RPN Havoc / IBE Epistane for the newbies !

[brady.huskey]

Originally Posted by JonnieRingo

Quick question guys, 1st off this thread is old, but a lot of great information!

I'm starting my first cycle now. Like Blount recommended for newbies. Goes like this:
Week 1 - 10mg / day
Week 2 - 20mg / day
Week 3 - 20 mg / day
Week 4 - 30 mg / day

Questions are: Do I take the 10mg pills at the same time, or spread them out every 6-12 hours or so (on days when I'm taking 2-3 pills of course)? Empty stomach or after a meal? An hour before workout? Is it ok to take Liver Fix / Support DURING cycle or wait til after?

I'm excited about the potential results. I'm 37, 6'3, been stuck at 220-225lbs, training for a few years. Also taking protein (of course), creatine, glutamine and BCAAs. N.O. pre-workout too. Thank you for any help / input. I'm new at this PH/ PS stuff and learning a lot from these boards...

Word of advice...You're going to want to start at 30mg. Yes! At your bodyweight you will probably be fine up to 40mg, even if this is your first cycle. I'd do 30/30/30/40 if you want to be conservative. I'd personally run 30/30/40/40.

[chargerfn909]

Originally Posted by brady.huskey

Word of advice...You're going to want to start at 30mg. Yes! At your bodyweight you will probably be fine up to 40mg, even if this is your first cycle. I'd do 30/30/30/40 if you want to be conservative. I'd personally run 30/30/40/40.

x2, 10mg is TRULY a waste..**** 20 is a waste for your weight (IMO). DO whatever your comfortable with, but I am 6' 220 and 20mg is really a waste of money!

[brady.huskey]

Originally Posted by chargerfn909

Best way to do it is take a pill with a meal containing at least 5-15 grams of fat. So if your taking 30mg one with b/fast, one lunch and of course din! Hope that helps

Also, OP, you don't need fat with every dose. Havoc/Epistane is methylated and thus fat is unnecessary with each dose.

It's highly recommended to eat fat with unmethylated PH/DS, as it helps protect the compound from degradation. If you ever run Bold, this is what you'll do.

[~Hades~]

Originally Posted by JonnieRingo

Quick question guys, 1st off this thread is old, but a lot of great information!

I'm starting my first cycle now. Like Blount recommended for newbies. Goes like this:
Week 1 - 10mg / day
Week 2 - 20mg / day
Week 3 - 20 mg / day
Week 4 - 30 mg / day

Questions are: Do I take the 10mg pills at the same time, or spread them out every 6-12 hours or so (on days when I'm taking 2-3 pills of course)? Empty stomach or after a meal? An hour before workout? Is it ok to take Liver Fix / Support DURING cycle or wait til after?

I'm excited about the potential results. I'm 37, 6'3, been stuck at 220-225lbs, training for a few years. Also taking protein (of course), creatine, glutamine and BCAAs. N.O. pre-workout too. Thank you for any help / input. I'm new at this PH/ PS stuff and learning a lot from these boards...

What are you using for pct?

[JonnieRingo]

Originally Posted by jason-bourne

What are you using for pct?

What would you suggest? Right now all I have is Myogenix Liver Fix, I was told that would be enough. Hemapolin has estrogen blockers so I'm not exactly clear on what else I would need for PCT.

[JonnieRingo]

Originally Posted by brady.huskey

Word of advice...You're going to want to start at 30mg. Yes! At your bodyweight you will probably be fine up to 40mg, even if this is your first cycle. I'd do 30/30/30/40 if you want to be conservative. I'd personally run 30/30/40/40.

Funny you mention that. I've been taking the 1 x 10mg pill for the last 5 days (loading) and haven't really felt much. Increased focus and pump maybe, but not much else. I thought maybe it was because I was taking it with an hour or two after eating. I'll start to up my dosage today. Also, dumb question, but its ok to continue with cycle even on "rest days" right? Thanks for the response and info!

[~Hades~]

Originally Posted by JonnieRingo

What would you suggest? Right now all I have is Myogenix Liver Fix, I was told that would be enough. Hemapolin has estrogen blockers so I'm not exactly clear on what else I would need for PCT.

Who told you that would be enough?

Either get a serm or shoot for an otc setup like this:

Reversitol 3/2/2/1
PCS 0/0/4/4/4/4
Primal Male as directed
Liver Fix

[JonnieRingo]

Originally Posted by jason-bourne

Either get a serm or shoot for an otc setup like this:

Reversitol 3/2/2/1
PCS 0/0/4/4/4/4
Primal Male as directed
Liver Fix

Thanks Jason - will do!

[LAGear]

Originally Posted by jason-bourne

Who told you that would be enough?

Either get a serm or shoot for an otc setup like this:

Reversitol 3/2/2/1
PCS 0/0/4/4/4/4
Primal Male as directed
Liver Fix

For Havoc I'd really encourage you to use a SERM. Some people get really nasty sides from Havoc.

Can you get away with OTC? Maybe. But better safe than sorry.

[HTML_Rulez_D00d]

Originally Posted by LAGear

For Havoc I'd really encourage you to use a SERM. Some people get really nasty sides from Havoc.

Can you get away with OTC? Maybe. But better safe than sorry.

i used reversitol but it took the full 4 weeks for me to recover.

Ill be using a serm next time around. To the guy asking all the questions if your anything like me your going to want to get some taurine because havoc gave me some nasty back pumps.

[sn1ffb0]

Originally Posted by jason-bourne

Who told you that would be enough?

Either get a serm or shoot for an otc setup like this:

Reversitol 3/2/2/1
PCS 0/0/4/4/4/4
Primal Male as directed
Liver Fix

I'm going to do:
Reversitol 3/2/2/1
PCS 4/4/4/4
Bio Forge as directed
Creatine @ 10 grams a day
Liv.52

[Strike-Force]

Not all of us can get ahold of SERM or other such items so we have to settle for what's available.

[LAGear]

Originally Posted by sn1ffb0

I'm going to do:
Reversitol 3/2/2/1
PCS 4/4/4/4
Bio Forge as directed
Creatine @ 10 grams a day
Liv.52

If I were an AI rep I'd tell you to run PCS 0/0/4/4/4/4. They advise you not start until week three.

And I would advice using milk thistle over Liv.52. Based on the research (and fortunately, there's a lot) milk thistle wins hands down.

If you're using Life Support (or similar) on cycle, and you should be, I would also recommend continuing that into PCT.

[LAGear]

Originally Posted by Strike-Force

Not all of us can get ahold of SERM or other such items so we have to settle for what's available.

You are in the United States. You can get any SERM you want with no trouble at all. You can legitimately & legally buy it online. People in other countries have to settle for OTC but people living in the US do not need to settle.

[sn1ffb0]

Originally Posted by LAGear

If I were an AI rep I'd tell you to run PCS 0/0/4/4/4/4. They advise you not start until week three.

And I would advice using milk thistle over Liv.52. Based on the research (and fortunately, there's a lot) milk thistle wins hands down.

If you're using Life Support (or similar) on cycle, and you should be, I would also recommend continuing that into PCT.

I'm only doing a 4 week PCT. I will be getting milk thistle from my cycle support. Will be using throughout the cycle. Forgot to mention that for my PCT.

[DOC]

i just finished my havoc cycle today i ran it 20 30 30 40, BUT i ran it using during a cutt with 11 0x0

i messed around a few times carbing up a bit before workouts and noticed a big difference suprise suprise,

but IMO running havoc at 10 20 20 30 is a total waste of time(of course using it while bulking and having enough carb intake would make it alot better at that dose its still pretty weak IMO)

i personally would run it at 30 40 40 40 if i did it again.

[LAGear]

Originally Posted by sn1ffb0

I'm only doing a 4 week PCT. I will be getting milk thistle from my cycle support. Will be using throughout the cycle. Forgot to mention that for my PCT.

Still, better to start PCS in week three. Technically, your PCT is over when you end your AI or SERM so whether you want to call it four weeks or six weeks is irrelevant. Your goal should be to do PCT right, not to do it in a predetermined time frame. At least that's what makes sense for me.

[sn1ffb0]

Originally Posted by DOC

i just finished my havoc cycle today i ran it 20 30 30 40, BUT i ran it using during a cutt with 11 0x0

i messed around a few times carbing up a bit before workouts and noticed a big difference suprise suprise,

but IMO running havoc at 10 20 20 30 is a total waste of time(of course using it while bulking and having enough carb intake would make it alot better at that dose its still pretty weak IMO)

i personally would run it at 30 40 40 40 if i did it again.

I'm on the Palumbo diet and only can eat around 40 grams of carbs a day. Should I take in most of my carbs pre-workout? I'm going to do a 30/30/40/40 cycle of Havoc with 800/800/800/800/800/800/1000/1000mg's of bold200.

[sn1ffb0]

Originally Posted by LAGear

Still, better to start PCS in week three. Technically, your PCT is over when you end your AI or SERM so whether you want to call it four weeks or six weeks is irrelevant. Your goal should be to do PCT right, not to do it in a predetermined time frame. At least that's what makes sense for me.

Ok, thanks for the help brah.

[Strike-Force]

Originally Posted by LAGear

You are in the United States. You can get any SERM you want with no trouble at all. You can legitimately & legally buy it online. People in other countries have to settle for OTC but people living in the US do not need to settle.

I wasn't aware of that, but then again I'm not to up on these things. After looking at what a SERM was I assumed it was restricted. Feel free to lead in the right direction because I have no clue where to even start.

[DOC]

Originally Posted by sn1ffb0

I'm on the Palumbo diet and only can eat around 40 grams of carbs a day. Should I take in most of my carbs pre-workout? I'm going to do a 30/30/40/40 cycle of Havoc with 800/800/800/800/800/800/1000/1000mg's of bold200.

for my cutt i was eating under 60grams of carbs a day i was doing cardio abs first thing in the morning, i had half my carbs from oats right after that workout then the rest of my carbs came salade and protien shakes threw out the rest of the day.

if you have 40-50 to play with id try to get 20 or so pre workout, then the rest post for proper recovery haha.

its my first time running havoc though i would get some more info from people who have run it a few times im just talking from personal exp and dont want **** things up for you

[galioth13]

i just ran a cycle of havoc... saw great gains, i love it.. i also took clout and body octane while on the cycle... my question is i have clomid and nolvadex on hand.. how much should i take of each? and for how long? and how soon after my cycle! thanks i still have about 4 days left on my cycle

[sn1ffb0]

Originally Posted by DOC

for my cutt i was eating under 60grams of carbs a day i was doing cardio abs first thing in the morning, i had half my carbs from oats right after that workout then the rest of my carbs came salade and protien shakes threw out the rest of the day.

if you have 40-50 to play with id try to get 20 or so pre workout, then the rest post for proper recovery haha.

its my first time running havoc though i would get some more info from people who have run it a few times im just talking from personal exp and dont want **** things up for you

That sounds pretty good. I might change up my diet and add a little more carbs, but still try and keep them low. I might up my carbs to 80 and lower my fat a little bit. I'll see how it goes, but I'll probably add some oats to my pre-workout shake and some oats to my post-workout shake. Maybe a little bit for my PPWO meal. Thanks for the help brah.

[~Hades~]

Originally Posted by sn1ffb0

Liv.52

Originally Posted by LAGear

And I would advice using milk thistle over Liv.52. Based on the research (and fortunately, there's a lot) milk thistle wins hands down.

NAC is better than both Milk Thislte and Liv 52.

Originally Posted by LAGear

You are in the United States. You can get any SERM you want with no trouble at all. You can legitimately & legally buy it online. People in other countries have to settle for OTC but people living in the US do not need to settle.

Huh? Shouldnt that be other way around? Other countries can buy serms otc.

[~Hades~]

Originally Posted by galioth13

i just ran a cycle of havoc... saw great gains, i love it.. i also took clout and body octane while on the cycle... my question is i have clomid and nolvadex on hand.. how much should i take of each? and for how long? and how soon after my cycle! thanks i still have about 4 days left on my cycle

Start the nolva the day after your cycle ends.

Dose the nolva at 30 for a couple days then finish the week at 20. Then 20/10/10 for the next 3 weeks.

[Strike-Force]

Originally Posted by jason-bourne

Huh? Shouldnt that be other way around? Other countries can buy serms otc.

After looking further into it, that is correct. A perscription is required to purchase in the US. Either way, after receiving some assistance I have located a place to buy Clomid at a reasonable price without a perscription. So I believe I may go that route.

[watchfan]

Originally Posted by Strike-Force

After looking further into it, that is correct. A perscription is required to purchase in the US. Either way, after receiving some assistance I have located a place to buy Clomid at a reasonable price without a perscription. So I believe I may go that route.

Hope its pharma as research chems are sketchy as hell

[LAGear]

Originally Posted by jason-bourne

Huh? Shouldnt that be other way around? Other countries can buy serms otc.

Here you can legally buy them as research chems without a prescription.

Originally Posted by watchfan

Hope its pharma as research chems are sketchy as hell

There are reliable research chem sources. Just make sure you use one of them and you'll be fine.

[m189]

idk why this write-up says you can't stack epi with anything. Spawn is an epi stack with 19-Nor.

[youshopatkmart]

Thx for your input I will take it into consideration. I have been reading alot about epi/havoc over the last couple days and ordered my stuff, it should be here soon. I hear alot of good things about Toremifene so I spent the extra money for it. I changed my cycle to the following:
20,30,30,30,30,30,30
30,30,30,30,30,30,30
30,30,30,30,30,30,30
40,40,40,40,40,40,40
which equals one whole bottle of Epi

I have a couple questions before my products show up.
1) Is 120 for 3 days then 90 for 4 days , 60(1 week) 60(1 week) 30(1 week) good enough for Toremifene?
2)When doing the PCT should it be spread out through the day or take it all in the morning at once?
3)I keep hearing about preloading, do you guys think that it is really necessary I have 2 bottles of CEL CS I can use both on my first cycle but I was hoping to be able to just take one serving during the cycle and pct and only use one bottle, so I can save the other bottle for another time. It you really think that I'm better safe then sorry and that I should just use both bottle thats fine I will.

I will be taking:
1 gram sesamin per day on cycle not PCT
Potassium 1+ gram per day
Taurine 2-3 grams per day on cycle
Vitamin E 1+ gram per day
TRIBEX Gold (I was planning on starting week 3 but should I start week1 of my pct)

Dose timing: I heard to try to keep your liver support about 4 hours from the Epi
6:30 AM Epi 10mg
10:30 AM Liv 52, Cycle Support, Sesamin
2:30 PM Epi 10mg
5:30 PM Epi 10mg/20mg (Pre-Workout)
10:30 PM Liv 52, Cycle Support, Sesamin

I know I have alot of questions, sorry I am just trying to learn and want to make sure everything is perfect, but I feel I am ready for my first cycle. Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance. I can keep a log of my first cycle if anyone is interested.