Calories seem low

clily · 07-08-2009, 02:31 PM

Ok- I have a trainer that seems to have all the right credentials, including being an NPC Judge and a former competitor. However, I'm not impressed with my diet plan... at all. I've been with her for the past 2 months and so far, my weight has been between 163-166 every two weeks, but my body fat has dropped from 25-15.5... So yeah, her workout plan has been great. She knows my long term goal, which would be a competing next spring in figure, and so my workout/diet regime is (or should be) created with that in mind. Right now, the goal is to build up the shoulder area a bit more, then work on bringing out the lats. Ok, with that being said, I wanted to get some outside advice on the diet part of the plan, as It seems to go against anything/everything I have ever read... So here goes:
My stats:

164, 5'10, 15.5% bf

Diet: (I took the diet plan and figured up the cals and macros individually per meal--although she does it total at end of day to equal 30-50-20)

meal one: 250 cals 44-45-11
meal two: 212 cals 18-50-31
meal three: 298 cals 48-44-8
meal four: 255 cals 36-40-25
meal five: 233 cals 35-57-8
meal six: 104 cals 4-96-0

Total Calories: 1350

Workout: (usually always in afternoon between meal 4 and 5)

mon-fri 5 day split, followed by 30-40 mins of cardio
sat 45 cardio first thing AM
sun off

I mean, obviously, I'm getting results... but my diet is all over the place, because it's hard for me to follow something I think is completely whack...

Any advice would be extremely appreciated!! thanks!

viridian · 07-08-2009, 03:15 PM

Personally.... youve got a ways to go before you should start cutting for competition and Id think anything less than 1500 calories before the start of a competition cut is a little rediculous for someone rather tall and already pretty lean. Plus, that's a ton of exercise for so little calories for ANYONE.

How long have you been following those low calories?

ms_proteinshake · 07-08-2009, 04:21 PM

But what are your goals currently?? Bulking? Leaning out??

Sounds like she's trying to lean you out while retaining your muscle--which is what's happening based on your weight not changing much but your bf% going down.

How's your appetite? Is the lower cals affecting your workouts??

Maybe she has the mentality to get you leaner so when it comes to contest time, you'll already be in good enough shape that you won't have to crash diet.

clily · 07-08-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms_proteinshake

But what are your goals currently?? Bulking? Leaning out??

Sounds like she's trying to lean you out while retaining your muscle--which is what's happening based on your weight not changing much but your bf% going down.

How's your appetite? Is the lower cals affecting your workouts??

Maybe she has the mentality to get you leaner so when it comes to contest time, you'll already be in good enough shape that you won't have to crash diet.

All really good points (thanks), and I agree, she probably has a plan. I just need to figure it out, ha. But I think what is making me question everything, is that I AM hungry and it's starting to affect not only my mood, but also my workouts/lifting. How can I make any gains if Im too weak to increase my weight?! It's almost a 'low blood sugar' type of weak.. when I mentioned it, she revised my diet so Im eating an apple after my workout to help with the light head feeling... it almost seemed kind of half-ass in my opinion. My worry is that if we keeps my cals at this level, would this mean that come prep time, I'm stuck with a shot metabolism??

ms_proteinshake · 07-08-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clily

All really good points (thanks), and I agree, she probably has a plan. I just need to figure it out, ha. But I think what is making me question everything, is that I AM hungry and it's starting to affect not only my mood, but also my workouts/lifting. How can I make any gains if Im too weak to increase my weight?! It's almost a 'low blood sugar' type of weak.. when I mentioned it, she revised my diet so Im eating an apple after my workout to help with the light head feeling... it almost seemed kind of half-ass in my opinion. My worry is that if we keeps my cals at this level, would this mean that come prep time, I'm stuck with a shot metabolism??

The sugars in the apple are good---can help with recovery and replenishing your muscles. Do you mind going into more detail about the food your eating...besides just the cals. Like Meal 1 - Protein, Carb, Fat
Meal 2 - Protein, Carb etc etc.
I'd be interested to see what meals include carbs and fat. Do you have a cheat day or re-feed at all?

kimm4 · 07-08-2009, 10:09 PM

I don't like to step on a trainers toes, but here's my honest opinion. That's a huge deficit for someone with your stats. You're not going to be able to build any muscle with calories that low. The combination of low calories and low healthy fats are why you're feeling so weak. Does she plan on changing your diet anytime soon?

BrandiBurns · 07-09-2009, 04:06 AM

Well... here is my take. First of all as a professional she should be able to answer all your questions and put to ease any worries.

As for my opinion on the approach.... studies have shown that athletes perform the best slightly below their BMR. So it shows that the whole "bulking" concept is missaplied most of the time, and is usually just an excuse to be a pig, and we all know how unhealthy yo yo dieting is.

Having said that... your BMR is around 2000, which puts you at the high end of a relative caloric deficit. Provided there are strategic spikes here and there, you can still gain muscle on this... but you need the refeeds.

As for the numbers "whatever - whatever - whatever". I dont know what you mean by that in terms of what number is which macro. Im guessing its high protien.... if so then... it would totally depend on your body type and that would need to be assessed... most of the time its unnecissary, but the odd person thrives on it.

Heres the thing... if your getting results thats fantastic... but if your workouts are suffering then you need to listen to your body.

twinnett · 07-09-2009, 06:01 AM

I just have to point out though...there's no way you could have lost 10% bodyfat in 2 months and stayed the same weight...you look great, but not 15%, so you have a ways to go and I wouldn't cut cals so hard just yet

clily · 07-09-2009, 09:17 AM

First off, thanks for all the responses, I definitely appreciate everyone taking time out to help me!!

Ms.proteinshake--

Example of diet:

meal one: 1/2 cup oats + 1 scoop of atw fat free whey isolate
meal two: scoop of whey + 2.5 oz blueberries + .5 tbsp flaxoil
meal three: can of albacore tuna + 1 cup of rice + 2 oz broccoli
meal four: scoop of whey + 2.5 oz blueberries (or apple) + .5 tbsp flaxoil
meal five: can of albacore tuna + 1 cup cabbage + .5 tbsp olive oil
meal six: 1 scoop whey

All whey is isolate whey (atw fat free whey)

However, because Im hungry/weak, I've been adding about 4oz of broccoli to dinner.

macro= carb-protein-fat

As far as refeed meals go... Its not anything she has mentioned, but she knows, from looking at my food journal, that once a week, I will have a refeed meal... or just go out to dinner with family or friends. However, when she sees that meal, she is like WTF!?

Brandiburns--

Sorry, the macro is Carb-protein-fat. I agree, I'm not a bulking fan... as someone who has always watched my weight, eating 2000 calories would make me look like a freaking whale, not something Id be for. However, I would think right now my cals would sit more around 1500-1600
I agree that she should be able to answer all of my questions... But thats the thing, when I question stuff, I feel almost as if it upsets her. I'm really nice about it and maybe a little too nice.. It's as if, she doesn't want to tell me... like a 'shut up and just do what I say' attitude. Which is fine, but I want to know why Im doing it... then I'll shut up and do it. ha.

Twinnett--
Ok, you're right that 10% in two months is absurd. However, I was raw food fasting before training with her, so my body was protein depleted... So throwing in all that protein, just tightened me up (like false results, ha)... So it was like 26% at first, then two weeks later, it was at 20%... she said it was just my muscles absorbing all the protein. the other 4.5% has been over the 6 week span. (see below, it goes along with what you were saying as well)

Butterfly_babe--

No, I AGREE. No offense at all... I think, I sit much higher then 15.5%. In fact when she is doing the calipers, Im like "here let me pinch all that fat for you"... or "grab more". haha, seriously! However, since she is the only one who does it, then at least it's consistently inaccurate.. I guess. On the other side though, it's like, if she's inaccurate at measuring body fat, is she also inaccurate in other areas? I hate to be that way, but you know, I'm not paying money for nothing.

ms_proteinshake · 07-09-2009, 10:41 AM

I agree, whey and tuna don't fill you up very well. I would see about more chicken breast and maybe some salmon & lean beef 1-2 times/week.

If you are really unhappy with your trainer---switch! Lots of others out there. Competitors do it all the time.

BrandiBurns · 07-09-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clily

I agree that she should be able to answer all of my questions... But thats the thing, when I question stuff, I feel almost as if it upsets her. I'm really nice about it and maybe a little too nice.. It's as if, she doesn't want to tell me... like a 'shut up and just do what I say' attitude. Which is fine, but I want to know why Im doing it... then I'll shut up and do it. ha.

I wouldnt feel comfortable with that personally. It seems fishy. I mean theres no reason to get upset unless you have something to hide IMO. Its just a question.

clily · 07-09-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly_babe

x2. Tilapia is a great fish as well. Lean turkey breast is also an option.

Ms Proteinshake: Good luck on your upcoming competition. You have great shoulders & overall physique!!!

(yes, Good luck on your upcoming competition!!!)

You know, I never thought about switching the whey for an actual meat instead. Maybe that would also help combat the weakness given the vitamins/minerals from the meat. Ok, Im headed to store tonight to pick up some fish and chicken.

As far as calories go, I talked with my trainer today and she said to bump my protein to 5 oz servings at every meal and that would take my cals up to 1500 level. So, along with that, and replacing whey with whole foods, hopefully I'll get some energy back. If not, I know I should trust my gut and if I continue to feel uneasy about things, I will start looking into other trainers.

Thanks again!

ms_proteinshake · 07-09-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly_babe

x2. Tilapia is a great fish as well. Lean turkey breast is also an option.

Ms Proteinshake: Good luck on your upcoming competition. You have great shoulders & overall physique!!!

Thanks! Just workin on the dreaded glutes! Ha!

Quote:

Originally Posted by clily

(yes, Good luck on your upcoming competition!!!)

You know, I never thought about switching the whey for an actual meat instead. Maybe that would also help combat the weakness given the vitamins/minerals from the meat. Ok, Im headed to store tonight to pick up some fish and chicken.

As far as calories go, I talked with my trainer today and she said to bump my protein to 5 oz servings at every meal and that would take my cals up to 1500 level. So, along with that, and replacing whey with whole foods, hopefully I'll get some energy back. If not, I know I should trust my gut and if I continue to feel uneasy about things, I will start looking into other trainers.

Thanks again!

Ok, good--glad she upped your portions. Sounds like a good plan. Let us know how it goes!!

kimm4 · 07-09-2009, 10:19 PM

Maintenance for you is more like 2300 calories. I've been working in nutrition for over 10 years and I'm pretty good when it comes to numbers.

1500 is still too low and eventually your body is going to stall and you'll hit a plateau.

I never tell anyone what to do, but if it happens I suggest getting your calories up to around 1800...because this is where you should be at for healthy fat loss.

Just because she's an NPC judge and competitor doesn't mean she knows a thing about diets. (not to say she's not great when it comes to her own) But keeping you at such low calories in the 1st place...not even close for someone with your stats.

Good luck I hope it all works out.