i would be a little more critical of the men in the church though. word starts with a 'p'
and its no wonder why the desired christian girls end up with non christian males, they are the only ones that are somewhat masculine!
even in youth group, college groups, etc growing up it were the semi rough guys that got all the attention from girls. then those girls get into bad relationships with guys and it really hurts them.
every man needs to read wild at heart.
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i would be a little more critical of the men in the church though. word starts with a 'p'
and its no wonder why the desired christian girls end up with non christian males, they are the only ones that are somewhat masculine!
even in youth group, college groups, etc growing up it were the semi rough guys that got all the attention from girls. then those girls get into bad relationships with guys and it really hurts them.
every man needs to read wild at heart.
I posted this as food for thought-I feel every person has a right to be the way they want to be, but agree with you about the almost prejudice some churches seem to have against 'manly men'-and I agree, it stinks.
There are a lot of Christian Men (myself included) who like to think that there is more to the Christian church activities than Ladies' Sewing Circles and their good boy husbands.
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Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord and has made the
Lord his hope and confidence. Jeremiah 17:7
The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases, his mercies never
come to an end; they are new every morning. . .Lamentations 3:22-23
i would be a little more critical of the men in the church though. word starts with a 'p'
and its no wonder why the desired christian girls end up with non christian males, they are the only ones that are somewhat masculine!
even in youth group, college groups, etc growing up it were the semi rough guys that got all the attention from girls. then those girls get into bad relationships with guys and it really hurts them.
every man needs to read wild at heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gymforlord
I posted this as food for thought-I feel every person has a right to be the way they want to be, but agree with you about the almost prejudice some churches seem to have against 'manly men'-and I agree, it stinks.
There are a lot of Christian Men (myself included) who like to think that there is more to the Christian church activities than Ladies' Sewing Circles and their good boy husbands.
These issues are very near to my heart. Have either of you read: Wild at Heart? Jon Eldridge does a great job with it. I felt the same way I do now before I read it but he helped me define some of my ideas/feelings. He says, "let others deal with the weight of who you are." I think this is a great quote. Be who you are God made you that way. Men needn't become woman-like to attend church. Embrace your manlyness and go out and win others for Christ. Jesus related to the Jews of his day and so we must also relate to the unbelievers of today. How many manly men who are unbelievers are at all intrigued by feminine men..none!
J
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For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. 1 Timothy 4: 8
Rep owed:
JUSA
Good noob: Farve004 http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=118223781
Bad nood: Pask3r http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=368609581&posted=1#post368609581
These issues are very near to my heart. Have either of you read: Wild at Heart? Jon Eldridge does a great job with it. I felt the same way I do now before I read it but he helped me define some of my ideas/feelings. He says, "let others deal with the weight of who you are." I think this is a great quote. Be who you are God made you that way. Men needn't become woman-like to attend church. Embrace your manlyness and go out and win others for Christ. Jesus related to the Jews of his day and so we must also relate to the unbelievers of today. How many manly men who are unbelievers are at all intrigued by feminine men..none!
J
J
Thanks, Bro-will check it out!
__________________
Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord and has made the
Lord his hope and confidence. Jeremiah 17:7
The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases, his mercies never
come to an end; they are new every morning. . .Lamentations 3:22-23
These issues are very near to my heart. Have either of you read: Wild at Heart? Jon Eldridge does a great job with it. I felt the same way I do now before I read it but he helped me define some of my ideas/feelings. He says, "let others deal with the weight of who you are." I think this is a great quote. Be who you are God made you that way. Men needn't become woman-like to attend church. Embrace your manlyness and go out and win others for Christ. Jesus related to the Jews of his day and so we must also relate to the unbelievers of today. How many manly men who are unbelievers are at all intrigued by feminine men..none!
J
J
ha, check the end of my quote!
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apparently he and I don't read posts fully huh? lol!
J
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For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. 1 Timothy 4: 8
Rep owed:
JUSA
Good noob: Farve004 http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=118223781
Bad nood: Pask3r http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=368609581&posted=1#post368609581
didn't check to see if anyone posted this so I'll post it here.
I respect this guy for voicing his opinion and backing it up with solid historical facts
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Ya gotta figure it was one of them who got him banned.
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Proud member of the Δtheist Δlliance.
Unapologetic Δtheist - If you're stupid it's not my fault and I'm not sorry.
Strength, courage, self-control, etc. are all virtues Christian men (and women for that matter)should posses.
However the problem lies in what many traits us Christians consider to be the greatest of all, are seen as weak by the modern male society. Love, humility, kindness, all virtues we should possess, and I find most "manly men" Christians lack in this department because of their own pride.
We are taught to turn the other cheek, and use the words of God as our weapon, not our fists.
I find myself struggling with this aspect a lot as a Christian, I'm sure a lot of other guys on here can relate. I'm filled with the urge to fight/defend with my fists/MY own words, but I know it's not the right thing to do as a Christian.
But really what is he talking about when he says "manly"? He points out colors of the church and such, but is that not just today's society influencing his mind to believe that those colors are unmanly traits? Would it not be more manly then to look past seeing pastel colors, baseball loving, etc. as "manly" traits?
Something disturbed me watching the video "wearing sweater vests and singing love songs to Jesus", he said it like it was a bad thing eh? Then he goes on and encourages "slaughtering of men" as a manly "dude" attribute.
Whole thing just didn't sound Christian to me, sounded like a secular understanding of how many should act/be, not how men that are children of God should be.
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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit."
- Aristotle
disagree, take a look around, I'll bet most the guys in your church look like there entering a Clay Aiken lookalike fan club. We need warriors, who will fight, spiritually for their families and righteousness
gender roles and responsibilities are not defined in today's society, don't judge Mark on his statements...he ticks me off at times, but for the most part he's pretty close to spot on, in regards to gender issues, IMO
agree to disagree
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look at success, and what it breeds as an outcome...
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disagree, take a look around, I'll bet most the guys in your church look like there entering a Clay Aiken lookalike fan club. We need warriors, who will fight, spiritually for their families and righteousness
gender roles and responsibilities are not defined in today's society, don't judge Mark on his statements...he ticks me off at times, but for the most part he's pretty close to spot on, in regards to gender issues, IMO
agree to disagree
I never said men shouldn't fight spiritually, I do it daily and all Christians should.
Fighting spiritually doesn't involve conquering anything physical. Words will do more then any fist could.
If you're saying Christians should physically harm/kill those who want to do unto us like "warriors" do, then I question where you got that idea.
Turn the other cheek has a lot of meaning behind it. It's not just a "oh I don't want to hurt that person because I'm a wimp" it's a "I'm strong enough to take this punch and not fight back because I realize by doing so it will effect him more then any punch would". Not my words, God's.
Is this what we're disagreeing on?
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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit."
- Aristotle
I never said men shouldn't fight spiritually, I do it daily and all Christians should.
Fighting spiritually doesn't involve conquering anything physical. Words will do more then any fist could.
If you're saying Christians should physically harm/kill those who want to do unto us like "warriors" do, then I question where you got that idea.
Turn the other cheek has a lot of meaning behind it. It's not just a "oh I don't want to hurt that person because I'm a wimp" it's a "I'm strong enough to take this punch and not fight back because I realize by doing so it will effect him more then any punch would". Not my words, God's.
Is this what we're disagreeing on?
aw snap, i had three paragraphs written on this...its too late to rewrite all of that.
as we all know, God made everything in His image. Just look how tame yet dangerous nature can be. I believe God wants us to carry a similar edge. Nature allows for some risky behavior but before long it will respond.
As men we must learn where that line is. May it be someone making fun of your beliefs, or you are put in a situation where you must physically turn to the other cheek, we cannot simply let another slap us around for as long as he shall please.
We must be equipped in all facets: spiritually, emotionally, physically, and mentally for any situation. Many have died over refusal to deny God, and without a doubt that is our first priority (to always recognize God) but I feel its ridiculous that men find it acceptable to be pushed around.
Just like the video mentioned, God had big plans for David, and that included slaying Goliath and fighting wars. There is a time to fight and defend, and words will not always work. Evil men are rarely disarmed with words.
I think men (specifically in the church) are far too emasculated and its sad.
Again, Wild at Heart hits this issue perfectly imo.
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I don't get that kind of Christianity, i admit i am warrior class, not singer.
That is one of the few things that really trouble me with connecting during worship. I just do not think like that or draw such emotions during song. I dont raise my hands, sway, or cry. Its just not me.
I know that the focus is on God, but there must be better ways for young men to connect. Many guys I know struggle hate the word love to begin with (lol) let alone having to sing out loud with soft music in the background.
I struggle to find Christian music that I like...its just so bleh and vanilla.
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I'm sorry but if someone decks me you better believe he's going to get decked back
There is a time for diplomacy but there is also a time for action as well.
And General I kinda agree with you about some Christian music. I listen to Christian metal,Gregorian chants,Hymns and Choir music though. There is nothing like listening to a good soothing hymn to calm a restless soul.
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"The road to salvation is through Christ"
Luke 1:74
to rescue us from the hand of our enemies, and to enable us to serve him without fear
^Love is the power of the righteousness life that overcomes the fear that leads to sin, and the life in which God is pleased.
Turn the other cheek has a lot of meaning behind it. It's not just a "oh I don't want to hurt that person because I'm a wimp" it's a "I'm strong enough to take this punch and not fight back because I realize by doing so it will effect him more then any punch would". Not my words, God's.
Is this what we're disagreeing on?
certainly, I'm not speaking for Mark (thank God...) but he is not advocating UFC church, he's desiring a church where men can lead, be comfortable in leading and be unconventional in leading...he has referred to ultraviolet men as "satanic" previously...
men fart and laugh about it
men make jokes about how great they are
men make fun of how great they are not
men fight as Christ did, in true intention, subjection to authority and ultimate victory
real men die for a passion and purpose.
you were totally correct in your first post, self control and restraint are important characteristics to possess, but a Holy indignation is a good one to grab hold of at the Spirit's leading also
Jesus was not meek...He was appropriate. He treated people;e exactly how they needed to be treated. He became servant to His students, but a angry janitor to thieves in the temple. I'm not so sure the dudes we've got now have the batteries to fight like that...
I live by nonviolence doesn't mean I have completely irradicated any trace of violence in my nature. My dreams tell me different. And I will defend myself in a fight.
In other news I am reading the complete works of St. John of the Cross. I am reading it slowly like sipping fine wine because it is so deep and insightful. And I am edified by the life he lived. I can almost sense his holiness through reading
I'm sorry but if someone decks me you better believe he's going to get decked back
There is a time for diplomacy but there is also a time for action as well.
And General I kinda agree with you about some Christian music. I listen to Christian metal,Gregorian chants,Hymns and Choir music though. There is nothing like listening to a good soothing hymn to calm a restless soul.
But theres no rock bands in church! Which is a shame.
Also, at the church i attend, it is around 80% women, now i got no problem with women in church i just have a hard - or impossible - time connecting with all the "softness", and i agree with General, theres too much hands in the air torso swaying for me to get involved.
I think in another time i would of likely been a crusader than a priest, but a good crusader like those in the Kingdom of Heaven film, and they were not white knights before anyone accuses me
That is one of the few things that really trouble me with connecting during worship. I just do not think like that or draw such emotions during song. I dont raise my hands, sway, or cry. Its just not me.
I know that the focus is on God, but there must be better ways for young men to connect. Many guys I know struggle hate the word love to begin with (lol) let alone having to sing out loud with soft music in the background.
I struggle to find Christian music that I like...its just so bleh and vanilla.
I agree that Christianity should be more open and not so emotional and spiritual. Some of my friends think that if they're not crying or raising their hands, they weren't meant to be Christians.
It all comes down to getting the newcomers more familiar with the Bible than any traditions or songs.
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I don't know if this is "whiteknighting" or not but I can say if I make an effort to serve God daily-I see the reciprocity in motivation, ideas and overall peace in my life.
I don't know if this is "whiteknighting" or not but I can say if I make an effort to serve God daily-I see the reciprocity in motivation, ideas and overall peace in my life.
lol thats not white knighting!
white knighting is when a single guy tries anything/everything to get with a girl. like he leaves messages to her on facebook about how pretty her eyes are, etc.
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