Pre, During, & Postworkout Nutrition.

[halfstepdown]

Ryan Zielonka

Just curious. I was reading that article again. And I noticed that it said for a starting point most people recover better doing just 4 sets per body part per week. And then below in italics later on it talked about the trainer who has his clients do 4 sets per body part per workout.

Just wondering what you have to say on this. Because at the current moment I'm wondering if I'm doing too much. And if I only did 4 sets for each body part a week, if that would give me the same/better results, that would save time.

[Ryan Zielonka]

[QUOTE=halfstepdown;371561891]Ryan Zielonka

Just curious. I was reading that article again. And I noticed that it said for a starting point most people recover better doing just 4 sets per body part per week. And then below in italics later on it talked about the trainer who has his clients do 4 sets per body part per workout.

@halfstepdown

Not sure what you're referencing. Here's the quote pulled directly from the article:

Any discussion of training frequency births immense controversy. Every would-be guru contributes to an already divided and conflicted field. Research wise, an academic journal literature review showed that eight total work sets per week per body part creates an ideal environment for hypertrophy. The human body doesn?t just tolerate but instead thrives on a greater frequency than once thought; a muscle group should be at minimum trained hard once every five days. Depending on an athlete?s training history, goals, genetics, this recommendation can be tailor-fit to the individual.

And in the Alpha T. Bro examples, each workout has two sets of a major compound movement (bench press) followed by two sets of an accessory movement (pec flye) during the same workout.

[jungledan]

Originally Posted by alan aragon

oats are a strange animal in that researchers didn't see their GI increase when ground up, whereas other grains did. there must be some element of the processing of the quick oats that increases their surface area beyond simply thinner cutting, thus hiking their GI beyond that of the old fashioned oats. but the important thing to remember is that GI counts for very little in the large scheme of things - it's almost a shame that folks invariably ruminate over it. i'm going to have a mod edit my original posts to reflect my increasing de-emphasis on GI, period (among other elements of pre/during/post stuff). focus more on total amount of carbs, get what's more convenient/economical for you, & you'll be straight.

ok i see ur not lov`n the GI index much these days ALAN but i have a question about manipulating the GI index in a post workout shake.
i live in japan and i can only get old fashioned rolled oats (quaker) and the GI is not as low as say steel cut oats as best as i can research, and i would like to lower the gi of my PostWOS (as much for experimentation as anything else, see how my gains react to a lower GI shake), is there anything i could add to lower the GI? oil would slow absorbtion but thats not so hot postworkout i know...any ideas? maybe i am getting too WITCH`S CAULDRON with my shake, perhaps i should cut out the eye of newt huh, i get a lot of strange looks for that in the changing room!

Many thanks for all ur help and great work on this monstrous thread, we are all loving it and appreciating ur continuing effort!

[martinelli]

Hey, everyone...
...and to those of you who are currently working with Alan or have worked with him at one point.

I would just like to share with you my results after having dieted and trained under his guidance for the past month. Also, unless you'd rather not, I'd be very interested in seeing your progress with him!


BW (electronic scale):
183 lbs --> 174.6 lbs

Navel:
34.75" --> 33.3" relaxed
32.9" --> 31.75 with stomach vacuum

Lifts:
Flat BB Bench: 225 lbs, 4x3 and a 5th set of 2 --> 225 lbs, 8x4
Standing Overhead BB Press: 135 lbs, 6x3 --> 150 lbs, 3x3, a 4th set of 2, a 5th set of 2
Bent-over BB Rows: 145 lbs, 6x3 --> 150 lbs, 7x5
Chin-ups: BW, 6x4 --> With 20-lb chain-link dipping belt, 8x3

BF%: 18.1% (April) --> 17.2% (May) --> 17.5% (June) --> ? (August)


So I still need to schedule to come in and get my BF tested.

In short, I am VERY pleased with where I have gotten with Alan's help! Thanks, Broski! Hope to work with you again soon!

[wickedinc]

My schedule right now is sort of messed up. I wake up and have 4 or 5 whole eggs and 1 1/3 cups of oats. 30 or 45 min later I'll have some whey preworkout. Is it bad to have that much fat from the eggs that close to my workout?

[paddydevil]

how much creatine should i take?
my bw is 175lbs and am looking for bulking.

[nano.ix]

Originally Posted by paddydevil

how much creatine should i take?
thanx

Originally Posted by nano.ix

3-5g is enough.

Originally Posted by paddydevil

how much creatine should i take?
my bw is 175lbs and am looking for bulking.

It's not hard to look up.

[Ryan Zielonka]

Hey guys, thought this might interest you. Here's part one of an interview with Tommy Jeffers, a.k.a. Sporto1633 hosted on my website:

http://www.ryanzielonka.com/five-for...ffers-part-one

[paddydevil]

thanks for reply nano.x
will be going for 5gms of creatine post workout.

also,i have one more question

is it ok to consume my post-workout 30 min after my workout cos it takes 20 min to get home from gym or should i consume whey protein immeadiately post workout.
the advantage of getting home is that i can consume eggs and solid food as opposed to whey protein.
ppl say that body is highly responsive to food post workout.
is the timing very important in this?

[fcalise]

You should be fine with the drive home, if you check out the link on the first post Alan mentions you can get your post workout food within 30min after you finish working out.

[Ryan Zielonka]

Originally Posted by paddydevil

thanks for reply nano.x
will be going for 5gms of creatine post workout.

also,i have one more question

is it ok to consume my post-workout 30 min after my workout cos it takes 20 min to get home from gym or should i consume whey protein immeadiately post workout.
the advantage of getting home is that i can consume eggs and solid food as opposed to whey protein.
ppl say that body is highly responsive to food post workout.
is the timing very important in this?

No need to be obsessive, but in my experience, I'm typically famished and near brain-dead at the end of a workout so I usually go with whey and a fast-acting carb as an appetizer to my protein and carb orgy at home.

I do the whey+fast carb not for any metabolic advantage but rather for practical reasons, namely cratering blood sugar. Your mileage may vary. Just don't go artificially prolonging the time between the end of your workout and next meal and you'll be fine.

[paddydevil]

usually my workouts are very heavy and i workout usually in the morning.
i take 70gm oats+1 scoop whey pre workout+10 gms coffee.
so would my glycogen be depleted completely by the end of workout which lasts for 1hour15min.
if not then ill go with fcalise's recommend else its ryan scholar(lol)

thanx

[halfstepdown]

Originally Posted by Ryan Zielonka

Hey guys, thought this might interest you. Here's part one of an interview with Tommy Jeffers, a.k.a. Sporto1633 hosted on my website:

ryanzielonka.com/five-for-five/five-for-five-with-tommy-jeffers-part-one

Thanks! That's what I am barely realizing. I need to just listen to my OWN body, figure out my OWN genetics, see how fast I personally recover and shape a program around that!

Just seems to be taking a long time to hammer that into my brain and that article helped definitely.

[Ryan Zielonka]

Part Two of my interview with Tommy Jeffers

http://icio.us/12ym4v

[2Dos]

My WPI contains 388mg of L-Glutamine, is that a good enough dose for recovery?

[CoQ10]

Great article by Alan here:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...an-aragon.html

I believe it's from last month's RR. Good stuff.

-C10

[pretty.batgirl]

I have a question, how much carbs do you necessarily need post work? For the past two days, instead of a banana mixed in with a protein shake, I've been having about a cup of chopped mango and pineapple cubes. I feel like it's a tad too much. Someone please reassure me!

[Mafioso76]

Originally Posted by pretty.batgirl

I have a question, how much carbs do you necessarily need post work? For the past two days, instead of a banana mixed in with a protein shake, I've been having about a cup of chopped mango and pineapple cubes. I feel like it's a tad too much. Someone please reassure me!

Hey batgirl....really depends on what your goals are here, but Alan set forth a framework on the very first post of this thread.

[martinelli]

Originally Posted by CoQ10

Great article by Alan here:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...an-aragon.html

I believe it's from last month's RR. Good stuff.

-C10

Great article, and a fresh breeze for T-Nation to mull over. If it weren't for their product-pushing... their articles are good too!

[jstout]

Book question for Alan:

On page 153 of Girth Control, you have a formula for "endstage" fat loss. Could you define what you mean by "endstage" fat loss?

Is it a term applicable only to bodybuilders in the last stage of "getting peeled" for a competition or to anyone at a certain stage of losing weight? If so, when are you at the "endstage" - when you only have x amount of pounds to lose to reach your final goal, or when you hit a certain bodyfat percentage, or maybe a little of both?

Thanks.

[Ryan Zielonka]

Originally Posted by pretty.batgirl

I have a question, how much carbs do you necessarily need post work? For the past two days, instead of a banana mixed in with a protein shake, I've been having about a cup of chopped mango and pineapple cubes. I feel like it's a tad too much. Someone please reassure me!

First, step away from the window, it's gonna be o-kay .

My first question is "where's the starch?" Unless you're exerting zero to no effort in the gym, or are in an 'end-stage fat loss' type of a situation, you should be getting at least a portion of starch alongside your fruit post-workout.

Honestly, I think your calories are a lot too little.

What does the rest of your diet like? What are your goals? What does your training look like?

It's near impossible to answer these sort of questions without knowing a little background first. Hit me up via PM or post in the thread with your answers and we can go from there.

EDIT: Nevermind, checked your old log and PM'd you with some recommendations. Hit me by email at ryan.zielonka [at] gmail . com.

[Ryan Zielonka]

Originally Posted by jstout

Book question for Alan:

On page 153 of Girth Control, you have a formula for "endstage" fat loss. Could you define what you mean by "endstage" fat loss?

Is it a term applicable only to bodybuilders in the last stage of "getting peeled" for a competition or to anyone at a certain stage of losing weight? If so, when are you at the "endstage" - when you only have x amount of pounds to lose to reach your final goal, or when you hit a certain bodyfat percentage, or maybe a little of both?

Thanks.

End-stage fat loss is dipping below the 9% barrier for guys to get to that 5-8% range. That's the sticking point where drastic caloric restriction and higher exercise volume become a necessity if you want to reveal those abs. That said, I've seen other guys with high (8+ hour) activity levels maintain 6-8% BF on 3000+kcal, so the formulas are only a starting point. And now that I think about it, certain folks may need go practically ketogenic (no carbs but fibrous veggies, plus fat and lean protein) with some carb-ups thrown to get to that 'sick lean' point.

The only real difference between recreational populations and bodybuilders is how long you want to diet, and how extreme of a caloric restriction you're willing to endure.

[ptrckolous]

I just red a T-Nation Article which says that the post-workout-windows lasts around 24hours.

1)- The most effective way to get a good proteinsynthese is by eating PRO+CHO meals,right?

2)- Does that mean that I would be better of by eating all day long PRO+CHO meals instead of cutting off my carbs after my post-workout-meal (around 5pm)?

3)- What about off days? my routine is on(400surplus)-on(400surplus)-off(1200deficit) with 1 refeed (1300surplus). Should I avoid eating carbs all day long, besides my breakfast?

[elvon]

If there is a whole pot of noodles, how do I determine the proportion from dry to cooked ?
At 75g dry it contains:

260 calories
0 Fat
56g Carbs
10g protein

I wanna dish out the exact serving, anyone know how I would go about doing that

[eriram]

Originally Posted by elvon

If there is a whole pot of noodles, how do I determine the proportion from dry to cooked ?
At 75g dry it contains:

260 calories
0 Fat
56g Carbs
10g protein

I wanna dish out the exact serving, anyone know how I would go about doing that

If you cooked the whole box then just multiply the servings x grams. That total number is a proportion to the total weight. Find out how many you want, in cups, and NEVER waste your time measuring again.

[elvon]

yea the entire packet has 4 servings. I would multiply that by grams that i want ?

[elvon]

So if I wanted one serving of 75g dry, would that come out to be in the neighborhood of
300g cooked.

[sepandee]

Hey everybody,

Been off this site and forum for a while. Injury + last days of dissertation + werk = no gym, no BB.com.

Last I remember, it was about calories in vs calories out. Whether it's 25% fat or 5% fat doesn't really matter when it comes to body composition (health is a different thing though. In fact, I think 5% fat is unhealthy but I digress). However, a friend of mine told me he found this on a health and fitness trainer's website:

Myth 2: Cutting Calories Will Drastically Lose You Weight

Not really the case. By cutting calories you automatically go into conservation drive which causes your metabolic rate, the rate at which you burn calories, to slow down. This therefore reduces your ability to shred weight. To make sure you still burn fat effectively, a minor drop in your caloric intake is advised whilst importantly adjusting your fuel foods. Studies have shown that men who received 25% of there calories from fat as opposed to the average 37%, but ate as much as they liked, lost an average of half a pound each week.

No references unfortunately.
Does anyone know which study this is referring to?

Thanks.

[signature166]

Originally Posted by sepandee

Hey everybody,

Been off this site and forum for a while. Injury + last days of dissertation + werk = no gym, no BB.com.

Last I remember, it was about calories in vs calories out. Whether it's 25% fat or 5% fat doesn't really matter when it comes to body composition (health is a different thing though. In fact, I think 5% fat is unhealthy but I digress). However, a friend of mine told me he found this on a health and fitness trainer's website:

Myth 2: Cutting Calories Will Drastically Lose You Weight

Not really the case. By cutting calories you automatically go into conservation drive which causes your metabolic rate, the rate at which you burn calories, to slow down. This therefore reduces your ability to shred weight. To make sure you still burn fat effectively, a minor drop in your caloric intake is advised whilst importantly adjusting your fuel foods. Studies have shown that men who received 25% of there calories from fat as opposed to the average 37%, but ate as much as they liked, lost an average of half a pound each week.

No references unfortunately.
Does anyone know which study this is referring to?

Thanks.

No, but it doesn't matter.

[Cuchulainn]

Not sure if this is a repost, but I just wanted to pass this along.

Chocolate-flavoured milk speeds up recovery as well as expensive sports drinks


Researchers found that chocolate milkshake's "natural" muscle recovery benefits match or may even surpass a specially designed carbohydrate sports drink.

They discovered that muscle damage was actually lower in those players that drank the milk after training than those that drank the commercial energy drinks.

The team at James Madison University in Virginia, USA, tested the level of muscle damage in 13 football players after intensive training.

They found that the half of the players that were given chocolate milkshake showed lower levels than those given sports drinks. The actual performance of the two groups was, however, similar.

There were also no differences between the two beverages in effects on perceived muscle soreness, mental and physical fatigue and other measures of muscle strength.

This new study adds to a growing body of evidence suggesting milk may be just as effective as some commercial sports drinks in helping athletes recover and rehydrate.

Chocolate milkshake, which is low-fat milk flavoured with cocoa and sugar, has the advantage of additional nutrients not found in most traditional sports drinks.

Studies suggest that when consumed after exercise, milk's mix of high-quality protein and carbohydrates can help refuel exhausted muscles.

The protein in milk helps build lean muscle and recent research suggests it may reduce exercise-induced muscle damage. Milk also provides fluids for rehydration and minerals like calcium, potassium and magnesium that recreational exercisers and elite athletes alike need to replace after strenuous activity.

The results, published at the American College of Sports Medicine annual meeting, follow on from a previous study which showed wheat flakes and skimmed milk were also good for recovery.

The milk also helped reduce lactic acid levels in the blood, the compound that causes stiffness after exercise.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...ts-drinks.html