Prohormone Review Thread

[Adrenolin]

Originally Posted by Logtrog

so just do epistane for one month with nothing after it? what is " doing it right" ? i need to know since i'm starting monday :X

Go do your FU.CKING research and you'll know. You're to young for this ****, and don't even have a clue. Hold off until you actually do know a few things.

[gtnfit15]

Adrenolin, appreciate all the great info on this thread. I've done my research and have decided to start my first PH cycle in early March. Here is what I have planned. What do you think of the EPI/Bold stack? From what I have read in this thread this should be a good start for a 1st timer. What are you thoughts on my PCT? Do you think Inhibit-E is sufficient?

Epistane EQ-JET Cycle Assist
(Bold 200)
ON Cycle
Week 1 30 8 caps
Week 2 30 200 8 caps
Week 3 40 400 8 caps
Week 4 50 400 8 caps
Week 5 50 400 8 caps
Week 6 40 400 8 caps
PCT Inhibit-E 11 Test
Week 7 75 300
Week 8 75 200
Week 9 50 200
Week 10+ 50 100
25 100

[Pizman22]

Originally Posted by gtnfit15

Adrenolin, appreciate all the great info on this thread. I've done my research and have decided to start my first PH cycle in early March. Here is what I have planned. What do you think of the EPI/Bold stack? From what I have read in this thread this should be a good start for a 1st timer. What are you thoughts on my PCT? Do you think Inhibit-E is sufficient?

I don't think you've done your research if all you have for your PCT is Inhibit E...keep doing more research bro!

[FromPainToGlory]

Originally Posted by gtnfit15

Adrenolin, appreciate all the great info on this thread. I've done my research and have decided to start my first PH cycle in early March. Here is what I have planned. What do you think of the EPI/Bold stack? From what I have read in this thread this should be a good start for a 1st timer. What are you thoughts on my PCT? Do you think Inhibit-E is sufficient?

Epistane EQ-JET Cycle Assist
(Bold 200)
ON Cycle
Week 1 30 8 caps
Week 2 30 200 8 caps
Week 3 40 400 8 caps
Week 4 50 400 8 caps
Week 5 50 400 8 caps
Week 6 40 400 8 caps
PCT Inhibit-E 11 Test
Week 7 75 300
Week 8 75 200
Week 9 50 200
Week 10+ 50 100
25 100

First off, if this is your first PH cycle then you shouldn't be thinking of stacking anything, should do them stand alone. With that being said, if your still planning on doing bold and havoc you can get away with an OTC PCT. I know you can because ive done it before. However, inhibit-e and 11 test by itself isn't good enough. You should at the minimum continue to take your cycle support + AI + natty test booster + pct assist.

[jack90]

thinking of doing a bold/hdrol cycle.

would this be a good set up

set up like this

Weeks 1-6: Bold @ 800mg/day, Hdrol @ 75mg/day
Weeks 6-8: Bold @ 800mg/day
Weeks 9-12: Reversitol

I got a couple bottles of cycle support.

2 questions

1. what else should i add for pct?

2. i read somewhere that i might need to use a testbooster ON CYCLE for this. True?

[steeladdict]

I am still debating to go with Dyme or Tren/Phera stack. Do you guys think I will be able to gain 10-15 pounds with Dyme or should I go with Tren/Phera stack. Please help me out here so that I can place my order on Monday.

[cbad7676]

Originally Posted by gtnfit15

Adrenolin, appreciate all the great info on this thread. I've done my research and have decided to start my first PH cycle in early March. Here is what I have planned. What do you think of the EPI/Bold stack? From what I have read in this thread this should be a good start for a 1st timer. What are you thoughts on my PCT? Do you think Inhibit-E is sufficient?

Epistane EQ-JET Cycle Assist
(Bold 200)
ON Cycle
Week 1 30 8 caps
Week 2 30 200 8 caps
Week 3 40 400 8 caps
Week 4 50 400 8 caps
Week 5 50 400 8 caps
Week 6 40 400 8 caps
PCT Inhibit-E 11 Test
Week 7 75 300
Week 8 75 200
Week 9 50 200
Week 10+ 50 100
25 100

keep on researching bro. a PH in your pct isnt very bright. you can bridge but i wouldnt do it for my very first cycle.

[bigbuff420]

Bridging with orals is absolutely retarded. Most people who bridge stay on year round.

[malizmizer]

I'm planning on starting on havoc 30mg for 4 weeks. I have done my research and during cycle will use cycle support. For pct I have a question of all the test boosters I have to choose between I force reversitol or novedex xt and should I add 6 oxo if using any of these?

[Acal83]

Originally Posted by malizmizer

I'm planning on starting on havoc 30mg for 4 weeks. I have done my research and during cycle will use cycle support. For pct I have a question of all the test boosters I have to choose between I force reversitol or novedex xt and should I add 6 oxo if using any of these?

I dont believe Novedex XT is usually recommended for PCT.

[jkookie]

I recently purchased a bottle of hemobolin250 before actually researching like i should have like a dummy.. well i got this stuff and havent takin it yet and am going to take it because i payed for it, however i want to get a good pct lined up first and am having trouble.. i have a bottle of novadex xt and milk thistle but i have been unable to find what else would be appropriate to add, by the way this is my first cycle so constructive critisism is appropriate.. thanx

[buffdaddy91369]

Originally Posted by jkookie

I recently purchased a bottle of hemobolin250 before actually researching like i should have like a dummy.. well i got this stuff and havent takin it yet and am going to take it because i payed for it, however i want to get a good pct lined up first and am having trouble.. i have a bottle of novadex xt and milk thistle but i have been unable to find what else would be appropriate to add, by the way this is my first cycle so constructive critisism is appropriate.. thanx

i ran the sister product hemogen b52. contained 26mg H-drol (underdosed for me) and 26mg S-drol (good dose). what you have sir is essentially the same product plus it contains epistane & then some trib for supposed endogenous test support. the prob with hemobolin 250 is that even one of the reps did not know the mg per ingredient content. so there for you have the main prob with blends... what's the mg per ingredient/component? is the it under or over dosed per component/ingredient? is one too high to go up to compensate for the underdosed PH in the bunch?

[Adrenolin]

Originally Posted by gtnfit15

Adrenolin, appreciate all the great info on this thread. I've done my research and have decided to start my first PH cycle in early March. Here is what I have planned. What do you think of the EPI/Bold stack? From what I have read in this thread this should be a good start for a 1st timer. What are you thoughts on my PCT? Do you think Inhibit-E is sufficient?

Epistane EQ-JET Cycle Assist
(Bold 200)
ON Cycle
Week 1 30 8 caps
Week 2 30 200 8 caps
Week 3 40 400 8 caps
Week 4 50 400 8 caps
Week 5 50 400 8 caps
Week 6 40 400 8 caps
PCT Inhibit-E 11 Test
Week 7 75 300
Week 8 75 200
Week 9 50 200
Week 10+ 50 100
25 100

If you'd done your research, you'd know that you should never stack compounds unless you ran ea stand alone before hand... (I need to put this in my sig or something)

[Adrenolin]

Wrong way to handle things bro...PM stands for PRIVATE Message, it shouldn't be posted on an open forum.

I turned 19 when I did my first cycle, I knew what I was getting into, I actually had a clue.... I had miles upon miles of knowledge more than you do in your current state, many of you are just trying to jump into this **** too quick. You need to actually do some IN DEPTH research, before coming here and asking all the questions that should have been a part of your RESEARCH. So yeah, I'm pretty much saying Fu.CK You. I'm not helping you. Go do your research.

[cbad7676]

Originally Posted by ADREN0LIN

Wrong way to handle things bro...PM stands for PRIVATE Message, it shouldn't be posted on an open forum.

You need to actually do some IN DEPTH research, before coming here and asking all the questions that should have been a part of your RESEARCH. So yeah, I'm pretty much saying Fu.CK You. I'm not helping you. Go do your research.

what he said. if you have to ask these questions youre obviously not ready. go read trust me i spent over a year reading/researching before i did my first cycle and im pretty sure adrenolin did same or even more. and your pretty much calling him out when he did offer sound advice which isnt chill.

[FromPainToGlory]

Originally Posted by ADREN0LIN

Wrong way to handle things bro...PM stands for PRIVATE Message, it shouldn't be posted on an open forum.

I turned 19 when I did my first cycle, I knew what I was getting into, I actually had a clue.... I had miles upon miles of knowledge more than you do in your current state, many of you are just trying to jump into this **** too quick. You need to actually do some IN DEPTH research, before coming here and asking all the questions that should have been a part of your RESEARCH. So yeah, I'm pretty much saying Fu.CK You. I'm not helping you. Go do your research.

Originally Posted by cbad7676

what he said. if you have to ask these questions youre obviously not ready. go read trust me i spent over a year reading/researching before i did my first cycle and im pretty sure adrenolin did same or even more. and your pretty much calling him out when he did offer sound advice which isnt chill.

x2 on both of these.

I think the problem is that most of us on the forum know that Adren0lin was younger than 21 when he did his first ph stack. HOWEVER, we ALL know that prior to doing that he did his research and by doing his research I mean he probably could have gotten college credits for the amount of time he spent on it. So in doing so he knew exactly what he was getting in to, how to do it to maximize results with minimizing sides, how to do it safely, and what the risks were. This was all known because of research, not asking a few questions on a forum.

[charms]

I was wondering about that warning that prohormones recently started having about birth defects. Anyone know what could happen or how likely they are? Is it worse than breathing the air in Salt Lake right now? ha ha

[zach_bashore]

Yea i heard it helps. read supplements for rookies www.mightybody.com/s4r it has everything... later

[bdr8552]

got all my PCT ordered

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've ordered the reversitol and N1-T Universal and a bottle of novadex just because. Should I just follow the dosing instructions on the bottle or do you recamend something different ? If I get side affects and need to start my PCT before the end of my 30 day cycle of PH do I need to also stop the PH cycle or can I finish it? (I know it's probably a dumb question but I figured it was best to double check anyways) Also is Novadex XT by Gasparri O.K. THANK YOU Very Much
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADREN0LIN
Patience is a Virtue.
I can assure you that if you run this cycle longer than 4wks, you will be shutdown. The best OTC PCT products will only be found online...you NEED either Reversitol or PCT Assist, and a Tbooster. As soon as you notice any loss of libido or anything thats when you need to jump on the tboosters.


give it a shot and let us know, the best tbooster I ever used was from that site.

[DoubleFistingDBs]

A lot of people bring up SERMS, but the discrepancy with them is that since they only bind to the estrogen receptors, they don't prevent aromatasation from happening, and once you stop the serm, the aromatized hormones can attack the receptor potentially causing "rebound gyno" so I would recommend an AI over a SERM for your pct, and even using it on cycle with higher dosages of progestin based ph's like Trens, and 13-ethyl-methoxy-gona.

[Adrenolin]

True, but script AI's are quite a bit more expensive...and typically if you aren't doing some crazy cycle with high doses and extended length, than a serm should work just fine.

[WhirlyBird]

Man who done gone off and pissed my buddy ADREN0LIN off? I'd get you a drink but damn internet hasn't delevoped enough yet to do so.

That is one person you do not want on your bad side beings he is a beaming beakon of knowledge and is willing to help out if you already know what you are getting into. Hell I got 2 or 3 future cycles lined up for over a year thanks to him.

[FromPainToGlory]

Originally Posted by ADREN0LIN

True, but script AI's are quite a bit more expensive...and typically if you aren't doing some crazy cycle with high doses and extended length, than a serm should work just fine.

what are some examples of script AI's?

Is this the difference between Clomid and Nolva? (AI vs. SERM)

[Adrenolin]

Example: AI vs SERM; Anastrozole vs Tamoxifen

[impulse3k]

Novedex XT and others like it should not be counted out for PCT, as they actually are very much geared toward this goal (repost from another board):

"ATD (3,17-dioxo-etiochol-1,4,6-triene) is a recent introduction to estrogen control. It is thought to stop estrogen production in a manner similar to steroidal AI?s such as exemestane. Brand name ATD?s are Rebound XT, Rebound Reloaded, Novedex XT, Ultra H.O.T and Ultra H.O.T.ter.

ATD is technically an aromatase inhibitor, but with some interesting properties that make it a very useful addition to our estrogen control arsenals.

There are two negative feedback loops that we try to correct through post cycle therapy. The first is elevated estrogen levels from aromatase activity act on the hypothalamus to decrease GnRH production. The second is that elevated androgen levels stimulate androgen receptors in the hypothalamus causing decreased GnRH production. Decreased GnRH leads to reduced LH and FSH production, both of which are directly involved in testosterone production.

Typical PCT with SERM?s and AI?s address the estrogen component of this negative feedback, but do nothing for androgenic stimulation of the hypothalamus. ATD addresses the androgenic feedback loop. ATD has 90% androgenic activity in muscle tissue but only 10% androgenic activity in the hypothalamus.

ATD works for androgen activity the same way that tamoxifen works for estrogen. Tamoxifen blocks estrogen in breast tissue, but has positive effects in other tissue such as liver and bone. ATD blocks androgens in the hypothalamus, but allows it to be active in other tissue.

Because of this dual action estrogen levels are lowered while testosterone levels begin to rise. This is because ATD tricks your hypothalamus into thinking testosterone levels are low so it produces more. ATD provides benefits far beyond simply controlling estrogen in your body. Through its control over the androgen negative feedback loop testosterone production is restarted much faster. And the faster you recover your natural testosterone production the easier it is to keep muscular gains.

In addition to ATD?s benefits for post cycle therapy studies have shown that employing ATD during AAS use maintains significant HPTA function. This means reduced testicular atrophy and faster post-cycle recovery. This is something that you simply can?t get from estrogen control alone.

ATD can also be used by the natural athlete to increase testosterone production. In studies increases of up to 400% in testosterone have been seen. This is equivalent to injecting 400-600mg per week of testosterone enanthate or cypionate. This means continued growth for the natural athlete without the problems and side effects usually associated with injecting testosterone.

While there should technically not be any difference between the ATD ptoducts I have personally seen the best results using Rebound XT by Designer Supplements. I believe it is also the most cost effective of the ATD products out there. Your mileage may vary.

I?ve found the following discussion on running SERM?s inverse to ATD?s which is both informative and by all accounts very effective. It has been posted on many forums and the credit for it goes to Dr. D. Thank you Dr. D!

?Discussion on running SERM inverse to ATD
Estrogen only ?rebounds? based on the mechanism of suppression. SERM, for example, only masks estrogen expression by occupying receptors but estrogen production is left unchecked and actually increases as testosterone levels increase. AI?s like letro inhibit inducible enzymes and just like a leaky faucet, they body will eventually try to balance the equation with increased aromatase activity. Steroidal AI?s like Teslac, Exemestane, and ReboundXT will not result in ?rebound? phenomena because the inhibition is non-competitive and irreversible. They act as false substrates, so aromatase is still happy to act on them (instead of androstenedione) and the body keeps no record of an imbalance. There is no leaky faucet. In fact, after prolonged use, steroidal AI?s often produce a protracted anti-e benefit even after being discontinued. This is why I suggest an inverse taper with SERM and RXT for PCT with an abrupt stoppage of RXT at the end. As the SERM elevates androgen/estrogen production, the AI dose is increased to compensate while the SERM is phased out. It works quite well to use this approach and rebound is not encountered. Adding LX and/or DHEA also really makes for a killer PCT in this scheme."

[jkookie]

Im looking for the guys who know a lil to comment on this..
Ive just started a cycle and am interested if any changes should be made.. here it goes:

creatine, multy vit., super b-complex and protien shakes will be taken before, during and after cycle..

hemobolin250 1 tab daily for 30 days
novadex xt 2 caps nightly for 30 days
17 hd 1 prior to every work out for 30 days

clomid 300mg day1...100mg day2-11...50mg day 12-21
novadex xt 2caps day 1-7...3caps day 8-14...4caps day 15-30

now if any one has any experience with these or similars... shoot me some advise...

[buffdaddy91369]

Originally Posted by jkookie

Im looking for the guys who know a lil to comment on this..
Ive just started a cycle and am interested if any changes should be made.. here it goes:

creatine, multy vit., super b-complex and protien shakes will be taken before, during and after cycle..

hemobolin250 1 tab daily for 30 days
novadex xt 2 caps nightly for 30 days
17 hd 1 prior to every work out for 30 days

clomid 300mg day1...100mg day2-11...50mg day 12-21
novadex xt 2caps day 1-7...3caps day 8-14...4caps day 15-30

now if any one has any experience with these or similars... shoot me some advise...

Run your Clomid 50mg through day 28 PCT.

Novadex XT inversely as you have it looks good.

Hemobolin250 is H-drol, S-drol, Epi + Trib. I have a bottle. I ran HemogenB52 it was H-drol/S-drol at 26mg each PH compound. What is the mg per compound with thie Hemobolin250? Not even a Pharma Resources rep knew the mg per component. AND I'LL SELL MY HEMOBOLIN250 AS WELL?

[FromPainToGlory]

Originally Posted by impulse3k

Novedex XT and others like it should not be counted out for PCT, as they actually are very much geared toward this goal (repost from another board):

"ATD (3,17-dioxo-etiochol-1,4,6-triene) is a recent introduction to estrogen control. It is thought to stop estrogen production in a manner similar to steroidal AI?s such as exemestane. Brand name ATD?s are Rebound XT, Rebound Reloaded, Novedex XT, Ultra H.O.T and Ultra H.O.T.ter.

ATD is technically an aromatase inhibitor, but with some interesting properties that make it a very useful addition to our estrogen control arsenals.

There are two negative feedback loops that we try to correct through post cycle therapy. The first is elevated estrogen levels from aromatase activity act on the hypothalamus to decrease GnRH production. The second is that elevated androgen levels stimulate androgen receptors in the hypothalamus causing decreased GnRH production. Decreased GnRH leads to reduced LH and FSH production, both of which are directly involved in testosterone production.

Typical PCT with SERM?s and AI?s address the estrogen component of this negative feedback, but do nothing for androgenic stimulation of the hypothalamus. ATD addresses the androgenic feedback loop. ATD has 90% androgenic activity in muscle tissue but only 10% androgenic activity in the hypothalamus.

ATD works for androgen activity the same way that tamoxifen works for estrogen. Tamoxifen blocks estrogen in breast tissue, but has positive effects in other tissue such as liver and bone. ATD blocks androgens in the hypothalamus, but allows it to be active in other tissue.

Because of this dual action estrogen levels are lowered while testosterone levels begin to rise. This is because ATD tricks your hypothalamus into thinking testosterone levels are low so it produces more. ATD provides benefits far beyond simply controlling estrogen in your body. Through its control over the androgen negative feedback loop testosterone production is restarted much faster. And the faster you recover your natural testosterone production the easier it is to keep muscular gains.

In addition to ATD?s benefits for post cycle therapy studies have shown that employing ATD during AAS use maintains significant HPTA function. This means reduced testicular atrophy and faster post-cycle recovery. This is something that you simply can?t get from estrogen control alone.

ATD can also be used by the natural athlete to increase testosterone production. In studies increases of up to 400% in testosterone have been seen. This is equivalent to injecting 400-600mg per week of testosterone enanthate or cypionate. This means continued growth for the natural athlete without the problems and side effects usually associated with injecting testosterone.

While there should technically not be any difference between the ATD ptoducts I have personally seen the best results using Rebound XT by Designer Supplements. I believe it is also the most cost effective of the ATD products out there. Your mileage may vary.

I?ve found the following discussion on running SERM?s inverse to ATD?s which is both informative and by all accounts very effective. It has been posted on many forums and the credit for it goes to Dr. D. Thank you Dr. D!

?Discussion on running SERM inverse to ATD
Estrogen only ?rebounds? based on the mechanism of suppression. SERM, for example, only masks estrogen expression by occupying receptors but estrogen production is left unchecked and actually increases as testosterone levels increase. AI?s like letro inhibit inducible enzymes and just like a leaky faucet, they body will eventually try to balance the equation with increased aromatase activity. Steroidal AI?s like Teslac, Exemestane, and ReboundXT will not result in ?rebound? phenomena because the inhibition is non-competitive and irreversible. They act as false substrates, so aromatase is still happy to act on them (instead of androstenedione) and the body keeps no record of an imbalance. There is no leaky faucet. In fact, after prolonged use, steroidal AI?s often produce a protracted anti-e benefit even after being discontinued. This is why I suggest an inverse taper with SERM and RXT for PCT with an abrupt stoppage of RXT at the end. As the SERM elevates androgen/estrogen production, the AI dose is increased to compensate while the SERM is phased out. It works quite well to use this approach and rebound is not encountered. Adding LX and/or DHEA also really makes for a killer PCT in this scheme."

From what I see Novedex XT does not contain that compound...

[konaboy96704]

i got 2 bottles of bold 200, alot of threads recommend 600mg/day and i wanted to do atleast a 6 week cycle but 2 bottles wouldnt be enough.... (no cash to buy one more)would dosing the first week or maybe the first two weeks at 400mg/day be enough to have results or would it be a waste?
week 1 400mg/day
week 2-6 600mg/day
or
week1-2 400mg/day
week2-5 600mg/day
week6 800mg/day

[Adrenolin]

Alpha ♂
Axholites.com
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Hey, if you don't mind, could you post that I referred you in this thread. Thanks, I appreciate it. Feel free to refer people as well, free supplements are on the line.

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