squating and knees behind toes? I have a few questions.

[naturalbbglory]

So from what every trainer i know, when you squat your knees should never go past the toes. But i personally find this very hard to do. To perform them with my knees not going past my toes i have to use a lot lower weight.

I was wondering if bringing your knees beyond your toes really causes knee problems? i have really noticed anything so far.

[Al Swearengen]

that's a myth. just work on keeping the weight on your heels and all will be good. you should be able to lift your toes a bit while squatting if the weight is on the heels like it should be and don't worry about them being past the toes.

[wendell80]

Push your butt out as you lower yourself. It will keep your knee's and ankle's aligned. Most people i see in the gym squat form is wrong. Grab just the bar and work on your form it will help alot. good luck

[alucidinterval]

as long as you keep on your heels you'll be fine. if you watch olympic lifters during their squats and catches, their knees are usually well past their toes, but they are pushing through their heels. but also, try box squats. they'll help teach you to sit back into the squat and recruit your hamstrings more.

[rock201]

The only thing you should be thinking relating to knees is "Knees out".

[iSkinny]

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/en...ees-over-toes/

The study the above article is referring to:

Fry AC, Smith JC, Schilling BK. Effect of knee position on hip and knee torques during the barbell squat. J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Nov;17(4):629-33.

Human Performance Laboratories, The University of Memphis, Memphis, Tennessee 38152, USA.

Some recommendations suggest keeping the shank as vertical as possible during the barbell squat, thus keeping the knees from moving past the toes. This study examined joint kinetics occurring when forward displacement of the knees is restricted vs. when such movement is not restricted. Seven weight-trained men (mean +/- SD; age = 27.9 +/- 5.2 years) were videotaped while performing 2 variations of parallel barbell squats (barbell load = body weight). Either the knees were permitted to move anteriorly past the toes (unrestricted) or a wooden barrier prevented the knees from moving anteriorly past the toes (restricted). Differences resulted between static knee and hip torques for both types of squat as well as when both squat variations were compared with each other (p < 0.05). For the unrestricted squat, knee torque (N.m; mean +/- SD) = 150.1 +/- 50.8 and hip torque = 28.2 +/- 65.0. For the restricted squat, knee torque = 117.3 +/- 34.2 and hip torque = 302.7 +/- 71.2. Restricted squats also produced more anterior lean of the trunk and shank and a greater internal angle at the knees and ankles. The squat technique used can affect the distribution of forces between the knees and hips and on the kinematic properties of the exercise. PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS: Although restricting forward movement of the knees may minimize stress on the knees, it is likely that forces are inappropriately transferred to the hips and low-back region. Thus, appropriate joint loading during this exercise may require the knees to move slightly past the toes.

[crackyflipside]

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen

that's a myth. just work on keeping the weight on your heels and all will be good. you should be able to lift your toes a bit while squatting if the weight is on the heels like it should be and don't worry about them being past the toes.

Holy ****, knowledge in the exercise section!

FUKKIN REPPED

[ramrod63]

Originally Posted by iSkinny

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/en...ees-over-toes/

The study the above article is referring to:

Fry AC, Smith JC, Schilling BK. Effect of knee position on hip and knee torques during the barbell squat. J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Nov;17(4):629-33.

Human Performance Laboratories, The University of Memphis, Memphis, Tennessee 38152, USA.

Some recommendations suggest keeping the shank as vertical as possible during the barbell squat, thus keeping the knees from moving past the toes. This study examined joint kinetics occurring when forward displacement of the knees is restricted vs. when such movement is not restricted. Seven weight-trained men (mean +/- SD; age = 27.9 +/- 5.2 years) were videotaped while performing 2 variations of parallel barbell squats (barbell load = body weight). Either the knees were permitted to move anteriorly past the toes (unrestricted) or a wooden barrier prevented the knees from moving anteriorly past the toes (restricted). Differences resulted between static knee and hip torques for both types of squat as well as when both squat variations were compared with each other (p < 0.05). For the unrestricted squat, knee torque (N.m; mean +/- SD) = 150.1 +/- 50.8 and hip torque = 28.2 +/- 65.0. For the restricted squat, knee torque = 117.3 +/- 34.2 and hip torque = 302.7 +/- 71.2. Restricted squats also produced more anterior lean of the trunk and shank and a greater internal angle at the knees and ankles. The squat technique used can affect the distribution of forces between the knees and hips and on the kinematic properties of the exercise. PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS: Although restricting forward movement of the knees may minimize stress on the knees, it is likely that forces are inappropriately transferred to the hips and low-back region. Thus, appropriate joint loading during this exercise may require the knees to move slightly past the toes.

heres one reason to not let your knees go past your toes but like most people said as long as your pushing with your heels youll be fine
if you have trouble squatting it might be because of flexibility issues, try putting 5lb plates under your heels and squatting

[naturalbbglory]

everything in my squat seems to be fine. The other day i was squatting with 225 and going low - below parallel for the first 2 then parallel for the remainder 6. When i was finished i shook my legs out. This guy who said he was a trainer told me it looks like i have knee pains and its because my knees are going to forward past my knees. I had someone else check it out a few days later and its maybe an inch past.

edit: thanks for the help. i'll rep you all, even though i still have small greens.

[Nicolas_Hart]

Originally Posted by naturalbbglory

So from what every trainer i know, when you squat your knees should never go past the toes. But i personally find this very hard to do. To perform them with my knees not going past my toes i have to use a lot lower weight.

I was wondering if bringing your knees beyond your toes really causes knee problems? i have really noticed anything so far.

I have not read anyone elses responses to you yet.

Though, this idea that the knee's should not track past the toes is ridiculous. There's no biomechanical evidence that I've found, that can suggest any danger by doing so. It is merely one mans lazy observation, which many new kids have decided to preach to the world.

I'm fairly confident t-nation.com has a few good articles discussing the lack of validity of this observation.

[tmac4919]

Regarding knees past toes. If it doesn't bother you with heavy weight, then it doesn't matter. Knees past toes can place extra stress on your ankles, achilles tendon, and calfs, but again if it doesn't bother you.........

[imnothere3221]

your knees should go above the toes...If you initiate the movement with your hips you won't have to worry about it.