I got gyno from Havoc and Reversitol

[nickrut]

Originally Posted by Benny5

agree.

but there is a difference between wet PH's and dry/leaner PH's.... as far as how they interact in the body and the cosmetic/aesthetic appeal.

either way 15lbs in too short of a time = not as much lean mass as one would think... and probably came from a dirty diet.... which also means fat.

it's always easier to accumulate and also cut fat... than it is to build muscle.

people tend to forget that sometimes both when they put off cutting and when they try to bulk.

I'll agree with that. On the same page haha...

[freudslip]

I highly doubt you got gyno from a ****ing 4 week cycle of a very weak designer steroid. 99% of the people on the forum don't even know what gyno is. Unless you have C cups, I highly doubt you have gyno.

[freudslip]

before anyone cries bull****, here is what gyno looks like:


http://www.living-with-large-breasts...necomastia.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...mastia_001.jpg

[freudslip]

Originally Posted by slatedogg187

doubt it. I ran tren and pherplex over a year ago and didn't get any gyno with an OTC PCT. I blame havoc/reversitol on this one folks. I ran 20mg for 4 weeks of nolva after and that helped and brought my levels back. Always using SERMs after this one and so should you.

so let me get this straight. You ran pheraplex which actually aromatizes because it pretty much is testosterone. It's desoxymethyltestosterone. So, you ran something much stronger than havoc, but you used an OTC pct, got no gyno, and then used havoc, which is much weaker, which also is the most anti estrogen steroid, has a mild Anti estrogen effect, and you got gyno.

I'm sorry, but I think I can prove your full of ****. You an desoxymethyltestosterone, 19 nortestosterone, and used an OTC PCT> Judging by the way you worded it, it sounds like you didn't use reversitol for DMT or tren. Normally most people would say if you got gyno from havoc and used reversitol, you are HIGHYL and I mean HIGHLY susceptable to gyno. But you lost all your credibality by saying you ran DMT and tren, used a different OTC pCT (just judging by your wording of the post).

[Benny5]

Originally Posted by freudslip

so let me get this straight. You ran pheraplex which actually aromatizes because it pretty much is testosterone. It's desoxymethyltestosterone. So, you ran something much stronger than havoc, but you used an OTC pct, got no gyno, and then used havoc, which is much weaker, which also is the most anti estrogen steroid, has a mild Anti estrogen effect, and you got gyno.


your full of ****

eh... people's experiences doesn't mean they're full of ****.

i've seen many people not get gyno or gyno like symptoms from p-plex... but ive also seen some that have.

and i've also seen 3 people have bad symptoms with havoc... and if anybody is up with the times... there were a few bad batches of them ran where they didnt even contain the powder they claimed to contain....

nobody truly knows what all of these brands are packing into their PH's... that's why it's a dangerous playing field....

but all we can do is count on the good companies staying good and bringing proper products... and then people logging and placing their proper and truthful feedbacks on these boards so that we can make our own decisions.

granted, a lot of people do in fact create gyno like symptoms in their head... but for most part... they tend to turn out legit if not taken care of soon enough.

calling the guy full of ****... is uncalled for.... and really can't be justified with limited knowledge on the situation or enough experiences around to call evidence from.

OH AND BY THE WAY.... gyno isn't just fatty tissue/breast like appearance.... there is such a thing as glandular gyno which can be hardly noticeable to the naked eye but the user can definitely feel the lumps and tenderness. thanks for the attempt at educating the masses.

[AntM1564]

Originally Posted by freudslip

I highly doubt you got gyno from a ****ing 4 week cycle of a very weak designer steroid. 99% of the people on the forum don't even know what gyno is. Unless you have C cups, I highly doubt you have gyno.

Just because someone doesn't look like they have gyno or maybe just a small case, doesn't mean it's non existent. If your running something and afterwards develop a lump behind your nipple and extra sensitivity means something is wrong.

[JPneedswieght]

hey i am running a tren extreme 4 week cycle, was wondering if i should start my revertisol pct the day after i stop taking the tren or overlap it with the last week of the tren cycle any answers>>> would help alot

[freudslip]

Originally Posted by JPneedswieght

hey i am running a tren extreme 4 week cycle, was wondering if i should start my revertisol pct the day after i stop taking the tren or overlap it with the last week of the tren cycle any answers>>> would help alot

take it for what ots worth, because I am in the red. But to be safe I would either run reversitol and start it on the same night of the day you took your last tablet of tren xtreme. I would also recommend pct assist also or post cycle support.

[Benny5]

Originally Posted by freudslip

take it for what ots worth, because I am in the red. But to be safe I would either run reversitol and start it on the same night of the day you took your last tablet of tren xtreme. I would also recommend pct assist also or post cycle support.

solid. especially on the 2nd addition to it.

[Birddog6424]

Originally Posted by freudslip

I highly doubt you got gyno from a ****ing 4 week cycle of a very weak designer steroid. 99% of the people on the forum don't even know what gyno is. Unless you have C cups, I highly doubt you have gyno.

If you read his very first post you will see he went to a doctor, ran blood tests, and was given a prescription by the physician for Tamoxifen.

Let's just go out on a limb here and "assume" his physician knows what gyno is, knows how to interpret blood test results, and understands when a person should or should not prescribe Tamoxifen.

Let's not be so quick to call people a liar. For one, it's rude. Be decent enough to believe in the honesty in others until proven otherwise.

The reality is, things of this nature happen. It's the chance you take when you pump your body full of hormones.

You have to hope for the best while preparing for the worst. Have the necessary goodies on hand next time in case of the worst.

[slatedogg187]

Originally Posted by Hansolo261

Damn. so all you ran was iforce res.? no test booster or a.i after res.?

reversitol is an AI. Read my OP I ran nolva after reversitol and that worked fine.

[slatedogg187]

Originally Posted by 2high2die

What exactly was your dosing with the havoc?

30/30/30/30 Havoc. Reversitol 3/2/2/1

Originally Posted by Hansolo261

I guess not. I planned on runing it for tren xtreme.

Clomid. 50/50/50/50

Originally Posted by goldenboy564

I dont know this just doesnt sound right to me, you only gained 8 pounds on havoc? i was seeing upwards of 15 in some cases, and reversitol is supposed to be the best otc pct you can get and i have yet to see one case of gyno, i think theres more to the story here, maybe you were prone!?

First cycle of PH/AAS are the best and yield the most gains. If I wanted to bulk I would have ran something else. 8 lbs was what I wanted and what I got. Gained 16;bs on Tren and Phera in 4 weeks for a first cycle though.

Originally Posted by VaughnTrue

I only put on 6lbs while on havoc...but i lost like 1.5-2.5% bf



OP - I'm sorry this has happened to you, but please be aware nowhere have we stated that Reversitol can protect/cure Gyno.


Certain people take longer to recover than others which is why some run Reversitol for 6 weeks. Out of every Reversitol log out there, I have seen only 2 issues of Gyno now.



Best of luck to you in the future

I don't blame Iforce, I blame myself for running an OTC PCT once again.

Originally Posted by nickrut

What was your PCT?

For Tren and Phera, PCT was Gaspari Novedex 3/2/2/1 and a product made by Maximum Nutrition called Testobol - X with contains Tribulus, Formestane, and 6-oxo and I used LG sciences Formedrol 2 ED

Originally Posted by freudslip

I highly doubt you got gyno from a ****ing 4 week cycle of a very weak designer steroid. 99% of the people on the forum don't even know what gyno is. Unless you have C cups, I highly doubt you have gyno.

You're a dumbfcuk. I don't have a ****ing bra on, I believe Benny is right. I have glandular gyno. You can hardly notice from looking at me, but I have a lump on both nipples and slight looseness around them.

Originally Posted by freudslip

so let me get this straight. You ran pheraplex which actually aromatizes because it pretty much is testosterone. It's desoxymethyltestosterone. So, you ran something much stronger than havoc, but you used an OTC pct, got no gyno, and then used havoc, which is much weaker, which also is the most anti estrogen steroid, has a mild Anti estrogen effect, and you got gyno.

I'm sorry, but I think I can prove your full of ****. You an desoxymethyltestosterone, 19 nortestosterone, and used an OTC PCT> Judging by the way you worded it, it sounds like you didn't use reversitol for DMT or tren. Normally most people would say if you got gyno from havoc and used reversitol, you are HIGHYL and I mean HIGHLY susceptable to gyno. But you lost all your credibality by saying you ran DMT and tren, used a different OTC pCT (just judging by your wording of the post).

Yep, you're definitely don't know your ****. I ran 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol not 17α-methyl-5α-androst-2-en-17β-ol.

Originally Posted by JPneedswieght

hey i am running a tren extreme 4 week cycle, was wondering if i should start my revertisol pct the day after i stop taking the tren or overlap it with the last week of the tren cycle any answers>>> would help alot

Clomid 50/50/50/50 and reversitol.

[freudslip]

Originally Posted by slatedogg187

30/30/30/30 Havoc. Reversitol 3/2/2/1



Clomid. 50/50/50/50



First cycle of PH/AAS are the best and yield the most gains. If I wanted to bulk I would have ran something else. 8 lbs was what I wanted and what I got. Gained 16;bs on Tren and Phera in 4 weeks for a first cycle though.



I don't blame Iforce, I blame myself for running an OTC PCT once again.



For Tren and Phera, PCT was Gaspari Novedex 3/2/2/1 and a product made by Maximum Nutrition called Testobol - X with contains Tribulus, Formestane, and 6-oxo and I used LG sciences Formedrol 2 ED



You're a dumbfcuk. I don't have a ****ing bra on, I believe Benny is right. I have glandular gyno. You can hardly notice from looking at me, but I have a lump on both nipples and slight looseness around them.



Yep, you're definitely don't know your ****. I ran 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol not 17α-methyl-5α-androst-2-en-17β-ol.



Clomid 50/50/50/50 and reversitol.

lol at you trying to correct me and still being wrong. Etioallocholan is the same thing as androst, just different ways of writing it.




also stacking clomid and reversitol for a tren cycle is just stupid. Heavy duty PCT's arent always better. It's weird, because in the steroid section, guys will run a 16 week cycle of test, use Dianabol or anadrol to kick the in the first 4 weeks, and then a week after their last injection, they'll use nolva or clomid.


However, in the suplement section, people are running 2 and a half week cycles of M1T, are using nolva and clomid together, and also using formadrol and 6 oxo as pct.

[Negative6]

Just thought I would share my experiences. I have run one full cycle of havoc, started a second but got sick so I stopped and went with an otc pct. The first cycle I used torem for a pct. Anyway, I cant remember when but sometime around my first cycle I developed a hard knot under my right nipple. Doctor said it was just breast tissue. (I guess it would be a mild case of gyno) He actually told me to take an otc pain killer and warm compresses to get rid of it. I have had for close to a year or more now. It hurts to be touched, some days worse then others. Also I noticed on my half cycle of havoc it went away but came back a few weeks later, no worse than before. (left nipple is fine)

[slatedogg187]

Originally Posted by freudslip

lol at you trying to crrect me and still being wrong. Etioallocholan is the same thing as androst, just different ways of writing it.

Regardless, its stupid of you to pop off saying im full of ****. There are plenty of other people out there where the same thing has happened to them. Don't be so nieve, you are sitting behind a computer, who are you to say I don't have gyno? Everyone reacts differently to different compounds and I've heard alot more horror stories from havoc. I wish you were right, but you are dead wrong.

[freudslip]

Originally Posted by slatedogg187

Regardless, its stupid of you to pop off saying im full of ****. There are plenty of other people out there where the same thing has happened to them. Don't be so nieve, you are sitting behind a computer, who are you to say I don't have gyno? Everyone reacts differently to different compounds and I've heard alot more horror stories from havoc. I wish you were right, but you are dead wrong.

Your right, I apoligize for a being a dick.

[Galliker487]

Originally Posted by VaughnTrue

thanks for all the support in here guys...dont think its possible to have better brand supporters than the ones we have on bb.com!

that's what happens when you provide good products...I just wish all supplement companies would realize this.

[slatedogg187]

Originally Posted by freudslip

Your right, I apoligize for a being a dick.

no worries

[Sldge]

Originally Posted by chasinSKURT

It wasn't rebound gyno... there's no such thing as rebound gyno.

Your hpta was still suppressed at the time you came off reversitol, and without the AI to manipulate your testosterone:estrogen ratio, you developed gynecomastia.

Are we seeing a pattern developing...where is Rodzilla .

[GoalsmotivateU]

thats what I was thinking rebound gyno.From what I understand rebound gyno is from driving estrogen to low and it bounces back too fast. Thats why you use low dose ai ?

I have yet to understand this better. Thats why im here

[slatedogg187]

Originally Posted by GoalsmotivateU

thats what I was thinking rebound gyno.From what I understand rebound gyno is from driving estrogen to low and it bounces back too fast. Thats why you use low dose ai ?

I have yet to understand this better. Thats why im here

Not too real sure on that either. I got blood tests after reversitol and before running nolva. My test was very high, but so was my estrogen so the doc gave me 20mg ED for 4 weeks of tamoxifen. $4 at walmart pharmacy lol

[Hansolo261]

bump

[VaughnTrue]

Originally Posted by Hansolo261

bump

for....?

[candillac]

Glad I saw this, I'm in the middle of a Havoc cycle, and my PCT will have to be OTC, so I plan on taking I Force Reversitol and AI Post Cycle Support, possible along with Higher Power DHEA and HP Tribulus, any suggestions?

[Heracles25]

Originally Posted by VaughnTrue

for....?

He is a dumbass you have to excuse him.

[chasinSKURT]

Originally Posted by slatedogg187

you never heard of rebound gyno? you should research.

I've heard of it... perhaps you should research and understand why I made my original comment. For those who didn't see it, I'll restate:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DELAYED GYNO

[Sldge]

Originally Posted by candillac

Glad I saw this, I'm in the middle of a Havoc cycle, and my PCT will have to be OTC, so I plan on taking I Force Reversitol and AI Post Cycle Support, possible along with Higher Power DHEA and HP Tribulus, any suggestions?

Definitely dont waste your money on the trib, its completely useless.

[Hansolo261]

Originally Posted by Heracles25

He is a dumbass you have to excuse him.

Naw I though it was a decent thread. Nice info and I bet a few got some knowledge out of it.

[SpawnX]

Originally Posted by Benny5

have ran Havoc myself and noticed gyno symptoms. hardening behind the nipple, extra sensitivity....

also observed 2 other people have same issues. needless to say... we never went back to that product.

as for Reversitol.... nothing but positive feedback from those around me, and my buddy's store... and never any mention of gyno.

as for rebound gyno.... if on an anti e too early, and coming off too early.... i've seen people have it happen.

gotta let the body adjust a bit and let ph's/gear get out of system... and starting to produce it's own hormones the way it used to before can start pct's.

i usually recommend 3-7days for most PH's. and 7-10days for most gear.

one could argue PH's are as strong as gear... so maybe starting PCT a lil later will be the best option.

also of note... havoc is supposed to be a leaner mass gain/recomp product... so people claiming 15lbs.... fairly certain not much of that is actually lean mass.

Totally agree with you.

And my self have been victim of gyno issue with HAVOC @ 20mg for 5 weeks. Gyno started weeks 2 and it was an unusual symptom (like soreness).

HAvoc is kind weird ph or chinese screwed epithio products line with bad batchs.

[RavensFan2k3]

Originally Posted by Benny5

have ran Havoc myself and noticed gyno symptoms. hardening behind the nipple, extra sensitivity....

also observed 2 other people have same issues. needless to say... we never went back to that product.

as for Reversitol.... nothing but positive feedback from those around me, and my buddy's store... and never any mention of gyno.

as for rebound gyno.... if on an anti e too early, and coming off too early.... i've seen people have it happen.

gotta let the body adjust a bit and let ph's/gear get out of system... and starting to produce it's own hormones the way it used to before can start pct's.

i usually recommend 3-7days for most PH's. and 7-10days for most gear.

one could argue PH's are as strong as gear... so maybe starting PCT a lil later will be the best option.

also of note... havoc is supposed to be a leaner mass gain/recomp product... so people claiming 15lbs.... fairly certain not much of that is actually lean mass.

So you're recommending to not start PCT 3-7 days after the cycle is finished??? Ive def never heard that and now I'm all confused again