Why are some atheists...

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 07:53 PM

so adamant on disproving the existence of a god?

The main argument for an atheist is usually that science can explain all and therefore dispels any notion of a higher power. However most atheists arent scientists at all to begin with! Ha. I doubt a fair share of atheists have ever studied cosmological physics or what have you yet blindly use it as evidence to disprove God. How can we rely on science when science in itself is limited. Who is to say that we have to capability of understadning our universe? Can you explain the universe to a dog? If we are yet another species, another product of this universe then what makes us intellectually capable of comprehending the universe? Why is it that some find it so idiotic to believe that infact all of reality was created by a higher power? How can anyone be certain that it isnt?

/end gibberish ridden rant

JustAnotherUser · 08-01-2009, 07:55 PM

Really, I like the atheist/theist debates here. If you never have your beliefs challenged, then they can't be very strong. Debate/arguement can strengthen your beliefs more than any amount of churchgoing or preaching ever can.

For me at least.

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 07:58 PM

I agree, its always good to challenge your beliefs no matter what you believe (or dont believe) in. However, my problem is with atheists who completely deny the idea of a God and call anyone who does a belief an idiot or whatever. And as well how they use science to disprove God, when science in itself is very limited. To me an atheist like this is just as bad as any religious nut.

KiloNewton · 08-01-2009, 08:01 PM

You are right, science can't disprove God. I think you will find though most atheists here do not claim that it does, most seem to claim that the existence of God can't be proven or disproven but science points toward the non-existence of God.
I am not of this position myself.

forcasa · 08-01-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

so adamant on disproving the existence of a god?

Because that's the basis of the belief..

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

How can we rely on science when science in itself is limited.

Because we learn more all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

Who is to say that we have to capability of understadning our universe?

No one yet, but worth trying no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

Can you explain the universe to a dog?

No, nor any other belief yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

Why is it that some find it so idiotic to believe that infact all of reality was created by a higher power?

Partly because of all the associated rubbish that comes with those beliefs, partly becuase it just seems logical, to me

Harbinger · 08-01-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

so adamant on disproving the existence of a god?

The main argument for an atheist is usually that science can explain all and therefore dispels any notion of a higher power. However most atheists arent scientists at all to begin with! Ha. I doubt a fair share of atheists have ever studied cosmological physics or what have you yet blindly use it as evidence to disprove God. How can we rely on science when science in itself is limited. Who is to say that we have to capability of understadning our universe? Can you explain the universe to a dog? If we are yet another species, another product of this universe then what makes us intellectually capable of comprehending the universe? Why is it that some find it so idiotic to believe that infact all of reality was created by a higher power? How can anyone be certain that it isnt?

/end gibberish ridden rant

I don't even know where to start. We're not dogs. It's not a fact that all reality was created by a higher power. I'll use something someone else here used recently. If you lived back when people thought the world was flat but, you and a few others KNEW it was round. Wouldn't you want everyone else to know also. Even if most of the population was against you and the current science couldn't say for 100% that you were right. Wouldn't you want to run through the streets yelling IT'S ROUND?

Wiley1 · 08-01-2009, 08:05 PM

I don't think atheists use science to disprove God, God cannot be disproved. This doesn't chance the fact that God is a man made idea to explain the unknown.

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forcasa

Partly because of all the associated rubbish that comes with those beliefs, partly becuase it just seems logical, to me

I'm not talking about any specific belief like Islam, or Christianity, because I know first hand they have their contradictions and what not.

But,

The general and very basic idea that a higher power created all of existence.

Not Jesus, not Allah.

No one.

Why is it so hard to accept this as a possibility that perhaps a God did create everything?

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

I don't even know where to start. We're not dogs. It's not a fact that all reality was created by a higher power. I'll use something someone else here used recently. If you lived back when people thought the world was flat but, you and a few others KNEW it was round. Wouldn't you want everyone else to know also. Even if most of the population was against you and the current science couldn't say for 100% that you were right. Wouldn't you want to run through the streets yelling IT'S ROUND?

I know we're not a dogs, but why us, just another species, is capable of understanding all of the complexities of the universe? What if the true nature of reality is to hard for us to understand?

Harbinger · 08-01-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

I know we're not a dogs, but why us, just another species, is capable of understanding all of the complexities of the universe? What if the true nature of reality is to hard for us to understand?

We are not "just another species"

What if it's not? Shouldn't we try?

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiley1

I don't think atheists use science to disprove God, God cannot be disproved. This doesn't chance the fact that God is a man made idea to explain the unknown.

But what if you're not using God to expalin the unknown.

What if you're accepting in you're own mind that the possible that a higher power created everything is a very plausible idea?

Why is that so hard for some to come to terms with?

Why is this such a preposterous idea?

Do you want to know some crazy stuff? You know in quantum physics there is a statiscal possibility that you could just fall through the floor right. That all of your particles would simply displace right through. Thats just one crazy fact of science. And it it's true.

Oh so rational science breaks a lot of rules of logic humans have held for so long.

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

We are not "just another species"

What if it's not? Shouldn't we try?

Of course we should!!

Look where it's gotten us now. The pursuit of knowledge has enriched human society greatly. What with electricity, computers, understanding Newtonian physics so we can build structures.

All I'm saying is that some people shouldn't use the arguement that science can tell us all, because ultimately the universe is the way it is. Science is humans making its own conclusions about the way this universe is.

It's ignorant to come to the conclusions that we will eventually have all the answers, because MAYBE we're not smart enough to understand everything.

forcasa · 08-01-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

Why is it so hard to accept this as a possibility that perhaps a God did create everything?

i accept the possibility, it's right there on my list of things to possibly accept just above ghosts and homeopathy.

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forcasa

i accept the possibility, it's right there on my list of things to possibly accept just above ghosts and homeopathy.

Hahahahaha.

Great here we go...

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forcasa

i accept the possibility, it's right there on my list of things to possibly accept just above ghosts and homeopathy.

Right now I just want you to blank out everything in your mind and think in very simple concepts with me okay?

There exists a universe and a reality which we so happen to live in.

This universe could have come to existence randomly. It could be a cycle of existence and non-existence. It could have been created by a higher power. It could be a part of a chain of multiverses, being one insignificant section of a greater reality (also an actual theory in physics).

Now how can you FOR SURE dispel any of the above theories with extreme certainty?

Harbinger · 08-01-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

Right now I just want you to blank out everything in your mind and think in very simple concepts with me okay?

There exists a universe and a reality which we so happen to live in.

This universe could have come to existence randomly. It could be a cycle of existence and non-existence. It could have been created by a higher power. It could be a part of a chain of multiverses, being one insignificant section of a greater reality (also an actual theory in physics).

Now how can you FOR SURE dispel any of the above theories with extreme certainty?

I don't know of anyone that does.

Wiley1 · 08-01-2009, 08:22 PM

The possibility of some invisible all powerful eternal super being somehow magically creating everything is not something i can accept as a very plausible idea.

B_Master_Flash · 08-01-2009, 08:29 PM

I wouldn't say I ever try to disprove god, and I'll even say that disproving god is not possible. The problem arises when religions start making claims that have physical implications that don't agree with observation.

For example (not starting a debate here, just a lame example):

Religious person X: I believe the universe is 6,000 years old
Me: Emperical evidence shows strong support of a much older universe, and no scientific evidence supports a 6,000 year old universe, so I think you are wrong.
Religious Person X: YOU CAN'T DISPROVE GOD, WHY DO ATHEISTS ALWAYS TRY TO DISPROVE GOD, ETC BLAH BLAH BLAH

Like I said, not trying to disprove god but when a religious group makes a claim that carries physical implications that don't agree with observation I think the BS card is in order.

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiley1

The possibility of some invisible all powerful eternal super being somehow magically creating everything is not something i can accept as a very plausible idea.

Do you believe that I can just magically fall right through this chair im sitting on with out any reason at all?

Do you believe that time can be slowed down and played around with just as easy as matter?

Do you believe in science?

Because that **** is hardcore proven facts.

Age: 16

If you cant except that as a possibility then you are very close minded. But it's okay since you're still young and not at your full intellectual capacity quite yet

Harbinger · 08-01-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

Do you believe that I can just magically fall right through this chair im sitting on with out any reason at all?

Do you believe that time can be slowed down and played around with just as easy as matter?

Do you believe in science?

Because that **** is hardcore proven facts.

Age: 16

If you cant except that as a possibility then you are very close minded. But it's okay since you're still young and not at your full intellectual capacity quite yet

Can you except that there might NOT be a god?

ONtop888 · 08-01-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Master_Flash

I wouldn't say I ever try to disprove god, and I'll even say that disproving god is not possible. The problem arises when religions start making claims that have physical implications that don't agree with observation.

For example (not starting a debate here, just a lame example):

Religious person X: I believe the universe is 6,000 years old
Me: Emperical evidence shows strong support of a much older universe, and no scientific evidence supports a 6,000 year old universe, so I think you are wrong.
Religious Person X: YOU CAN'T DISPROVE GOD, WHY DO ATHEISTS ALWAYS TRY TO DISPROVE GOD, ETC BLAH BLAH BLAH

Like I said, not trying to disprove god but when a religious group makes a claim that carries physical implications that don't agree with observation I think the BS card is in order.

I've always thought: if you have religious questions go to a priest, if you have science question go to a scientist, if you have medical questions go to a doctor, and if you have law related questions go to a lawyer.

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Master_Flash

I wouldn't say I ever try to disprove god, and I'll even say that disproving god is not possible. The problem arises when religions start making claims that have physical implications that don't agree with observation.

For example (not starting a debate here, just a lame example):

Religious person X: I believe the universe is 6,000 years old
Me: Emperical evidence shows strong support of a much older universe, and no scientific evidence supports a 6,000 year old universe, so I think you are wrong.
Religious Person X: YOU CAN'T DISPROVE GOD, WHY DO ATHEISTS ALWAYS TRY TO DISPROVE GOD, ETC BLAH BLAH BLAH

Like I said, not trying to disprove god but when a religious group makes a claim that carries physical implications that don't agree with observation I think the BS card is in order.

I look at that type of religious person the same way as I do any close minded atheist

And by no means by this post am I supporting religions or popular religious groups whatsoever.

All I is saying is that the general idea that a higher being created existence is very plausible and shouldnt be denied by anyone. (with out good arguement ofcourse)

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

Can you except that there might NOT be a god?

Yes of course!

Harbinger · 08-01-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

yes of course!

gjdm

Wiley1 · 08-01-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

Do you believe that I can just magically fall right through this chair im sitting on with out any reason at all?

Do you believe that time can be slowed down and played around with just as easy as matter?

There is theory/reason behind both these. God has no basis other than faith.

I consider myself quite open minded and i consider the possibility of God extremely unlikely. I take it you're agnostic?

LordDarwin · 08-01-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshigtx

All I is saying is that the general idea that a higher being created existence is very plausible and shouldnt be denied by anyone. (with out good arguement ofcourse)

Yes, and I don't think Atheists are denying this, just the Theistic gods. Hence.... A - Theist.

If it is a truly unknown god that exists in the 11th dimension and started this universe then it is currently 50/50 with our scientific understanding. Only Theistic gods are being denied. We cannot beyond a reasonable doubt disprove the unknown, just logically argue against it.

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

gjdm!!

The idea is very plausible that in fact everything did come from nothing. I mean why not? Why is it so hard for some people to wrap their minds around this idea? Humans have a very obscured sense of logic which often distorts rational thought.

x_aDrenaLine_x · 08-01-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

I don't even know where to start. We're not dogs. It's not a fact that all reality was created by a higher power. I'll use something someone else here used recently. If you lived back when people thought the world was flat but, you and a few others KNEW it was round. Wouldn't you want everyone else to know also. Even if most of the population was against you and the current science couldn't say for 100% that you were right. Wouldn't you want to run through the streets yelling IT'S ROUND?

I agree but some, if not many, atheists on this site (not all) claim that they KNOW there is no God so they come up with posts that consist nothing more than calling theists delusional/idiots/stupid/ignorant/etc. The same analogy applies for those that KNEW that the earth was flat. Unless you 100% KNOW that there is no God don't call theists delusional or illogic (not saying you this pertains to those who continue to add nothing more to threads other than "LOL your delusional).

On a side note there are some that still believe the Earth is flat and the government is in a international conspiracy to conceal it from the public. .......No comment..... http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/

arshigtx · 08-01-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordDarwin

Yes, and I don't think Atheists are denying this, just the Theistic gods. Hence.... A - Theist.

If it is a truly unknown god that exists in the 11th dimension and started this universe then it is currently 50/50 with our scientific understanding. Only Theistic gods are being denied. We cannot beyond a reasonable doubt disprove the unknown, just logically argue against it.

Okay well then my animosity isn't toward the true definition of an atheist, rather the ones who just blatantly disagree with my statement above.

Bahai.Lifter · 08-01-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

I don't even know where to start. We're not dogs. It's not a fact that all reality was created by a higher power. I'll use something someone else here used recently. If you lived back when people thought the world was flat but, you and a few others KNEW it was round. Wouldn't you want everyone else to know also. Even if most of the population was against you and the current science couldn't say for 100% that you were right. Wouldn't you want to run through the streets yelling IT'S ROUND?

You don't know 100% that there is no God, nor can you prove it. So you shouldn't have the desire to run through the streets yelling that there is no God -- to use your example. There is no one on this forum who believes the earth is flat, as the contrary has been clearly established.

I wouldn't say the earth is flat because that's plain wrong, just as I wouldn't say that there is no God.