Wanna know what Trenadrol REALLY is?

[blkbelt42]

Originally Posted by adrenergic

got any links to info on naming compounds? i'm not that far into chemistry for nomenclature and that stuff...

your sig needs more supps....wow!

that is one hellofa stack dude.

[IDZ]

Originally Posted by KENKONG

your sig needs more supps....wow!

that is one hellofa stack dude.

yeah it is for a grown man...but for a 16 year-old...wtf...

[Stylin74]

Originally Posted by Voo

A guide to the currently available "trens"...

Warning, science content.

all tren compounds are nandrolone based.

19-Norandrosta 4, 9 Diene 3, 17 Dione
Estra-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione
17b-methoxy-trienbolone
13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17one

As you can see there are a million ways to write out the nomenclature. Ill start with Estra 4,9 and 19 nor.

Nandrolone is also known as 19nor testosterone from the removal of the nor group at the 19th position. Imagine that
Another way to express that is "Norandrostane" or "estra" So both estra 4,9 and 19 nor andro are the same beginning. Now look at the rest of the chemical nomenclature, theyre the exact same.
So really, 19-Norandrosta 4,9 diene 3, 17 dione and Estra 4,9 diene 17dione are the exact same thing.

Trenadrol aka 17b methoxy trienbolone is um, different. Effectively take trenbolone (a nandrolone based steroid) and add a methoxy group at the 17 beta position. Thats it. Trenbolone is really tri-en-bolone aka 3 carbon bonds at the 4,9 and 11 position. So 17b methoxy tri-en-bolone makes it a VERY close cousin. So close a cousin that they have almost ALL the same sides.

Now does everyone understand why I said trenadrol is money?

13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one isnt really a "tren." Though a progestin, the 2,5 (10) double carbon bonds dont quite match up. Its closer to norbolethone, though not by a whole lot. Norbolethone is the orally active version of nandrolone which is actually a 17 ethyl (not a typo). The 13 ethyl intensifies anabolic effects. I would make the general assumption that its a totally different designer, active on its own. It has no hepatoxcity thanks to the fact its an ethyl. Sorry I cant offer a lot more on ALRI's Max LMG clones.

If there are other compounds you want worked out, let me knowez!

i didn't understand half of that lol
is there anywhere where i could learn all about this stuff?
thanks

[Beejis60]

Originally Posted by Stylin74

i didn't understand half of that lol
is there anywhere where i could learn all about this stuff?
thanks

A place called college usually works best. Organic chemistry is what you need and that will still not be enough IMO. There's a good PDF somewhere on the internet about naming steroids; I lost it when my computer crashed but I don't need it as I know everything now.

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally Posted by Beejis60

A place called college usually works best. .

Tell me all knowing one, what is this magical place of which you speak? this "cow-ledge?"

[Beejis60]

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

Tell me all knowing one, what is this magical place of which you speak? this "cow-ledge?"

Cowledge is where most 20 something year olds act like how you are in your avatar

[FadeIntoBig]

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

Tell me all knowing one, what is this magical place of which you speak? this "cow-ledge?"

LOL. I learned more 30 days out of college in my first post-grad job than the previous 8 years in, unless you count how to make a bong. Which explains a good part of why a 5 year degree took 8 years

[muruku]

Originally Posted by adrenergic

got any links to info on naming compounds? i'm not that far into chemistry for nomenclature and that stuff...

lulz, trenbolone at 16?
for real bro?

[Craig Mack]

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

Tell me all knowing one, what is this magical place of which you speak? this "cow-ledge?"

are you smoking a cig in your profile pic?

[SpiderJerusalem]

So.... Any news? Anyone?

[physqoparty]

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

Hey every one. I started drinking Monavie about 2 months ago and it has done amazing things for me. I have lost 57 pounds, no pain or soreness after 2 hour workouts. My endurance is amazing in all aspects, wink wink. Man I wish I had this product years ago. Anyone else try this stuff?

PA please tell us your joking? That monavie stuff is the ultimate snake oil gift wrapped in a pyramid scam. My "friend" at work tried to get me in on it and even had a little tasting party at his house. Im all for the acai berry but this product and company are just straight BS

[ZekeHeavyMechAK]

Well, after 30 mgs of nolva for the last 4 days I'm back up to 60 mgs of tren today from 30 mgs for the last 6 days, with no gyno sides. Guess I'll finish out my cycle at 60 for the next 10 days. Going to keep takin the nolva at 20 mgs a day till I pct. I know, it might hinder my gains but Im way to sensitive to tren looks like, gona stay on the safe side. Also started t-bomb 2 today, just gona overlap it into my pct. Without having to stress about growin tits I'm feelin a lot better. Weighed in today at 198, even at the low dose I've been having to run I've gained some good weight, definately put on size. The progress pics on my bs are from the 11th. I'll take a couple more here in the next few days. Will I ever run tren again... hell no. Any one have any good mild ph or ph free stacks they've run that work pm me.

[FadeIntoBig]

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

u actually had me going there for a sec


basically it appears trenadrol contains something very close to estra-4,9-3,17-dione (which is the stuff in all the typical "tren" products).

something close but different. Its very likely not the chemical they appear to have listed in the ingredient list either

Heheheh. Another "what the hell is Trenadrol" thread lasting three months and all we came away with is more questions than answers 3 months, 600 posts and two different analysis must be a new record of some kind though.

Sincerely, thanks PA and Beejis60 for taking the time to run the tests on it.

[SpiderJerusalem]

Maybe someone who's been following this thread from the start (and can understand more than half of what's been said) wouldn't mind writing up a short summary of our conclusions and remaining questions? I'll gladly rep anyone who does!

[FadeIntoBig]

Originally Posted by SpiderJerusalem

Maybe someone who's been following this thread from the start (and can understand more than half of what's been said) wouldn't mind writing up a short summary of our conclusions and remaining questions? I'll gladly rep anyone who does!

Regarding the compound, what PA said here http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post332148961 sums it up, at least for KS Trenadrol batch # 090207.

Both Beejis60 and PA ran Mass Spectrum tests. I'm no chemist, but I believe that Beejis' results support what PA found. They tested the same batch.

The true composition of KS Trenadrol has always been in question because a) The listed compound has a non-standard nomenclature, b) at least one label misprint in the past (3mg instead of 30mg per capsule) c) because some new KS marketing material listed the ingredient as estra 4, 9 and d) people who've used both say that the effects are both more harsh (sides) and potent (gains) than the other "tren" DS's out there.

The consensus on its effectiveness seems to be: KS Trenadrol is great for strength, good for mass and good for recomp purposes. It is a 'dry' compound. It ranks up there as one of the most potent (and harsh) DS's overall.

For cycle support, the consensus seems to be that both liver support and a guard against prolactin related sides needs to be considered. For PCT, KS Trenadrol will shut you down so it would be wise to plan on using a testosterone booster along with something to control the estrogen rebound and probably also something to guard against prolactin sides.

The question is and always has been "what exactly is Trenadrol?". Based on PA's results, another one would be, "why doesn't KS correctly list the compound?".

People generally report great results, but everyone has to guess what to use for on-cycle support and for PCT because no-one is sure what the compound is. Likewise for stacking.

[SpiderJerusalem]

Originally Posted by FadeIntoBig

Regarding the compound, what PA said here http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post332148961 sums it up, at least for KS Trenadrol batch # 090207.

Both Beejis60 and PA ran Mass Spectrum tests. I'm no chemist, but I believe that Beejis' results support what PA found. They tested the same batch.

The true composition of KS Trenadrol has always been in question because a) The listed compound has a non-standard nomenclature, b) at least one label misprint in the past (3mg instead of 30mg per capsule) c) because some new KS marketing material listed the ingredient as estra 4, 9 and d) people who've used both say that the effects are both more harsh (sides) and potent (gains) than the other "tren" DS's out there.

The consensus on its effectiveness seems to be: KS Trenadrol is great for strength, good for mass and good for recomp purposes. It is a 'dry' compound. It ranks up there as one of the most potent (and harsh) DS's overall.

For cycle support, the consensus seems to be that both liver support and a guard against prolactin related sides needs to be considered. For PCT, KS Trenadrol will shut you down so it would be wise to plan on using a testosterone booster along with something to control the estrogen rebound and probably also something to guard against prolactin sides.

The question is and always has been "what exactly is Trenadrol?". Based on PA's results, another one would be, "why doesn't KS correctly list the compound?".

People generally report great results, but everyone has to guess what to use for on-cycle support and for PCT because no-one is sure what the compound is. Likewise for stacking.

Nice summary! You've been repped.

It would be cool if someone could figure out what the missing piece is here--i.e., why KS's Tren differs slightly from the known formulation. Did they add something to make it more orally bio-available? I believe Pat said it wasn't a "hydroxy" version, and I think it's also been said (or is generally assumed) not to be a methyl, so did KS come up with something else to keep the molecule active? I guess that's what we're left with. Or am I misreading things...?

[supra888]

Originally Posted by Voo

Ah, lol THIS is where the drama will begin Im sure.



Standalone and in conjunction with other designer steroids, Ive run Trenadrol what, 5-6 times now? Since Im 6'7'' and 260, Ive been known to run it a little higher than normal - 180mgs is the highest Ive gone. Someone my size needs about 120, most 90. 150+ just makes ya mad.
Ive run it with bold, superdrol, halo, prop, phera, etc... I have yet to need an estrogen blocker on cycle. On cycle my blood pressure jumps about 30 points though, so I mass dose hawthrone berry to alleviate the problem.

Post cycle therapy was always 6bromo and tribulus. Each time I recovered fully *with blood work* to further show there were no issues.



Do people on this board just spout off "you need a serm" or "you need reversitol" if they see a post about hormonals? I mean dont get me wrong, I love the brand loyalty, but really guys - selective estrogen modulators for a non methyl? Suppose I should have mass dosed Raloxifene for a bold200 run then.

I have a problem telling people to run a SERMs. They're illegal without a prescription. They're hepatoxic. You still need to spur HPTA recovery after the estrogen receptors have been blocked, and no one ever mentions that.

Reversitol or any other 6 bromo based pct will work fine. I Force Nutrition will ever encourage illegal drug use.

What about : inhibit-E ,AI cycle support ,BLUE UP ,AI post cycle support would this be sufficient PCT for a solo cycle of trenadrol ( 90/90/90/90/90/90 ) or should i definitely go with Reversitol too ?
Thanks in advance

[SpiderJerusalem]

After reading another thread, it looks like some kind of liver support would be advised on Tren? Can anyone verify this? And if so, what would be best to use for that?

Also, in regard to the post above, is it true that SERM's are hepatoxic? Or is that just with long-term use (as opposed to an occasional 4-week PCT)?

[RemainDieHard]

Anyone interested in a couple bottles of the 17b Trenadrol PM me.

[SpiderJerusalem]

Originally Posted by SpiderJerusalem

After reading another thread, it looks like some kind of liver support would be advised on Tren? Can anyone verify this? And if so, what would be best to use for that?

Also, in regard to the post above, is it true that SERM's are hepatoxic? Or is that just with long-term use (as opposed to an occasional 4-week PCT)?

*bump*

EDIT: erm, never mind, I found some good threads on liver support. And Googling around it looks like SERM's are only liver-risky if used for very prolonged periods.

[SpiderJerusalem]

Here's the supplement, Tren & SERM schedule I've put together for my upcoming Tren cycle, based on what I've read here and elsewhere. If anyone has advice, suggestions, etc, please post.

Week 1
Trenadrol @ 60mg/day
Taurine @ 1 cap (1 gram)
Cranberry @ 5 caps (2 grams)
Hawthorn @ 2 caps (1 gram)


Week 2
Trenadrol @ 60mg/day
Taurine @ 1 cap (1 gram)
Cranberry @ 5 caps (2 grams)
Hawthorn @ 2 caps (1 gram)


Week 3
Trenadrol @ 60mg/day
Taurine @ 1 cap (1 gram)
Cranberry @ 5 caps (2 grams)
Hawthorn @ 2 caps (1 gram)


Week 4
Trenadrol @ 60mg/day
Taurine @ 1 cap (1 gram)
Cranberry @ 5 caps (2 grams)
Hawthorn @ 2 caps (1 gram)


Week 5
Torem @ 60mg
Reversitol @ 3 caps
Cranberry @ 5 caps (2 grams)
Liv52 @ 2 caps
ALA @ 2 caps (600mg)
NAC@ 1 cap (600mg)


Week 6
Torem @ 30mg
Reversitol @ 2 caps
Cranberry @ 5 caps (2 grams)
Liv52 @ 2 caps
ALA @ 2 caps (600mg)
NAC@ 1 cap (600mg)


Week 7
Torem @ 30mg
Reversitol @ 2 caps
Cranberry @ 2 caps (0.8 grams)
Liv52 @ 2 caps
ALA @ 2 caps (600mg)
NAC@ 1 cap (600mg)


Week 8
Torem @ 15mg
Reversitol @ 1 cap
Cranberry @ 2 caps (0.8 grams)
Liv52 @ 2 caps
ALA @ 2 caps (600mg)
NAC@ 1 cap (600mg)

[Craig Mack]

Originally Posted by ZekeHeavyMechAK

Well, after 30 mgs of nolva for the last 4 days I'm back up to 60 mgs of tren today from 30 mgs for the last 6 days, with no gyno sides. Guess I'll finish out my cycle at 60 for the next 10 days. Going to keep takin the nolva at 20 mgs a day till I pct. I know, it might hinder my gains but Im way to sensitive to tren looks like, gona stay on the safe side. Also started t-bomb 2 today, just gona overlap it into my pct. Without having to stress about growin tits I'm feelin a lot better. Weighed in today at 198, even at the low dose I've been having to run I've gained some good weight, definately put on size. The progress pics on my bs are from the 11th. I'll take a couple more here in the next few days. Will I ever run tren again... hell no. Any one have any good mild ph or ph free stacks they've run that work pm me.

-Nolva will do nothing for prolactin based gyno which is what you would get from Tren.

-Nolva will not inhibit gains on Trenadrol. Nolva can hinder gains on aromitizing steroids such as test because it can lower estrogen and estrogen can help with gains. No legal steroid today converts to test, so none are aromitizing, so none would be negatively impacted by Nolva

-T-Bomb II is garbage. I took it before, waste of money. I guess if you already have it though....

[user487870871]

just some info i found interesting that i believe dave talked about earlier in this thread.

this is from russian star.

Actualy guys, hope you dont mind me jumping in, the chemical kilo sports use now, is not the same as the original, the original was supposed to be 17b-methoxy-trienbolone and it WAS dosed at 3mg, however that compound wich wasnt actualy 17b-methoxy-trienbolone but was in fact an unknown compund for all intents and purposes, at least even the manufacturers were not sure what it was, and it is indeed different from the tren products currently available, it was dry, and great for strength gains, similar to Methyl 1-alpha in that department, not much use for gaining mass, but quite good for a recomp. The current estra compound wich is now used by kilo sports trenadrol, is the same as the other tren products available, they have kept the old label as was mentioned earlier on in this thread, but if you notice it is now 30mg not 3, 30mg would be a dangerous and unbearable dose, however considering after recent tests showed it is in fact the estra compound other trens products use such as X-mass, T-roid, and xtreme tren, 30mg is quite mild, and a normal dose.
Methoxy-tren did use the same compound as trenadrol originaly, of course now neither of the original are available as they are banned, and withdrawn from sales, the compound they used 17b-methoxy-trienbolone seemed to only be in the trenadrol, as most people didnt notice a great deal from the ARLI product, However they were supposed to be the same.

As for progestin related side effects, bromocriptine is one of the best to avoid them, as is l-dopa and 1-carboxy, also cabergoline is very effective, and has been mentioned before Clomid is the best choice for any steroid that causes prolactin side effects, Nolva will not touch progestin induced gyno, but clomid can, that is enough reason to me to favour clomid during and after a progestin based steroid compound cycle, i do not want boobies for life, i like them but i dont want any of my own.

Originaly trenadrol was 3mg.....now its 30mg but they advertise it as the same compound 17b-methoxy trienbolone that was in the original, rest assured its not the same compound as was in the original.

taken from post from easyjl

Its a pity I missed this thread till now. Author L Rea of ALRI stated that Trenadrol never contained the compound in methoxy-TRN. He does admit to the name being just trademarked (I have some of the ALRI bottles, the symbol is next to trienbolone) as he used the logic that if you are the originator of a chemical that has no "common name" then you can trademark its common name and use it.... He sold the raws to biotest + generic labz, but other than that nobody knows what is in it to reproduce it

hmm time to pm Author maybe he will talk about this a little he has enough lawyers to protect himself in case he ends up in court

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally Posted by Craig Mack

-Nolva will do nothing for prolactin based gyno which is what you would get from Tren. ...

broscience alert

prolactin increases from tren is baseless. worse than baseless, the evidence is against it



Res Vet Sci. 1981 Jan;30(1):7-13.Links
Growth hormone, insulin, prolactin and total thyroxine in the plasma of sheep implanted with the anabolic steroid trenbolone acetate alone or with oestradiol.Donaldson IA, Hart IC, Heitzman RJ.
The mode of action of the anabolic steroid trenbolone acetate (19-norandrost-4,9,11-trien-3-one-17-acetate) was studied through the endogenous hormonal response of castrated male sheep to subcutaneous implantation of 140 mg of trenbolone acetate and 20 mg of oestradiol both separately and in combination. Radioimmunoassay of delta-4,9,11-trienic steroids and oestradiol-17 beta in plasma confirmed that simultaneous administration of trenbolone acetate with oestradiol led to a significantly greater persistence of oestradiol-17 beta residues in plasma (P less than 0.05) than with implantation of oestradiol alone. Oestradiol treatment increased concentrations of growth hormone and insulin (P less than 0.05; P less than 0.001 respectively) in plasma samples collected weekly. Trenbolone acetate by itself had no significant effect and the oestrogenic response was blocked on the simultaneous implantation of trenbolone acetate and oestradiol (despite higher plasma levels of oestradiol-17 beta with this treatment). Plasma total thyroxine was markedly depressed to 45 per cent of its basal level by trenbolone acetate, alone or with oestradiol (P less than 0.001) and depressed to 80 per cent of basal by oestradiol treatment alone (P less than 0.001). Plasma prolactin was unaltered by the above treatments.






Effects of anabolic implants of oestradiol alone or in combination with trenbolone acetate on the ultrastructure of mammary glands in female lambs regarding their interference in prolactin secretion.Blanco A, Moya L, Flores R, Ag?era E, Monterde JG.
Department of Comparative Anatomy and Pathological Anatomy, Veterinary Faculty, University of Cordoba, Spain.

The side-effects of anabolic steroid implants on mammary gland ultrastructure were evaluated in female lambs treated with oestradiol (n = 10) and with oestradiol plus trenbolone acetate (n = 10). Ten non-implanted lambs were used as controls. Apart from the ultrastructural study of the mammary gland, an assessment of the prolactin pituitary cell population was carried out by immunological methods. Our results showed that oestrogenic implants exert stimulating effects on mammary gland development, both by activating the synthesis process at mammary gland cell levels and by increasing prolactin pituitary production. Nevertheless, there was no evidence of secretory products in the lumen of the gland. Implants containing trenbolone acetate counteracted the mammary stimulus of oestrogens showing ultrastructural images of cell autolysis and necrosis.

[Voo]

Originally Posted by thauncle

hmm time to pm Author maybe he will talk about this a little he has enough lawyers to protect himself in case he ends up in court

Or perhaps he was posing a theoretical debate as to why people were seeing ridiculous strength gains from a product. Chemical comparisons are hardly illegal.

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally Posted by thauncle

just some info i found interesting that i believe dave talked about earlier in this thread.

this is from russian star.

Actualy guys, hope you dont mind me jumping in, the chemical kilo sports use now, is not the same as the original, the original was supposed to be 17b-methoxy-trienbolone and it WAS dosed at 3mg, however that compound wich wasnt actualy 17b-methoxy-trienbolone but was in fact an unknown compund for all intents and purposes, at least even the manufacturers were not sure what it was, and it is indeed different from the tren products currently available, it was dry, and great for strength gains, similar to Methyl 1-alpha in that department, not much use for gaining mass, but quite good for a recomp. The current estra compound wich is now used by kilo sports trenadrol, is the same as the other tren products available,

not according to my tests. the mass spectra does NOT match up to estra-4,9

Originally Posted by thauncle

they have kept the old label as was mentioned earlier on in this thread, but if you notice it is now 30mg not 3, 30mg would be a dangerous and unbearable dose, however considering after recent tests showed it is in fact the estra compound other trens products use such as X-mass, T-roid, and xtreme tren, 30mg is quite mild, and a normal dose.
Methoxy-tren did use the same compound as trenadrol originaly, of course now neither of the original are available as they are banned, and withdrawn from sales, the compound they used 17b-methoxy-trienbolone seemed to only be in the trenadrol, as most people didnt notice a great deal from the ARLI product, However they were supposed to be the same.

As for progestin related side effects, bromocriptine is one of the best to avoid them, as is l-dopa and 1-carboxy, also cabergoline is very effective, and has been mentioned before Clomid is the best choice for any steroid that causes prolactin side effects, Nolva will not touch progestin induced gyno, but clomid can, that is enough reason to me to favour clomid during and after a progestin based steroid compound cycle, i do not want boobies for life, i like them but i dont want any of my own.
t

progestin and prolactin are not the same thing number one, and number two why would this guy presume that either hormone has anything to do with gyno from the compound?

[Voo]

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

not according to my tests. the mass spectra does NOT match up to estra-4,9

Heh I think we all figured that one out from sides. How you doing these days old man?

[user487870871]

Originally Posted by Voo

Or perhaps he was posing a theoretical debate as to why people were seeing ridiculous strength gains from a product. Chemical comparisons are hardly illegal.

yea i was just thinking down the road when the fda and etc start asking questions about tren mr author may make a guest apperance. on a side note anyone who needs to keep a lawyer on call like his does makes me nervous.ARLI will get no money from me.

i didn't give much thought to the rest of the stuff he was talking about but thought i'd post his whole thought as to not take anything he said out of context.I've heard of a few cases where something in tren may have created prolactin issues maybe but it seems its nothing a lil caber or virtex(spelling) can't fix for the most part.I haven't really gotten into any of the studies of tren as I have no desire to take this stuff.though if i can get a hold of a few legit bottles and make a lil profit then i'm all for it.

[SpiderJerusalem]

*bump for updates*

Also, I'm on day 5 of my first Tren cycle (60mg/day). Feel good so far. Sleep seems better (and better dream-state), no "night sweats". Feeling more aggressive in general. No negative sides that I can attribute to the Tren (yet?). I'm also lifting more days (and eating more): 2 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off, 2 on... etc with a 3-day split, so I should be able to do 6 workouts per split in 30 days. Eating roughly 1000 calories more per day than usual, but I'm not feeling fatter, in fact I think already I'm losing a little bit of weight (water?) from around my midsection, though my primary goal is bulk/strength. Anyway I plan to post a complete log at the end of my 30 days on Tren, then another for my next 30 days on PCT.

For anyone else who has done Tren, was there a point in your cycle where you really started to notice its positive effects? How many calories did you eat per day (over your usual amount)? And how much did you ramp up your workouts, if at all?

So I take it nobody really knows yet what's in the latest version of Tren?

[spectre86]

free bump