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03-13-2009, 09:16 AM
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#661
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Spiritual~
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: From Brazil Originally, But living In, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
Age: 22
Stats: 5'9", 193 lbs
Posts: 9,931
BodyPoints: 8683
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By beleiving in one God and only one God. No sons, no fathers, no mothers, brothers, sisters etc. No associating partners with God, no worshiping anything else beside from God and that's heaven worthy.
__________________
I seem to receive alot of P.M's on nutrition advice, training & other general things, please give me time to reply, I don't mind answering your questions, thanks! Ladies and Gents.
أشهد أن لا إله إلاَّ الله و أشهد أن محمد رسول الله
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/ \ I ♥ ~BMBC~
Want to make some cash? I will P A Y your way into today! To be honest, I made more on this than my former job.
http://traxad.com/r/Adam110_tbb
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03-13-2009, 10:42 AM
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#662
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Momofo Alliance
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Connecticut, United States
Age: 31
Posts: 2,293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx
You're left with two choices.
A) God always was and all things were created by Him
B) Matter always was and created all things.
I choose to believe A because on top of the fact that matter cannot create it's self, there is tons of other evidence to prove that there is in fact a God. The bible and the prophecies that are coming to pass which are and were predicted in the bible, Miracles, the supernatural, my own personal relationship with God, the testimony of others and the fact that there is no way that the life and order of this planet could have come about on it's own.
A is the only logical choice.
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I cannot speak on your personal relationship with God, but talking about the truth of the Bible is laughable. Contradictions, lack of understanding about natural laws, false prophecies (i.e. Jesus predicting the end of the world during his time which didn't happen), all point to a very suspect manuscript, at least in the literal sense. God has not been proved by anybody; heck there hasn't even been one single God which has been available to all cultures since it's religious inception, including your Yahweh-Jesus, so how can there be a God "proved" to exist universally??? You might as well replace "God" with "Pink Fluffy Bunny" and you would have the exact same argument regarding First Cause.
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03-13-2009, 10:50 AM
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#663
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getting fat on purpose
Join Date: May 2007
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Posts: 3,892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momofo
You might as well replace "God" with "Pink Fluffy Bunny" and you would have the exact same argument regarding First Cause.
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or "flying spaghetti monster":
http://www.venganza.org/
Even if a creator could be proven it wouldn't suggest anything about Christianity specifically, or any religion for that matter (except maybe Deism).
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RAWesome
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03-13-2009, 10:52 AM
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#664
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Momofo Alliance
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Connecticut, United States
Age: 31
Posts: 2,293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjdelaney
or "flying spaghetti monster":
http://www.venganza.org/
Even if a creator could be proven it wouldn't suggest anything about Christianity specifically, or any religion for that matter (except maybe Deism). |
HAHAHAHA! Yeah I was going to put that but thought that'd be a bit plagiaristic of me. By the way, FSM looks kinda like Cthulhu on that credit card... 
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03-13-2009, 10:20 PM
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#665
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 496
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 1835
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No, you really wouldn't have the same arguement due to the fact that there is other evidence that there is a God, BESIDES the first cause arguement. The first cause arguement simply narrows it down to two choices, either
A) there is a self existing God that created all things
or
B) there is matter that isn't able to be self existing, that is self existing (illogical)
The next thing to look at is the other evidence that there is a God such as:
Miracles, supernatural activity, the bible, the fulfilled prophecies in the bible, testimonies of people who have seen/spoken with God or witnessed His actions and/or have a personal relationship with Him (born again Christians such as myself)
Not to mention the scientific evidence that points to His existence and the validity of the bible.
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03-14-2009, 07:52 AM
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#666
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getting fat on purpose
Join Date: May 2007
Stats: 6'0", 999 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx
No, you really wouldn't have the same arguement due to the fact that there is other evidence that there is a God, BESIDES the first cause arguement. The first cause arguement simply narrows it down to two choices, either
A) there is a self existing God that created all things
or
B) there is matter that isn't able to be self existing, that is self existing (illogical)
The next thing to look at is the other evidence that there is a God such as:
Miracles, supernatural activity, the bible, the fulfilled prophecies in the bible, testimonies of people who have seen/spoken with God or witnessed His actions and/or have a personal relationship with Him (born again Christians such as myself)
Not to mention the scientific evidence that points to His existence and the validity of the bible.
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the first cause argument is illogical. First cause only begs the question: "what caused god?". That is why they changed the wording and called it the Kalam argument. For someone who is trying to play apologist over the internet you could really do a better job of staying current with your rhetoric.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx
The next thing to look at is the other evidence that there is a God such as:
Miracles, supernatural activity, the bible, the fulfilled prophecies in the bible, testimonies of people who have seen/spoken with God or witnessed His actions and/or have a personal relationship with Him (born again Christians such as myself)
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all of these things are meaningless. The same sort of "evidence" can be conjured up to defend the existence of a flying spaghetti monster, Brahma, or Zeus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx
Not to mention the scientific evidence that points to His existence and the validity of the bible.
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such as?
__________________
RAWesome
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03-14-2009, 09:57 AM
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#667
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Momofo Alliance
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Connecticut, United States
Age: 31
Posts: 2,293
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx
No, you really wouldn't have the same arguement due to the fact that there is other evidence that there is a God, BESIDES the first cause arguement. The first cause arguement simply narrows it down to two choices, either
A) there is a self existing God that created all things
or
B) there is matter that isn't able to be self existing, that is self existing (illogical)
The next thing to look at is the other evidence that there is a God such as:
Miracles, supernatural activity, the bible, the fulfilled prophecies in the bible, testimonies of people who have seen/spoken with God or witnessed His actions and/or have a personal relationship with Him (born again Christians such as myself)
Not to mention the scientific evidence that points to His existence and the validity of the bible.
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Apparently you haven't read your Bible. Here, let me give you just one choice instance of "scientific validity" *cough cough* Biblical-style: Genesis 30:37-39 where Jacob breeds his cattle in front of differently-patterned rods so the offspring would be born with the same markings as the rods. That was an Ancient Hebrew superstition at a time when they knew nothing of genetics.
Please affirm that for me scientifically. While you're at it, will you please address the fact that for many centuries the vast majority of the world's population had never heard of the Judeo-Christian worldview (and there still are some who haven't to this day)... therefore how can it be universally valid???
You've pretty much blown off my few of many examples of intrabiblical contradictions and I assume you will continue to do so, but I will just reiterate for anyone reading this thread that there are many internal inconsistencies in the Bible; for a few examples read through this thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?p=289696971
Face it xfrodobagginsx, your theory of one right religion for everybody that has been scientifically affirmed is wrong and has been shattered. Irrevocably.
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03-14-2009, 10:40 AM
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#668
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Missouri, United States
Age: 27
Stats: 6'0", 179 lbs
Posts: 535
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To the OP...
Good for you man, I know its tough to shine a light in a darkening world. It can be tough for a Christian to take a stand and I commend you for it. The bible says our purpose is to glorify him. We can only plant the seed. Its not in our human empowerment to change hearts, only God can do that. But good for you for turning heads and drawing attention to the most complete Love that mankind has ever known. How awesome that 60+ people have accepted Christ as their savior because of this forum?! Praise the Lord!!!
I prayed that prayer on Valentines day 1993.
To the non-believers. I'm not gonna lie to you or sugarcoat anything. I'm not gonna try to prove anything. Regardless of your walk of life or where you came from or where you're going, my Jesus loves you. He might not be yours right now, but mine definitely loves you. Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, he does. He died to prove it. Its completely up to you whether you want to accept it. You can question what I believe all you want, but you'll never be able to question whether or not I believe it. All that matters to me.
God bless you all...
I'm praying for you...
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03-14-2009, 10:44 AM
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#669
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
Age: 27
Stats: 6'2", 176 lbs
Posts: 5,097
BodyBlog Entries: 0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adilrockstar
Actually they did have a chance, it is called free will. God knew what they would choose but he gave them free will to choose for themselves. We however can be forgiven through the acceptance and service to Christ. You have the free will to choose right now to give yourself to God and Jesus. However you aren't really interested in doing that. So you say that God isn't real because it removes the responsiblity to Him that you innately have in your heart. Excuses will not work on judgment day.
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and therein lies the rub.
if god is omnipotent and omniscient, then god knows what you will do, what you have done, and what you are doing.
so the idea that there is "free will" is a bit of a red herring, really. god knows who will sin, and who wont. he knows who will repent, and who wont, and who will accept him and who wont.
so there is no need for us to live out this silly charade. if he knows the future, including what decisions we will and wont make, then there is no such thing as a fair judgement. those who would sin have no chance.
__________________
MUAY THAI
Amateur; 4-1
"Pro" 1-1
Next Fight; 7th March. *actually, ive just been told i have an amateur one on the 21st of Feb too*
(goddamn it, i can never remember how many fights ive had!!!)
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03-14-2009, 11:09 AM
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#670
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Wants The 4 Foot Zipper
Join Date: Nov 2006
Stats: 6'0", 193 lbs
Posts: 8,123
BodyPoints: 9079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus IV
Does one have to get baptized in order to be able to go to heaven? Is baptism a prerequisite?
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someone answer this
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03-14-2009, 11:39 AM
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#671
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Missouri, United States
Age: 27
Stats: 6'0", 179 lbs
Posts: 535
BodyBlog Entries: 0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus IV
someone answer this
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Nope, baptism not required... Only that you accept the free gift of salvation. Thats all. Baptism is a way to show publicly that you have accepted that gift. It represents, death, burial, and resurrection. Jesus was baptized and we do it based on his example of sins being washed away..
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03-14-2009, 12:34 PM
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#672
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Resident Animal
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia, United States
Age: 22
Stats: 5'11", 210 lbs
Posts: 1,605
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 0
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OP, how many forums have you joined?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...x&start=0&sa=N
There are 20 pages.
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03-14-2009, 12:42 PM
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#673
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 21
Stats: 6'0", 245 lbs
Posts: 16,281
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 33596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAPlowhorse
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He thinks hes helping people. LOL What a retard. I tricked him and made him think I converted to christianity because of this thread. He was so happy and was like "praise god lol!" What a dip****.
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03-14-2009, 02:16 PM
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#674
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Here's beer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: In the bar
Posts: 7,900
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 6378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanic
He thinks hes helping people. LOL What a retard. I tricked him and made him think I converted to christianity because of this thread. He was so happy and was like "praise god lol!" What a dip****.
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It's mean to trick people who are a bit slow.
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03-14-2009, 08:39 PM
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#675
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 496
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 1835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanic
He thinks hes helping people. LOL What a retard. I tricked him and made him think I converted to christianity because of this thread. He was so happy and was like "praise god lol!" What a dip****.
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The only one who you've hurt is yourself. You didn't hurt me.
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03-14-2009, 08:54 PM
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#677
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AtheistAllianceLifeguard
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Folsom, California, United States
Age: 21
Stats: 5'8", 182 lbs
Posts: 15,784
BodyBlog Entries: 0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAPlowhorse
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lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx
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i just wiki'd this guy
lol, is there anyone more desperate to look educated than he is?
even other creationists hate him
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4th year Microbio
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03-14-2009, 09:36 PM
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#678
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ʇɥƃıu ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɟ
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United States
Stats: 5'10", 175 lbs
Posts: 2,772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaCougarMech
lol
i just wiki'd this guy
lol, is there anyone more desperate to look educated than he is?
even other creationists hate him
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Yea, I listen to some of kent hovind and he pretty much said all this scientists are liars.
He lost big time credibility to me when he said that. Also when he said we walked with dinosaurs.
__________________
I am #10 of the Circle of Twelve
Online.
★★★Atheist Alliance★★★
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03-14-2009, 09:42 PM
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#679
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AtheistAllianceLifeguard
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Folsom, California, United States
Age: 21
Stats: 5'8", 182 lbs
Posts: 15,784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _ATHEIST_
Yea, I listen to some of kent hovind and he pretty much said all this scientists are liars.
He lost big time credibility to me when he said that. Also when he said we walked with dinosaurs.
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i dont really get into debaters and stuff, but wow
how anybody would even lend a quarter to this hovind guy after reading his wiki is beyond me
the "college" where he got his diplomas from look smaller than my apartment
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4th year Microbio
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03-14-2009, 09:48 PM
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#680
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Wants The 4 Foot Zipper
Join Date: Nov 2006
Stats: 6'0", 193 lbs
Posts: 8,123
BodyPoints: 9079
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03-14-2009, 09:54 PM
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#681
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AtheistAllianceLifeguard
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Folsom, California, United States
Age: 21
Stats: 5'8", 182 lbs
Posts: 15,784
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 25627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus IV
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i like how everyone just tells him to stfu, even the christian forums
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4th year Microbio
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03-14-2009, 10:13 PM
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#682
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Here's beer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: In the bar
Posts: 7,900
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 6378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx
Evolution vs. Creation debate. Kent Hovind explains why evolution is wrong.
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Kent Hovind the liar, fraud and convicted criminal? Sounds credible.
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03-14-2009, 10:20 PM
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#683
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Elroy Jetson
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Georgia, United States
Age: 20
Stats: 6'3", 221 lbs
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Kent Hovind makes me want to believe in evolution.
__________________
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There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe them. -George Orwell
I rape back (300+) (put 300+ in your comment)
R/P UPCC 4 LYFE
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03-14-2009, 11:09 PM
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#684
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ʇɥƃıu ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɟ
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United States
Stats: 5'10", 175 lbs
Posts: 2,772
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaCougarMech
i like how everyone just tells him to stfu, even the christian forums
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haha. i don't know what exactly this guy is trying to do. Mass spam heaven internet religion.
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Online.
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Last edited by _ATHEIST_; 03-15-2009 at 01:35 AM.
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03-15-2009, 08:35 AM
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#685
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Momofo Alliance
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Connecticut, United States
Age: 31
Posts: 2,293
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanic
He thinks hes helping people. LOL What a retard. I tricked him and made him think I converted to christianity because of this thread. He was so happy and was like "praise god lol!" What a dip****.
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To be fair, I couldn't tell when you first wrote that if you were serious or not. Then when you said something along the lines of "Sweet baby Jesus I am!" I chuckled and said "he's just messing with this guy".
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03-15-2009, 08:36 AM
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#686
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Momofo Alliance
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Connecticut, United States
Age: 31
Posts: 2,293
BodyBlog Entries: 0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _ATHEIST_
haha. i don't know what exactly this guy is trying to do. Mass spam heaven internet religion.
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He's trying to evangelize but is doing a really bad job of it. He can't offer any defenses, he misstates classic arguments... but the wheel keeps on turning.
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03-15-2009, 08:55 AM
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#687
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getting fat on purpose
Join Date: May 2007
Stats: 6'0", 999 lbs
Posts: 3,892
BodyBlog Entries: 0
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Guys,
I think this dude is really an atheist and he is just doing this in an attempt to make christians look bad.
I don't think anyone could actually do this bad of a job on purpose.
this is good for some laughs though:
Quote:
[edit] The Hovind Theory
Hovind summarizes his version of the young Earth creation story into the self-titled "Hovind Theory" taken from a variety of creationist sources.[39][40] The "Hovind Theory" was presented at Hovind lectures and in his work "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution".[40] Hovind explained the Biblical account of Noah as follows: Noah's family and two of every "kind" of animal (including young dinosaurs)[41] safely boarded the Ark before a minus 300? F (~-184?C) ice meteor came flying toward the earth and broke up in space. Some of the meteor fragments became rings and others caused the impact craters on the moon and some of the planets. The remaining ice fragments fell to the north and south poles of the earth.
He explains the fossils were created by billions of organisms that were washed together by the mass destruction of the worldwide flood, completely buried, and rapidly fossilized.[42]
The resulting "super-cold snow" fell near the poles, burying the mammoths standing up.[43] Ice on the North and South pole cracked the crust of the earth releasing the fountains of the deep, which in turn caused certain ice age effects, namely the glacier effects. This made the earth "wobble around" and collapsed the vapor canopy that protected it.
During the first few months of the flood, the dead animals and plants were buried, and became oil and coal, respectively. The last few months of the flood included geological instability, when the plates shifted. This period saw the formation of both ocean basins and mountain ranges and the resulting water run-off caused incredible erosion — Hovind states that the Grand Canyon was formed in a couple of weeks during this time.[44] After a few hundred years, the ice caps slowly melted back retreating to their current size and the ocean levels increased, creating the continental shelves. The deeper oceans absorbed much of the carbon dioxide in earth’s atmosphere and thus allowed greater amounts of radiation to reach the earth's surface. As a result, human lifespans were shortened considerably in the days of Peleg.
Karen Bartlet, a chemist, commented that Hovind's "message appeals to those who are unaware that his 'evidence' is without merit."[45] The scientific community rejects any form of creationism, including young Earth creationism.[46] Furthermore, the plausibility of the Hovind Theory has been criticized by both scientists and other young Earth creationists.[47][48][49]
Hovind's ideas have been published in the controversial Chick Tracts, comic strips intended to convert people to Fundamentalist Christianity.[50]
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__________________
RAWesome
Last edited by cjdelaney; 03-15-2009 at 09:25 AM.
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03-15-2009, 10:50 AM
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#688
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Momofo Alliance
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Connecticut, United States
Age: 31
Posts: 2,293
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The Hovind Creationism sounds something like the Scientology cosmogony, except replace "hydrogen bombs" with "meteoric ice fragments" and delete Xenu from the story (but include a "make the Earth wobble around" to add some special effects). The guy is seriously wacked!
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03-15-2009, 11:23 AM
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#689
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getting fat on purpose
Join Date: May 2007
Stats: 6'0", 999 lbs
Posts: 3,892
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momofo
The Hovind Creationism sounds something like the Scientology cosmogony, except replace "hydrogen bombs" with "meteoric ice fragments" and delete Xenu from the story (but include a "make the Earth wobble around" to add some special effects). The guy is seriously wacked!
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you gotta go to the wiki page and see the picture of the "school" where he got is "Ph.D", it is basically a trailer on a hill in the middle of nowhere.
I would love to hear a more detailed description on how exactly the earth "wobbles around".
__________________
RAWesome
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03-15-2009, 11:37 AM
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#690
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Momofo Alliance
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Connecticut, United States
Age: 31
Posts: 2,293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjdelaney
you gotta go to the wiki page and see the picture of the "school" where he got is "Ph.D", it is basically a trailer on a hill in the middle of nowhere.
I would love to hear a more detailed description on how exactly the earth "wobbles around".
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LOL, he's now in a federal correctional facility for tax counts and structuring cash transactions to hide the books. I thought Christians were supposed to be honest people???
And for $25 a month, you too could obtain a doctorate in just months!
What a sham. And our friend xfrodobagginsx admires this man... Sad, very sad.
Ah, he also is a proponent of the NWO theory, which I have recently encountered in this thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?p=302201431 .
See my parodic exposure of an "Illuminati member" in post # 35 of that thread. Kent Hovind would be proud. 
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