Join the experiment! Losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time... myth or not?

[Artunsan]

Hi,

I'm sure everyone has heard this question before: Can you lose fat and gain muscle at the same time? You can find many different answers for this question.

Mostly you will hear this answer: "No, because you need calorie deficit to lose fat, you need calorie surplus to gain muscle bla bla bla". If you are thinking this as well, show me the proof please. When I ask for a proof, I usually get those answers: "Look at the pro bodybuilders, they always do cutting/bulking phases!" or "I tried it, it didn't work.", "Your body won't allow it because my bio teacher said so!". However, none of those are proofs.

Well, honestly I don't believe that this is not possible. I clearly managed to do this in my first three months. Then the gains slowed down. Probably the same thing happened to many guys out there. Then they argued: "Hey, it works at first. But then it stops and you have to bulk and cut!". Well, maybe it slowed down just because muscle gain slows down after a couple of months anyway. It doesn't have to do anything with the process of burning fat and gaining muscle at the same time.

Anyway, I don't want to discuss it here. Anyone could argue anything, but as long as I don't see any solid proof, I won't believe it (heck, I'm a scientist ). So I decided to create my own experiment to try this out myself. So what will I do? I will try to keep my weight even for 3+ months. Then I will measure body fat and strength gain. I am pretty sure that if I work out hard and have a clean diet my body will change even if I keep my weight constant.

Rules:
- your weight should be preferebly constant but a loss of maximum 0,6 lbs / week is ok
- no weight gain (just to prove that you don't need to gain weight to gain muscle)
- this means, the weight should be either constant or decreasing veeery slowly
- clean diet with enough protein (1lbs / body weight) and enough complex carbs to give energy
- generally, the meals will consist of lots of veggies, lean proteins sources, complex carbs, small amounts of fruit after some of the meals
- I won't use any supplements with the exception of protein shakes and protein bars (most of the people don't count them as supplements anyway)
- weight lifting 3-4 days a week
- cardio between weight lifting days (generally high intensity or HIIT because I am also trying to increase my condition for running competitions)
- 1 day rest / week

Expectations:
- muscle gain: 0,2 - 0,4 lbs / week
- fat loss: 0,2 - 1 lbs / week
- this implies around a weekly decrease of 0.5% body fat

Measuring:
- Once in a week with same conditions
- To measure muscle gain I will track lifting gains and so some maths using body fat and weight

Personal:
I am 24 years old, 5'9" and 162 lbs with around 18-20% body fat. I have an endomorph body with very wide hips and tights. I don't want to lose more weight because if I get lean before having some muscle mass, I will have a vase shaped funny body.

I'm working out since february 2009, so the "it only works for beginners" argument is kind of ruled out. I will be on holiday after 12.09.09 and I probably won't have a regular internet connection. Therefore I can't keep you informed regularly. During holiday, I will have to work out at home. I will try to eat as clean as possible even though it will be very hard in Turkey with all the delicious Turkish Kebabs and desserts . When I am back from holiday, I will take it even more seriously.

Interested?
I don't have to do this experiment on my own. Join me! Let's have some fun while finding out if this "Losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time" thing is a myth or not. You don't have to follow the rules exactly. But the weight lifting and watching weight progress is a must.

Cheers.

[phoenixr2]

I am not quite clear. Are you talking about gaining muscle, or gaining strength? You use the terms interchangeably when I do not believe they are.

[dragonaut]

Originally Posted by Artunsan

Measuring:
- Once in a week with same conditions
- To measure muscle gain I will track lifting gains and so some maths using body fat and weight

Are you aware that a large component of strength gains are NEURAL(increased CNS efficiency) and not muscle gain related? You may be able to add weight to the bar in a calorie deficit, but your are not necessary putting on muscle.

If you want to do this right you should do a DEXA scan before and after, and compare if it was any significant LBM gain while decreasing fat mass

[Artunsan]

I am talking about gaining muscle mass. Strength and muscle may not be the same thing. But you can't deny that there is a strong correlation between them. Therefore, although strength can't be the only measure, I think it may be used for measuring. But that is not the point anyway. You can forget about this line if you are stuck on this topic.

[Results_Driven]

Here is my logic (broscience):

Premises:
1. Newbie (untrained body) = high body fat
2. high body fat = stored energy
3. stored energy can be used to break down orally consumed protein into amino acids to build muscle

Conclusion:
Newbies generally have high body fat hence gain muscle while they cut.

[Spacehead]

Maybe this is possible. But probably it takes a lot more time than using bulk/cut cycles.

You are young, you have time too

[gbone74]

A lot depends on your definition of adding muscle,I tend to agree that you could stay at a constant weight and change body composition which is adding muscle but it will only be a limited amount you can add at a certain calorie level till you are absolutely shredded at 160lbs,then to get larger say go up 30-50+lbs and get to what I consider muscular say 200+lbs at 5'9" and have the big arms and shoulders you will simply have to have a calorie surplus to get there I believe there is no way around it,30-40lbs of added bodyweight in terms of muscle has to come from somewhere and that is food

[th3pwn3r]

Save yourself the time, it's not a myth just doesn't work out too well usually if it ever does.

[Artunsan]

Well, I guess fat reduction will be very difficult when you get to low bf percentages like 10-12%. You will have to reduce the calories even more to burn fat. Then, it probably won't work any more because the deficit is too large.

But for me (around 18-20% bf), I still believe that it may work. I mean, let's assume that you lift heavy weights, do regular cardio exercises, eat clean, but eat exactly so much that you stay at the same weight. Your body has to change somehow, right?

I probably won't go on for too long if I realize that it doesn't work. But I will try this anyway because at this time neither cutting or bulking are appealing to me. I have too much fat, so bulking is no option. I don't want to cut either because I think I will look horrible if I get any thinner.

[mdavis1965]

On may 25 I weighed in at 195 lbs and 23 % body fat. I am 5'8" and 43 years old. On Sept. 2 I weighed in at 195 and 20.5% body fat. My arms were 1" bigger my waist was the same legs the same Chest 1" bigger. So, I did gain muscle and lost fat at the same time.

[W11_YHO]

Originally Posted by mdavis1965

On may 25 I weighed in at 195 lbs and 23 % body fat. I am 5'8" and 43 years old. On Sept. 2 I weighed in at 195 and 20.5% body fat. My arms were 1" bigger my waist was the same legs the same Chest 1" bigger. So, I did gain muscle and lost fat at the same time.

I'm similar, I was at 135Ibs 33 inch waist on january but I've went down to a 31 inch waist and just below 133Ibs recently, not bad for just 2Ibs lost. Just takes time.