Do Heavy weights really build Muscle mass??

[SLY99]

Ever since i was 35 I was always able to Bench 225 lbs for 10-12 Reps.Im 37 now and I feel like I lost a good 20 ponds off the Bench press in that time.I have been doing 5 sets and resting 6 days to gain strength.I tried working out today and it would have been a struggle for me to do 7 Reps with 225lbs.I don't train nearly as hard as when i was younger,Im 6'1 218lbs and have thought since im older now I need more days rest in between workouts.My Biceps have always been my best body part mainly because I have always had good arms and I trained them very hard with short rest in between sets.When i was much younger I trained some bodyparts 3 times a week with great results.I have not tried this in about 15 years now.Is it possible for a natural lifter to train a muscle 3 times a week and make the best gains??

[SLY99]

When I talk about heavy weights im talking 4 to 5 reps and nothing higher.I don't feel like I have good form with those low reps.

[user178944]

Originally Posted by SLY99

Ever since i was 35 I was always able to Bench 225 lbs for 10-12 Reps.Im 37 now and I feel like I lost a good 20 ponds off the Bench press in that time.I have been doing 5 sets and resting 6 days to gain strength.I tried working out today and it would have been a struggle for me to do 7 Reps with 225lbs.I don't train nearly as hard as when i was younger,Im 6'1 218lbs and have thought since im older now I need more days rest in between workouts.My Biceps have always been my best body part mainly because I have always had good arms and I trained them very hard with short rest in between sets.When i was much younger I trained some bodyparts 3 times a week with great results.I have not tried this in about 15 years now.Is it possible for a natural lifter to train a muscle 3 times a week and make the best gains??

each body part 1 day a week to extreme exhaustion (9-12 sets per bod part) is the best IMO

[chuckiechuck]

Originally Posted by SLY99

When I talk about heavy weights im talking 4 to 5 reps and nothing higher.I don't feel like I have good form with those low reps.

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

use the link above to learn more about the 5x5 program. I used to train each bodypart once a week to exaustion and got ok gains. But I changed my beliefs in weight lifting and since then have noticed drastic positive improvements.

BTW- I am a natural lifter.

[SLY99]

Originally Posted by lancepimpdurmom

each body part 1 day a week to extreme exhaustion (9-12 sets per bod part) is the best IMO

That once a week working a body part just makes me weaker.I have done it and tried it too many times.It only maintains my muscle mass or regresses it.I did have success with strength with 10 days rest but whats so strange about that is no one waits 10 days to work there muscle's in bodybuilding.Im 37 and i still have not learned what my body responds best to.Im at a frustrating point right now.

[SLY99]

Also the reason I don't want to train my muscle's 3 times a week is because of a possible injury which is the worst thing for any lifter to go through.I have a very tender back and Im not sure I can really lift an hour every day without getting a muscle spasm.It seemed when i was working a body part 3 times a week it created a harder muscle.i don't know if thats a positive or negative though.Im also worrying if i start working all my muscle's 3 times a week my strength might go down.

[wh0died]

You're not getting any younger (no offense.) You don't have the luxery that me and lancepimpdurmom have to fail and learn. Your best bet, if you're really serious about this, is to get some online personal training. Check out Iron Addict. I've never been trained (partly because I'm broke and partly because I'd rather fail and learn) but the results of his trainees speak for themselves. http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/ See if he has a spot open for you.

[romeyjdogg]

Go with an upper/lower split routine

1 heavy day and one lighter hypertrophy day for both upper and lower . Start with low volume and as your work output increases, up the volume.

So do something like this:

Day1: Lower(Strength)
Day2: Upper(Hypertrophy)
Day3: Off
Day4: Lower(Hypertrophy)
Day5: Upper(Strength)
Day6&7: Off

[John Prophet]

why do you have to jump from 1x per week to 3x??

arent u skipping a step there?

[SLY99]

Originally Posted by romeyjdogg

Go with an upper/lower split routine

1 heavy day and one lighter hypertrophy day for both upper and lower . Start with low volume and as your work output increases, up the volume.

So do something like this:

Day1: Lower(Strength)
Day2: Upper(Hypertrophy)
Day3: Off
Day4: Lower(Hypertrophy)
Day5: Upper(Strength)
Day6&7: Off

That looks like something I never tried before but I might try it out.One question about that is when working upper body Chest,Shoulders,Back,Arms ,Traps together would be a rough in 1 day.

[John Prophet]

I think when they say "upper/lower" they also include this type of split

legs/back/biceps

chest/delt/triceps


in any case thats how id split it up...id never do legs only and then try to do all the upper bod unless I was only going to do 1 exercise per upperbody part

[SLY99]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

why do you have to jump from 1x per week to 3x??

arent u skipping a step there?

Well when was working my muscle's twice a week for many years I kinda got into stagnation when doing them twice a week.The one thing i never did was do 1 Heavy workout and then the next workout do a Lighter workout.I always stayed with the Heavy workout which may have been a big mistake.This might have been thatsomething that was missing in my sheduled workouts.

[SLY99]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

I think when they say "upper/lower" they also include this type of split

legs/back/biceps

chest/delt/triceps


in any case thats how id split it up...id never do legs only and then try to do all the upper bod unless I was only going to do 1 exercise per upperbody part

Thats exactly the split that I would like to do.Much easier to do.Im totally undecided about the sets though.Usually a higher Volume works for me better.Im going to begin it tomorrow.

[-->aDAM*<--]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

I think when they say "upper/lower" they also include this type of split

legs/back/biceps

chest/delt/triceps


in any case thats how id split it up...id never do legs only and then try to do all the upper bod unless I was only going to do 1 exercise per upperbody part

sounds good to me too but how many sets per bodypart would you have in a split like this?

[John Prophet]

wellll....you have to remember that it is slightly higher frequency than once per week...it is basically once every 5 days per bodypart....so you dont need as much volume on each day

on a "each bp once per week" routine you are getting 4 workouts per bp every 4 weeks.....on this M,W,F 2 way split you are getting 6 workouts per bodypart each 4 weeks.....so if it seems you arent doing as much per bp on each day you have to remember that you are getting more workouts in per month

besides which....that leg/back/bicep day aint no joke, lol....most peeps aint gonna be doing a ton of volume for each of those bodyparts

maybe on a routine like that you have to try to go a little closer to failure because you arent going to be doing a ton of sets per bodypart since you have so much to do on each day


so that routine would be medium-high frequency, medium high intensity, lowish volume


and what you might have to do is on one legs/back/bicep day focus more on legs...on the next leg/back/bi day focus more on back

on one chest/delt/tri day focus more on chest....the next one focus more on delts

[DZL Bodybuilder]

I cant say that I agree with ANY of the above posts. My STRONGEST and BEST recommendation based on both research and experience would be to get on the Doggcrapp program and have either Dante or his partner train you online. It won't be cheap, but then again, the best of things never are cheap. Do this for one year. You'll look better than you ever have and be strong as a bull. Trust me.


DZL

[SLY99]

besides which....that leg/back/bicep day aint no joke, lol....most peeps aint gonna be doing a ton of volume for each of those bodyparts

maybe on a routine like that you have to try to go a little closer to failure because you arent going to be doing a ton of sets per bodypart since you have so much to do on each day


so that routine would be medium-high frequency, medium high intensity, lowish volume


and what you might have to do is on one legs/back/bicep day focus more on legs...on the next leg/back/bi day focus more on back

on one chest/delt/tri day focus more on chest....the next one focus more on delts[/QUOTE]

[SLY99]

Throw in Traps with Legs,Back,Biceps.I am thinking 8 to 12 sets because lower volume just does not work for me.Thats 2 days a week which would be very demanding.The other thing I would workout 2 times a day.I might do Legs and Biceps first then hours later do traps and Back.

[d_k]

I'm running the chest/shoulders/tri's and legs/back/bi routine that j prophet mentioned, check out my journal if ya wanna see some possible setups on how I do it, its been great so far

[romeyjdogg]

Originally Posted by SLY99

That looks like something I never tried before but I might try it out.One question about that is when working upper body Chest,Shoulders,Back,Arms ,Traps together would be a rough in 1 day.

Here's what mine looks like:

Monday: Lower-

Squat, SLDL or RDL, Lunges, hamstring/lower back accessory work

Tuesday: Upper(Push Emphasis)-

Pick an angle of chest press either BB or DB, a row variation, another pressing variation or dips, tricep accessory work

Thursday: Lower

Deadlift variation, goodmornings or SLDL, front squat, quad accesory work

Friday: Upper(Pull emphasis)-

Row variation, push (chest press or overhead press), vertical pull (pull up variation), tricep and bicep accessory work

**This is suited to me, so I would say your accessory work could definitely change. If you really think you aren't getting enough trap work then throw in shrugs on upper day for accessory work. I have also thrown in side laterals sometimes you know? But i feel that the pressing, pulling, squats, and deads are necessary. You can put in whatever necessary accessory work you feel you need.

[SLY99]

I just got done doing 10 sets of Bench presses.I considered it my light day because I started out with 205lbs for 8 reps.The one thing I have recently changed is my grip on the bar.I have widened it about 1 1'2 inces on both sides.The weights feel alot heavier with the wider grip.Im 6'1 and i have heard that for longer limbed going a bit wider would recruit more muscle fibers.Don't know how true that is??That remains to be seen as this is my first workout using a wider grip bench press.i can't do Dumbell presses because swinging them around makes my back feel awkward very weak and susceptible for Injury.The one other thing is I only rested 45 seconds in between sets so on my last set i was benching 95LBS for 7 Reps.I was going to do 12 sets but thought since i was doing 95 Lbs 10 sets was enough.The rest period for in between sets is all over the map in Bodybuilding so I don't even worry about that.My Biceps my best bodypart for years I use to train with 30 seconds of rest or less sometimes and they grew by far bigger then any other muscle's in my body.

[SLY99]

When I say a wider grip Im talking about just outside the smooth surface of the Barbell.Most guys that I see usually grip the bar there.I think for a guy who's longer limbed could go a little wider with better results.I'll know within 2 weeks if Im making better progress or not with the grip.

[John Prophet]

Originally Posted by SLY99

Throw in Traps with Legs,Back,Biceps.I am thinking 8 to 12 sets because lower volume just does not work for me.Thats 2 days a week which would be very demanding.The other thing I would workout 2 times a day.I might do Legs and Biceps first then hours later do traps and Back.

ahh, twice per day

that is what I have been doing for a couple months on that routine (or variations of this)

Mon-AM
squats 3 top sets of around 5 reps (next workout is deads, no squats)
leg ext 2-3 x 8-10
seated leg curl 3 sets

Mon-PM
Tbar rows 3 x 6-10
pulldowns 3 sets
rear delts 3 sets
db curls 3 sets
incline db curls 3 sets

W-am
Bench 3x5ish
flat db (hammer grip) 3x8-10 (working on flat bench right now...so am skipping inc work)
abs 2 sets
military press 3x5ish
lying front laterals 3 sets
cable side laterals 3x10-12

W-PM
seated OH tri presses 3x5-6(or rack lockouts)
lying tri ext 3 sets
pushdows 2-3 sets

etc


thats what Ive been doing for a coupel months.....I just took a week off so I will probably switch things up some

[SLY99]

I agree with working out twicw a day because you lose the intensity if you were to do Shoulders right after doing Chest.

[SLY99]

Only thing Im debating on right now is how long to rest in between sets on the Heavy days.I assume anywhere from 90 seconds to 3 minutes?? Everyone has an differing opinion on rest between sets.

[John Prophet]

well...like everything its a trade off and you need to look at your goals

for strength then obviously you rest longer...for more of pure size stimulation you rest shorter

for me I try to rest 2:00 on power sets for bench, squats, dead....for working up to a max or heavy triples etc it might be more like 2:30-3:00 on squats/deads

for military press for me its usually 2:00

then for some of the other stuff its more lile 90secs (biceps, side laterals etc) etc

for me I have been in more of a "power" or "bulk" mode....just going for more reps or weight each week etc....BUT as spring/summer comes I think I will be shortening up rest intervals some to push harder for more pure mass stimulation


---

one overall thing I notice....you can almost look at guys and guess how they workout....the year round lean guys are going to workout fast....the big bulky guys generally work slow

what I notice is that its a trap to ALWAYS do one or the other....like the guys who just HAVE to be 7% all year long, they workout fast all the time but they never get any bigger....they never sit there and do heavy deads where they take 3-4 minutes between sets

on the other hand the big PLifter type guys always worry about top poundages so they workout really slow year round and they simply never get cut so they never really look that great either

IMo the BEST method is to combine those 2 approaches (and everything in between). One should work in "phases".....winter, eat more, lift heavier/slower, really go for some good strength gains etc

then of course to build pure mass you are going to shorten the rest periods some (training for fatigue as opposed to max muscle tension)

and it doesnt have to be an "all of a sudden" change....you can gradually morph from one type to the next etc

[tyrtl]

I agree with your assesment. Everyone body works differently, so in order to maximize growth we must change it up every now and then.