Jim Cordova VS Natural Mr.Olympia

[kneedamage]

Originally Posted by Grinners

Why are you posting pictures were he doesn't look his best...?

That is idiotic.

I could show a pic of when he was 3 to prove he wasn't on steroids back then but it would be useless to the debate.

We are OBVSIOUSLY talking about the pics were he is head and shoulders above any other natural competitor ever.

To be fair, this isnt a damn thing in that picture you can compare his ACTUAL size to.

[KPipes0683]

Originally Posted by Agostage

Exactly! He's not that big of a guy, it's all illusion, a very very good illusion.

Number 1 answer brother, ILLUSION! I remember listening to Skip Lacour talk about little things that they do at photoshoots to make you look bigger than you really are, thus creating that illusion.

[Grinners]

Originally Posted by KPipes0683

Number 1 answer brother, ILLUSION! I remember listening to Skip Lacour talk about little things that they do at photoshoots to make you look bigger than you really are, thus creating that illusion.

OOOoh i'd like to read that, got a link? Sounds interesting.

[KPipes0683]

Originally Posted by Grinners

OOOoh i'd like to read that, got a link? Sounds interesting.

http://www.podcastalley.com/podcast_...p?pod_id=18487


Go to the bottom and you can download the interview. If it doesn't work, PM me I have it on my computer still.

[Maximus78]

I train at the same gym that Jim does... Any of you speculators want to prove he's natural, PM me and we'll set something up...

[streetlethaleg6]

Originally Posted by really_nice_guy

Here's the GREAT Frank Zane

3x Mr. Olympia!

Used steroids



"Natural" bodybuilders today are beating him!

How?

PROTEIN SHAKES? CELL-TECH HARDCORE?!?!?

Give me a break!

They are juicing and getting past the system! Plain and simple!

Open your eyes, or at least don't hate on us who know what's really going on!

Good post. point taken.

[low blow]

Originally Posted by streetlethaleg6

Good post. point taken.

lol what? Zane won on conditioning and proportion and thats without saying he outsized even back then. Use your head

Their are numerous natural members on this site who are just as/if not more muscular then zane

[Grinners]

Originally Posted by Maximus78

I train at the same gym that Jim does... Any of you speculators want to prove he's natural, PM me and we'll set something up...

... How the hell would you do that...?

Wear ninja outfits and sneak a blood sample from him???

[billfinkbiner]

Originally Posted by Whey Hey

Guys come on, dont be so naive... how can this guy be on AAS:







If Jim is on AAS, then EVERYBODY in the whole WNBF (or whatever its called) is technically on steroids...

Compare his size to others, its not unbelievable...

These pics are from when Jim won the overall at the 2007 WNBF World Championships.

It just goes to show that people can look huge until you stand them next to others.

[Loctus]

Originally Posted by low blow

Their are numerous natural members on this site who are just as/if not more muscular then zane

WTF are you smoking?

[debrovnik]

Originally Posted by really_nice_guy

Here's the GREAT Frank Zane

3x Mr. Olympia!

Used steroids



"Natural" bodybuilders today are beating him!

How?

PROTEIN SHAKES? CELL-TECH HARDCORE?!?!?

Give me a break!

They are juicing and getting past the system! Plain and simple!

Open your eyes, or at least don't hate on us who know what's really going on!

This.


/thread.

[Bondons]

You guys that are saying all the natural competitors are on AAS and other drugs...get real.

I've been bodybuilding for 1 year and in my eyes come a long way. If I can't look like these guys in 10 years time then something is wrong. They look great don't get me wrong, but they don't scream gear.
You really dont' think the human body is capable of getting that way without gear? Maybe you just don't have the drive to do it yourself. Don't talk down on an organization because you don't have the dedication to do what they do.

[low blow]

Originally Posted by Loctus

WTF are you smoking?

well in the picture you posted Zane looks a lot more muscular then the one i responded too.

[Joe Go]

If you guys want to see what it takes for a natural off all supplements and only using food come on over to my journey thread (see signature). I assure you that there are no illegal drugs used (ever). It's all about diet, training and posing. It's hard to say what my show weight will be, but 165 sounds about right. I'm floating in the low 180's right now. I'm no where near Zane's level, but I'll adjust my posing to make myself look my best.

[zugswang]

Originally Posted by Bondons

You guys that are saying all the natural competitors are on AAS and other drugs...get real.

I've been bodybuilding for 1 year and in my eyes come a long way. If I can't look like these guys in 10 years time then something is wrong. They look great don't get me wrong, but they don't scream gear.
You really dont' think the human body is capable of getting that way without gear? Maybe you just don't have the drive to do it yourself. Don't talk down on an organization because you don't have the dedication to do what they do.

1 year = noob gains. Its not linear progression, gains drop drastically each year. Lyle Mcdonald has said that year 1 =25lbs, year 2 = 10lbs, year 3 = 5lbs then it drops further and further.. you can only put on so much muscle mass naturally (like 70lbs)



edit: although im sure there are freaks out there. Segre Nubret said himself that he had lean 21"" arms even before taking steroids (and he has no reason to lie).. THose guys are few and far between though

[Brutality187]

Originally Posted by zugswang

1 year = noob gains. Its not linear progression, gains drop drastically each year. Lyle Mcdonald has said that year 1 =25lbs, year 2 = 10lbs, year 3 = 5lbs then it drops further and further.. you can only put on so much muscle mass naturally (like 70lbs)



edit: although im sure there are freaks out there. Segre Nubret said himself that he had lean 21"" arms even before taking steroids (and he has no reason to lie).. THose guys are few and far between though

'He has no reason to lie' -> L O L ... Publicity anyone?

He openly denied using steroids all his life, where the **** did he ever admit as u are saying?

[Newbtime]

Originally Posted by really_nice_guy

Here's the GREAT Frank Zane

3x Mr. Olympia!

Used steroids



"Natural" bodybuilders today are beating him!

How?

PROTEIN SHAKES? CELL-TECH HARDCORE?!?!?

Give me a break!

They are juicing and getting past the system! Plain and simple!

Open your eyes, or at least don't hate on us who know what's really going on!

maybe because the guy worked out with 200 lbs on the ****ing leg press and trained like a complete puss bag in general and was small as hell?

there are plenty of naturals that are stronger/more muscular then people that have used.

[Newbtime]

Originally Posted by Loctus

WTF are you smoking?

He is probably 35 in that pic, and he is about the size of layne norton, a 26 year old natural ecto.

[Bondons]

Originally Posted by zugswang

1 year = noob gains. Its not linear progression, gains drop drastically each year. Lyle Mcdonald has said that year 1 =25lbs, year 2 = 10lbs, year 3 = 5lbs then it drops further and further.. you can only put on so much muscle mass naturally (like 70lbs)



edit: although im sure there are freaks out there. Segre Nubret said himself that he had lean 21"" arms even before taking steroids (and he has no reason to lie).. THose guys are few and far between though

I did normal weight training 1 year before that...put on 15lbs...so "technically" it was my second year of weight training.

[TheSheepdog]

Originally Posted by zugswang

1 year = noob gains. Its not linear progression, gains drop drastically each year. Lyle Mcdonald has said that year 1 =25lbs, year 2 = 10lbs, year 3 = 5lbs then it drops further and further.. you can only put on so much muscle mass naturally (like 70lbs)



edit: although im sure there are freaks out there. Segre Nubret said himself that he had lean 21"" arms even before taking steroids (and he has no reason to lie).. THose guys are few and far between though

lol, where did 70lbs come from? When i first started working out i was 180, i went to 280lbs in 8 years, and my bench went from 1115lbs, to 445lbs.

I don't understand why people keep setting limitations on themselves, no wonder people give up so easily...
1.because they already set the bar.
2.they are lazy

it took me 8 years to figure out how my body responds to exercises, rest and nutrition...8 years on my own and thats with a degree in exercise physiology.
Most people want it over night so they look for the magic potion, it aint going to happen.

Science has advanced the sport of bodybuilding and i dont mean AAS, i mean
the science of recovery and nutrition. Supplementation and the amount of rest that a person should get has changed since the days of Zane. Bodybuilding articles and research are more readily available then it was back in the 70's , 80's and even the early 90's. Thus you will have individuals who will be faster, stronger and believe it or not have better physiques then your steroid using pro's from the 70's and eventually the 80's. Back in the day guys use to work out in 2 hour marathon sessions and 8-10 days straight, what they thought was aiding in recovery, didnt have the "advance" protein shakes, the creatine and the "super" vitamins that we have now.

You can no longer put a limitation on the natural athlete. I had threads about me in the misc and in the aas section claiming i was on steroids. I see physiques on bodyspace that i think are bogus claims of being natural, but then i have to remember that people do the same thing with me, so i cant do it to other people. Why claim that you are natural on a bodybuilding site that openly discusses steroid use, it just makes no since.

[King-B]

My take on this issue is that people who seem unwilling to believe that a suberp physique is naturally attainable have been conditioned to believe this way through experience. There is an openness and lack of modesty prevalent among people today and so steroid users are not as concerned with hiding their behavior as they would have been a generation or two ago.

Moreover, there seems to be a correlation between being a steroid user and being willing to discuss their use and having an open attitude in general. As a result, those who are more likely to show off their physiques in public, are the same ones who are likely to be open about steroid use. This may result in a perceived higher incidence of well-built people who use steroids than well-built people who abstain from them, if any of the latter are noticed by the casual observer at all.

Consequently, I believe, many people confuse the fact that they only encounter well-built people who also happen to use steroids, with the false notion that steroids are a prerequisite for building a superb physique. The reality, especially with modern training advances, is that a spectacular body can be built without steroids. Some evidence is presented below:

Steroids were first developed for human use around the 1930s. This is Eugen Sandow, the model for the Mr. O trophy, whi died in 1925, years before steroids were developed.


If Mr. Sandow could build such an impressive physique 80+ years ago and without modern training knowledge, much less steroids, is it that far of a stretch to believe that Cordova could build his physique without roids in modern times?

Are we forgetting the stunning drug-free physiques of olympic gymnasts? And they don't even train specifically for appearance.

[psamty]

Strong haters in this thread... why would someone compete in a natural show if they weren't natural? It's not like there much money in it...

Give the man his due, and use him as inspiration rather than a punching bag to unload your frustrations brahs. These are the kinds of guys that can bring bbing to the masses and maintain proportionate physiques year round.

Serge Nubret also claims he is a lifetime natty, and looking at the shape he is in now, I believe him. Some people just are blessed and work harder than anyone else.

[LOVINGTHEEIRON]

^^^ I agreed with all you said until the Serge Nubret being a lifetime natural... Thats a stretch IMO

[Pull-Up]

Serge Nubret also claims he is a lifetime natty, and looking at the shape he is in now, I believe him. Some people just are blessed and work harder than anyone else.

Oh please, dont be so naive.

[Whey Hey]

Originally Posted by King-B

My take on this issue is that people who seem unwilling to believe that a suberp physique is naturally attainable have been conditioned to believe this way through experience. There is an openness and lack of modesty prevalent among people today and so steroid users are not as concerned with hiding their behavior as they would have been a generation or two ago.

Moreover, there seems to be a correlation between being a steroid user and being willing to discuss their use and having an open attitude in general. As a result, those who are more likely to show off their physiques in public, are the same ones who are likely to be open about steroid use. This may result in a perceived higher incidence of well-built people who use steroids than well-built people who abstain from them, if any of the latter are noticed by the casual observer at all.

Consequently, I believe, many people confuse the fact that they only encounter well-built people who also happen to use steroids, with the false notion that steroids are a prerequisite for building a superb physique. The reality, especially with modern training advances, is that a spectacular body can be built without steroids. Some evidence is presented below:

Steroids were first developed for human use around the 1930s. This is Eugen Sandow, the model for the Mr. O trophy, whi died in 1925, years before steroids were developed.


If Mr. Sandow could build such an impressive physique 80+ years ago and without modern training knowledge, much less steroids, is it that far of a stretch to believe that Cordova could build his physique without roids in modern times?

Are we forgetting the stunning drug-free physiques of olympic gymnasts? And they don't even train specifically for appearance.

A very thorough response, thanks.

x2 by the way.

[King-B]

Originally Posted by Whey Hey

A very thorough response, thanks.

x2 by the way.

"King- thorough- B"

[FitzChivalry]

Originally Posted by Newbtime

He is probably 35 in that pic, and he is about the size of layne norton, a 26 year old natural ecto.

He blows Norton out of the water (no offense), imo. Look at the posing vids on-line. No comparison.

Also, Bobby Pandour is even more impressive than Sandow, imo.

[SEMPER_BIG]

really funny how everyone has forgot to mention that Jim Cordova is in his 30s at his age and with all those years of training under his belt of course he's going to look great....but once again he only steps on stage @ 165lb and im sorry but that is extremely doable without gear or anything else for that matter.

[JOHN GARGANI]

I'm over here biting my tongue reading this whole thread..every post......

all I can say is this:

go over to the AAS section of BB.com and take a look a the pictures of many of the guys who sound like know it all chemists and biochemical geniuses when they discuss their cycles.....

then compare them to the pros.......

why such a difference: BECAUSE EVEN FOR PEOPLE TAKING GEAR, GENETICS IS A BIG FACTOR.......


therefore, why, is it so hard for people to accept the fact that similarly, there are genetically gifted people who will also respond much more with a natural approach than other naturals???


there is a pecking order in all things, all sports, all endeavors:

I know people who have been studying classical piano for 20 years and I can play rings around them because I am a "natural" who, with just a few years of lessons from a NUN!!!! no less, on my own, due to a gift, became an a very good keyboardist......


now; imagine if someone , hearing me, refused to believe that I didn't take higher level lessons and called me a liar???


you will see this in all things: there are always the exceptions in life...not a lot of them, but always some......

[Whey Hey]

Originally Posted by FitzChivalry

He blows Norton out of the water (no offense), imo. Look at the posing vids on-line. No comparison.

Also, Bobby Pandour is even more impressive than Sandow, imo.

Great physique for his era, but whats up with the sponge / untrimmed pubes lol.... did they not have underwear in his town?