Workout to get shredded, not massive

EpicurusFlame · 05-25-2009, 11:48 AM

To be honest i'd much rather have a Brad Pitt "Troy" or "Fight Club" type body than an Arnold or Sly Stallone body. Seeing as i've started Rippetoes starting strength, i'm worried that i'm heading down the mass approach, and I don't really want to.

If I wanted to get a tighter, more ripped body instead of a massive bulky body what should I do differently? Higher reps?

ChAoSandPAIN · 05-25-2009, 11:54 AM

The workout itself isn't the issue, though Starting Strength is a ****ty program for anyone but the totally detrained. Your diet is what will get you ripped, and your rep range has very little to do with it. The condition of being ripped depends entirely on your bodyfat. I maintain 5-6% bodyfat consistently and never do over three reps if I can possibly help it- I usually do singles with short rests and 90-95% of my 1RM.

If you want to look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club, you might want to try the PaleoDiet, the Warrior Diet, or do the Velocity Diet and then find a stasis diet you like.

EpicurusFlame · 05-25-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChAoSandPAIN

The workout itself isn't the issue, though Starting Strength is a ****ty program for anyone but the totally detrained. Your diet is what will get you ripped, and your rep range has very little to do with it. The condition of being ripped depends entirely on your bodyfat. I maintain 5-6% bodyfat consistently and never do over three reps if I can possibly help it- I usually do singles with short rests and 90-95% of my 1RM.

If you want to look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club, you might want to try the PaleoDiet, the Warrior Diet, or do the Velocity Diet and then find a stasis diet you like.

See here's what i'm worried about: I worked out hardcore last summer and throughout fall semester, but I kinda dropped the ball ever since Christmas break. Not that I haven't worked out at all, but I haven't worked nearly as much as I need to, and i've lost a lot of my gains.

That said, I thought Starting Strength would be a great way to jump back into things, but all the stuff about being for total noobs scares me. I don't need to get the form down for anything, i'd consider myself an intermediate lifter as far as experience goes....just a beginner when it comes to progress. The reason I thought SS would mainly help me is I always did a split workout, and never did squats, deadlifts, or cleans....so since evidently those are important exercises I thought i'd give SS a shot....but i'm thinking that it is just too light a load for a full body day.

3 exercises, 3 sets of five? I seriously do that in 10-15 minutes.

Should I look into something else?

EpicurusFlame · 05-25-2009, 12:23 PM

Actually, after looking at the intermediate 5x5 workout on MadCow's page it looks really similar to SS with the exception of being 2 more sets per workout.

Would doing SS with 5x5 instead of 3x5 be a good idea?

hankst · 05-25-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicurusFlame

3 exercises, 3 sets of five? I seriously do that in 10-15 minutes.

Then you're doing it wrong. Warm up sets, more weight, rest? Seriously, Squats alone (5 Sets in my case) take me 15+ minutes to complete...

Edit: But I do 2 Warm up sets @ 10, and 3 work sets @ 10 reps..

ChAoSandPAIN · 05-25-2009, 12:34 PM

I disagree. I usually do sets of 1-3 reps with 90% or more of my 1RM, and never take more than 90 secs rest.

Rippetoe's volume is laughably low.

ptwa9 · 05-25-2009, 01:23 PM

Fuck you all. I'm heading on over to thatemolook. That ****'s banging.

EpicurusFlame · 05-25-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChAoSandPAIN

I disagree. I usually do sets of 1-3 reps with 90% or more of my 1RM, and never take more than 90 secs rest.

Rippetoe's volume is laughably low.

Yeah I don't get how the rippetoe's SS program could exceed 20 minutes, unless you are having ridiculously long rest times. I don't really do warm up sets, I just go right into it, and I try not to rest more than a minute between sets.

I'm thinking I need a full body routine with more volume than SS...

zephed56 · 05-25-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicurusFlame

3 exercises, 3 sets of five? I seriously do that in 10-15 minutes.

Should I look into something else?

Do you really think people would be recommending it if it were so easy to do? True the first few workouts aren't terribly demanding, but you just give it a week and you'll be wondering whether you can complete the next workout or whether you're going to die getting the next squat rep up. And lol at you guys who don't do warm up sets, that's pretty ****ing stupid. You need warmups to prepare your body for lifting heavy ass weights, and you should actually see improvements in performance after being warmed up.

When you're legitimately squatting in the ballpark of 300 lbs (or whatever is heavy for you) for 3 sets of 5, I promise you it won't take 10-15 minutes (for squats alone) and I promise you you won't be wondering whether it is enough work. That is a lot of stress. The guy who called it ****ty has obviously never tried it before himself or feels some kind of backlash because it is so popular.

And I highly doubt you don't need help on form. Anyone who says that about squats obviously isn't doing them right or to correct depth. Form is very important and is always a major issue. I know of plenty of guys squatting in the 300's for reps, DL'ing in the 400's and 500's for reps, who are constantly working on form issues.

Also, I think most of you guys are just too scared to lift something heavy, so you replace the heavy with volume. Not the same thing and will not produce the same results.

RavensFan2k3 · 05-25-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicurusFlame

Yeah I don't get how the rippetoe's SS program could exceed 20 minutes, unless you are having ridiculously long rest times. I don't really do warm up sets, I just go right into it, and I try not to rest more than a minute between sets.

I'm thinking I need a full body routine with more volume than SS...

How about you try it for awhile first before bashing it?

Cyoungin101 · 05-25-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicurusFlame

To be honest i'd much rather have a Brad Pitt "Troy" or "Fight Club" type body than an Arnold or Sly Stallone body. Seeing as i've started Rippetoes starting strength, i'm worried that i'm heading down the mass approach, and I don't really want to.

If I wanted to get a tighter, more ripped body instead of a massive bulky body what should I do differently? Higher reps?

Instead of 1-2 seconds from bottom to top of each rep try 3-4 seconds up and 3-4 seconds down, this added time will help burn more calories during your workout and will increase the amount of calories you burn outside of the gym.

I see so many guys with muscle mass but no muscle tone and it seems to go hand and hand with how they throw up a high weight as fast as possible for just a couple reps. Make sure that EVERY part of EVERY muscle is involved with EVERY rep, just slow it down and you'll see some legitimate results without any changes in weights or reps, which can be changed later on.

EpicurusFlame · 05-25-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zephed56

Do you really think people would be recommending it if it were so easy to do? True the first few workouts aren't terribly demanding, but you just give it a week and you'll be wondering whether you can complete the next workout or whether you're going to die getting the next squat rep up. And lol at you guys who don't do warm up sets, that's pretty ****ing stupid. You need warmups to prepare your body for lifting heavy ass weights, and you should actually see improvements in performance after being warmed up.

When you're legitimately squatting in the ballpark of 300 lbs (or whatever is heavy for you) for 3 sets of 5, I promise you it won't take 10-15 minutes (for squats alone) and I promise you you won't be wondering whether it is enough work. That is a lot of stress. The guy who called it ****ty has obviously never tried it before himself or feels some kind of backlash because it is so popular.

And I highly doubt you don't need help on form. Anyone who says that about squats obviously isn't doing them right or to correct depth. Form is very important and is always a major issue. I know of plenty of guys squatting in the 300's for reps, DL'ing in the 400's and 500's for reps, who are constantly working on form issues.

Also, I think most of you guys are just too scared to lift something heavy, so you replace the heavy with volume. Not the same thing and will not produce the same results.

Anyone who says what about squats? My form is fine. I am not claiming to lift a lot, I realize I am weak, but I do know that my form is good. And as far as warm-up sets, I feel like it doesn't do anything for me, so please tell me why I am wrong....and what percent of your full weight a warm-up set would be.

CaptainGorgeous · 05-25-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicurusFlame

That said, I thought Starting Strength would be a great way to jump back into things, but all the stuff about being for total noobs scares me. I don't need to get the form down for anything, i'd consider myself an intermediate lifter as far as experience goes....just a beginner when it comes to progress. The reason I thought SS would mainly help me is I always did a split workout, and never did squats, deadlifts, or cleans....so since evidently those are important exercises I thought i'd give SS a shot....but i'm thinking that it is just too light a load for a full body day.

If you are a beginner when it becomes to progress, then for the sake of figuring out how to program your workouts, you are still in the novice stage. Rippetoe's program is the best novice program I've seen for strength and mass (though I don't believe it is the best program for aspiring bodybuilders). Since you are not a bodybuilder and are just trying to get cut up (which involves having some muscle), this program sounds like it will work for you.

btw, how can you say you don't need to get form down if you've never squatted or deadlifted?

Kiwi_Fella · 05-25-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicurusFlame

To be honest i'd much rather have a Brad Pitt "Troy" or "Fight Club" type body than an Arnold or Sly Stallone body. Seeing as i've started Rippetoes starting strength, i'm worried that i'm heading down the mass approach, and I don't really want to.

If I wanted to get a tighter, more ripped body instead of a massive bulky body what should I do differently? Higher reps?

You're worried your're heading down the mass approach? haha, that mad me laugh. You do realise packing on muscle is one of the hardest damm things to do on this earth? Unless you are fortunate enough to be blessed genetically, you have no need to worry about going down the mass road my friend

xaltair · 05-26-2009, 12:25 AM

Lots of cardio, high rep low weight exercises, must train at least 5-6 days in the gym.

zuche · 05-26-2009, 12:38 AM

u have to put on a lot of mass first...could be years for the average person without using any cutting gear...brad pitt had a lot of lean muscle, when ur bf is that low its hard to show gains..so don't worry about getting like arnold lmao it won't happen over night, or in ur life for that matter ; )

zephed56 · 05-26-2009, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicurusFlame

Anyone who says what about squats? My form is fine. I am not claiming to lift a lot, I realize I am weak, but I do know that my form is good. And as far as warm-up sets, I feel like it doesn't do anything for me, so please tell me why I am wrong....and what percent of your full weight a warm-up set would be.

When someone says something like their squat form is good, no question, I don't have to worry about it...it's obvious they are not aware of the many issues involved in a proper squat and instead just go down and up and think it's great. It is not so, and anyone who regularly trains the squat will tell you there is always something that needs a little fixing. I know many very strong squatters, and they deal with these issues all the time. Instead of getting defensive, why don't you take an honest look at your squat. Video it from a couple angles, and maybe get some critiques on it.

Here's an example warmup for a 3x5x275 lb squat session:
8x95, 5x135, 3x185, 1x225, 1x245

Your central nervous system needs the practice at lighter weights to warmup up and become more efficient at the movement. Your joints need to warmup to get the tendons and ligaments prepared for work, and to get the fluids moving in the joint. Your muscles need to warmup and become more flexible and pliable. Your general body temperature needs to be elevated as well to prepare for the work.

Warming up will make you more limber, less likely to be injured, and give you greater potential to provide force to the bar.

zephed56 · 05-26-2009, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyoungin101

Instead of 1-2 seconds from bottom to top of each rep try 3-4 seconds up and 3-4 seconds down, this added time will help burn more calories during your workout and will increase the amount of calories you burn outside of the gym.

I see so many guys with muscle mass but no muscle tone and it seems to go hand and hand with how they throw up a high weight as fast as possible for just a couple reps. Make sure that EVERY part of EVERY muscle is involved with EVERY rep, just slow it down and you'll see some legitimate results without any changes in weights or reps, which can be changed later on.

You can ensure that every part of every muscle is involved with every rep by using heavy ass weights and trying to move that heavy ass sucker as fast as possible.

You'll see legitimate results by adding weight to the already heavy ass weighted bar on a regular basis. You'll also see faster strength gains by moving heavy things as hard and fast as possible, as opposed to deliberately slowing down a rep.

tonni · 05-26-2009, 06:19 AM

[QUOTE=ChAoSandPAIN;334594851]The workout itself isn't the issue, though Starting Strength is a ****ty program for anyone but the totally detrained. Your diet is what will get you ripped, and your rep range has very little to do with it. The condition of being ripped depends entirely on your bodyfat. THIS.......^^^^^

EpicurusFlame · 05-26-2009, 08:26 AM

Thanks for the input everyone, I appreciate it. And sorry for miscommunicating; I have done squats and deadlifts, and I have read up on many sources and watched many videos on how to do them correctly.....and I feel the appropriate burn when I do them. I simply haven't worked them into my routine on a regular basis....because well, I hate doing them. I didn't realize until recently that they are so important, so I am trying to make them a part of my routine.

I'm open to criticism on my form, but telling me my form is bad when you have never even seen me squat or deadlift is pretty ignorant. But thanks for the input on the warmup sets, i'll keep them in mind when lifting from now on.

irish27 · 05-26-2009, 09:29 AM

What is the 'appropriate burn when doing them?'

EpicurusFlame · 05-26-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish27

What is the 'appropriate burn when doing them?'

Quads, glutes and lower back mainly. I just remember reading on the starting strength FAQ that a lot of people don't feel it in their quads, and this is because they don't go low enough. I go about as far down as humanly possible with a little lighter weight just to make sure i'm going down far enough.

craze9 · 05-26-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicurusFlame

Yeah I don't get how the rippetoe's SS program could exceed 20 minutes, unless you are having ridiculously long rest times. I don't really do warm up sets, I just go right into it, and I try not to rest more than a minute between sets.

I'm thinking I need a full body routine with more volume than SS...

You are obviously not doing this program correctly.

First of all, do warm-up sets. They should be ramped up close to the weight of your worksets, but should be relatively low reps and easy to perform. Someone already posted a good example warm-up on this thread.

I also doubt you are lifting heavy enough, given that you say you completed the program in 20 minutes. Have you actually done this or is it a projection? You should be resting 3-4 minutes between most work sets. If you can get 3 sets of 5 with only 60 or 90 seconds rest then the weights certainly aren't heavy enough.

You say in one post that you are weak, that you've taken some time off recently... if so Rippetoe's is one of the best ways to quickly get your strength up. Don't worry about adding volume or tweaking things until you have run the program and started missing reps.

I honestly don't understand why anyone would want to mess around with this program... if it works that means you're adding 5lbs to your lifts every workout, so three times a week - that is 15lbs per week! Extremely good progress. Don't even consider changing anything until it stops working!!

irish27 · 05-26-2009, 12:13 PM

Well I need at least 5 minutes between my sets sometimes even 8 to make sure I get the full 5 reps in the next set. So I think you should be upping the weight mate!

EpicurusFlame · 05-26-2009, 05:50 PM

Well I just got back from my second day doing Starting Strength. I did what you guys said to do and did two warmup sets before each exercise, and I tried extending my rests to three minutes.

Three minutes was just way too long though. I read that anything past two minutes doesn't do any more for you, no matter how hard you lift. Regardless, I stuck in the 60-90 second range.

The squat/deadlift combo is money; my legs and lower back feel destroyed....but I feel like just flat bench isn't doing enough for the chest. I'm thinking about throwing in some incline next time it's bench day.

Though I don't feel as annihilated as I do on a hardcore split, I do feel more all-around fatigued. Thanks for the contributions guys.

craze9 · 05-26-2009, 06:02 PM

How much are you benching? Are you sure you couldn't get all 15 reps with a heavier weight?

There is a big difference between resting 90 seconds and resting 3 minutes.

EpicurusFlame · 05-26-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craze9

How much are you benching? Are you sure you couldn't get all 15 reps with a heavier weight?

There is a big difference between resting 90 seconds and resting 3 minutes.

Today I warmed up with 90 and worked out with 125. And yes.

I realize i'm not that strong, for some reason mass comes a lot easier to me than strength. Regardless, last summer I started out seriously working out with 90 pounds, and then I peaked at 145 and have declined since.

I really don't see the extra rest time being that beneficial though, but then again what do I know.

Bdawg22 · 05-26-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicurusFlame

To be honest i'd much rather have a Brad Pitt "Troy" or "Fight Club" type body than an Arnold or Sly Stallone body. Seeing as i've started Rippetoes starting strength, i'm worried that i'm heading down the mass approach, and I don't really want to.

If I wanted to get a tighter, more ripped body instead of a massive bulky body what should I do differently? Higher reps?

Alright, here is the problem with your concern. First...it takes years to get as big as Arnold or Stallone...So i wouldn't worry about getting too big, because that is not a concern. 2nd There is no "different look" in muscle, muscle is muscle you cant change how it looks when it grows. The only difference is the percentage of body fat you have as opposed to the muscle you have. So in order to be brad Pitt in troy, gain 15 lbs of muscle through bulking and then lose all but 7-9 or 10% of your body fat. And by the way Arnold/Stallone are just far more advanced body builders then brad Pitt in troy or fight club. If Arnold or Stallone would shed 20-60 lbs of muscle or whatever they need to shed, they'd have the same physique.

Retardo-pex · 05-26-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicurusFlame

To be honest i'd much rather have a Brad Pitt "Troy" or "Fight Club" type body than an Arnold or Sly Stallone body. Seeing as i've started Rippetoes starting strength, i'm worried that i'm heading down the mass approach, and I don't really want to.

If I wanted to get a tighter, more ripped body instead of a massive bulky body what should I do differently? Higher reps?

You say it like you are going to be 250 lbs in a few weeks of training a certain way. You aren't going to look like any of the things you want to if you have the physique of a marathin runner. Get some size, get some strength, then cut your body fat down and judge how you look, if you aren;t where you want to be rinse and repeat.

EpicurusFlame · 05-26-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retardo-pex

You say it like you are going to be 250 lbs in a few weeks of training a certain way. You aren't going to look like any of the things you want to if you have the physique of a marathin runner. Get some size, get some strength, then cut your body fat down and judge how you look, if you aren;t where you want to be rinse and repeat.

Alright since i'm getting a lot of these responses, i'll clarify what I was saying.

I didn't know "muscle is muscle". I was under the conviction that you can train one way to get tight, lean muscle and another way to get less dense, but massive, muscle.

I never wanted to sound like it would happen overnight; I was simply saying I didn't want to travel down that road and end up wishing I did things a different way.