! I guess Christ's sacrifice wasn't strong enough for all humanity, just the special ones. But hey, God has NO control over who is saved...it's COMPLETELY our choice! Isn't that sweet? God is such a good God, creating people for the sole purpose of burning them in fire for eternity!

It makes so much sense, I can't believe I never thought about it before! Justice isn't punishing someone to fit their crime: justice is inflating that punishment infinitely in the worst way possible!

God is so loving and just, that He's the most evil being in existence! Torturing someone for eternity is so loving and just, that it's the most evil thing imaginable...but hey, I know I DEFINITELY deserve to be tortured for all eternity...I'm a sinner! We ALL deserve to be tortured for eternity...but luckily there's a way out! Wow! And the ones who go to hell totally CHOSE it (even if they didn't realize it).

God is so loving that he abandons billions of people for all eternity.

Whoa, I'm about to speak in tongues!

WHeyEEHehEEHehheHHE eMeMemeMEME SHABBALHLLALALALAlhahHHALhA pRROrorororOROROroRlrloeeooeeoeooeoememneneemMENEn emMEm!

Wow can you guys please translate that for me?

As for you smj, you are just starting to get annoying. Do you have nothing to say for yourself anymore? You wont answer us on the scripture we have presented before you and if you are right, proove us wrong. I am ready to hear what you have to say. I have an open mind but at this point, I see no proof to your claims because of the scripture that I have presented before you. Proove me wrong...

wanttobearnold · 03-09-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj5351

Guys, don't you see? It's so simple now! God loves us SOOOOO much, and He is SOOOO just, that He sends billions of people to burn in a furnace forever! Wow...that's amazing love! I guess Christ's sacrifice wasn't strong enough for all humanity, just the special ones. But hey, God has NO control over who is saved...it's COMPLETELY our choice! Isn't that sweet? God is such a good God, creating people for the sole purpose of burning them in fire for eternity!

It makes so much sense, I can't believe I never thought about it before! Justice isn't punishing someone to fit their crime: justice is inflating that punishment infinitely in the worst way possible!

God is so loving and just, that He's the most evil being in existence! Torturing someone for eternity is so loving and just, that it's the most evil thing imaginable...but hey, I know I DEFINITELY deserve to be tortured for all eternity...I'm a sinner! We ALL deserve to be tortured for eternity...but luckily there's a way out! Wow! And the ones who go to hell totally CHOSE it (even if they didn't realize it).

God is so loving that he abandons billions of people for all eternity.

Whoa, I'm about to speak in tongues!

WHeyEEHehEEHehheHHE eMeMemeMEME SHABBALHLLALALALAlhahHHALhA pRROrorororOROROroRlrloeeooeeoeooeoememneneemMENEn emMEm!

Wow can you guys please translate that for me?

Just a few questions. You talk about God sending people to burn in a furnace forever. Can you give me the passages that you say christians use to prove this? Also can you give me the passages where it says that God tortures them when they are there?
Can you tell me how if God forced everyone to go to heaven, including those who didn't want to, how that is not equally evil?
If they "didn't realize" they had chose to go hell, please explain:

'since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse' Romans 1:19-20

And finally as a slight rebuke to myself and every other christian here and in America, some words that we all need to take to heart.

'You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.' Romans 2:1

Let us all remember these words before we say anything to anyone else.

Calhexas · 03-09-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceDragon

Monotheism. Thought it was obvious, but oh well.

No I thought that's what you meant, but I wanted to be sure before I replied.

How about since I don't take a **** all over your beliefs, you give me the respect enough not to do the same to mine. Sounds fair to me.

Calhexas · 03-09-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Hype

I'm atheist, but WTF kind of omnipotent God creates souls foreknowing they would end up in Hell? What kind of omnipotent God creates a supposed angel knowing he would turn into Satan?

Seriously, I may not have scripture, but this is LOGIC people.

God's omnipotence and omniscience (sp?) is subjective in my eyes. That is, people don't really know the scope of his knowledge and his presence, so they just attribute him the ability of all-knowing and ever present. I'm not so sure that he is.

RelentlessChaos · 03-09-2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanttobearnold

Just a few questions. You talk about God sending people to burn in a furnace forever. Can you give me the passages that you say christians use to prove this? Also can you give me the passages where it says that God tortures them when they are there?
Can you tell me how if God forced everyone to go to heaven, including those who didn't want to, how that is not equally evil?
If they "didn't realize" they had chose to go hell, please explain:

'since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse' Romans 1:19-20

And finally as a slight rebuke to myself and every other christian here and in America, some words that we all need to take to heart.

'You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.' Romans 2:1

Let us all remember these words before we say anything to anyone else.

repped. i love romans 1:19-20

and good post.

Calhexas · 03-09-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj5351

Oh, I know! God loves me so much that He's willing to abandon me for eternity! Wow, I can feel the love! He sends me SOOO much love in my every day life; I only have problems, fears, inadequacies, flaws, and obstacles in life. And then, God is so loving that He abandons billions of people with ****ty lives for all eternity! Wow it makes so much sense. Thanks for explaining this to me, guys. I have seen the light.

Edit: I have to take an Economics exam now (Yes, at 8:15 PM). I hope you guys can explain some of this common sense stuff to everyone else! It makes so much sense, I can't believe I didn't see it before! Thanks again!

With each post you make, you sound as if you're stepping closer and closer to atheism.

Turn away from the darkside.

RelentlessChaos · 03-09-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadrummer

As for you smj, you are just starting to get annoying. Do you have nothing to say for yourself anymore? You wont answer us on the scripture we have presented before you and if you are right, proove us wrong. I am ready to hear what you have to say. I have an open mind but at this point, I see no proof to your claims because of the scripture that I have presented before you. Proove me wrong...

he thinks we have to prove him wrong. Dont you think that the majority of "Christians" believe in heaven and hell, so he should prove us wrong. Since hes stated were wrong in the first place.

Theres so many verses you have to peice together. Same with ^^ romans 1:19-20, and other verses, that talk about no excuse, and the age of accountability.

Theres so much, and yet smj tries to use a few verses he puts in his own words. there obviously nothing more we can say or do.

My main thing ive learned ON THIS SUBJECT is from theses verses.

1 Peter 2:6
For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

John 6:29
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

***Soooo seems like God tells us to believe in Christ, and follow him. Gods will is for us to believe in Christ Jesus, and try to be morally like him. A "Christian" IS a follower of Christ. What God commands.

Next, he tell us we wont perish/be put to shame, and we will have eternal life

He also tells us, not all will go to heaven. Seems like we are all to perish. But those who do believe wont perish. So doesnt matter if you just believe God, or dont even believe. Not everyone is going to heaven. Because by your actions youll show if your a follower of Christ. Are you? thats something between you and GOd. And he has made it clear that i must choose whom to serve. And the will of God is for me to serve him. And that is how i will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Any thoughts on how im wrong here? im 99.99999999 in fact, 100% sure Christ has given this message to me, throughout this past month. Soo i dont know how you could prove me wrong.

DigitalMuscle · 03-09-2007, 02:25 PM

You are aware that you read from a Bible that was put together by the Roman Catholics? Constatine!

CRyan64 · 03-09-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake24

God does not damn anyone unrepentant sinners damn themselves for not obeying God..If God forgave unrepentant sinners and allowed them into heavan..Heavan would not be a perfect place of holiness the sinners there would start a revolt against god..God is holy and sin cant be in his presence..He has already paid the penalty of sin for everyone with a sin offering..That sin offering is the blood of jesus christ..

If God wanted to 'cleanse' everyone of their sins, HE COULD!!!!!!!!!!!! He is omnipotent.

Quote:

On earth we have a prison system for those who refuse to obey civil law..Its the justice of the court systems to punish criminals if they let them all go the court systems would be unjust..

Everything is for a reason.

Quote:

The same with God he cant overlook sin he has to punish it and hell will be a place for those who decided they didnt want christ to pay there sin debt so they will not have the righteousness god requires and will perish and will pay the penalty of there sins in hell hell can be compared to an eternal prison system a place of eternal justice..Take a look at some people who have seen hell and heavan at (www.spiritlessons.com) and (www.insightsofgod.com)

You can't automatically accept these claims as truth.

Anyways, eternal Hell? How evil. No finite act desevers eternal punishment.

ESPECIALLY since the vast majority of these people are going to be disbelievers!

Everything is for a reason; we face difficulties as humans. I'm sure a loving God, who is omnipotent/omniscient, will understand this.

CRyan64 · 03-09-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by resurrected

Well I have doing quite a bit of thinking lately. I actually can do this now I am not involved in a ministry. Instead of being told and fed stuff, I can think for me.
I have come to many concusions, such as David is right, It was my voice i was hearing. I realize that I may be like many others who want to hear God speak to them , they subconscuily(SP) speak to them selves with out realizing it.
I also have come to the concusion, ( Adil will ove these next few ones), I have searched for God for over 40 years and have never found him. Never felt his prescence of Love as so many speak of. I feel perhaps he has given up on me.
I feel that a God who demands sacrifice for his pleasure, who took first born children if the doors were not painted red with BLOOD, and allowed his angel to sin, Let me continue on that one. If Lucifer was an angel, I thought angels did not think fo themselves and were Gods servants. Therefore why did lucifer think for himself? And,..... Why would a father who loves their children, place them in harms way and test them and if they fail the test, send them to Hell? I love you son, but you need to go to hell, although I did create you, I don't love you any more, good bye. Test, I never test my kids, If they do wrong do I punish them, Of course, but send to an eternal death called hell. That is too unloving to me.
God seems to enjoy killing in his name. Look at the old testament and see all the deaths and blood shed in his name. I thought we were all brothers and sisters under God. Guess i was wrong there too.
To make this short, I have decided to stop searching for God and decide he may not exist. I need to keep thinking on this one. ( See adil I told you would love this one), From now on I think it is best to not do any more harm on these type of threads. I will probably back out of them.
Thanks for all the info dave and others, It actually helped me think more clearly. See an old person as myslef can still learn something.

I did not want to see someone walk away from 'God', yet at the same time, i can not believe some of the things He does, as you've said. Some of the things Christians believe blow my mind away.

Quadrummer · 03-09-2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalMuscle

You are aware that you read from a Bible that was put together by the Roman Catholics? Constatine!

First of all, dont hijack a thread with a completly different topic. Second, i will answer this stupid claim that alot of people throw at me and others real quick and it will end here. If you want to discuss this further, start a new thread and let me know when you do this and I will discuss it further.

Once Rome became a Christian nation, Yes, Constantine ordered a counsel to define the bible and come up with a standard bible that all Churches will use. As Cchristians we call this the Rock. I dont know exactly what you are trying to proove through your post since it was so vague and unintelligent but know this: Before Constantine ordered this, there were already numerous copies of the bible in many different churches. Each church was using different books and each church had different books in which they taught from. Constitine decided to standardize this and ordered a huge counsel of bible scholars that knew the bible left and right to make a standard bible we could all use. They eliminated books that churches were using that had nothing to do with God and his purpose and they eliminated books that had no credibility. So what are you trying to claim? That the bible is not God's word? That the counsel changed things in the bible? What? because I for one believe that the bible I read is of God's doing so what are you trying to proove here?

CRyan64 · 03-09-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanttobearnold

'since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse' Romans 1:19-20

Wait, does this mean that everyone knows that God exists?

David77 · 03-09-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by resurrected

Well I have doing quite a bit of thinking lately. I actually can do this now I am not involved in a ministry. Instead of being told and fed stuff, I can think for me.
I have come to many concusions, such as David is right, It was my voice i was hearing. I realize that I may be like many others who want to hear God speak to them , they subconscuily(SP) speak to them selves with out realizing it.

I applaud your readiness to admit you were wrong. That takes great character and is a divine trait. I am always ready to throw out any of my beliefs if faced with new evidence, that's the attitude that any truth seeker must have.

Quote:

I also have come to the concusion, ( Adil will ove these next few ones), I have searched for God for over 40 years and have never found him. Never felt his prescence of Love as so many speak of. I feel perhaps he has given up on me.

That is the result of intellectual learning. Try as you might, no amount of superficial searches or pleading to God will make you find him. He must be found within, and in this age meditation is the best way to do that. If had been meditating those 40 years you would have ample proof of the love of God.

Quote:

To make this short, I have decided to stop searching for God and decide he may not exist. I need to keep thinking on this one. ( See adil I told you would love this one), From now on I think it is best to not do any more harm on these type of threads. I will probably back out of them.
Thanks for all the info dave and others, It actually helped me think more clearly. See an old person as myslef can still learn something.

That is the problem. You can't think yourself to have rock solid faith, it's only by experience that it can be had.

Good luck with whatever you do in the future. I don't like to see your search over, but I don't think it was leading anywhere in the first place, so it really doesn't matter.

Quadrummer · 03-09-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalMuscle

You are aware that you read from a Bible that was put together by the Roman Catholics? Constatine!

Here is all the information you could ever need about the Council of Nicaea:

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/nicaea.htm

RelentlessChaos · 03-09-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRyan64

I did not want to see someone walk away from 'God', yet at the same time, i can not believe some of the things He does, as you've said. Some of the things Christians believe blow my mind away.

because you dont know God. You dont have faith.

Luke 18:17
I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

Matthew 18:2-4
He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

It wont make sense to you, and youll never understand, until your willing to submit yourself. And if your going to blame God, and say hes unjust, then thats what you want.

But just remember what he did so we actually had the option. That seems just enough.

CRyan64 · 03-09-2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RelentlessChaos

because you dont know God. You dont have faith.

What makes the most sense to me over-rules faith. If not, you are being drawn in by scare tactics (Hell.)

Because, keep in mind that all religions require faith.
You have to take into consideration that your belief may not be true.

Like you said, you do not believe in "once saved always saved." In other words, one can be saved, but later fail to believe for one reason or another.

Take resurrected, for example. This man was Christian for 40 years. He is just one example of say thousands/millions that were "saved", but later on failed to believe.

Trust me, i knew God.

Quote:

Luke 18:17
I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

Matthew 18:2-4
He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Quote:

It wont make sense to you, and youll never understand, until your willing to submit yourself. And if your going to blame God, and say hes unjust, then thats what you want.

This brings me to a post i made earlier:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRyan64

Relentless:

Let's say there are 100 people.
All 100 are non-believers.
All 100 of these people have sincerely prayed something like this: "Lord, I pray to you that I find the Truth, and that your spirit would fulfill me."
They continued to seek the Truth.

65 become believers within a month.
35 remain disbelievers. (Also, these disbelievers remained in disbelief for their whole life.)

You say that God will only reveal Himself-- He will only act in those, who believe in Him.

How can these 35 disbelievers have a chance? They sincerely prayed to Jesus, yet still remained disbelievers.

What good is there in revealing the Truth and knowledge and understanding of the Bible, to those who already believe? Doesn't it make sense that He should reveal the Truth to those who do not believe, to save them? If disbelievers remain in disbelief, due to a misunderstanding in the Bible; or due to finding the teachings and happenings in the Bible absurd, how is this fair? They do not have a chance...

And along with this, I liked what David said,

"I am always ready to throw out any of my beliefs if faced with new evidence, that's the attitude that any truth seeker must have."

Quote:

But just remember what he did so we actually had the option. That seems just enough.

Not really; The least He could have done was make it known to all that He existed.

Lets be honest here, of the 5 billion that are not Christian, I am guessing that <0.1% would actually choose, without anything obstacles in their life, to live for the world, and reject God. 80 human years just does not over-rule eternal torment.

Which basically means: Of these 5 billion, only a few are Christian. Why? Because they do not believe, or they believe in a different religion.

ButteryPancakes · 03-09-2007, 04:08 PM

This is the last thing I have to say on this subject. (thunderous applause, "Finally he shuts up!") unless smj decides to answer my last post on this (disappointed "aww" :

from the crowd). You cannot be argued or debated into salvation.

Nobody should make up their mind about God without reading the Bible, praying to God for insight, and seeking Him on their own. No matter how hard we try, we humans can only paint a partial picture of God. He is so much more than anyone can describe.

Whether hell is real or not, eternal or just a cleansing fire is irrelevant to me as it is for all believers. It did not factor in my decision to believe at all. I was drawn to God by His Holy Spirit and by His redeeming love.

God has done more for me than I can ever repay:
He showed me the beauty that is in His creation.
He showed me the incalculable worth of every single human being.
He saved me from my self-destructive tendencies.
He cured me of addictions.
He healed my body.
He gave me a family.
He blesses me every day.
He guides me and protects me and those close to me.
He hears my prayers.

God doesn't play favorites. He will do this for anyone who will have Him, but He will not force Himself upon you because that is a violation of your free will.

"...I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live" - Deuteronomy 30:19

God bless.
I'm out.

ERCVGII · 03-11-2007, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadrummer

You are right. God can do what he wants whenever he wants. But I believe God will keep his promice. You must believe in him in order to Live in his presense for eternity. If you do not, you go to hell. It's that simple. Its not like he made it hard or anything. You just need to believe and the rest will come in place.

...and this is where we differ. I don't believe God put any promises to paper. When we look at our surroundings, his existence seems evident. I call it proof of his existence and mere speculation that we will be exalted into some sort of afterlife. I believe, and feel, just like you, the rest will come in place.

lebronjames · 04-20-2007, 12:31 AM

I know this thread is old, I just found it cause someone linked this thread.

I thought smj was at least intelligent enough to explain his views. He got shredded here, he had poor reasoning as his replies and called the OP's posts as "weak" when they're much more convincing.

And to add, the way he tries to mock Christians as brainwashed people, and that he's the only one right, no one ever refuted his argument...

I thought you were an alright kid, but you need to stop this arrogant "I'm 100% right" behaviour.

gecko2424 · 04-20-2007, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj5351

I know I'm right...I am literally 100% certain of it. No one has even come close to proving me wrong (much less even attempt to debate me). You want to know the reason I know I'm right?

I used to be brainwashed like all of you...I guess I was lucky because I was smart enough to see the truth in it. I guess I didn't plan on people being unwilling to read or discuss any of the information I posted. And when they do...they make a pitiful attempt that doesn't even accomplish anything and celebrate as if they have conquered something incredible. I know for a fact that I am right, and all of you are totally wrong...and I'm not just saying that. I am dead serious.

who de-brainwashed you? This wasn't inspired thought.

jsewell0203 · 04-20-2007, 07:16 AM

Many people reject the idea of eternal punishment, largely because they do not know God or the scriptures. They do not study his person, his character, his Words and they do not understand the nature of his justice or his love.

Many people hold onto bizarre theories about God and the Bible and call themselves Christian or profess faith in a Jesus they do not know.

In reality they are captivated by a faith of their own making that is no faith at all. Certainly an imagined faith can resemble the truth as scripture says when it speaks of those destined for eternal darkness 'having a form of godliness but denying its power'.

But such a faith is powerless to save anyone and it is not of God. We need to refute these kinds of teachings whenever we can.

The evil one has made every effort to cloud the minds of men and confuse the path to God so that men cannot find salvation. Many false doctrines and false teachings abound and will continue to be spread as the truth.

Eternal judgement, if that is what is determined to be my fate, will be just - if I refuse to accept the testimony of Jesus and obey his teachings in my lifetime. There is no other person or being in the entire span of human history, who taught as he taught and lived as he lived and died as he died. If I/we do not respond to his message, than what punishment can be great enough for us, for me?