Smoking @.@

[donluchiti]

Mary Jayne whether it's worse than Cigarettes or alcohol is still in debate. For those who smoke both types and are in the best shape of your life, I'd equate that up to bro-science after all, who knows what your "shape" history has been. Also, I know some skinny smokers, I used to smoke tweed with em for years and they were always kinda muscular and not fat. They wern't skinny from the weed, it was just that they didn't eat alot.

I think alot of the problem with Marijuana is the way it's actually taken, smoking is well, hands down bad for you because of the clogging of the lungs and other affects ingesting smoke will have. If you're here to follow guidelines, and not rely on 1.) genetics that can withstand abnormal amounts of toxins or 2.) small portions of the statistics that go against trends, then quit smoking, whatever it is you're ingesting.

Btw,things "from the earth" don't count as quality, I mean there are mushrooms u can eat that will put you 6 feet under and they are as natural as a stinky Puddy after sex. Also, Weed actually has been bred for the most part to be more potent and contain more THC over the years so it's not exactly "natural" anymore.

No hate though seriously as I quit smoking in January after years of it.

[Gx7Pyro]

tree? i think its VERY pointless to smoke tree and try to work out (at least, in the quantities/qualities i was smoking). smoking before hitting the gym would make you useless - you do about 2 sets of biceps in half a hour, then go home. after the gym/before i sleep would have me wake up groggy and exhausted.

smoking ciggs HAS affected my endurace at the gym, but its controllable. i get tired quicker, and im short of breath faster. but not a whole lot. and actuelly, since i KNOW im short of breath, it makes me work harder - my workouts went from 1 hour of high intensity weights + cardio to 1 hour of high intensity weghts + cardio and 1 hour of of endurance workouts. i work harder to compensate for all the bad stuff.

[BahadurShah]

Originally Posted by donluchiti

Mary Jayne whether it's worse than Cigarettes or alcohol is still in debate.

The fact that alcohol is worse than marijuana on pretty much every level isn't debatable at all.

[alsotrees]

My grandma is 85+ and has smoked for at least 40 years, and is still going at it. Depends on the person I guess. I've never seen anybody who is serious about improving themselves physically smoke anything besides the occasional bud.

But in retrospect, most of my friends don't really care where they're at physically anyway so it doesn't matter.

[donluchiti]

The fact that alcohol is worse than marijuana on pretty much every level isn't debatable at all."


I wouldn't say that, after all there are studies that cite wine being advantageous if consumed mildly. And ask any staunch drinker what is more socially conducive, alcohol or weed. I'd personally say that when I smoked I only wanted to be around smokers or enjoying something on my own (art, music, whatever). I swore off regular pot smoke, but will always admit alkyhol to making folks more social and overall, creating a funner time when in groups.

[sharktank29]

smoking marijuana and bench pressing is not good for me, i started laughin my ass off and had to drop the weights.

[iPerfectDark]

Haha.

I've never smoked so much pot and I've never been in better condition.

Could I be in better condition if I didn't smoke every day? Sure... why not. But would life be as fantastic?

Priorities man! Getting muscles isn't the be all and end all.

[iPerfectDark]

Originally Posted by wings_unhinged

That's usually the age people outgrow marijuana unless they're destined for mediocrity..

haha, I don't think so my friend.

Having just finished university last year I know a lot of students that smoke. I'd say they tend to be quite intelligent. I got a top rate degree as did a couple of others I know. On the other hand I knew a lot of people that didn't smoke and were resitting years and all sorts.

[Lezgetitdone]

Originally Posted by BahadurShah

The fact that alcohol is worse than marijuana on pretty much every level isn't debatable at all.

Quote of the day*

[Lezgetitdone]

Originally Posted by iPerfectDark

Haha.

I've never smoked so much pot and I've never been in better condition.

Could I be in better condition if I didn't smoke every day? Sure... why not. But would life be as fantastic?

Priorities man! Getting muscles isn't the be all and end all.

Couldn't say it any better.

[Lezgetitdone]

Anyone who believes the stereotypes the regan administration stuck into your head's need's to rethink.

Currently, I'm 5'7 205. I lift heavy, 3x6 range 5 day's a week. I do cardio 6x a weak, (4x LIIT, 2x HIIT). I bench 225 3x10 (nothing big or anything).

The point im trying to make is. I am raping all the "stereotypes" that weed is suppose to give individuals.

I am getting up on my ASS EVERYDAY to workout, usually after 4-5 hours of class. All weed does is give me the same euphoria that a couple beers would after a hard day, or a glass of wine like my father loves.

It's just a personal preference and it really depends on who your friends are and where you grew up. I honestly had the same opinions on the thing until I realize'd it was all hogwash.

Think about it.. would you want to legalize a drug that would completely bankrupt the plastic, herbs, tree industry, and more from existence?

[canuhandleit]

Originally Posted by wings_unhinged

That's usually the age people outgrow marijuana unless they're destined for mediocrity..

There are exceptions, but still. I had a buddy who claimed, "weed's great after a workout because it calms your muscles," erm, no. Sorry..

The best thing you can do if you want to be the best and want to give your best (and if you don't then why are you wasting time on this site and in a gym) is to not do anything damaging to your "temple". Treat your body like a fortress - nourish it, protect it from outside threats, strengthen it, etc.

lol... anyone who started marijuana at 13 has serious problems in my opinion. I didn't touch it till I was 18 and still enjoy a toke weekly.

I guess I must be mediocre? Being a 19 year old making a **** ton of money a month from my businesses (yes- more than any corporate job or any job for that matter will ever pay you), taking care of my body, maintaining a high GPA at university, and maintaining a social life is really mediocre ;-)

I also have many other friends who do extremely well. One of my buddies smokes pot everyday (I don't really condone everyday use - but hey, if it doesn't get in their way then its cool) and was just admitted to one of the top law schools in the country... heh I have more like this, also. I actually don't know many "mediocre" pot heads and the ones I do know were already mediocre in the first place.

lol @ talking about your "temple." You wouldn't have to lose 60 pounds if you followed your own advice in the first place, bro.

[canuhandleit]

Originally Posted by donluchiti

Mary Jayne whether it's worse than Cigarettes or alcohol is still in debate. For those who smoke both types and are in the best shape of your life, I'd equate that up to bro-science after all, who knows what your "shape" history has been. Also, I know some skinny smokers, I used to smoke tweed with em for years and they were always kinda muscular and not fat. They wern't skinny from the weed, it was just that they didn't eat alot.

I think alot of the problem with Marijuana is the way it's actually taken, smoking is well, hands down bad for you because of the clogging of the lungs and other affects ingesting smoke will have. If you're here to follow guidelines, and not rely on 1.) genetics that can withstand abnormal amounts of toxins or 2.) small portions of the statistics that go against trends, then quit smoking, whatever it is you're ingesting.

Btw,things "from the earth" don't count as quality, I mean there are mushrooms u can eat that will put you 6 feet under and they are as natural as a stinky Puddy after sex. Also, Weed actually has been bred for the most part to be more potent and contain more THC over the years so it's not exactly "natural" anymore.

No hate though seriously as I quit smoking in January after years of it.

Also, Weed actually has been bred for the most part to be more potent and contain more THC over the years so it's not exactly "natural" anymore.

^^ LMAO. Untrue. What you been reading bro? Clearly not any valid science.

Smoking is bad though - no matter the substance - fact.

[canuhandleit]

Originally Posted by donluchiti

The fact that alcohol is worse than marijuana on pretty much every level isn't debatable at all."


I wouldn't say that, after all there are studies that cite wine being advantageous if consumed mildly. And ask any staunch drinker what is more socially conducive, alcohol or weed. I'd personally say that when I smoked I only wanted to be around smokers or enjoying something on my own (art, music, whatever). I swore off regular pot smoke, but will always admit alkyhol to making folks more social and overall, creating a funner time when in groups.

Wth are you talking about bro? Lol you really don't get it. It doesn't matter which one makes you more sociable, that has nothing to do with anything.

I drink also - and I find it a lot of fun - but I also realize that it's a lot worse for me than just smoking pot. Not to say that smoking pot everyday isn't bad - the health effects of moderate pot smoking is a lot less severe than the health effects of moderate alcohol usage. Combine the health effects with the fact that 1 drink usually decreases your lipolysis and other metabolic processes by 70%+ for 4 hours (that's 1 drink bro). Most people do not consume only 1 drink and once they make it to the 3rd, any advantages are no longer there.


Take a look at this, I remember seeing this in a class last semester so searched and found it:
http://www.udel.edu/chem/theopold/ch...ug%20chart.gif

Take note that alcohol is up there with speed, benzos (xanax), and ketamine.

Take note that cannabis is considered safer than alcohol, as well as: LSD, GHB, Khat, steroids, ecstacy, solvents, etc.

[Bossdjay]

Cortisol is catabolic (eats muscle).

I can tell you first hand that when i smoke on the weekends if I'm at the bar, i end up looking tiny. I once quit smoking for about 3 weeks and was sleeping gopod etc. I was bigger than I've ever been. I could barely fit into my polo shirts!!!!

I think its a combination of the cortisol eating my muscle, and the nicotine shrinking my blood vessels, cutting off nutrients and making me physically flatter...here's what i found..







Cigarette smoking causes a generalized disturbance in adrenal cortical hormone levels (Baron et al., 1995). Whether this can be attributed to a smoking-induced decrease in the activity of either 21- or 11-beta-hydroxylase in the adrenal cortex, resulting in increased secretion of adrenal androgens, or to other mechanisms has not been clarified (Hautanen & Adlercreutz, 1993; Hautanen et al., 1993; Baron et al., 1995). However, peripherally mediated effects may also be important, as nicotine can act additively with ACTH to stimulate adrenal steroidogenesis (Fuxe et al., 1989).

Smokers have substantially higher serum levels of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), its sulfate (DHEAS) and androstenedione (Hautanen et al., 1993; Field et al., 1994; Baron et al., 1995; al'Absi et al., 2003). There is also extensive evidence that cigarette smoking acutely increases circulating cortisol levels (Winternitz & Quillen, 1977; Wilkins et al., 1982; Seyler et al., 1984). Chronic smoking results in higher levels of plasma and salivary cortisol (Field et al., 1994; Baron et al., 1995); however, normal levels of urinary cortisol in smokers have also been reported (Yeh & Barbieri, 1989). A possible mechanism of this action of tobacco smoking is the stimulation of the release of catecholamines from the adrenal medulla, which may facilitate pituitary ACTH secretion (Reisine et al., 1984). Cessation of chronic smoking is associated with a subsequent significant decline in serum cortisol concentrations to nonsmokers' levels (Puddey et al., 1976).

Few studies have examined the effects of tobacco withdrawal on cortisol levels; an increase in cortisol levels has been found after 48 h abstinence compared to levels during ad libitum smoking (Hughes et al., 1988). Many of the nicotine withdrawal symptoms of smokers who try to quit seem to be the body's response to changes in cortisol levels (Hochberg et al., 2003).

In mice, cortisol seems to modulate some of the physiological and behavioural effects of nicotine (Caggiula et al., 1998). It also modulates the responsiveness of mice to nicotine, probably through a reduction in nicotine's access to, or actions at, its receptors, or by acting noncompetitively as allosteric inhibitors of the function of nicotine receptors (Fuxe et al., 1990; Pauly & Collins, 1993; Ke & Lukas, 1996). Whether cortisol also influences nicotine sensitivity in smokers is not known.

Smoking may alter physiological systems involved in the stress response. Smokers show attenuated cortisol and systolic blood pressure response to acute stressors when compared to nonsmokers. The extent to which absent cortisol response is due to an enhanced negative feedback caused by the higher basal cortisol concentrations or to attenuated sensitivity to stress-related physiological activation is not yet clear. Potential central mechanisms involved in the altered stress response include a reduction in the number or affinity of receptors mediating effects of nicotine in different central nervous system structures that integrate the neuroendocrine stress response (al'Absi et al., 2003). Chronic nicotine consumption may also lead to lower responses of other stress hormones (ACTH, prolactin, growth hormone) to a variety of stimuli (Kirschbaum et al., 1994).

Nicotine activates the sympathoadrenal system and increases the synthesis and release of noradrenaline and adrenaline into circulation, and also alters the bioavailability of dopamine (Pomerleau, 1992). Single and repeated injections of nicotine in rats increase the expression of tyrosine hydroxylase, a rate-limiting enzyme in the catecholamine biosynthetic pathway (Hiremagalur & Sabban, 1995).

[EatsRainbows]

Originally Posted by liftingstrong1

+1 . IMO doing drugs is for those who cant handle reality.

Yikes, watch out for this cat. I can just picture him now having a 'high and tight' hair cut and come knocking on your door when your party on friday night gets a little loud for his sensitive ears.

I bet you drink alcohol on occasion. News flash, ALCOHOL is a DRUG. Write that down.

[vinnydaskinny]

Originally Posted by th3pwn3r

Addiction is something weak minded people suffer from in my opinion

you're an idiot

[ticork]

As I was losing 140lbs my flat bench press went from 150lbs max to 315lbs all in 13 months. Squats went from 200lbs to 405lbs. I was 355lbs and benched 150lbs. Now I'm 215lbs and bench 315lbs. Had a strict diet/routine and smoked pot(danks) almost everyday. I hear most people say this is impossible...

[ZEXXEZ]

Originally Posted by BloodReign09

Hi guys! Im a real amateur in the world of bodybuilding and I want to ask for an opinion about the effects of smoking in mascular definition. Does smoking really affect the definition and mascularity of a person??????? Im really curious about it.

If you look at the big picture... a lack of oxygen prohibits muscles from fully functioning... thats pretty much says it all.

[AWhislyle]

Originally Posted by KaBone

Of all the things that doctors say you can do to better your health, the number 1 answer is quit smoking. More than diet, exercise, drinking or drugs. Now, you'll quit smoking one way or another so that doesn't really answer your question. For the most part, no. You will not notice the adverse affects of smoking on your athletic ability until you reach the upper levels of fitness. At that point it comes down to what's more important to you.

And the number two best thing for your health is for a nondrinker to start drinking.

"Research in various countries has found the all-cause mortality rates range from 16 to 28% lower among moderate drinkers (1 - 2 drinks per day) than among abstainers.[13][14][15][16]"

"A 23-year prospective study of 12,000 male British physicians aged 48?78, found that overall mortality was significantly lower in the group consuming an less than 2 "units" (British unit = 8 g) per day than in the non-alcohol-drinking group."

"much medical research suggests that, consumed in moderation, alcohol increases HDL (?good cholesterol?), decreases thrombosis (blood clotting), reduces fibrinogen (a blood clotter), increases fibrinolysis (clot dissolving), reduces artery spasm from stress, increases coronary blood flow and increases insulin sensitivity ? all good for heart health.[24][25] Additionally, Thrombosis is lower among moderate drinkers than teetotalers.[26]"


And this isn't just red wine, it could be hard liquor or beer or anything with ethanol.

[donluchiti]

Canuhandleit,

It's all about the volumes, If I drink twice on the weekend for the whole week, compared to smoking weed everyday, are you still gonna tell me that alcohol is doing my damage to my system?

And if you've ever been a pot-head, like i was you'll know that people tend not to smoke it once a day, more like 5 times a day, at that point ALL the affects (which have to be considered, social, and otherwise) for me defenitly beat Drinking out.

So, yea I know wtf I'm talking about brah

[donluchiti]

Besides, there are neural affects that weed has. I'm not going to cite any studies, but talk to pot heads especialyl the ones who've been at it for years and see how "slow" they are. It's kinda observation based but I've noticed all smokers to either have studders, talk really slow, have slow reaction time, I'd say that weed stays with ya alot longer than a few drinks, despite the fact alchohol kills more people a year than weed does

[BahadurShah]

Originally Posted by donluchiti

The fact that alcohol is worse than marijuana on pretty much every level isn't debatable at all."


I wouldn't say that, after all there are studies that cite wine being advantageous if consumed mildly. And ask any staunch drinker what is more socially conducive, alcohol or weed. I'd personally say that when I smoked I only wanted to be around smokers or enjoying something on my own (art, music, whatever). I swore off regular pot smoke, but will always admit alkyhol to making folks more social and overall, creating a funner time when in groups.

In terms of bodybuilding, a glass of wine will set your progress back more than a puff on a joint will.

Ask any staunch drinker what's more likely to induce behavior that gets them arrested, alcohol or weed.

Alcohol is basically poison. Marijuana, while it has its own set of problems, is not really that harmful in comparison.

I agree w/ the poster that says anyone who started toking at 13 probably has issues..

[BahadurShah]

Originally Posted by donluchiti

Besides, there are neural affects that weed has. I'm not going to cite any studies, but talk to pot heads especialyl the ones who've been at it for years and see how "slow" they are. It's kinda observation based but I've noticed all smokers to either have studders, talk really slow, have slow reaction time, I'd say that weed stays with ya alot longer than a few drinks, despite the fact alchohol kills more people a year than weed does

You're comparing people who smoke pot every day to people who drink in moderation once in a while. Not a valid comparison.

Compare someone who smokes pot every day to someone who drinks alcohol every day. Older heavy drinkers barely have any functional brain cells left.

[donluchiti]

BahadurShah, I think my comparison holds water because

1.) no one on these boards would be drinking everyday and lifting weightss or working out. That's the trick with weed is people think that because it doesn't have as strong an impact on their judgement/ basic functions they can do it and still work, carry on with regular life so they do it in greater frequency.


Ontop of that, usually much less alcohol can affect someone more-so then the amount of weed it takes to be gonzo for the same amount of time. Say 8 drinks for me would have me blingo-ed for a very long time, where it's not as possible to get as gonzo with weed. Again, come back to point 1. Marijuana's affect's aren't as prevailing or as strong, therefore people naturally ingest more of it.

I'm not saying a daily weed smoker is healthyer than someone who's drunk every hour of the day, as those two things are very different. habitual weed smokers generally carry out life in a quasi-healthy life where daily drinkers usually will die, be bums or seek help and possibly kick the habbit all together.

That being said, I still think the debate of which is worse is up in the air.

[donluchiti]

Seriously tho, you're right about alcohol being worse if it's used at the same frequency as weed, I can't even begin to believe that just looking at drunk driving accidents and even family members :/ Guess I was kinda looking at it from an angle of what I see affecting young people.

[canuhandleit]

Originally Posted by donluchiti

Canuhandleit,

It's all about the volumes, If I drink twice on the weekend for the whole week, compared to smoking weed everyday, are you still gonna tell me that alcohol is doing my damage to my system?

And if you've ever been a pot-head, like i was you'll know that people tend not to smoke it once a day, more like 5 times a day, at that point ALL the affects (which have to be considered, social, and otherwise) for me defenitly beat Drinking out.

So, yea I know wtf I'm talking about brah

You can't compare moderation and abuse. I have enough pot head friends to know that most of them function fine in society (multiple joints a day). One is becoming a doctor, another a dentist, and another a lawyer. Another friend is still in uni trying to become a lawyer, smokes alot but is smart and smokes and then goes out in public and is usually more talkative. Oh, and met a friends friend 3 weeks ago who is a 2nd year med student and smokes pot 24/7... maybe I just meet a ton of smart people. I think the people who were ambitious prior to pot smoking stay ambitious. A lot of heavy pot smokers simply didn't have much ambition in the first place, I know a few of those also.

The thing is, you can either become a couch potato pot head or one that does fine functioning in society.

But certainly, drinking vs. smoking as far as bodybuilding goes... drinking will hurt more. And as far as health effects, same goes. Excess pot smokers may *sometimes* get slow (are you sure they aren't on something else? I only know ONE pot head who is slow and he does too many drugs so it has to be something else) - but at least if they stop they'll be fine again for the most part. The average alcoholics brain is usually EXTREMELY TINY by the time of death and they have the condition of hydrocephalis (water filled in the head to make up for the shrunken brain). Pot won't shrink brains. Most alcoholics won't be in medical school or be too ambitious in anything for that matter (exceptions would apply I suppose depending on when they became an alcoholic).

The addiction potential for pot is obviously there due to mental addiction, but the physical addiction isn't there. It's about 100x easier and safer than quitting alcohol... trying to quit alcohol cold turkey is life threatening and quite literally can lead to death unless done so properly. You said you smoked a lot of pot, right? Was it hard to quit? Doesn't seem like it. I've quit for 4 months without thinking twice.

Dude, I enjoy both substances in moderation, so i'm not too biased. I just know the facts.

[Grimmjowl]

I am really digging all of the broscience in this thread, throwing such intellectual words around as "gonzo" and "bling-od". Really high quality research here, fellas.

Seriously, if all you're going to do is throw around ideas that "make sense to you" without any evidence to back it up, just don't post at all. Opinionated empirical evidence doesn't mean anything. Same goes for producing research and evidence that is either untopical or irrelevant. Gets really, really annoying trying to search for validity through all this junk.

[donluchiti]

Actually I had broken my stint of abstaining from pot once- for about a week. It was, like you said not so much of an addiction in the way that I physically needed it. It was more like I was extremely depressed due to some life stuff happening and I found myself smoking for a week. Truly a testament to the mental aspects of weed being a coping mechanism for other issues, and really a distraction.

Neurologically, there's just GOT to be a long term affect. I'm not trying to pass it off as scientific fact, but I'd be interested to see some long term studies, 30-50 years of pot-smoking and what it does. Maybe the less-ambitious people are more inclined to take up smoking because it satisfies their momentary needs and keeps them content in the moment. Ambitious folks who use pot, seems like an outlier (or at least 10% of all smokers) to me, but I know a few of those, although again,they are in the minority.

As far as neurlogic long term affects go, just seems to me anything that artificially plays with your dopamine and those chemicals which are altered when you take that first hit screws up your natural levels so you rely on pot to essentially feel good (could that count as a mental addiction?)

I remember working as a valet at a really ritzy health club in the Twin cities here, we would hop in doctor's and lawyer's cars and find nuggets in the ashtrays, the door pockets and sometimes we'd even go looking for it in the trunk if we smelled it. Rat bunch we were. Pot heads are among all walks of life, I think it harkens to the conversations in here which say "genetically everyone is different", and Bro-science, "what works for me, is different for you". Even then agreeing on the definition of "works" can be in limbo.

[b1979]

Not sure if someone mentioned it, but smoking also restricts blood flow or the like.

Thats why docs tell smokers to not smoke after surgeries so that the blood flow won't be affected and it will heal properly.

Brad