Dhea

[mountainplumbing]

I've found some info on the net about this stuff. Kinda was thinking about it. It is banned for college football and olympic sports.(unfair advantage they say) Then I also read research that says the stuff is just very overrated and can cause problems. Then I was in Walmart and seen a bottle of it on the shelf. Does anyone have anything to say about DHEA that might help me with taking this stuff or not? I'm on the fench.

[Marius_Ursus]

It's all propaganda. It's banned because of the Mark McGuire Myth. You'd be better off eating more beef.

[dkemano42]

Originally Posted by mountainplumbing

I've found some info on the net about this stuff. Kinda was thinking about it. It is banned for college football and olympic sports.(unfair advantage they say) Then I also read research that says the stuff is just very overrated and can cause problems. Then I was in Walmart and seen a bottle of it on the shelf. Does anyone have anything to say about DHEA that might help me with taking this stuff or not? I'm on the fench.

From M& F Magazine; Produced by the adrenal glands, the hormone DHEA is involved in several important physiological processes in the body. These include supporting insulin function, increasing bone density, promoting mental health and of course, working as a precursor for testosterone. Research has found that DHEA helps reduce body fat, particularly from the midsection; it also increases levels of IGF-1 critical for muscle growth. DHEA levels can start to decline in the early 20?s in males who train intensely; supplementation can help add mass and strength as well as reduce body fat. Doseage should be 25-100 mg twice per day.

I take it just cause I am getting older, and figure it prob cant hurt. Has not caused any side effects that I can tell and I figure it can only help...

DK

[ironwill2008]

Five years ago, it was the "Hot new supplement." After a year or so, no one was making any gains from it, and it fell out of favor, much like the "Flavor of the day" supplement of today will, in a few months.

That being said, there will always be someone who will claim to make big gains from using just about anything. Bottom line--try it, and see if it does anything for you. Let the buyer beware, though.

Marius advised to eat more beef; I'd go with that.

[thruxton]

Originally Posted by ironwill2008

..Let the buyer beware, though.

if you like estrogen, go for it.

i'm with the eat food instead group =)

[boodog]

I use it and seem to have trimed my waist line a bit....it is really tough to determine cause and effect.....I researched it a few months back.....my wifes hormone Doctor (Md) says it should be included in older males and females....and made a good case for taking it in "Modest" 25-50mg. doses....have felt no side effects....

[KLMARB]

The real question is, are you currently testing low for DHEA? The point is, that its beneficial if your body is not producing enough, so a test before using is the way to go....

[mountainplumbing]

Originally Posted by thruxton

if you like estrogen, go for it.

i'm with the eat food instead group =)

I did read it has two chances of becoming estrogen. Nice tit's would be bad.

[x-trainer ben]

my budy who is a natural competitor swears by it and a multivitamin and is 39.

he just cam in second in a ny pro natural show.

[partsRheavy]

I tried it last year for a couple of months. Didn't notice much difference with it or after stopping it. I'm 10 years older, and from what I've read, it's more beneficial for older folks.

You might want to get blood work to see whether or not your level is low before taking it.

[MuscleBeachNC]

If you want to learn more about DHEA, there is/was a professor at UNC Greensboro who used all of his research money to study about DHEA and its benefits. I can't recall his name but the guy was in his 40's and was a bodybuilder. He swore by the stuff.

I've tried it and saw no benefit. Eat right and lift hard is the way to go IMHO.

[greyhair]

Originally Posted by thruxton

if you like estrogen, go for it.

i'm with the eat food instead group =)

x2

Useless for healthy men, and only increases estrogen.
For women, it will likely increase testosterone.

IMHO, only Creatine has any value.

[BigSlick-------]

I have been researching the stuff, ordered some from right here on bodybuilding.com(plug). Its cheap and I thought it wouldn't hurt to give it a shot. I also ordered some zma, going to run it with the dhea.

[dmangiarelli]

A quick Google search yielded a wealth of information. Most notably the following:

In the United States, DHEA or DHEAS have been advertised with claims that they may be beneficial for a wide variety of ailments. DHEA and DHEAS are readily available in the United States, where they are marketed as over-the-counter dietary supplements.[25] A 2004 review in the American Journal of Sports Medicine concluded that "The marketing of this supplement's effectiveness far exceeds its science."[26] Because DHEA is converted to androstenedione and then testosterone, it has two chances to aromatize into estrogen- estrone from androstenedione, and estradiol from testosterone. As such, it is possible for increases in estrogen levels more than testosterone in men.

I also found this to be quite interesting:

Regular exercise is known to increase DHEA production in the body.[27][28][29] Caloric restriction has also been shown to increase DHEA in primates.[30] Some theorize that the increase in endogenous DHEA brought about by caloric restriction is partially responsible for the longer life expectancy known to be associated with caloric restriction.

Seems like the takeaway from this is that you should squat and deadlift and you will see a greater benefit than taking DHEA...

[dungeonmistress]

Originally Posted by mountainplumbing

I've found some info on the net about this stuff. Kinda was thinking about it. It is banned for college football and olympic sports.(unfair advantage they say) Then I also read research that says the stuff is just very overrated and can cause problems. Then I was in Walmart and seen a bottle of it on the shelf. Does anyone have anything to say about DHEA that might help me with taking this stuff or not? I'm on the fench.

i've been curious about this stuff myself. i did some reading last night, i figured what the hell. i bought some 50 mg capsules containing the pharmaceutical pure stuff, not extracted from mexican yams. we shall see. i'm old, i figured it can't hurt.

what' is y'all's take on creatine and kidney damage? i used to take copious amounts of this supplement probably about 10 years ago and made some very good gains. my dr at that time warned me about kidney problems and after seeing my (now dead) husband go thru a lot of crap with his kidneys, including dialysis, it scared the bejesus outta me so i quit taking it. my kidneys operate on the high side of normal (creatinine numbers) but i've heard that anyone who lifts weights and eats a lot of protein will show numbers like that. confused!!

[greyhair]

Originally Posted by dungeonmistress

i've been curious about this stuff myself. i did some reading last night, i figured what the hell. i bought some 50 mg capsules containing the pharmaceutical pure stuff, not extracted from mexican yams. we shall see. i'm old, i figured it can't hurt.

what' is y'all's take on creatine and kidney damage? i used to take copious amounts of this supplement probably about 10 years ago and made some very good gains. my dr at that time warned me about kidney problems and after seeing my (now dead) husband go thru a lot of crap with his kidneys, including dialysis, it scared the bejesus outta me so i quit taking it. my kidneys operate on the high side of normal (creatinine numbers) but i've heard that anyone who lifts weights and eats a lot of protein will show numbers like that. confused!!

I suspect its all a matter of degree.
Creatine is available via foods such as beef.
As long as the supplementation is modest (enough to saturate the muscles, but not so much to overwhelm the removal system) it should be fine.
IMHO, you don't have to get it exactly right.

[RDFinders]

Originally Posted by dungeonmistress

i've been curious about this stuff myself. i did some reading last night, i figured what the hell. i bought some 50 mg capsules containing the pharmaceutical pure stuff, not extracted from mexican yams. we shall see. i'm old, i figured it can't hurt.

what' is y'all's take on creatine and kidney damage? i used to take copious amounts of this supplement probably about 10 years ago and made some very good gains. my dr at that time warned me about kidney problems and after seeing my (now dead) husband go thru a lot of crap with his kidneys, including dialysis, it scared the bejesus outta me so i quit taking it. my kidneys operate on the high side of normal (creatinine numbers) but i've heard that anyone who lifts weights and eats a lot of protein will show numbers like that. confused!!

creatine is broken down into creatinine in the blood. so if you are supplementing with it, your natural creatinine levels will go up. natural response to supplementation and not necessarily indicative of your kidney function. if you did a 24 hour urine collection, your normal levels could be determined if you are keeping track of the creatine you are taking in.

as far as kidney damage goes, if you have issues already with your kidneys creatine will exacerbate it. i worked with a professor at TWU that researched polycystic rats and creatine usage. all the rats kidneys shut down after supplementation was started. if your kidneys are normal, no problems with supplementation. but that is the thing, how many people are having their kidney function tested on a regular basis to know what is going on.

[thruxton]

Originally Posted by dungeonmistress

...

what' is y'all's take on creatine and kidney damage? ...

i work in dialysis and we get ZERO customers from creatine (or protein). these sort of ideas should go away.

[dungeonmistress]

Originally Posted by RDFinders

creatine is broken down into creatinine in the blood. so if you are supplementing with it, your natural creatinine levels will go up. natural response to supplementation and not necessarily indicative of your kidney function. if you did a 24 hour urine collection, your normal levels could be determined if you are keeping track of the creatine you are taking in.

as far as kidney damage goes, if you have issues already with your kidneys creatine will exacerbate it. i worked with a professor at TWU that researched polycystic rats and creatine usage. all the rats kidneys shut down after supplementation was started. if your kidneys are normal, no problems with supplementation. but that is the thing, how many people are having their kidney function tested on a regular basis to know what is going on.

*raises hand* seriously, i have a deeprooted fear of kidney problems after watching what my husband went thru. i developed high blood pressure after giving birth and am on a couple of meds. my pressure is really good but i know that the meds aren't really good for the kidneys. my dr (a bodybuilder btw!!!) decided to give me a 24 hour urine test just to put my mind at ease. i know myself well enough after all these years and thought i have some problems there. and, i was right. my kidneys do in fact show some slight damage. he was actually surprised that my feelings were spot on. i should probably talk to him about supplementation at any level - he'd probably know. he's yoked!!

[dungeonmistress]

Originally Posted by thruxton

i work in dialysis and we get ZERO customers from creatine (or protein). these sort of ideas should go away.

you have a hard job. my hat is off to you.

[RDFinders]

Originally Posted by dungeonmistress

*raises hand* seriously, i have a deeprooted fear of kidney problems after watching what my husband went thru. i developed high blood pressure after giving birth and am on a couple of meds. my pressure is really good but i know that the meds aren't really good for the kidneys. my dr (a bodybuilder btw!!!) decided to give me a 24 hour urine test just to put my mind at ease. i know myself well enough after all these years and thought i have some problems there. and, i was right. my kidneys do in fact show some slight damage. he was actually surprised that my feelings were spot on. i should probably talk to him about supplementation at any level - he'd probably know. he's yoked!!

the additional creatinine makes the kidneys work harder. and with blood pressure issues, the kidneys are always at serious risk of being damaged. have a sit down with your doctor on it. not sure if the professor i worked with is doing anymore studies around creatine. probably not, since it is a well known supplement now.

[dungeonmistress]

Originally Posted by RDFinders

the additional creatinine makes the kidneys work harder. and with blood pressure issues, the kidneys are always at serious risk of being damaged. have a sit down with your doctor on it. not sure if the professor i worked with is doing anymore studies around creatine. probably not, since it is a well known supplement now.

i'm definitely going to talk to him. he is a wealth of info, i'm sure, would approach this from a lifter's perspective whereas with the doctors before - well they just don't understand. the docs i had before him didn't lift or know anything about the sport. as a matter of fact the dr i had prior to this one told me that i should start slowing down now. epic fail. i fired her ass.

thanks everyone for your help, and OP i didn't mean to hijack your dhea thread, sorry about that!

[mountainplumbing]

Originally Posted by mountainplumbing

I've found some info on the net about this stuff. Kinda was thinking about it. It is banned for college football and olympic sports.(unfair advantage they say) Then I also read research that says the stuff is just very overrated and can cause problems. Then I was in Walmart and seen a bottle of it on the shelf. Does anyone have anything to say about DHEA that might help me with taking this stuff or not? I'm on the fench.

I respect everyone's ideas and thank everyone for helping me out on this one. I'm making very good progress with my charts and hope to continue doing so with creatine and protein. I just figured that if Dhea really worked that it's so cheap I would try it. I started lifting hard less than a year ago and have a lot to learn.

[Dutchman]

Creatine and DHEA have been discussed here untold times, always ending up with divided opinions. I can only relate my own approach which I follow with the full agreement from my Internist. I have used Creatine for more than 20 years. I take it almost every day (I do forget or get preoccupied sometimes LOL). I take 5 gms on workout days and 3 gms on off days. As I discussed in a prior thread, I believe strongly in the ongoing National Institute of Health, stage 3 testing ongoing using Creatine to combat Parkinson' Disease. PD killed my dad and afflicts many of my retiree friends, so the positive test results seen with Creatine and Omega 3s are of great importance to me. I use Creatine as the base of my strength/growth stack by using it along with L-Arginine and Beta-Alanine. For me, they work great.

I also take 200 mgs ED of DHEA. Like my original Creatine supplementation goal, I believe that my natural stores of each have diminished with age. I have no fear of E2 increase because I continue my years long use of a Bio-Identical Progesterone cream to cap my E, inversely up my T and protect my prostate from the dreaded PC. My Doc says I am healthy as a horse and I know I am still as strong as one. Of course the Dutchess sometimes focuses on my similarities to the south end of one going north.

[phil b]

my bloodwork showed many low levels, dhea one of them, and I have been taking presciption DHEA from a compounding pharmacy in canada, zero results after enough time to know. waste of money IMO.

[dmangiarelli]

Originally Posted by mountainplumbing

I respect everyone's ideas and thank everyone for helping me out on this one. I'm making very good progress with my charts and hope to continue doing so with creatine and protein. I just figured that if Dhea really worked that it's so cheap I would try it. I started lifting hard less than a year ago and have a lot to learn.

Creatine, Glutamine and Beta-Alanine + Whey protein isolate. You will see great results.

[DaddyR]

Originally Posted by RDFinders

... how many people are having their kidney function tested on a regular basis to know what is going on.

I am. I've had Systemic Lupus since 1997 so they watch my kidney function closely all the time. I have never had any indication of any kidney issues nor elevated creatinine over the course of many years, whether taking creatine or not.

I personally believe the whole creatine and kidneys warning is a purely theoretical risk that doesn't actually occur in real life. Doctors warn people about it but I have never heard of anyone actually getting kidney disease from it.

Enough of the off-topic conversation...

DHEA is a precursor to the precursors of multiple sex hormones. It can increase estrogen and well as testosterone, and of course your body's natural feedback mechanisms intervene and attempt to restore levels to your normal setpoint. So yes it can have effects both desired and unwanted and the effects are generally mild and often temporary. There are "better" hormonal products, some of them still legal, but none of them terribly "ethical" nor necessarily "safe" (which are relative terms) nor desirable if you're into keeping it natural.

[bryantone]

I Take 200 mg DHEA with 500 mg chrysin and 500 mg tribulis. I cycle it for 10 to 12 weeks. I have good noticable results with this combo. I have left out the trib sometimes with the same results, but I like the trib side effects. The chrysin is a estrogen blockerand cycling my supps is a personel prefferance. What works for me, may not do squat (no pun) for you. Is there a spell checker on this thing?

[RDFinders]

Originally Posted by DaddyR

I am. I've had Systemic Lupus since 1997 so they watch my kidney function closely all the time. I have never had any indication of any kidney issues nor elevated creatinine over the course of many years, whether taking creatine or not.

I personally believe the whole creatine and kidneys warning is a purely theoretical risk that doesn't actually occur in real life. Doctors warn people about it but I have never heard of anyone actually getting kidney disease from it.

Enough of the off-topic conversation...

DHEA is a precursor to the precursors of multiple sex hormones. It can increase estrogen and well as testosterone, and of course your body's natural feedback mechanisms intervene and attempt to restore levels to your normal setpoint. So yes it can have effects both desired and unwanted and the effects are generally mild and often temporary. There are "better" hormonal products, some of them still legal, but none of them terribly "ethical" nor necessarily "safe" (which are relative terms) nor desirable if you're into keeping it natural.

as you should have yours tested frequently, but your average person is not requesting that information, nor is a physician testing their function either.

[DaddyR]

Originally Posted by RDFinders

as you should have yours tested frequently, but your average person is not requesting that information, nor is a physician testing their function either.

I could be wrong and would not mind learning if so, but I believe the whole creatine harming your kidneys thing is considered an urban legend. I haven't worried too much since I know for a fact it's not an issue for me personally, but I thought I had seen threads citing studies proving it doesn't really cause any harm. There are definitely plenty of studies showing no harm to normal healthy people taking it. But again I think that's off topic here.