get ready for show w/o "dieting"??

[Muscle69camaro]

I wanted to know if it was possible to get into contest shape without having to do a whole bunch of carb manipulation and hardcore dieting?

I have done one bbing show last year and when I did so I carb cycled like everyone said you have to. I cut out dairy, and fast digesting carbs such as fruit juices. I basically lived off of chicken, tuna, eggs and oatmeal for 2 months. and really didnt lose any "weight". started the diet around 165lbs and the night before I was 160lbs. then 152 the day of because of the diuretic I was on (xpel) and how I manipulated my water intake.

this seemed to work pretty good because I got cut up but I felt flat because of carb depeltion. Im naturally around 7-8% bf so its not like im losing 30lbs to get ready for a show.

that said, Im wondering if its possible to just do a TON of cardio and use a diuretic at the last week and get in shape for a show?

thanks in advance

sorry no cliffs- read it.

[Muscle69camaro]

anybody?

[tvicemanXXL]

You shouldn't have to us a diuretic to be lean enough to win a competition. From how it sounds, your definition of "cut" is nowhere close to my definition of "shredded". Based on your avatar, I'll bet I'm leaner than you right now and I'm dieting 16 weeks out for a competition.

The point of a precontest diet is to lose as much fat while sparing as much muscle as possible. If you aren't "dieting" you aren't putting yourself in an optimal situation to accomplish this goal. But just because you're dieting doesn't mean you can only eat chicken, tuna, and eggs.

[Muscle69camaro]

Originally Posted by tvicemanXXL

You shouldn't have to us a diuretic to be lean enough to win a competition. From how it sounds, your definition of "cut" is nowhere close to my definition of "shredded". Based on your avatar, I'll bet I'm leaner than you right now and I'm dieting 16 weeks out for a competition.

The point of a precontest diet is to lose as much fat while sparing as much muscle as possible. If you aren't "dieting" you aren't putting yourself in an optimal situation to accomplish this goal. But just because you're dieting doesn't mean you can only eat chicken, tuna, and eggs.

Im going by the simple math of: calories in vs. calories out. i figure if I eat the SAME (high protein and enough carbs to maintain fullness) and do ALOT of cardio (since I never do any in the off season) wont that worukout the same way? right now im at 8% bodyfat. Id like to get down to about 4% for my next show. so why would it be a problem to do it this way?

My body doesnt respond to carb cycling like some endomorphs that I know... it doesnt do anything for me.

[Muscle69camaro]

73 people looked at this ****, and dont have ANY input? wtf is wrong with you people?

[camaleom]

[Muscle69camaro]

Originally Posted by camaleom

dumbass. i wanted a serious answer and aparently everone is too fukin tarded to come up with anything.

[canes_fan_07]

There are no shortcuts to getting lean for a show. Like tvice said, people that are already leaner than you actually diet and in many cases for a long time, not just a month or two. Just doing cardio all the time runs the risk of substantial muscle loss where as eating properly and doing the correct amount of cardio will allow you to lose fat and maintain most of your muscle mass.

[quest-x]

Originally Posted by Muscle69camaro

dumbass. i wanted a serious answer and aparently everone is too fukin tarded to come up with anything.

Hey muscle69camaro,

I would chill with calling everyone "too fukn tarded to come up with anything". Maybe people are busy enjoying relaxing for the holiday, maybe they're at work, maybe they're not sitting at home all day waiting for questions to answer, etc.

When you say "ready for a show", do you mean having enough conditioning to generally win shows? (striated glutes, split hams) Or do you mean just decent conditioning?

I'll assume the former. Firstly, of course it's possible to burn fat by simply adding more physical activity, such as cardio, and not reducing calories. Likewise, it's possible to burn fat solely by dieting--no cardio. However, depending on the invididual, one might get better results by doing more cardio, and on the othe rhand another may fare better with more aggressive dieting instead. Many find a certain combination of both suits them.

I'd say that for a few individuals, it'd certainly be possible to get into contest shape by simply adding more and more cardio... However, I believe that the vast majority of competitors need to alter their diets at some point in order to achieve a respectable level of leanness.

Regarding your comments on water manipulation, please read this:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ighlight=water

It states that, basically, no amount of water manipulation will make fat disappear.

Out of curiosity, do you have any photos of yourself the day of the show?

[Muscle69camaro]

Originally Posted by quest-x

Hey muscle69camaro,

I would chill with calling everyone "too fukn tarded to come up with anything". Maybe people are busy enjoying relaxing for the holiday, maybe they're at work, maybe they're not sitting at home all day waiting for questions to answer, etc.

When you say "ready for a show", do you mean having enough conditioning to generally win shows? (striated glutes, split hams) Or do you mean just decent conditioning?

I'll assume the former. Firstly, of course it's possible to burn fat by simply adding more physical activity, such as cardio, and not reducing calories. Likewise, it's possible to burn fat solely by dieting--no cardio. However, depending on the invididual, one might get better results by doing more cardio, and on the othe rhand another may fare better with more aggressive dieting instead. Many find a certain combination of both suits them.

I'd say that for a few individuals, it'd certainly be possible to get into contest shape by simply adding more and more cardio... However, I believe that the vast majority of competitors need to alter their diets at some point in order to achieve a respectable level of leanness.

Regarding your comments on water manipulation, please read this:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ighlight=water

It states that, basically, no amount of water manipulation will make fat disappear.

Out of curiosity, do you have any photos of yourself the day of the show?

yes, here they are..










basically, I think I placed as i did (4th) because my legs need alot of work, and my tan wasnt deep enough. i couldnt fake n bake because I had a crash 2 months before and new skin just came back

[quest-x]

Muscle69camaro,

Thanks for posting your pics. Firstly, congrats on the show.

From what I can see from that one photo, none of the guys in your class really had that much conditioning. Granted, your tan could've been better, but I think if you had been more conditioned, you would've had a chance at a placing as high as second.

Anyway, back to your original question. Again, some individuals respond better to dieting and others respond better to cardio. Most do a mix of both, though an extremely small number can get away with zero dieting and come in decent conditioning--I can't think of too many natties that can do this, maybe a very small number. My advice is for you to experiment next time. If you want to avoid dieting, then just keep adding cardio and see how that works for your own body. It's all about experimenting and learning your own body as well as preferences. I think learning how one's own body works is one of the best accomplishments anyone can make.

Personally, I would never be able to get NEAR contest shape without bring my carbs down and doing 4-5 cardio sessions a week. That said, if I could choose either more dieting or more cardio, I'd choose stricter dieting because I wouldn't have the time to add enough cardio to compensate.

Hope that helps.

[tvicemanXXL]

Originally Posted by Muscle69camaro

73 people looked at this ****, and dont have ANY input? wtf is wrong with you people?

Dude you need to chill out. With comments like this no one will want to help you.

[Frankdaddy]

Originally Posted by Muscle69camaro

anybody?

My advice, and I take it very seriously as an up and coming amatuer bodybuilder. My advice is quit taking bodybuilding as a joke. I have no problem with competing for fun, but people who say that [/b]MOSTLY[/b] you can tell from the way they show up, and talk. Just like you! Work your ass off buddy, this sport is meant for everyone to work hard, and improve in so many ways that a normal person cant, and I hate when people whos been working out wants to do one because they lost 40lbs on the adkins diet (it shows a lot in small shows)

All I have to say is, quit carb delpeting if it dont work, or carb LOAD after you deplete, ever think of that ? WOrk your ass off, and dont come on here running your smartass mouth to everyone. People dont feel like answering dumb questions, and what you posted orignally was dumb as all hell.

Now I am sorry for being a smartass, but honestly if you were in most of the shoes we are in that have been seriously working hard to get where want then you wouldnt wanna answer such a silly question about the sport some of us work our asses off for.

Answer if you havnt figured it out-do it right, work your ass off, and their is not one right way to skin a cat, figure it out.

[camaleom]

After those pictures I can tell that u should diet 8-12 more weeks in order to be contest ready!

good luck!

[-KTA-]

Originally Posted by camaleom

After those pictures I can tell that u should diet 8-12 more weeks in order to be contest ready!

good luck!

But he only lost 5 pounds though. I think personally he should consult someone proffessional. I'm guessing he's got some flawed fundamentals in his diet and training regimen.

From the OPS build it doesn't seem like he's a guy that needs to go really low carb, but that's just from my perception, could be wrong. He's conditioned in some focal points like the abs but not in "weathered" areas like the legs & arms that come from hard work.

OP should look up layne or another proffessional for consultation, i'm betting they'd rock your pre-contest world.

[camaleom]

Originally Posted by kickingtotalass

But he only lost 5 pounds though. I think personally he should consult someone proffessional. I'm guessing he's got some flawed fundamentals in his diet and training regimen.

From the OPS build it doesn't seem like he's a guy that needs to go really low carb, but that's just from my perception, could be wrong. He's conditioned in some focal points like the abs but not in "weathered" areas like the legs & arms that come from hard work.

OP should look up layne or another proffessional for consultation, i'm betting they'd rock your pre-contest world.

I am not a professional but if u see the pictures around this forum, u could easily say the same!

[-KTA-]

Originally Posted by camaleom

I am not a professional but if u see the pictures around this forum, u could easily say the same!

No one is beyond 3rd party perspectives. I always seek them in some form, never stop learning. I've come miles and miles from where I started because I have reached out.

But if you only lose 5lbs during a prep and it was intended for more i'd say some fundamentals were flawed. I'm trying to give constructive input, not trying to be a dick or anything.

He's very lean in his mid section, I just wonder if this transfers to I don't need to diet anymore. Holding back leaness in the rest of his physique.

Hence the question in the OP. Yes you need to diet to step on stage.

[AustrianOakJr]

If you have a fast metabolism (which it appears that you do) then a lo-carb approach isnt smart. Who says you have to remove carbs from your diet? Obviously, total calories has to come down. Take it from carbs and fats evenly. Keep protein high to spare muscle. Do cardio while lowering total calories. Its that simple. And dont act like an idiot. That helps too.

[liftjunkie06]

Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr

If you have a fast metabolism (which it appears that you do) then a lo-carb approach isnt smart. Who says you have to remove carbs from your diet? Obviously, total calories has to come down. Take it from carbs and fats evenly. Keep protein high to spare muscle. Do cardio while lowering total calories. Its that simple. And dont act like an idiot. That helps too.

x 2. It's sad to see how many people want to lower carbs because it appears to be the easier way or whatever. Personally, I keep carbs in as much as possible. They are so important physiologically. First, lower fat to the minimum amount to maintain satiety and proper hormone function. Then, get adequate protein. The rest is for CARBS! And I still do refeed days too.

[liftjunkie06]

Originally Posted by tvicemanXXL

You shouldn't have to us a diuretic to be lean enough to win a competition. From how it sounds, your definition of "cut" is nowhere close to my definition of "shredded". Based on your avatar, I'll bet I'm leaner than you right now and I'm dieting 16 weeks out for a competition.

The point of a precontest diet is to lose as much fat while sparing as much muscle as possible. If you aren't "dieting" you aren't putting yourself in an optimal situation to accomplish this goal. But just because you're dieting doesn't mean you can only eat chicken, tuna, and eggs.

Exactly. I "diet" year round. The goal just changes. And diuretics should die with the rest of the myths like milk making you smooth, carbs are bad, etc.

[str8flexed]

Originally Posted by Muscle69camaro

I wanted to know if it was possible to get into contest shape without having to do a whole bunch of carb manipulation and hardcore dieting?

competitive bodybuilding is not going to be your cup of tea my friend if this is your attitude.


doing a show is hard as hell. That's why not many people do one and even fewer people do well

[Issobolic28]

I was going to do a show in November but I don't think I am lean enough...I'll aim for mid 2009...

[Muscle69camaro]

Originally Posted by str8flexed

competitive bodybuilding is not going to be your cup of tea my friend if this is your attitude.


doing a show is hard as hell. That's why not many people do one and even fewer people do well

ya, I know it is... like I said, and the pics prove, Ive ALREADY done one. and got 4th place. I wanted a different approach for my next one and I was throwing around some ideas. all year round, no matter what I eat, or how much I drink, I NEVER go above about 8% bodyfat. so I figure cut the booze (which isnt hard for me) eat clean and do cardio (since I never do any the whole year) then I would be able to get in condition for a show.

like someone already said, I have a high metabolism so I dont want to cut carbs at all this time around. its not like my veins dissapear (and there are plenty) and I get a beer belly the second I stop watching what im eating.

and whoever said I needed to diet 8-12 MORE weeks doesnt know what theyre talking about. id love to see their pics...

[devo09]

Originally Posted by Muscle69camaro

ya, I know it is... like I said, and the pics prove, Ive ALREADY done one. and got 4th place. I wanted a different approach for my next one and I was throwing around some ideas. all year round, no matter what I eat, or how much I drink, I NEVER go above about 8% bodyfat. so I figure cut the booze (which isnt hard for me) eat clean and do cardio (since I never do any the whole year) then I would be able to get in condition for a show.

like someone already said, I have a high metabolism so I dont want to cut carbs at all this time around. its not like my veins dissapear (and there are plenty) and I get a beer belly the second I stop watching what im eating.

and whoever said I needed to diet 8-12 MORE weeks doesnt know what theyre talking about. id love to see their pics...

Your entire attitude of competing being easy is pretty insulting to the competitors who put 110% of their efforts towards their contest prep.
And bodyfat% doesn't mean anything, all methods are very inaccurate.

The person who said you need to diet 8-12 more weeks was probably referring to being competitive in a pro-qualifier or competitive amateur show.

[Muscle69camaro]

Originally Posted by Frankdaddy

My advice, and I take it very seriously as an up and coming amatuer bodybuilder. My advice is quit taking bodybuilding as a joke. I have no problem with competing for fun, but people who say that [/b]MOSTLY[/b] you can tell from the way they show up, and talk. Just like you! Work your ass off buddy, this sport is meant for everyone to work hard, and improve in so many ways that a normal person cant, and I hate when people whos been working out wants to do one because they lost 40lbs on the adkins diet (it shows a lot in small shows)

All I have to say is, quit carb delpeting if it dont work, or carb LOAD after you deplete, ever think of that ? WOrk your ass off, and dont come on here running your smartass mouth to everyone. People dont feel like answering dumb questions, and what you posted orignally was dumb as all hell.

Now I am sorry for being a smartass, but honestly if you were in most of the shoes we are in that have been seriously working hard to get where want then you wouldnt wanna answer such a silly question about the sport some of us work our asses off for.

Answer if you havnt figured it out-do it right, work your ass off, and their is not one right way to skin a cat, figure it out.

up and coming my a$$! and who the **** ever said I was taking it as a joke??? id knock your lights out if I heard that in person. because I prolly take it more seriously than you do. all I had was a simple ****ing question that went against the grain of what people would consider "normal" and I get flammed for even bringing it up. and im not your ****ing "buddy" so bite me. and I dont care where this thread goes because one or two people told me what i was looking for. and like I am now, im going to run my e-mouth however I like. what u gonna do about it? write a nasty email? haha.

oh one more thing, i dont know what the hell your talking about because I was in better shape than you at my show and heres the pics to prove it ...






my abs are better (you can actually see my seratus) and my bodyfat is the same, if not better than yours so shut the **** up about your "worldly knowledge" of bodybuilding. and do us all a favor and cut your gay a$$ hair!

[Muscle69camaro]

Originally Posted by devo09

Your entire attitude of competing being easy is pretty insulting to the competitors who put 110% of their efforts towards their contest prep.
And bodyfat% doesn't mean anything, all methods are very inaccurate.

The person who said you need to diet 8-12 more weeks was probably referring to being competitive in a pro-qualifier or competitive amateur show.

good. I hope it is.

[devo09]

Originally Posted by Muscle69camaro

oh one more thing, i dont know what the hell your talking about because I was in better shape than you at my show and heres the pics to prove it ...

Thats pretty debatable due to the difference in lighting...but
his physique absoutely smokes yours

[Sporto1633]

Originally Posted by Muscle69camaro

ya, I know it is... like I said, and the pics prove, Ive ALREADY done one. and got 4th place. I wanted a different approach for my next one and I was throwing around some ideas. all year round, no matter what I eat, or how much I drink, I NEVER go above about 8% bodyfat. so I figure cut the booze (which isnt hard for me) eat clean and do cardio (since I never do any the whole year) then I would be able to get in condition for a show.

like someone already said, I have a high metabolism so I dont want to cut carbs at all this time around. its not like my veins dissapear (and there are plenty) and I get a beer belly the second I stop watching what im eating.

and whoever said I needed to diet 8-12 MORE weeks doesnt know what theyre talking about. id love to see their pics...

I'll second what they said that you definitely need 8-12 more weeks, and feel free to look at my pics. Your conditioning, in all honesty, is 'ok' at best. Even the rest of the competitors in those pics don't really have great conditioning either, at least not enough to win any regional show or above, and you still placed at the bottom. It might pass for a small local show where nobody really shows up, but that's it. On top of that, you have a long way to go as far as muscular development is concerned if you want to be competitive in this sport, even as a natural. I realize you are young, but you'll need to understand that muscular development is just as important in having that hard, lean look as conditioning is. And that is not to trying and be mean, that's just being brutally honest.

Also, most people really underestimate how fat they really are - you actually look like a legitimate 8% in your contest pics, and even that depends on how lean your backside is. If you knew what it actually took to get to a REAL 3-4% bodyfat, you'd understand that you are probably fatter than you think you are. That's another realization you will have to accept if you want to do well and continue in this sport.

The fact is, it all depends on how well you really want to do, what type of show you are doing, who all shows up in what shape, etc. What you are asking is a relative question. If you actually wanted to be at the level of leanness that wins most regional and above shows, you will not achieve that by any of the methods you mentioned, I can guarantee you that. If you want to do a small local show, where not very many people show up who haven't the slightest clue on how to approach dieting for a show, then you can probably do well using the methods you mentioned. It's all relative. And is the goal to win? Is the goal to be your absolute best? Is the goal to do as little as possible and just come in decent condition? All of those are questions need to be considered.

Lastly, and I mean this in a positive way - your attitude is pretty piss poor. It was apparant when you waited a mere 13 minutes to bump the thread becuse nobody had responded yet (seriously man, people have lives and are busy), and continued with your arrogant reponses. You don't even have close to the type of physique to even be cocky in the first place. Not to mention if you are constantly a sh*thead to people, no one will ever help you out. There are some really damn fine prep coaches and extremely knowledgeable people that lurk and post in this section. They can take your physique to anywhere you want to go. But if you don't humble yourself and realize that you just might not know everything is to know, no one will give a sh*t to help you.

To your original questions, you need to ask yourself what the ultimate goal is. Do you want to be the absolute best you can be? Or do you just want to see how little you can do and come in decent condition? The answer will determine what it is you will need to do in order to achieve what you want.

Sporto

[lth]

Originally Posted by Muscle69camaro

up and coming my a$$! and who the **** ever said I was taking it as a joke??? id knock your lights out if I heard that in person. because I prolly take it more seriously than you do. all I had was a simple ****ing question that went against the grain of what people would consider "normal" and I get flammed for even bringing it up. and im not your ****ing "buddy" so bite me. and I dont care where this thread goes because one or two people told me what i was looking for. and like I am now, im going to run my e-mouth however I like. what u gonna do about it? write a nasty email? haha.

oh one more thing, i dont know what the hell your talking about because I was in better shape than you at my show and heres the pics to prove it ...






my abs are better (you can actually see my seratus) and my bodyfat is the same, if not better than yours so shut the **** up about your "worldly knowledge" of bodybuilding. and do us all a favor and cut your gay a$$ hair!

Negged for being a complete tool. It was his first show, he was completely new to bodybuilding coming from powerlifting and he still placed 4th overall. His work ethic is through the roof and he would never have this halfass attitude you portray!

[AustrianOakJr]

Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr

And dont act like an idiot. That helps too.

Now....you didnt listen to my advice. And im offended. You went off acted like an idiot anyways.

Lighten up, dude. As Tommy said.....there are a lot of people on this forum that are super knowledgeable and are willing to share that knowledge just to be nice. I wouldnt have been nearly as successful at my first show if it werent for this forum. NO doubt in my mind. So, when you run your "e-mouth" like a total freakin jackass youre only burning your own bridge. Not a smart thing to do. It would be wise, however, to turn things around with an apology for acting like a total tool.