41 and not gaining muscle

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by ccvortex

started out doing your basic 3x10 at 80% max weights while in caloric deficit so I could lose weight w/o losing muscle.

You answer yourself.. you can't build muscle with caloric deficit.

As a novice you should be able to progress and add weight to your lifts rather quickly, that isn't going to happen if you don't feed the muscles..period

no fuel no gains, that also explain the 100lb squat after 2 months
"Starting strength" as already suggested
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi..._Strength_Wiki

might be what you need to kick start your sleeping muscles

[Reality_Check]

Personally I rarely ever go above 10 reps (on any exercise - except legs) and usually stick to the 5-8 rep range for everything.

10 reps corresponds to 75% of one rep max according to your typical 1 RM calculators such as http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/1rm.htm (might be slightly different for different individuals).

The thing is you need closer to 90% of 1RM to substantially increase strength. Certainly over 80%. But 12 reps is under 75% of 1RM and thus is not a strength building range. So as you are doing 12 reps for everything I would not expect you to experience any strength increase (because you are doing under 75% of 1RM).


(3-5 reps is best muscular strength building range. 8 - 12 for mass. 6 - 8 reps in my opinion is best compromise between strength and mass building (and in the long run you need to build strength for high rep mass building sets to work. i.e. if strength doesn't increase neither will the weight you can do 12 reps with and hence neither will your mass increase past a point. Thus just doing 12 reps all the time you will top out and no longer improve in mass either)).


My strategy would be to increase strength with 5 -6 rep range then after a noticeable strength increase has been achieved (say add 20 lb to bench or something) then do the higher rep sets with the higher weight to build more mass. Then repeat cycle.

At any rate I would be trying to use a mixture of both low rep and high rep work. Do some military press (or bench or whatever) at 5 - 6 reps then do other military press sets (or bench or whatever) at 10-12 reps (either in same workout or alternative workouts).

In my own case the typical strategy I used is - for whatever weight I can lift 5 reps with I don't increase the weight but increase the reps each week (when I can) until I am eventually doing 8 reps with that weight. Once I hit 8 reps I then add weight till I can only do 5 reps, then repeat cycle.

(I went from benching under 95 lb to 385 lb using that approach myself - over about 10 years).

If you have already got some pretty serious strength going on then working out in the 12 rep range will add some serious mass to that strength. If not you are best to build the strength base first in my opinion.

For example the guy who can do 5 reps with 250 bench will put on serious mass if he increases that to doing 12 reps of 250 - on the other hand the guy who can do 12 reps with 100 lb bench will maybe grow a bit but then if he doesn't try a heavier weight and hence use lower reps he won't get stronger or bigger - to be bigger he needs to be doing 12 reps with something heavier than his current weight- you need to increase either your weight lifted or repetitions with a given weight to grow. Sorry not explaining this well.

What I'm saying is once you are doing 12 reps with a weight you need to increase performance - either reps or weight to grow, but 12 reps won't grow you in strength. And at 12 reps you won't add much in reps either, like say 15 reps - unless you're doing a weight so light its cardio (once you're doing much above 12 reps your moving from anaerobic to aerobic territory, which is not where the mass gain is to be found - think of moving from sprinter to long distance runner physique). So while 12 reps with a given weight is somewhere to aim to get to, once your are actually there its best to move on to a higher weight and consequently lower reps (which you might then increase to 12 again). Hmmm still not explaining this as well as I'd like.

Oh and by the way I would eat more too. You are either losing fat or gaining muscle mass and strength - its tough to do both together especialy for a newbie and a 41 Y/O one at that (maybe some expert out there can do it - but for most of us mere mortals you have to pick one or the other).

[boathead]

while some might tweak an exercise here or there, or a rep scheme, nonetheless it is a routine that should be showing some results.

the answer has to be in nutrition. for a quick experiment, i'd throw in a post-workout shake. that would be extra calories, and carbs and protein when needed most.

[Reality_Check]

I wouldn't disagree with that.

[karl451]

i'm no expert but i would say 5 days training is fine for some, But it might not be for you, Have you thoght about 3 day's a week! i droped to 3 days a week and found better gains at 35.


mon-back,biceps
3x8 reps
tue-chest-triceps
3x8 reps
wed-legs-shoulders (SQUATS)


cardio at weekend if needed.

[jellodirt]

Originally Posted by ccvortex

Greets people, first post here.

I am 41 and have led a sedentary lifestyle (computer programmer) until about a year ago. I quit smoking after 25 years of that crap and started working out.
I was doing mostly cardio up until four or five months ago when I decided I wanted to get bigger muscles then what I am sporting now and lose the gut I developed after I quit smoking (gained 20 lbs).

I started out doing your basic 3x10 at 80% max weights while in caloric deficit so I could lose weight w/o losing muscle. That was all well and good and worked for the most part until, again, I decided I wanted to start getting bigger muscles. That was two months ago and I haven't gained a millimeter since then. Not only have I not gained in mass, I swear I have not gained in strength either!

Right now my caloric intake is roughly 2800 - 3200 a day at a regular BMR of 2550. My diet is 85+% 'clean', I don't smoke, rarely drink, and never do any drugs.

Here is a pic of the routine I am currently doing (all exercises are done to muscle failure):



Do you guys see anything in there that I should change? I am perplexed at the lack of response my body is exhibiting and am starting to think there may be something medically wrong here...

Thanks guys and gals.

I think you're overtraining. I would cut back to two (3 if you absolutely have to) days a week. I would concentrate on the big multi-joint movements i.e. deadlifts, squats, bench press, military press, bent over row, etc...You will make gains unless you're doing too much. Try a starting with a set of 20 rep deadlifts, you won't feel like overtraining after that...Good luck...

Check out
http://www.hardgainer.com/

[sactown]

It drives me crazy to see stuff like 5x5, or 3x12. I honestly don't lift that way, because I might miss out on makin gains.

Go ahead and do your 1st set with the same weight u normally use, but do as many reps as possible....go to failure.

Then, gradually go up in weight until you can only do 1 rep. Don't do this every week, but you need to lift heavier weights to get bigger muscles. If you're not stressing the muscle enough, you'll stay stagnant. Push yourself to make strength gains every month. You need to find out what you are capable of. If you need to, rest a little longer between sets.

Sometimes, I end up doing 8 sets of flat bench because what I used to do for 3 reps, I can now do for 5.

Keep your cardio! Cardiovascular health will help make you stronger and your muscles will look better.

Time to roll up your sleeves

[jellodirt]

Originally Posted by sactown

It drives me crazy to see stuff like 5x5, or 3x12. I honestly don't lift that way, because I might miss out on makin gains.

Keep your cardio! Cardiovascular health will help make you stronger and your muscles will look better.

Time to roll up your sleeves

I agree, I could never do the same amount of reps on my second let alone my third set. I try to go 1x8 1x6 1x4. When I can hit 8 reps on my first set I add weight the next time. I also agree that I need to stay flexible with workout structure.

[ccvortex]

Wow, some awesome advice. I really appreciate it fellas.

I think I am over doing it, and am going to switch to a much simpler three day lifting, one cardio day week . I'll concentrate on squats, deads, bench and military press. Something like this:

Mon:
3 x 12, 12, 12 squats
3 x 8, 6, 4 bench press
3 x 8, 6, 4 incline press
3 x 8, 6, 4 one arm extensions

Wed:
3 x 12, 12, 12 stiff leg deads
3 x 8, 6, 4 arnold press
3 x 8, 6, 4 upright rows
3 x 8, 6, 4 one arm rows

Fri:
3 x 12, 12, 12 deads
3 x 8, 6, 4 bench press
3 x 8, 6, 4 pullovers
3 x 12, 12, 12 lunges
3 x 8, 6, 4 alternate curls

Sun:
45 minutes treadmill

I'm going to up my cal's from my current 3000 to 3600.
Again, thanks for all the input.

[jellodirt]

Originally Posted by ccvortex

Wow, some awesome advice. I really appreciate it fellas.

I think I am over doing it, and am going to switch to a much simpler three day lifting, one cardio day week . I'll concentrate on squats, deads, bench and military press. Something like this:


I'm going to up my cal's from my current 3000 to 3600.
Again, thanks for all the input.

The biggest and strongest I ever became was when I was doing a 20 rep deadlift once a week. By far the hardest and most productive workout I've ever experience. Mentally it destroyed me physically it's very difficult. If you never do it at least google "20 rep" or something of the sort and research it a little. For me one 20 rep deadlift day is a whole body ass kicker, you could do more if you wanted to but you probably won't. Good luck...

[thomasale]

Originally Posted by Reality_Check

Personally I rarely ever go above 10 reps (on any exercise - except legs) and usually stick to the 5-8 rep range for everything.

10 reps corresponds to 75% of one rep max according to your typical 1 RM calculators such as http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/1rm.htm (might be slightly different for different individuals).

The thing is you need closer to 90% of 1RM to substantially increase strength. Certainly over 80%. But 12 reps is under 75% of 1RM and thus is not a strength building range. So as you are doing 12 reps for everything I would not expect you to experience any strength increase (because you are doing under 75% of 1RM).


(3-5 reps is best muscular strength building range. 8 - 12 for mass. 6 - 8 reps in my opinion is best compromise between strength and mass building (and in the long run you need to build strength for high rep mass building sets to work. i.e. if strength doesn't increase neither will the weight you can do 12 reps with and hence neither will your mass increase past a point. Thus just doing 12 reps all the time you will top out and no longer improve in mass either)).


My strategy would be to increase strength with 5 -6 rep range then after a noticeable strength increase has been achieved (say add 20 lb to bench or something) then do the higher rep sets with the higher weight to build more mass. Then repeat cycle.

At any rate I would be trying to use a mixture of both low rep and high rep work. Do some military press (or bench or whatever) at 5 - 6 reps then do other military press sets (or bench or whatever) at 10-12 reps (either in same workout or alternative workouts).

In my own case the typical strategy I used is - for whatever weight I can lift 5 reps with I don't increase the weight but increase the reps each week (when I can) until I am eventually doing 8 reps with that weight. Once I hit 8 reps I then add weight till I can only do 5 reps, then repeat cycle.

(I went from benching under 95 lb to 385 lb using that approach myself - over about 10 years).

If you have already got some pretty serious strength going on then working out in the 12 rep range will add some serious mass to that strength. If not you are best to build the strength base first in my opinion.

For example the guy who can do 5 reps with 250 bench will put on serious mass if he increases that to doing 12 reps of 250 - on the other hand the guy who can do 12 reps with 100 lb bench will maybe grow a bit but then if he doesn't try a heavier weight and hence use lower reps he won't get stronger or bigger - to be bigger he needs to be doing 12 reps with something heavier than his current weight- you need to increase either your weight lifted or repetitions with a given weight to grow. Sorry not explaining this well.

What I'm saying is once you are doing 12 reps with a weight you need to increase performance - either reps or weight to grow, but 12 reps won't grow you in strength. And at 12 reps you won't add much in reps either, like say 15 reps - unless you're doing a weight so light its cardio (once you're doing much above 12 reps your moving from anaerobic to aerobic territory, which is not where the mass gain is to be found - think of moving from sprinter to long distance runner physique). So while 12 reps with a given weight is somewhere to aim to get to, once your are actually there its best to move on to a higher weight and consequently lower reps (which you might then increase to 12 again). Hmmm still not explaining this as well as I'd like.

Oh and by the way I would eat more too. You are either losing fat or gaining muscle mass and strength - its tough to do both together especialy for a newbie and a 41 Y/O one at that (maybe some expert out there can do it - but for most of us mere mortals you have to pick one or the other).

old supe might disagree with this.

[NorthernBuilder]

ccvortex you say you eat "85% clean" and maybe you do, but there's alot more to it than just eating clean. Protiens, carbs and essential fats. How many meals do you eat, how many different types of carbs and protien through the day, and at which meals. Id seriously look into your diet. And as someone else said you cant gain on a deficit, period.

Weights for me in beginning stages are usually 4 sets of 6 to 8 and I increase my weight every second set. Ive gained alot this way. Also you really really need to to do the stuff you dont like, especially SQUATS, BENCH PRESS AND DEADLIFTS !!!

[ccvortex]

Originally Posted by NorthernBuilder

ccvortex you say you eat "85% clean" and maybe you do, but there's alot more to it than just eating clean. Protiens, carbs and essential fats. How many meals do you eat, how many different types of carbs and protien through the day, and at which meals. Id seriously look into your diet. And as someone else said you cant gain on a deficit, period.

Weights for me in beginning stages are usually 4 sets of 6 to 8 and I increase my weight every second set. Ive gained alot this way. Also you really really need to to do the stuff you dont like, especially SQUATS, BENCH PRESS AND DEADLIFTS !!!

I do eat that clean; as a matter of fact I am kind of a nazi about it. But yeah, I don't think (after reading what has been said here) I eat enough.

One more question: should I eat that much every day, or just the days I work out?

[Bando]

Originally Posted by ccvortex

I do eat that clean; as a matter of fact I am kind of a nazi about it. But yeah, I don't think (after reading what has been said here) I eat enough.

One more question: should I eat that much every day, or just the days I work out?

Do you want to look like a bb'er everyday or just the days you w/o?

[Reality_Check]

Originally Posted by thomasale

old supe might disagree with this.

But what do you disagree with? Which part exactly, rep ranges? I'd be curious to know your take?