Building Bone Mass Through Exercise ..?

[DNG]

In a recent conversation (on a forum that has nothing to do with BB), someone was asking about building bone mass through exercise. Here's the question she posed:

I'm interested in the aspect of building bone mass through exercise, mainly in thinking about being an aging adult and trying to offset the inevitable drawbacks that go along with it.

When I started back into visiting the weight room during the orientation, a flyer handout mentions this idea of building bone mass. What do any of you know about this? What do bones tend to do as we get older?

I found an article online about loads but I'd like it presented in laymen's terms, since I've been doing weights 3x a week as a matter of course, I'm wondering if it will help maintain (or even build) bone mass.

Any offerings of opinions welcomed.

I'll be very interested to hear what the O-35 board thinks about this - for both, men and women.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

If through lifting heavy you place strain on a bone it will compensate (just like muscle) and build it's self up. This is actually one of the reason I started lifting again, my Dad basically just started crumbling apart at the end and died from have so many broken bones! Not a pleasant way to go!

It is highly site specific though, so you must work the muscles that interacts with the bone you wish to strentghen.

[Arlecchino]

Originally Posted by Old-Time-Lifter

If through lifting heavy you place strain on a bone it will compensate (just like muscle) and build it's self up. This is actually one of the reason I started lifting again, my Dad basically just started crumbling apart at the end and died from have so many broken bones! Not a pleasant way to go!

It is highly site specific though, so you must work the muscles that interacts with the bone you wish to strentghen.

This. To a degree, the more you strain the entire musculo-skeletal structure, the more it will adapt to compensation. This assumes all factors are, well, if not optimal, at least efficient.

Sufficient stress (heavy, compound exercises are superior to the little pink DB's)
Sufficient kcal intake
Sufficient rest

And no other clinical reason for the body not to adapt, such as wasting illness.

References available upon request.

[Defiant1]

I have a folder on this subject somewhere on my PC lolz that I can't find.


Snippets:

It takes roughly 10% maximal bone stress to elicit a response.

Most of the adaptation, contrary to prior belief, was in bone SIZE not bone density.

Exercises that apply stress through the skeleton (e.g. overhead presses, squats) are best for bone health.

[Arlecchino]

Originally Posted by Defiant1

I have a folder on this subject somewhere on my PC lolz that I can't find.

Find it. Find it now.

[Defiant1]

Originally Posted by Arlecchino

Find it. Find it now.

It's not where it should be, or I am missing it.

There is a TON of info using the search "bone density weight training" on Google scholar.

EG

http://www.jbmronline.org/doi/abs/10....1999.14.1.120

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1642145

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7747001

[Arlecchino]

Originally Posted by Defiant1

It's not where it should be, or I am missing it.

There is a TON of info using the search "bone density weight training" on Google scholar.

I was hoping you would save me the trouble.



I have some stuff I cannot find either.

[Whiskeyjack]

Originally Posted by Old-Time-Lifter

If through lifting heavy you place strain on a bone it will compensate (just like muscle) and build it's self up. This is actually one of the reason I started lifting again, my Dad basically just started crumbling apart at the end and died from have so many broken bones! Not a pleasant way to go!

It is highly site specific though, so you must work the muscles that interacts with the bone you wish to strentghen.

This is true. In my own case, I have an underlying medical condition which requires daily oral meds; the meds result in long term bone density loss. But my endocrinologist has said that the weight training, walking, and high calcium/vitamin D intake that I'm currently engaged in can delay or even halt these effects; ie. my body is building its bones through resistance training. Now, if that's the case with me on the meds, for others the same thing will almost surely result in bone density increases.

[Karl_Hungus]

There are also a few studies looking at bone density in powerlifters, which shows greater intensity produces greater benefits in terms of bone density. The first link is especially interesting because it compares powerlifters, casual weight lifters, and people who don't train.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11685421

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11477028

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9744984

[SuffolkPunch]

Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus

The first link is especially interesting because it compares powerlifters, casual weight lifters, and people who don't train.

Interesting - just as a previous poster said

"It takes roughly 10% maximal bone stress to elicit a response."

Is that 10% of breaking stress??

Stands to reason you would have to be a serious lifter

[sytennison]

My mother has osteoperosis. Her doctor prescribed, among other things, weight lifting to help her out. Unfortunately, she's also on some athsma meds that reduce her bone density. The last I heard, she was breaking even.

[Whiskeyjack]

Originally Posted by sytennison

My mother has osteoperosis. Her doctor prescribed, among other things, weight lifting to help her out. Unfortunately, she's also on some athsma meds that reduce her bone density. The last I heard, she was breaking even.

Probably prednizone - that's what I'm on and used for asthma. Only I'm on a fraction of what most asthma suffers take. The prednizone eventually contributes to bone density loss, but weightlifting can halt the process, depending on the amount of weightlifting done and time and dosage of prednizone.

[Arlecchino]

Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack

Probably prednizone - that's what I'm on and used for asthma. Only I'm on a fraction of what most asthma suffers take. The prednizone eventually contributes to bone density loss, but weightlifting can halt the process, depending on the amount of weightlifting done and time and dosage of prednizone.

Yeah. I understand that it is medically necessary, but from a certain point of view, that stuff is heinous. And I mean that in the totally Bill and Ted sort heinous.

[ironwill2008]

Good info in this thread; thanks to all of you.

[sytennison]

Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack

Probably prednizone

Yep, that's the stuff. My mom was very dissapointed (pissed off?) when the doctor told her that her athsma medication was the reason why her long hours in the gym hadn't made her bones any denser. Apparently, the doc failed to mention the bone-loss side effect of prednizone when he first prescribed it.

[Seawren]

Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus

These results suggest that high-intensity resistance training is effective for increasing BMD, but low-intensity resistance training is not.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11685421

I'd lke to know what they consider "high-intensity" vs. "low-intensity"?

[Whiskeyjack]

Originally Posted by sytennison

Yep, that's the stuff. My mom was very dissapointed (pissed off?) when the doctor told her that her athsma medication was the reason why her long hours in the gym hadn't made her bones any denser. Apparently, the doc failed to mention the bone-loss side effect of prednizone when he first prescribed it.

It depends on the amount. Bodyrokk (here on BB.com) takes 60mg daily, I think, for his severe asthma; my mother-in-law similarly and maybe your Mom, Sy. That's an enormous amount.

But I'm on only 5mg/day - the very minimum you can be on and about the same amount you guys with healthy adrenals produce naturally. The bone density loss is very small at that dosage - may be more severe at 60 - so it's mainly a question of the frequency and intensity of exercise over time to conteract the smallish bone density issues, also over time; my last bone scan indicated no BD loss in the 2 years since the previous - all due the weightlifting, according to the endo.

On a side note, I saw my endo for the annual a week ago: she made some very positive comments about my physique and noted general improvements all around.

[Whiskeyjack]

Originally Posted by Seawren

I'd lke to know what they consider "high-intensity" vs. "low-intensity"?

Seawren - I don't know how Karl defines it but I can say that my endo considers walking often sufficient for bone density increases or offsets; weightlifting makes it better.

[Arlecchino]

Originally Posted by Seawren

I'd lke to know what they consider "high-intensity" vs. "low-intensity"?

As per the study:

High intensity: 80-90% 1RM, five sets, 4-8 reps.

Low intensity: 30RM

[sytennison]

As far as I know, my mom's bone doctor didn't recommend any particular type of weight lifting. The personal trainer at her gym set her up with a full-body machine circuit where she does 3 sets of 12 reps on each machine. One day, she told me that she was doing 1 set of 36 instead to save time. I told her it was probably time to increase the weight.

[DNG]

Some good feedback here - many thanks!

[Seawren]

Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack

Seawren - I don't know how Karl defines it but I can say that my endo considers walking often sufficient for bone density increases or offsets; weightlifting makes it better.

Good to know! Thanks!

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by Arlecchino

This. To a degree, the more you strain the entire musculo-skeletal structure, the more it will adapt to compensation. This assumes all factors are, well, if not optimal, at least efficient.

Sufficient stress (heavy, compound exercises are superior to the little pink DB's)
Sufficient kcal intake
Sufficient rest

And no other clinical reason for the body not to adapt, such as wasting illness.

References available upon request.

X2 nothing else to add......... this is science and it is well proven..
weight needs to be heavy enough to cause adaptation or it's ****ing useless

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by sytennison

As far as I know, my mom's bone doctor didn't recommend any particular type of weight lifting. The personal trainer at her gym set her up with a full-body machine circuit where she does 3 sets of 12 reps on each machine. One day, she told me that she was doing 1 set of 36 instead to save time. I told her it was probably time to increase the weight.

LOL.... that's priceless :-) my mom's doctor recommended swimming
she prefers it to weight lifting as she is afraid of getting big and muscular ..
my Mom is 70 years old :-)

[sytennison]

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

LOL.... that's priceless :-) my mom's doctor recommended swimming
she prefers it to weight lifting as she is afraid of getting big and muscular ..
my Mom is 70 years old :-)

She's as likely to grow gills from the swimming.

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by sytennison

She's as likely to grow gills from the swimming.

LOL
probably easier than getting bigger from weight lifting :-)

[halogenic]

I guess thinking about how astronauts have trouble with bone density if they spend too much time in a weightless environment, you'd have to think that spending time in a heavily weighted environment would add to bone density.

Anyone know how many kilos of bone, you'd have in the average human body?

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by sytennison

My mother has osteoperosis. Her doctor prescribed, among other things, weight lifting to help her out. Unfortunately, she's also on some athsma meds that reduce her bone density. The last I heard, she was breaking even.

I was diagnosed with osteoprosis at the age of 40. Weight training ( plus medication and vitamin d) have made this disease manageable for me.

My periodical Dexa scans in recent years showed that my bone density was no longer rapidly deteriorating and was stabilising.

I had my last Dexa scan at hospital last month: the result is that my bone density measurement for my age group no longer puts me in the osteoporosis category: I officially no longer have osteoporosis!

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by halogenic

I guess thinking about how astronauts have trouble with bone density if they spend too much time in a weightless environment, you'd have to think that spending time in a heavily weighted environment would add to bone density.

Anyone know how many kilos of bone, you'd have in the average human body?

I was on a new bodyfat meter last week at the gym and was shocked to see that my bone mass was just 2.1 kilos (body fat 18.7 kilos, muscle 38.kilos). I thought bones would weigh much more.

Edit: I just found this:
" How much do all the bones in the body weigh?
Total bone weight depends on how much the person's entire body weighs. Bones make up about 15% of a person's total body weight. For example, the bones of a person weighing 100 pounds would weigh about 15 pounds. "

So how the hell can I have a bone weight of 2.1 kilos?

[Luke Whippo]

Originally Posted by sytennison

when the doctor told her that her athsma medication was the reason why her long hours in the gym hadn't made her bones any denser. Apparently, the doc failed to mention the bone-loss side effect of prednizone when he first prescribed it.

long hours in the gym? funny I find the best training for bone density to be the shortest and heaviest training, (lowest ROM also).