The only one of those reasons that has any relevance to me is animal rights. I love animals think its shocking how some are treated but killing them for food is natural and it is our right, just as other animals have a right to kill for their food. The only problem i have is how they are treated and killed.
I'm a lifelong vegetarian and I agree with you 100%. When someone asks my why I pretty much recite what you just said.
Eating a ton of meat like some BB'ers probably isn't that healthy, but I definitely think a little is better than none.
That's not including protein from other sources. I also was eating a ton of fruits/veggies, some beans/legumes.
I was coming back from a break from lifting and I wanted to get back to my previous size quickly, so I kind of overdid (put on a ton of fat), but you get the idea.
Getting a lot of protein as a veg isn't easy but it's doable.
I'm back up to about 195 trying to make steady strength gains, so these days I'm doing an intermittent fasting type of thing with a 5X5 workout. I get about 120g/day from eggs/dairy combined, plus maybe another 30-40 grams from other sources. I've gained about 5lbs over the last two months.
What are your goals, BB, PL, athletics?
As for whey, IME Designer is the best tasting, cheapest, vegetarian brand. If don't care about being that strict, Isopure is straight up delicious.
BTW what are you reasons for going veg? IMO if it's about health you're doing it for the wrong reasons. If it's for other reasons then GJDM
And I'm pretty sure 1devil wrote an article somewhere for veg BB'ing.
I have concluded that every vegetarian I have spoken to is crazy. I have never met anyone with a rational reason for not eating meat, besides, "I was raised vegetarian by my parents and therefore I don't have the enzymes to digest meat."
I have concluded that every vegetarian I have spoken to is crazy. I have never met anyone with a rational reason for not eating meat, besides, "I was raised vegetarian by my parents and therefore I don't have the enzymes to digest meat."
I'm the only raised vegetarian that I know, and who the hell says they don't have the enzymes to digest meat? Lulz - where are you from?
My parents didn't like the treatment of animals and they decided to become vegetarian and then raise their children that way. Of course I have the enzymes to digest meat. I'm not a deer or something.
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I CAN SQUAT AGAIN! Woot woot! I'm back on my leg days!
I have concluded that every vegetarian I have spoken to is crazy. I have never met anyone with a rational reason for not eating meat, besides, "I was raised vegetarian by my parents and therefore I don't have the enzymes to digest meat."
Hi there mac520, I'm SlammaJamma. Nice to meet you.
I once thought myself that it would be very difficult, if not impossible to gain muscle without eating meat.
I have been a natural bodybuilding enthusiast for more than 15 years now, since I lifted my first weight when I was 14 years old. I have bee through all sort of plateaus and stagnation, followed lots of different diets, some with lots of proteins from meat, some with lots of proteins from various sources? and I have found that you can achieve great results, no matter your protein source, as long as you eat right and follow a well established plan.
As why should one avoid eating meat, this as to be tested by yourself, but now that I won?t eat anymore meat or fish, I feel really better? inside.
It all began the day I saw a video a cow that was beaten to death to be sold and eaten? This day I told to myself:
-Does my bodybuilding goals are *so* essentials that I can afford to think animals are dying for a noble cause? (Which would have been to gain some pounds of muscles)
-Are not we, human beings, supposed to be evolved or are we just some dominant predators, organized to kill inferior races efficiently just to satisfy our egoist views?
And most importantly for me, as I did not realize it before, I asked me the question:
-?if a cat or a dog or a bird, came by my garden and died right in front of my door? would I eat his dead body to get free proteins? When I was younger, I would even not bother to think about all the chicken who died for the purpose of me gaining inches on my arms? but once you ask yourself these question? can you fairly not even think of an alternative?
I went the vegetarian way from this day, and made very good progress from my point of view. I definitely encourage every one to, at least, think about it 10 seconds? it can?t hurt anybody.
PS: Go ahead, flame me if you think I am wrong, we are here to debate.
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I once thought myself that it would be very difficult, if not impossible to gain muscle without eating meat.
I have been a natural bodybuilding enthusiast for more than 15 years now, since I lifted my first weight when I was 14 years old. I have bee through all sort of plateaus and stagnation, followed lots of different diets, some with lots of proteins from meat, some with lots of proteins from various sources? and I have found that you can achieve great results, no matter your protein source, as long as you eat right and follow a well established plan.
As why should one avoid eating meat, this as to be tested by yourself, but now that I won?t eat anymore meat or fish, I feel really better? inside.
It all began the day I saw a video a cow that was beaten to death to be sold and eaten? This day I told to myself:
-Does my bodybuilding goals are *so* essentials that I can afford to think animals are dying for a noble cause? (Which would have been to gain some pounds of muscles)
-Are not we, human beings, supposed to be evolved or are we just some dominant predators, organized to kill inferior races efficiently just to satisfy our egoist views?
And most importantly for me, as I did not realize it before, I asked me the question:
-?if a cat or a dog or a bird, came by my garden and died right in front of my door? would I eat his dead body to get free proteins? When I was younger, I would even not bother to think about all the chicken who died for the purpose of me gaining inches on my arms? but once you ask yourself these question? can you fairly not even think of an alternative?
I went the vegetarian way from this day, and made very good progress from my point of view. I definitely encourage every one to, at least, think about it 10 seconds? it can?t hurt anybody.
PS: Go ahead, flame me if you think I am wrong, we are here to debate.
Good post. Repped.
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The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. -Mahatma Gandhi
People most readily believe that which they can believe most conveniently. - George Orwell
Power always thinks... that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws. - John Adams
The clincher for me to stop eating meat was when I realized I simply didn't need it. Something shouldn't be dead because you enjoy how it tastes, nor should there be so much trouble involved in its processing (the amount of water pollution for animal **** runoff is astounding).
If I was dropped in the middle of nowhere and needed to kill a deer to survive, I'd do it (if I somehow attained some deer-killing skills that I don't currently have...). But as long as I can remain healthy without it, I just can't reconcile it with any sort of reason.
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I only seem like I know what I'm talking about, because I only talk about things that I know about.
"One farmer says to me: 'You cannot live on vegetable foods solely, for it furnishes nothing to make bones with,' walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, who with vegetable made bones jerk him and his lumbering plow along in spite of every obstacle."
How about concern and compassion for animals? Not a valid reason? Watch the movie Earthlings, if you can sit through that and eat meat, go ahead.
Animals exist to provide us with food. Animals are eaten in the wild every day other animals. If a lion is allowed to prey on the gazelle, why can't I prey on the gazelle too? Why not have ranches with thousands of gazelles (or cows)? I'm sure that animal would rather die instantly by having a pin punched through it's brain than by being slowly eaten alive by a lion.
Not that I mind vegetarians, because that just leaves more meat for me to eat. But I feel sorry for the ones that have been brainwashed by propaganda about the "poor little cute animals that are being slaughtered so we can be selfish and eat meat"
Animals exist to provide us with food. Animals are eaten in the wild every day other animals. If a lion is allowed to prey on the gazelle, why can't I prey on the gazelle too? Why not have ranches with thousands of gazelles (or cows)? I'm sure that animal would rather die instantly by having a pin punched through it's brain than by being slowly eaten alive by a lion.
Not that I mind vegetarians, because that just leaves more meat for me to eat. But I feel sorry for the ones that have been brainwashed by propaganda about the "poor little cute animals that are being slaughtered so we can be selfish and eat meat"
A lion preys on a gazelle and kills it himself with his claws and teeth. I haven't seen anyone kill a cow with their bare hands, but I have seen them pick up a package of ground beef from the meat section of the grocery store. You can't say that those circumstances are the same or even similar.
Oh, and in the wild, sometimes the prey gets away. That tends to happen when it's muscles against muscle and not gun vs. muscle Ever seen anyone try to run from a bullet? The gun always wins.
There is a disconnect when YOU are not the animal killing the other animal. An sadly, the majority of the population is completely disconnected from the death of the animal.
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I CAN SQUAT AGAIN! Woot woot! I'm back on my leg days!
This is a dangerous topic for me because I find both sides equally annoying.
On one side you have the rednecks terrified of anything different from their backwoods status quo and immediately deem any non-meat eater as either a homosexual or an anti-american terrorist.
The flip side is the trustafarian living in some hallucinogenically induced fairy tale land where lions live on tempeh and all wildebeests die of old age. They are most often seen leaving the protest in their SUV.
Jokes and generalizations aside, my personal dietary routine consists of almost zero meat that's been mass produced. Not only are the conditions of mega farms horrific but the pharmaceutical cocktails that must be administered to these animals to keep them 'healthy' are passed on to the consumer. As it stands most of the red meat I consume comes from either deer season or a family member slaughtering one of their free range cattle.
This is a dangerous topic for me because I find both sides equally annoying.
On one side you have the rednecks terrified of anything different from their backwoods status quo and immediately deem any non-meat eater as either a homosexual or an anti-american terrorist.
The flip side is the trustafarian living in some hallucinogenically induced fairy tale land where lions live on tempeh and all wildebeests die of old age. They are most often seen leaving the protest in their SUV.
Jokes and generalizations aside, my personal dietary routine consists of almost zero meat that's been mass produced. Not only are the conditions of mega farms horrific but the pharmaceutical cocktails that must be administered to these animals to keep them 'healthy' are passed on to the consumer. As it stands most of the red meat I consume comes from either deer season or a family member slaughtering one of their free range cattle.
To each his own though.
Agreed completely. Your stance is one I share. No problem with consuming hunted meat or well-kept cattle.
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The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. -Mahatma Gandhi
People most readily believe that which they can believe most conveniently. - George Orwell
Power always thinks... that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws. - John Adams
Not that I mind vegetarians, because that just leaves more meat for me to eat. But I feel sorry for the ones that have been brainwashed by propaganda about the "poor little cute animals that are being slaughtered so we can be selfish and eat meat"
Your ignorance is startling. Death is a natural consequence of life, it is not animals dying that is the problem. It is their treatment. If you get your meat from a proper farm where animals are treated well, that is fine. Factory farms are inhumane.
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The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. -Mahatma Gandhi
People most readily believe that which they can believe most conveniently. - George Orwell
Power always thinks... that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws. - John Adams
Your ignorance is startling. Death is a natural consequence of life, it is not animals dying that is the problem. It is their treatment. If you get your meat from a proper farm where animals are treated well, that is fine. Factory farms are inhumane.
Well I guess I am lucky that I don't care that factory farms are inhumane. Unlike like you, I can't afford the luxury of paying extra money for higher-quality meat from "humane" farms.
Let me guess, you also protest against the "inhumane" working conditions of sweatshops in developing countries? As any student of economics can tell you, they work in those "inhumane" sweatshops because it beats the alternative. They can't afford not to work in a sweatshop.
So you can go ahead and pay whatever it costs to buy organic, grass-fed beef. When I'm as rich as you I will dish out the extra money too one day. But at the moment I can't afford that luxury. I can't afford not to eat my beef.
Well I guess I am lucky that I don't care that factory farms are inhumane. Unlike like you, I can't afford the luxury of paying extra money for higher-quality meat from "humane" farms.
I don't pay more for my meat. I just don't eat it.
Quote:
Let me guess, you also protest against the "inhumane" working conditions of sweatshops in developing countries? As any student of economics can tell you, they work in those "inhumane" sweatshops because it beats the alternative. They can't afford not to work in a sweatshop.
I am aware of that. I do not protest against sweatshops. Humans are free to enter into any contracts they choose to, even if I think they are unfair. Banning low wage jobs and child labor could have devastating effects for many poor people.
Banning inhumane animal slaughter has no devastating effect for anyone. That is the difference. Inhuman working conditions enable people to survive. Inhumane animal conditions do not ensure survival, they ensure destruction.
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The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. -Mahatma Gandhi
People most readily believe that which they can believe most conveniently. - George Orwell
Power always thinks... that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws. - John Adams
Again, animals are not slaughtered inhumanely. They are usually killed instantly and they feel no pain. It's not efficient to torture animals before killing them.
Again, animals are not slaughtered inhumanely. They are usually killed instantly and they feel no pain. It's not efficient to torture animals before killing them.
Google factory farming. Educate yourself. If that's your idea of humane well...you've got problems.
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"Step over to the Abdominator and I will shout slogans at you: Push harder, go past the max, reach over the top, master your ass!!" - Rainer Wolfcastle
"Once I blazed across the sky,
Leaving trails of flame;
I fell to earth, and here I lie -
Who'll help me up again?
-A Shooting Star"
Again, animals are not slaughtered inhumanely. They are usually killed instantly and they feel no pain. It's not efficient to torture animals before killing them.
Wow, you took a video from a liberal news media that shows a clip of the worst aspect from a couple slaughters of cattle. That proves nothing.
Nevertheless, I suppose this is more opinion than fact. In my opinion, the ends justify the means. You can watch all sorts of videos about the inhumanity of war from World War II, but in the end, the war was necessary. The ends justify the means.
Putting billions of dollars of cheap beef on the shelfs of the supermarket so that low-income households can afford beef outweighs the "suffering" of that animal. This trumps the argument against factory farms, in my opinion. I would rather see a cow be shot in the brain than see human beings eat a bland vegetarian diet. Humans > animals.
This trumps the argument against factory farms, in my opinion. I would rather see a cow be shot in the brain than see human beings eat a bland vegetarian diet. Humans > animals.
Humans = animals.
And a meat eaters diet can be just as bland as a vegetarian's diet. I choose to make my diet highly varied. That is a choice everyone has to make - vegan, vegetarian, fruititarian, omnivore, or carnivore.
__________________
I CAN SQUAT AGAIN! Woot woot! I'm back on my leg days!
How about concern and compassion for animals? Not a valid reason? Watch the movie Earthlings, if you can sit through that and eat meat, go ahead.
I love animals and yes i know some of them arent treated very well at all and its terrible. I would really love everyone and everything to live in harmony but it cant work like that especially where things killing for food is concerned.
At the least i would like the animals to live a great life before i eat them. The problem with that is i cant afford it. Free range stuff here costs way too much to be buying weekly and i wont eat beans and tofu for my protein. If it were up to me everything would be right with the world but it isnt, its not going to stop me eating meat though. If you dont think thats a good way to live then tough.
I love animals and yes i know some of them arent treated very well at all and its terrible. I would really love everyone and everything to live in harmony but it cant work like that especially where things killing for food is concerned.
At the least i would like the animals to live a great life before i eat them. The problem with that is i cant afford it. Free range stuff here costs way too much to be buying weekly and i wont eat beans and tofu for my protein. If it were up to me everything would be right with the world but it isnt, its not going to stop me eating meat though. If you dont think thats a good way to live then tough.
I don't mean to single you out specifically since this is most people's rationale for eating meat, but it's completely pathetic and desperate to use this reason.
"Well, the world isn't perfect, so why shouldn't it just be **** then?"
Doesn't anyone understand that there are gradients to the quality of life? No one can be a saint, and that shouldn't be the goal.
The goal should be reducing the harm you do to the people around you and the world as a whole. I don't mean being kind to everyone and everything, or being passive, but just avoiding doing any real harm.
And secondly, do you apply that rationale to other things as well? The reason you gave is a good enough reason to give up on anything, due to the fact that it will never be perfect.
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I only seem like I know what I'm talking about, because I only talk about things that I know about.
"One farmer says to me: 'You cannot live on vegetable foods solely, for it furnishes nothing to make bones with,' walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, who with vegetable made bones jerk him and his lumbering plow along in spite of every obstacle."
meat is a complet protein source meaning you can get all amino acids from it. vegetarians need a wide variety of different foods to make a complete protein source. this is achievable...but even harder is vegan, probably needing to eat a thousand tons of food to do it, or fake food like facon (fake bacon)
meat is a complet protein source meaning you can get all amino acids from it. vegetarians need a wide variety of different foods to make a complete protein source. this is achievable...but even harder is vegan, probably needing to eat a thousand tons of food to do it, or fake food like facon (fake bacon)
wrong, wrong, wrong.
A PDCAAS value of 1 is the highest, and 0 the lowest as the table demonstrates the ratings of commons foods below.
whey (1.0)
egg white (1.0)
casein (1.0)
milk (1.0)
soy protein isolate (1.00)
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