I have a 400lb client, what is a proper caloric intake

[koreanizm]

I am curious as to what equation I could use for a larger set client. I never had a client of his size before.

Thanks for the inputs!

[koreanizm]

anyone?!

[Simmo0508]

It's none of your business. Refer them onto a good dietician who's had experience with such large individuals.

Unless you yourself have a nutritional qualification behind you, which i doubt since if you did, you wouldn't be needing to ask the question in the first place.

Building a strong referral and networking system with other health professionals is one of the first things you should do as a trainer. Introduce yourself to new people out there, build professional relationships etc. They do half the work most of the time. Takes the stress off our shoulders and just leaves us to take care of the physical training side of things.

[KevinConflict]

Or just go here http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html. You could also get a rough estimate by multiplying bodyweight by 13.

[Simmo0508]

4300 calories for a 400lb man trying to lose a ton of weight?!

[KevinConflict]

No, the number you get is what they need to maintain their weight. If you dont know what to do with that number once youve got it then you should just give up now and save yourself the trouble. If your talking about where the calories come from, then yeah your leaving the "scope" of your "practice", but you dont need any kind of specialized training to know that we all have daily metabolic requirements and if we eat under those we lose weight.

[Environ]

This person needs to be working with a registered dietician. Generally people like this are put on a very low calorie diet (VLCD) and monitored by a medical team if they are on an inpatient weight loss programe or by a doctor and registered dietician if they are trying to lose weight on their own.

You focus on the client's exercise regime. Motivation will be a huge factor with this person to you will have to work hard at that too. But the diet is not for you.

[cantcatchme2009]

tell him to eat 3500 calories 400 grams of protein and iguess 300 carbs a day.

[Gr3g_Lycan]

Having been near that weight myself

1. I'd get them to talk to their Dr first, have blood work done for fasting blood glucose, choloseterol, blood pressure, etc.
2. their Dr may be able to suggest a dietitian. Dietitians are useful up to a point. Many obese people are carb crazy. A VLCD may be useful but they are hard to follow. 1500-1800 cal is probably the target range.
3. ask them about energy levels and hunger levels. There are good prescription appetite supressants, even metamucil can work as an appetite supressant.
4. get them walking at least 40 mins a day for cardio, if nothing else

[rnaco]

refer out to a dietician. Someone this obese you should be just trying to make the exercise enjoyable so it become a long term habit. Let the professionals handle the food component.

[Halothane]

Refer it to someone who can handle the weight problem. You don't seem to know what your doing, anyway.

[cantcatchme2009]

i got a comment from greg t in my user cp calling me an idiot for telling you he should be on a 3500 400 gram protein diet...um greg idk how smart you are but if his maintenance calories are almost 4400 he shouldnt be going below 3500 or else he will hit starvation mode and gain weight. and even if he doesnt hit starvation mode he will still lose to much weight being on a diet less than 3500 and will lose muscle more than fat. the fact that hes getting 400 grams of protein ensures that the 3500 calories are pretty clean, and the fact the carbs arent over 300 ensures this as well. obviously 300 carbs is a little high as well, but its kind of hard to hit the other guidelines without having signifigant amounts of carbs.


btw you repped me instead of negging me js.

[Rap_Rocky]

Originally Posted by cantcatchme2009

i got a comment from greg t in my user cp calling me an idiot for telling you he should be on a 3500 400 gram protein diet...um greg idk how smart you are but if his maintenance calories are almost 4400 he shouldnt be going below 3500 or else he will hit starvation mode and gain weight. and even if he doesnt hit starvation mode he will still lose to much weight being on a diet less than 3500 and will lose muscle more than fat. the fact that hes getting 400 grams of protein ensures that the 3500 calories are pretty clean, and the fact the carbs arent over 300 ensures this as well. obviously 300 carbs is a little high as well, but its kind of hard to hit the other guidelines without having signifigant amounts of carbs.


btw you repped me instead of negging me js.

I'm not favoring one person's side over the other, but I don't know why someone as overweight as the individual would need to consume so many grams of protein (let me guess, the ol' one gram per pound eh?). Ingesting 400 grams of protein doesn't solidify the fact that his calories are coming clean, nor does him going below his maintenance ensure he will be losing more muscle than fat -- let's be honest, at 400lbs, how much muscle do you think he has to keep? A person at his weight shouldn't be too focused on maintaining/losing muscle mass, but rather getting more aerobic activity in his daily life.

With his size, you'll want to refer him to a registered nutritionist/dietician and until then, tell him to make small adjustments to his diet that he is comfortable making (for example, tell him to eat 3 chicken wings, and balance it with a salad if he normally eats 6+ pieces with fries). Also, be sure to encourage him on getting some more physical activity in -- such as walking to places he'd normally drive to, or getting up to do some household chores when there's nothing to watch on tv.


Oh, but don't worry, I don't think you're an idiot for saying what you said. =]

[Newbtime]

Originally Posted by cantcatchme2009

tell him to eat 3500 calories 400 grams of protein and iguess 300 carbs a day.

No?

[Henri642]

Squats and deadlifts

[partymonster975]

Nothing yet, if hes been eating this ****ty making him count calories will not be the right first step. He obviously has trouble with diets and self control.

For now, tell him to eat clean, only drink water and actual green tea u have to make with a tea bag. Maybe one and ONLY ONE, DIET soda a day if he needs it.
Tell him to eat 4-6 meals a day. Protein and veggies with every meal and to cut all carbs out of his diet 4-6 hours before bed. As for carbs, mostly fruit and veggies.

Also, tell him to only eat when he is truly hungry. Most ppl just eat b/c food is there or they are bored. If he is training properly he will be hungry and those 4-6 meals will cover it. But, to check if hes truly hungry, tell him...
As soon as he feel hunger, Wait about 15min and during this time drink a glass of water. If after 15 minutes he is hungry, tell him to eat, if hes not. Its just his body craving what he doesnt need.

Also, tell him to walk or ride an excersise bike for 20-30 minutes 4-6 times a week. NOT RUN.
Just get them moving more. Heck, maybe even some excersise/walking in the swimming pool if they want to.

[partymonster975]

Originally Posted by Simmo0508

It's none of your business. Refer them onto a good dietician who's had experience with such large individuals.

Unless you yourself have a nutritional qualification behind you, which i doubt since if you did, you wouldn't be needing to ask the question in the first place.

Building a strong referral and networking system with other health professionals is one of the first things you should do as a trainer. Introduce yourself to new people out there, build professional relationships etc. They do half the work most of the time. Takes the stress off our shoulders and just leaves us to take care of the physical training side of things.

x2 and a HUGE key here is networking. Know who is legit, most dietitians are retarded and fallow fads. I've seen better nutrition advice from top coaches who have no "qualifications" in nutrition than any register dietitian. (they usually just go by the book)

[ppalmerjr]

I just recently lost 90lbs but I started at about 330. My nutritionist had me on this formula

Your current weight x 10 - 500 = daily calorie intake to lose approx 1 lb a week

3500calories = 1lb
***********************
Example

400lb dude should eat 4000 calories to maintain and then 3500 calories to lose 1lb a week.

[Rap_Rocky]

Originally Posted by partymonster975

Nothing yet, if hes been eating this ****ty making him count calories will not be the right first step. He obviously has trouble with diets and self control.

For now, tell him to eat clean, only drink water and actual green tea u have to make with a tea bag. Maybe one and ONLY ONE, DIET soda a day if he needs it.
Tell him to eat 4-6 meals a day. Protein and veggies with every meal and to cut all carbs out of his diet 4-6 hours before bed. As for carbs, mostly fruit and veggies.

Also, tell him to only eat when he is truly hungry. Most ppl just eat b/c food is there or they are bored. If he is training properly he will be hungry and those 4-6 meals will cover it. But, to check if hes truly hungry, tell him...
As soon as he feel hunger, Wait about 15min and during this time drink a glass of water. If after 15 minutes he is hungry, tell him to eat, if hes not. Its just his body craving what he doesnt need.

Also, tell him to walk or ride an excersise bike for 20-30 minutes 4-6 times a week. NOT RUN.
Just get them moving more. Heck, maybe even some excersise/walking in the swimming pool if they want to.

Agree with most of what you said to a certain extent. I wouldn't advise any morbidly obese client to engage in water aerobics solely as their aerobic activity. People carrying that type of weight typically say that it's "better on their joints". But on the contrary, I'd think you'd want somebody who's 400lbs or so to participate in activities such as walking or step-ups, where they're able to get in the habit of shifting their weight without some type of bouyance, like pools, making it more functional in the process. Biking would be ok, but I personally would prefer that individual to use the treadmill, so he can get in the habit of walking, as well as using more muscle groups to burn more calories.

[partymonster975]

Originally Posted by Rap_Rocky

Agree with most of what you said to a certain extent. I wouldn't advise any morbidly obese client to engage in water aerobics solely as their aerobic activity. People carrying that type of weight typically say that it's "better on their joints". But on the contrary, I'd think you'd want somebody who's 400lbs or so to participate in activities such as walking or step-ups, where they're able to get in the habit of shifting their weight without some type of bouyance, like pools, making it more functional in the process. Biking would be ok, but I personally would prefer that individual to use the treadmill, so he can get in the habit of walking, as well as using more muscle groups to burn more calories.

yea, I dont mean for water aerobics to be there main one, only as a change of pace and possible make it more enjoyable. But it depends, being they are that fat, taking there shirt off and walking in the pool might make them uncomfortable.

[kgitaitis]

OKAY!! Stop worrying about numbers and have your client on healthy eating...lots fresh fruits, veggies, whole grains, lean meats, limited packaged foods, fatty and sugary foods. Focus on developing a HEALTHY diet and the weight will fall off! Once they get smaller you can start worrying about numbers..but if they are eating the right things right now, as high as their weight in..THEY WILL LOSE weight!!

I am a trainer and I specialize in obese clients...

[DevilMayAsian]

Tell him to eat 2,000 Cal, 50g protein, and 120 Carbs, a day.

[Simmo0508]

Originally Posted by DevilMayAsian

Tell him to eat 2,000 Cal, 50g protein, and 120 Carbs, a day.

And where did you pull that number and those macros from? Your ass?

[joshrider]

Originally Posted by Simmo0508

And where did you pull that number and those macros from? Your ass?

Seemingly he did. 2000 calories, 50g protein, 120g carbohydrate is stupid on several levels and completely random.

[Gr3g_Lycan]

Originally Posted by cantcatchme2009

i got a comment from greg t in my user cp calling me an idiot for telling you he should be on a 3500 400 gram protein diet...um greg idk how smart you are but if his maintenance calories are almost 4400 he shouldnt be going below 3500 or else he will hit starvation mode and gain weight. .

Its simple. If he turned up in a hospital he would be put on a product like Optifast, a VLCD of about 600 cal http://www.optifast.com/Pages/clinical_outcomes.aspx . This link cites 80 peer-reviewed studies on VLCD diets for the severely obese. Yes these are down to 600 cal per day,

I suggest you read http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113310851 including my posts on minimum nutritional requirements.

As for, "starvation mode" I stared a thread on that broscience as well http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113443111

[Environ]

Originally Posted by joshrider

Seemingly he did. 2000 calories, 50g protein, 120g carbohydrate is stupid on several levels and completely random.

And it's 147 grams of fat per day or 66% of his daily caloric intake.

[koreanizm]

Originally Posted by Halothane

Refer it to someone who can handle the weight problem. You don't seem to know what your doing, anyway.

Thanks a lot dick. I referred him out to a doctor for clearance. He was not physically cleared so he is on a diet until he loses another 100lbs for another check up.