Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman

oli1982 · 05-23-2009, 05:25 AM

and arnold schwarzenegger for that matter all take/took steroids, this is fact.

My question is this , should we be admirers of jay,ronnie, and arnie knowing full well they've built up their impressive physics through the use of steroids. The majority of us tend to be proponents of the natural bodybuilder, so in admiring these guys arent we then saying that we support the use of steroids in bodybuilding.

Im not sure if this topic has been discussed or not I am new to this website and would like constructive discussion on this issue if it hasn?t, I have not meant to offend anyone this is merely my observation.

WhAtNoWbChSs · 05-23-2009, 05:36 AM

steroids are a big part of bodybuilding. most "natural" guys take them too but wont admit it.

masssmonster · 05-23-2009, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli1982

and arnold schwarzenegger for that matter all take/took steroids, this is fact.

My question is this , should we be admirers of jay,ronnie, and arnie knowing full well they've built up their impressive physics through the use of steroids. The majority of us tend to be proponents of the natural bodybuilder, so in admiring these guys arent we then saying that we support the use of steroids in bodybuilding.

Im not sure if this topic has been discussed or not I am new to this website and would like constructive discussion on this issue if it hasn?t, I have not meant to offend anyone this is merely my observation.

wow finally a thread about ronnie,jay, arnold and steroids...

IwillBaMonster · 05-23-2009, 06:14 AM

Staliyo_Lycan · 05-23-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli1982

and arnold schwarzenegger for that matter all take/took steroids, this is fact.

My question is this , should we be admirers of jay,ronnie, and arnie knowing full well they've built up their impressive physics through the use of steroids. The majority of us tend to be proponents of the natural bodybuilder, so in admiring these guys arent we then saying that we support the use of steroids in bodybuilding.

Im not sure if this topic has been discussed or not I am new to this website and would like constructive discussion on this issue if it hasn?t, I have not meant to offend anyone this is merely my observation.

yes we should admire them, even if some/most people do not want to look like that it is still a respected body and yeah... we should admire it

Whey Hey · 05-23-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IwillBaMonster

This.

OP, Jay and Ronnie dont just inject some test e in the morning, have a few snacks, train moderately and then wake up a week later with huge muscle gains.... they work just as hard as natural bodybuilders.... its just that all the compounds they take allow for quicker recovery and greater potential for muscle growth, thats all....

All athletes in most sports take steroids, but people are blinded by their successes, and fail to realize that steroids have probably been a factor.... whereas with bodybuilding, almost all non-bbers believe that we are all on steroids, so its more of a stigma with bodybuilding than other sports.... but my point is that if we dont respect Ronnie or Jay for what they do, we shouldnt respect the population of steroid-taking athletes in other sports, which is growing constantly.... although in the Olympics etc, it actually is an unfair advantage, wheres in bodybuilding, some people suck even with roids..

**strength777** · 05-23-2009, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli1982

The majority of us tend to be proponents of the natural bodybuilder,
.

well i can tell you right now that is not true.

I personally train with a guy who competes in "natural" competitions. You know what he ran with his bulk before cutting? test and deca. and you know what he ran during contest prep? GH and clen.

Whey Hey · 05-23-2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strength_77

well i can tell you right now that is not true.

I personally train with a guy who competes in "natural" competitions. You know what he ran with his bulk before cutting? test and deca. and you know what he ran during contest prep? GH and clen.

Yeah but whats the point in that? I would feel terrible if i got beat by a 100% clean competitor and i knew that i juiced throughout my contest prep.... i would feel pretty dam pathetic.... and no matter what anyone says, that is DEFINATELY unfair.... and quite incredulous really, i cant comprehend why someone would want to do that, maybe they feel inferior compared to bigger guys on AAS, and just want the satisfaction of winning instead of getting their asses handed to them? Pretty sad..

Ajk_Lpool · 05-23-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strength_77

well i can tell you right now that is not true.

I personally train with a guy who competes in "natural" competitions. You know what he ran with his bulk before cutting? test and deca. and you know what he ran during contest prep? GH and clen.

Don't you feel obliged to tell him he is a cheat and has no right to compete in natural bodybuilding contests?

I personally knew a young guy round my area - was 16 at the time, running numerous compounds. Came into my work telling us how he was going to compete and destroy all the naturals in the juniors. To be honest, he still looked terrible considering what he had took. Eventually he pulled out with 4 weeks to go, made some excuse up. But I was still going to ring the federation up and tell them if he had went ahead on competing, as it's no fair and just downright cheating to the other competitors.

LevroneFan2002 · 05-23-2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli1982

My question is this , should we be admirers of jay,ronnie, and arnie knowing full well they've built up their impressive physics through the use of steroids.

Yes, because they have impressive physiques. For whatever reason they have those physiques, they are impressive and standout from the billions on planet Earth, thus that's a case to admire their physiques.

In terms of admiring the individual themselves, that depends on a million things. I could admire them for their hard work, dedication, personality, genetics, facial looks, posing styles, etc.

With regards to your last sentence, they built their impressive physiques through steroids + ad finitum other things. That would be like me saying that I am 5' 10" because of my mother. But it takes two to tango.

Alfz · 05-23-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whey Hey

Yeah but whats the point in that? I would feel terrible if i got beat by a 100% clean competitor and i knew that i juiced throughout my contest prep.... i would feel pretty dam pathetic.... and no matter what anyone says, that is DEFINATELY unfair.... and quite incredulous really, i cant comprehend why someone would want to do that, maybe they feel inferior compared to bigger guys on AAS, and just want the satisfaction of winning instead of getting their asses handed to them? Pretty sad..

And how would you know that winner is 100% clean?

Duckenheimer · 05-23-2009, 11:07 AM

We don't have to admire them. But they have made extreme achievements, which are definitely worthy of admiration.

caleb56 · 05-23-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whey Hey

Yeah but whats the point in that? I would feel terrible if i got beat by a 100% clean competitor and i knew that i juiced throughout my contest prep.... i would feel pretty dam pathetic.... and no matter what anyone says, that is DEFINATELY unfair.... and quite incredulous really, i cant comprehend why someone would want to do that, maybe they feel inferior compared to bigger guys on AAS, and just want the satisfaction of winning instead of getting their asses handed to them? Pretty sad..

Thats not sad, I dont see how you can see it as sad if the competitor takes something to improve his performace. He takes all the risk and if caught gets banned for life and not to mention the name it puts on him. The nature of a competitor is to be a winner no matter what, if your not willing to go the extra yard for the win than you may not be much of a competitor.

The sad part is when they pass themselves off as natural to make everyone think they are genetic freaks.

Whey Hey · 05-23-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfz

And how would you know that winner is 100% clean?

How do we know we live in an objective reality? Maybe we live in a Matrix?

How do we know natural competitors are natural? errm becaue the federations are polygraph tested, and other tests are administered...

But lets just assume they all roid because bodybuilding=roiding right?

Newbtime · 05-23-2009, 11:27 AM

oli1982 · 05-24-2009, 01:44 AM

I think its true in all sports at the elite levels steriods are used and bodybuilidng is no different, but bodybuilding as a sport in allowing steroid use(is this a fair comment), causes grassroot issues because the non-elite non-competitive gym goer sees steroids as being acceptable, the ordinary sunday park football player for example wont get on the roids to boost his performance and maybe this is why bodybuilding has recieved alot of negative publicity.

Either way ronnie, jay, and arnie have unbelievable pysiques and have put in countless hours both in and away from the gym, Ive just always thought if you support these guys ipso facto you support steroids in bodybuilding.

AlasTTTair · 05-24-2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli1982

and arnold schwarzenegger for that matter all take/took steroids, this is fact.

My question is this , should we be admirers of jay,ronnie, and arnie knowing full well they've built up their impressive physics through the use of steroids. The majority of us tend to be proponents of the natural bodybuilder, so in admiring these guys arent we then saying that we support the use of steroids in bodybuilding.

Im not sure if this topic has been discussed or not I am new to this website and would like constructive discussion on this issue if it hasn?t, I have not meant to offend anyone this is merely my observation.

Jesus Christ! OK mate, FFS, steroids are not a big deal. Without them bodybuilding would be very boring. Would you want to see a 190lb ripped Ronnie Coleman on stage or a 300lb ripped Ronnie Coleman?

And the majority on here are natural? Well maybe steroids are illegal in your country mate, but certainly not in mine. I and indeed a huge number of people on uk bbing forums use steroids safely and I've progressed like crazy since I took the big step. You know why? Because they work!!

So...no pro bodybuilder is cheating as they all use steroids! Pro bodybuilding is so amazing because all the athletes are assisted. If they weren't it would be ****e. If you don't want to support steroid use or watch pro bb then don't do it, but jesus christ, what's wrong with supporting steroids in bbing or any sport for that matter?

Big Slim DaDDy · 05-24-2009, 02:50 AM

Do what you want. People idolize other people for different reasons not everyone chooses the same role models.

Sapper599 · 05-24-2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli1982

I think its true in all sports at the elite levels steriods are used and bodybuilidng is no different, but bodybuilding as a sport in allowing steroid use(is this a fair comment), causes grassroot issues because the non-elite non-competitive gym goer sees steroids as being acceptable, the ordinary sunday park football player for example wont get on the roids to boost his performance and maybe this is why bodybuilding has recieved alot of negative publicity.

Either way ronnie, jay, and arnie have unbelievable pysiques and have put in countless hours both in and away from the gym, Ive just always thought if you support these guys ipso facto you support steroids in bodybuilding.

I support steroids period. I think they are under researched. Sports and bodybuilding seems to be providing us with the research though. I don't believe kids should be using them but i believe they are a fountain of youth for our older population. Whats so bad about steroid use for older and middle age guys?

MuscleSportMag · 05-24-2009, 12:39 PM

Looking up to guys that took juice is not like wanting to emulate Charles Manson. Is Josh Hamilton so much more of a hero and an inspiration b/c he was a crack-head and a thief before cleaning himself up?

I'm sure the majority of the next generation will be so scared of steroids by what is being pumped into them now with all the negative attention that they won't even want to try them. There is so much propaganda with A-Rod, Bonds, etc. that steroids are being viewed as the almighty evil. While people who are informed know a lot of that is not accurate, most don't.

realistromeo · 05-24-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli1982

My question is this , should we be admirers of jay,ronnie, and arnie knowing full well they've built up their impressive physics through the use of steroids.

You admirin Jay?

It depends on your definition of admire, from a purely obsevational standpoint one can admire that physique at face value. Yes i can admire the Impressivity of their physiques and can pull for another BB to come out on top..

This does not lend my support to the use of illicit substances....but then again i could care less what the next guy is using because i aint in a competition.

fantell · 05-25-2009, 01:24 AM

media has emphasised the cheat aspect of steroids regarding the olympics which is cheating and they are meant to be amatuer too...taking steroids is not breaking ifbb rules.its not cheating.Ronnie Coleman is 290lbs natural compare that to the top natural guys and you realise the work that went into his physique.its just incredible effort .

Darren in Gym · 05-25-2009, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whey Hey

Yeah but whats the point in that? I would feel terrible if i got beat by a 100% clean competitor and i knew that i juiced throughout my contest prep.... i would feel pretty dam pathetic.... and no matter what anyone says, that is DEFINATELY unfair.... and quite incredulous really, i cant comprehend why someone would want to do that, maybe they feel inferior compared to bigger guys on AAS, and just want the satisfaction of winning instead of getting their asses handed to them? Pretty sad..

100% agreed, there are plenty of untested feds out there that an assisted bodybuilder can compete in, why would u want to go up against true naturals, whats the point, coz ur cheating (yeah cheating by taking compounds and then competing in a natty show). There are untested feds were u can take whatever u want and get 100% away with it. Guess the only problem is that your competitors are taking it as well lol

ign_fan_4life · 05-25-2009, 11:56 AM

Even in 2002 this topic wouldn't have been interesting or "new". We know pro's take steroids. We admire them regardless.

/thread

Lifter4Life59 · 05-25-2009, 12:02 PM

All the pros do them, but Arnold said before anyone takes steroids they should push their body to the fullest natural physique possible. Most pros do not run steroids the minute they decided to start training. And should we admire them? Yes, why not? They still bust their butts in the gym to get the full effects of steroids

BigChamp89 · 05-25-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli1982

and arnold schwarzenegger for that matter all take/took steroids, this is fact.

My question is this , should we be admirers of jay,ronnie, and arnie knowing full well they've built up their impressive physics through the use of steroids. The majority of us tend to be proponents of the natural bodybuilder, so in admiring these guys arent we then saying that we support the use of steroids in bodybuilding.

Im not sure if this topic has been discussed or not I am new to this website and would like constructive discussion on this issue if it hasn?t, I have not meant to offend anyone this is merely my observation.

i have just negged you into the red.

My question is, should we neg you more into the red? or should a mod ban your ***got ass?

sheva · 05-29-2009, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantell

media has emphasised the cheat aspect of steroids regarding the olympics which is cheating and they are meant to be amatuer too...taking steroids is not breaking ifbb rules.its not cheating.Ronnie Coleman is 290lbs natural compare that to the top natural guys and you realise the work that went into his physique.its just incredible effort .

290 pounds natural come on man you gotta be crazy