8 Signs Your Workout Routine Sucks

[fatdaddy67]

Originally Posted by BRUTUSPLAC

10 ft 900 lbs, and no progress pics ?? or workoput videos ?

thats a honest profile page LOLOLOL

STEVE , what a shame when other get so jealous they are not as smart as you...........

WHAT is someone excuse for not posting workout videos when one claims ot deadlift 700 lbs ??

or bench 550 lbs ?? oh well ,,,,,,,LOLOL

Watch out or you'll lose your reps. The rep obsessed lurk.

2 years of adding to the community can be repped to neg 2000 in an instant.

[fatdaddy67]

Originally Posted by rbtrout

I don't know who posted that most people don't put on 20-25 pounds of muscle in a life time, but holy smokes, either you don't know how to train and eat or something.
I'm 6' tall and I started at 125. I'm now 255 - 46 years old. I'm bigger and stronger than I've ever been. I GUARANTEE that the 130 pounds I've put on is mostly muscle. Even if it was only 50% muscle, that's still 65 pounds. It can be done.

It's not natural or you're lying. There has never been a natural that has gained that much muscle. By the way, you don't seem to have any profile pics up. With your size, you should be equal to Arnold.

Let us see the natural wonder...

http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

Time to call in Casey Butt.

[blastertech70]

Originally Posted by Nick1971

I don't think anyone is denying that Squats and Deadlifts are good exercises. I think the debate is whether or not they are required to build muscle. If you can work all the same muscle groups without doing those two exercises, you can still gain muscular size and strength. You might do a few more exercises to work those muscles than you would with Squats and Deadlifts, but even those two basic compound exercises won't maximally work all muscle groups.

That's the whole reason many bodybuilders do Squats, Deadlifts and other exercises - including isolations - they want to work all the musculature in many ranges. I don't think that means that Squats and Deadlifts are required for everyone.

It's completely possible to get bigger and stronger without Deads and Squats. Just like it's possible to do the same with them and not other exercises.

The reason why Squats and Deadlifts are popular is not because they somehow make your body produce more testosterone and other "bro-science" - it's because they are efficient exercises that have a lot of bang for your buck. It's because of that they are Olympic lifts - they show a lot of strength in one movement. Let's look at them for what they are - not for what they aren't.

probably the best/acurate post in the thread.

[Al Swearengen]

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen

......

Originally Posted by fatdaddy67

Al ...

You quoted me in another thread as saying, "you will never gain any serious mass without squats or deads, it's close to impossible."

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...&postcount=136

That is not my exact quote. Can I ask why you misquoted me?

I understand if you have a problem with my article, but I don't understand why you feel the need to misrepresent what I said...

What I did ask was this..."Is it possible to max your genetics without squat and deadlift?"

It was a question, not a declaration. And despite how you or I would answer that question, misquoting me is a low blow.

Originally Posted by fatdaddy67

You are misquoting me. I said it is possible to gain upwards of 20 pounds of mass, naturally. That is an impressive gain, and looks good on a physique. If you are going to slam me, please quote me accurately. Not doing so tells me you have an agenda.

I did say that it is darn near impossible to get truly massive naturally without those 2 lifts, and I stand by that statement. Genetic freaks aside.

And, of course, there are folks who can't do certain exercises because of injuries. But if their shoulders (or whatever) are so sporked that they can't deadlift or squat, they probably can't do much else. So gaining mass is virtually a non-issue.

Originally Posted by fatdaddy67

It's not natural or you're lying. There has never been a natural that has gained that much muscle. By the way, you don't seem to have any profile pics up. With your size, you should be equal to Arnold.

Let us see the natural wonder...

http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

Time to call in Casey Butt.

well i showed you your own words that match almost word for word what i quoted you as saying and now you have nothing to add?














a lot of people in this thread have completely missed the boat on my and others original question as to where fatdaddy67 can come up with any inkling of wisdom that in his exact words "I did say that it is darn near impossible to get truly massive naturally without those 2 lifts (squats and deads), and I stand by that statement. Genetic freaks aside."

this whole question i posted had nothing to do with compound exercises or working legs in general and was only derived from his backing this article and saying you wont get very huge without squats or deads and i called bull **** on that and nothing else. he also claims they are "magic lifts" and i call bull **** to that also. i think he has little to no experience in building mass and is just another newb speaking from his anus.

every time i post fact based pics of people who have obviously built a lot of mass without squats and deads he claims it's all due to steroids and that should tell anyone with any long term experience in building and working your ass off in the gym, that he is a retard because roids don't build 100lbs of mass on anyone that couldn't build 75lbs without them.

[rbtrout]

[QUOTE=fatdaddy67;252368341]It's not natural or you're lying. There has never been a natural that has gained that much muscle. By the way, you don't seem to have any profile pics up. With your size, you should be equal to Arnold.[QUOTE]

It's natural and I'm not lying. Just because YOU can't put on that much doesn't mean no one else can't, either. I've been training for years.....probably more than most on this site. If you're talking no one can do it "unassisted (aas)" in under 6 months, then, yes, I agree. But just to say a blanket statement like that is ridiculous.

Maybe there's a reason that you get the negative rep points - attitude? Just a guess.

[Al Swearengen]

Originally Posted by BRUTUSPLAC

10 ft 900 lbs, and no progress pics ?? or workoput videos ?

thats a honest profile page LOLOLOL

STEVE , what a shame when other get so jealous they are not as smart as you...........

WHAT is someone excuse for not posting workout videos when one claims ot deadlift 700 lbs ??

or bench 550 lbs ?? oh well ,,,,,,,LOLOL

i've been busy getting back to dead lifting and squatting with this in my neck, what have you been over coming?

[rbtrout]

Dude, that's not good stuff. Take it slow and be careful.

8 Signs Your Workout Routine Sucks -
You tell people here how they can't put on 20 pounds of muscle because he can't do it.

[Al Swearengen]

Originally Posted by rbtrout

Dude, that's not good stuff. Take it slow and be careful.

8 Signs Your Workout Routine Sucks -
You tell people here how they can't put on 20 pounds of muscle because he can't do it.

you're telling me, i got that after 5 months of shoulder rehab post supraspinatus tear surgery in December last year. just got back into moving decent weight and boom the disc bulge from hell showed up, that was in April and i'm back to trap deading 210x12 and squatting 190x10 and continue to heal.

i lost a lot of size the last few years due to many lingering injuries but im finally back to 10% health and feeling good.

[Darkmind]

[QUOTE=rbtrout;252402141][QUOTE=fatdaddy67;252368341]It's not natural or you're lying. There has never been a natural that has gained that much muscle. By the way, you don't seem to have any profile pics up. With your size, you should be equal to Arnold.

It's natural and I'm not lying. Just because YOU can't put on that much doesn't mean no one else can't, either. I've been training for years.....probably more than most on this site. If you're talking no one can do it "unassisted (aas)" in under 6 months, then, yes, I agree. But just to say a blanket statement like that is ridiculous.

Maybe there's a reason that you get the negative rep points - attitude? Just a guess.

IMO you all are blowing this WAY out of proportion, fatdaddy, and the people attacking him. Try to see other points of views.

1. In one sense of the word if you don't do leg exercises at all and just do upper body, then yeah you'll have a huge upper body and a twig lower body, so of course you're not gonna be anywhere near your natural genetic limitation because your legs are still lagging, and yes your upper body might not be at its full potential because of adaptation purposes. I'm sorry but those wheelchair people don't really count so much IMO. They're paralyzed, so their bodies will notice that and adapt accordingly and they can still get huge upper bodies. If anyone cares to explain I'm wrong on that front, please tell me . My reasoning is.. Example.. person who's blind has the other 4 senses at a higher level. I also believe those guys aren't on roids either, It's possible to get that big without roids (or squats and deadlifts).

2. Squats and deadlifts do help with building more mass and building strength all around since... well read my post I think it's on page 4 I'm not gonna do it again.

3. That whole natural weight limitation prediction article is complete BS. I know I can get bigger. I'm 6 foot, and weigh 175lbs now and I'm kinda small and weak (compared to some people here) and not even close to fat. I know I can add AT LEAST another 50lbs on my frame, 35-40lbs of muscle, even though the calculator says my limitation will be 203lbs at 10% bodyfat. I have a 7in wrist and 9in ankle.

4. Squats and deadlifts aren't a magical exercise, it's just body mechanics on hormone signals sent and production. They do a lot more than a leg press though that's for sure. Some guy might be able to leg press 800lbs, but I care more about how much he can put on his back and squat it.

[kingeric]

20-25 pounds of muscle in a life time

I've gained 55 lbs over the last 20 months, and while I will need to cut at some point, it's definitely not all fat. I'm currently 6'2" and 210 lbs. I don't think the 20-25 lbs of muscle gain in a lifetime is true.

But this argument about squats and deadlifts is kind of silly. I agree with both sentiments, as both are great exercises for building your core strength, but you can also get big without them. It seems like an argument of semantics at this point.

I'm not sure about the growth signals, as I've never heard that before, but for the most part I agree with the original 8 points. I guess everyone has their own experiences...

[Librarygorilla]

Originally Posted by kingeric

I've gained 55 lbs over the last 20 months, and while I will need to cut at some point, it's definitely not all fat. I'm currently 6'2" and 210 lbs. I don't think the 20-25 lbs of muscle gain in a lifetime is true.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't say that 20 - 25 pounds is any kind of limit.

For one thing, it specifically mention that Reg Park was 38 - 41 pounds heavier than average for his height, even taking into account the increase in bodyfat to keep the percentage the same, that would imply a 35 pound game.

It's been my observation, both in real life and reading about lifters and bodybuilders, that the people who make the largest gains in muscle (which is not to say they end with the largest muscles) are people who are underweight to begin with.

Which is to say that I've seen a lot more dudes who weighed 130 get up to 180 lean than I've seen 180 pounders get to 230 lean. Which is not to say that it can't be done, to forstall a stupid argument, just that it seems to be more common to go from underweight to normalish than from normal to huge.

As far as muscle gains go in regard to what Butts is saying, it appears that he's comparing lean bodybuilders to normal people, which would hide some of the muscle gain, because average people aren't ten percent bodyfat.

So if a bodybuilder is 205 and 10% bodyfat and average size for his height and structure is 175 and 15% then the bodybuilder doesn't have 30 pounds more muscle - it's more like 37 pounds.

I would wager that the vast majority of people who lift don't ever gain twenty pounds of muscle, but that's not the same as can't.

[martymcfly]

Originally Posted by fatdaddy67

5. Advanced Training Techniques. Forget negative reps, super sets, giant sets, super slow-mo reps, rest pause sets, partial reps, pre-exhaustion, drops sets, and burns. None of these techniques matter at all if you don't have your weight lifting act together. Stop pretending that negative rep bench presses with 135 on the bar is going to turn you into a monster. Stop dreaming that a rest-paused giant set of quarter hack squats is going to turn you into Tom Platz. And for the love of all things right and just, stop pretending that holding your arms out to your side for 10 seconds while performing side laterals makes any difference. I can hold my arms over my head for 30 seconds and feel a burn. Go back to the basics; head back to the land of simplicity.

this one needs some work. you bashed tons of decent/good/GREAT methods... without providing one that is "optimal" in your opinion. no offense, but a lot of those are GREAT. guess you've never heard of dorian yates,DC training, or Dave Draper. those 3 come to mind when i read the techniques you "bashed". i like your list, but this... I'm sorry I have to disagree with.

[manwithav8]

Originally Posted by DavisForman

I know its not bodyweight. I put on 31 punds of bodyweight, very little of which was fat. So yes, I did gain that much muscle.

You've never seen gains as what I have said have you? I tell you right now it was no miracle. It was me working my ass off harder than you can imagine. I started taking protein powder which I had never done before, I started piling on the food until I was eating as much as a horse, and I made sure that I always slept a minimum of 8 hours a night.

All these things gave me those results that you see. And I am still gaining weight. Weighed in yesterday at 156.

People like you say what I did was impossible because you will never be able to do it yourself, because you don't have it in you. People say they train hard. They have no idea what it means to train hard. I see guys in my gym who take like 5 minutes between sets. And they say they train hard. I see guys doing curls who swing there body for EVERY rep, and they say they train hard. I see whimps unable to have a spotter help them pump out a couple more reps because they can't take the burn, and they say they train hard.

I train harder than anybody I know, I eat more than anyone under 200lbs I know, and I always get my 8 hours of sleep. That is why I made those gains.

Its no miracle, and it is definately not BS.

I should respect my elders? I will when they earn my respect.

Maybe you should start respecting your superiors.

OK, I don't have Rep on this site, I haven't posted much or even been here for that long but that is the biggest pig headed post I have ever read..

I couldn't give a **** about what you have done or haven't done, ups to you if what you claim is true... You come across and nothing but a spoilt little ****. Mr I have done this and I am all that, your 18 you pimply face little twirp, how dare you speak to anyone on this board in that fashion. I may get banned but speaking my mind about you is bloody worth every last word. You need to find some respect my friend, as I said yoru 18, you have no life experience and don't even start the whole " you don't know me" bull**** cos I ain't gonna hear it.

Your talking to people twice your age as though they are inferior to you, where the hell do you get off.

Nobody here NEED's to earn you respect, it is something you need to earn from your elders, the people on this site that will help you when your gains stop and you have no answers..

I have no problem with people standing up for what they believe and what they have achieved but you have come across as more than an ass, I suggest you go back outside and check yourself at the door little man!!!

red rep me I don't care and I do apologise to those in this forum if your upset or offended by my post, I think it needed to be said..

Gidday from New Zealand by the way, this is my second post on this site...

Carry on thank you.

[Gator87]

Originally Posted by fatdaddy67

A tool?

I wasn't putting down your picture. I was simply stating that your lean body mass looks to be about 165. Please re-read my post.

I didn't say you look like crap. I didn't say you look like a wuss. I said your lean mass looks to be around 165, which means, you haven't gained 20 pounds of lean mass over the course of your life.

Real world results? I'm as clean as a white sheet. No juice for me. Neg me all you want. I don't get involved with "name-calling" BS.

On one hand you state it is possible to gain a lot of mass without squats and deadlifts, but on the other hand you haven't gained a lot without them. Am I missing anything?

Are you daft, or do you actually have the psychic ability to guess his height, bodyweight, and LBM just from a seated, fully clothed picture??? And how the hell do you figure that he has only put on 20 pounds of LBM in his lifetime? Are you suggesting that he was BORN at a ripped 145? Because that would be an amazing feat...for his mother's vagina.

[VVSKing]

nice--repped

[fatdaddy67]

Originally Posted by VVSKing

nice--repped

Thanks. Rep back.

I've been trying to rep everyone back, but I'm out of reps for the day. I repped you back though.

Funny how the rep system goes...I am getting 15 positive reps for every neg on this post, but my rep is now for crap. I don't follow or pretend to understand the rep system.

[fatdaddy67]

Originally Posted by Gator87

Are you daft, or do you actually have the psychic ability to guess his height, bodyweight, and LBM just from a seated, fully clothed picture??? And how the hell do you figure that he has only put on 20 pounds of LBM in his lifetime? Are you suggesting that he was BORN at a ripped 145? Because that would be an amazing feat...for his mother's vagina.

Before I respond, let me say that this is my last word on the subject of natural potential. If you think that what I am posting below is bunk, then no further debate will further this conversation.

But if you feel the need to hash it out with me more, you can come and spam me here...

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forum/

Gator, read this article about natural potential...

http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

It is somewhat scientific, but explains a lot. I am not talking about how many overall pounds of muscle in his body. I am talking muscle gain from a normalized, adult, post-pubescent state.

I am talking about...how many natural pounds it is possible to gain from lifting weights.

As far as being psychic, I can guess that his bodyfat is around 15-18. I have taken enough skinfold tests to see that there is some fat in key areas. Usually men have the most store of fat around the gut, so his fat might be a little higher or lower, give or take a couple of percentage points. I would say, most likely, he is around 18%. And I might be generous. If you look closely at the larger version picture, it appears that it is possible he has some gut fat. There appears to be a slight roll below the graphic on his t-shirt. So his BF% might be 20, but I will give him 18%.

Also, check out the below link. The average weight for a 45 year old male is 190. The image below reveals an average looking male. With a tad more muscle than normal, but also shorter than normal.

http://www.halls.md/chart/men-weight-w.htm

He also looks shorter than normal, maybe 5'8" - 5'10". Surely from his bone structure you can't say that he is 6'2", 6'4" or 5'4"...

Bodyweight wise, it is easy to tell from the picture that he is not 220 pounds, nor is he 160. I would guess that he is around 190, and maybe a little less depending on his height.

So, we have about...

18% bodyfat
190 pounds
5'8" - 5'9"

Thats 155.8 lean mass. I gave him much more @ 165. So I provided for the possibility that he is much leaner and much heavier than he looks, which probably isn't the case.

On an average, once an adult male reaches post-pubescence (assuming he is not in a state of nutrient deficiency), it is very hard to gain more than 25 pounds of lean muscle from weight lifting. The top natural lifters in the sport support this reality. A top tier NATURAL bodybuilder can hit over a 30 pound lean mass gain...

http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

At 25, generally a normalized post-pubescent state, he would weigh on average 165-168. Again, check the link below...

http://www.halls.md/chart/men-weight-w.htm

So, if a male (like the one below) weighed 165 @ age 25 and then started lifting weights and hit 190 pounds, like the poster, here is what we have. From the chart you can see that age 25 is the low average for normalized weight in white males.

AGE 25...165 pounds, 18% bodyfat. LEAN MASS = 135.3 pounds.
AGE 45...190 pounds, 18% bodyfat. LEAN MASS = 155.8 pounds.

That's a 20.5 pound gain from lifting. That is right in line with what I have been saying. Most average (non-gifted) lifters never gain over 30 pounds of lean muscle mass. Excluding the nutrient deficient, which he most likely was not. The poster DavisForman might have been. He was VERY under normal weight.

AGAIN, read this link...

http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

One of the largest natural bodybuilders of all time, Reg Park, only had 38-41 more pounds of muscle than the average. And he is a genetic freak.

So, I stand firmly behind the reality that a normalized, non-nutrient deficient, post-pubescent male who lifts naturally will have a bitch of a time gaining more than 30 pounds of muscle.

[BlackLabelMafia]

Originally Posted by manwithav8

Nobody here NEED's to earn you respect

Agree

Originally Posted by manwithav8

it is something you need to earn from your elders

Disagree


I think the idea that age is an indicator of respect is ridiculous. I'm 28 and there are people on this sight far younger than me that know far more. Respect should be given despite age, not because of it. This is supposed to be a discussion sight, not cyber-fight club. I'm not bashing you and I thought forman's post was pretty stupid, too. But it was stupid because it was stupid, not because he was younger than the guy he was posting to.

[DavisForman]

Originally Posted by fatdaddy67

So, I stand firmly behind the reality that a normalized, non-nutrient deficient, post-pubescent male who lifts naturally will have a bitch of a time gaining more than 30 pounds of muscle.

Now its 30lbs? I thought it was 20-25? You seem to be increasing the limit.

Originally Posted by manwithav8

OK, I don't have Rep on this site, I haven't posted much or even been here for that long but that is the biggest pig headed post I have ever read..

I couldn't give a **** about what you have done or haven't done, ups to you if what you claim is true... You come across and nothing but a spoilt little ****. Mr I have done this and I am all that, your 18 you pimply face little twirp, how dare you speak to anyone on this board in that fashion. I may get banned but speaking my mind about you is bloody worth every last word. You need to find some respect my friend, as I said yoru 18, you have no life experience and don't even start the whole " you don't know me" bull**** cos I ain't gonna hear it.

Your talking to people twice your age as though they are inferior to you, where the hell do you get off.

Nobody here NEED's to earn you respect, it is something you need to earn from your elders, the people on this site that will help you when your gains stop and you have no answers..

I have no problem with people standing up for what they believe and what they have achieved but you have come across as more than an ass, I suggest you go back outside and check yourself at the door little man!!!

red rep me I don't care and I do apologise to those in this forum if your upset or offended by my post, I think it needed to be said..

Gidday from New Zealand by the way, this is my second post on this site...

Carry on thank you.

omg. Hold up please. Did u even read my following post? That post had nothing to do with me being all that. IM NOT! Im 154lbs at 5'9". I would get laughed at on stage right now. I totally acknowledge that. I have a lot to learn, I admit that too. I don't know more than you guys do, I never said that.

Everyone needs to cool down for a second. Read what I have to say please. This thread started out as a guy telling everyone that deadlifts and squats were magical lifts, and one could not get enormous without them. I never said that they wern't great lifts. They are. I agree you won't get as big without them, but you can still get big. I (as well as many others on here) strongly disagree with some of his statement. So, to give prove that his statement wasn't totally accurate, I posted my own gains in the last little while.

Those gains surpassed the limits he said one has if they don't do deadlift or squats. And then I get attacked about how my gains are impossible and that I am a liar. I don't like being called a liar. So I stood up for my gains. If I came accross as an *******, then again, I apologize, I was a little angry and I didn't really think as to what I was typing.

Again, I have to say this. This discussion is blown way out of proportions. NO ONE ON HERE IS SAYING THAT DEADLIFTS AND SQUATS ARN'T ESSENTIAL EXERCISES! We are simply disagreeing that they are "magical" and that you can't make good gains without them.

[DavisForman]

Originally Posted by Gator87

Are you daft, or do you actually have the psychic ability to guess his height, bodyweight, and LBM just from a seated, fully clothed picture??? And how the hell do you figure that he has only put on 20 pounds of LBM in his lifetime? Are you suggesting that he was BORN at a ripped 145? Because that would be an amazing feat...for his mother's vagina.

Agreed. Nice post.

[Orlando1234977]

Sorry fatdaddy, but there's no magical formulas to predict how much potential one can gain. And how much gym experience do you have?
People in the gym, football players gaining in the off season, online journals with videos etc etc , 20-30 pounds is thought of as initial NEWBIE gains, not max genetic potential.

One of the most respected trainers that visits this site (Iron Addicts) has a post somewhere that says if everything is line potential might be roughly:
year 1 35 pounds
years 2 15 pounds
year 3 10 pounds

Rough estimates of course but this is from training thousands of clients and is extremely close to what I personally gained my first three years of lifting.

And btw, I believe the context of his statement was to show that it takes time, gains don't come overnight, but it surely shows 20-30 isn't most people's genetic max.

[hey_papi85]

Originally Posted by Orlando1234977

Sorry fatdaddy, but there's no magical formulas to predict how much potential one can gain. And how much gym experience do you have?
People in the gym, football players gaining in the off season, online journals with videos etc etc , 20-30 pounds is thought of as initial NEWBIE gains, not max genetic potential.

One of the most respected trainers that visits this site (Iron Addicts) has a post somewhere that says if everything is line potential might be roughly:
year 1 35 pounds
years 2 15 pounds
year 3 10 pounds

Rough estimates of course but this is from training thousands of clients and is extremely close to what I personally gained my first three years of lifting.

And btw, I believe the context of his statement was to show that it takes time, gains don't come overnight, but it surely shows 20-30 isn't most people's genetic max.

Agree. I've gained 20lbs of pretty much LBM in 6 months. BUT I did increase my squat by 155lbs and dead by 195lbs in that time.

[import619]

Originally Posted by Pull-Up

That's true, but anyway i see many people on my gym that haven't ever done deadlift or squat or even legs and they are very big and muscular...

yeah that's another real world feedback!

[import619]

Originally Posted by Donkeyno9

I agree. I'm using a full body, EOD, 1 set of 7 different exercises program. The old school 20 rep squat program. Inducing hypoxemia via heavy compound lifts encourages Your body to release GH.Routines lasting less than 1 hour help prevent testosterone levels from droping. Squats+milk are some time tested old school stuff that works.

is that why you look soft?

[ThickAsABrick]

This thread hurts my brain.

[Al Swearengen]

Originally Posted by ThickAsABrick

This thread hurts my brain.

that's a sure sign you're reading a magical thread.

[Marini48]

Great post, repd

[DavisForman]

Originally Posted by Marini48

Great post, repd

I hope your not talking about the original post.

[thailegacy]

Originally Posted by DavisForman

I hope your not talking about the original post.

yep the first post is awsome, i hear alot of ppl that wanna get big and r to scared to lose their 6 pack **** i had an 8 pack but i didnt wanna be 150 pounds, all of the tips on there were great..

if u wanna get big start deadlifting and squatting forget about bicep curls for a while, then when ur big enough u can go and do what bb do, work alot of isolation to shape up those muscles, its common sense.

[Iron Rain]

lol, entertaining thread.

I'm not so sure I believe that genetic potential page. It's flawed, at best - my own father-in-law was over his supposed potential after graduating CHP officer training academy twentysomething years ago (5'10, 208, 3% bodyfat) but I will admit that he does have FREAKISH genes (100 percent german, about 1.5 times wider than I am). the only person who's ever been able to push him and knock him off his feet, is his seventeen year old daughter (my sis in law), who got his muscle genes.

Anyways, squats and deadlifts, and stuff. Yeah, it's possible to make real nice gains without them, but without squats and/or deadlifts, you're usually not going to make gains as fast as you could otherwise. My best gaining run so far is 20 lbs in 5 weeks, on 20-rep squats mixed with olympic lifting. At least 15 pounds of that being lean muscle (not tested, but even though my waist sized decreased, I could tell I gained a little bit of bodyfat). But in doing this, I got stronger in absolutely every lift I did, including lifts I didn't train (bench, chin ups, curls, military press)

I look at lifting like I look at dinner: Squats and deadlifts (and olympic stuff for those who do them) are the main course, other compounds (bench, chin ups, shoulder press etc) are the side dish, and isolation movements (curls, lateral raises, hammy curls, etc) are the spices. Mix them in at about the same ratio as you would mix the three components of a great dinner, and you/re set.


__________________
http://germanvolumetraining.blogspot.com
All about German Volume Training AKA Ten Sets Method[/QUOTE]