**NOVEDEX XT- Let's talk about it**

[px1138]

Originally Posted by svper2002

Answer my fricken question how come you can increase testosterone to 600% but not get an estrogen rebound it makes no fricken sense. I see the week 11 studies thats great what about past that

The theory of the posters in the thread I just linked: "Because testosterone didn't really increase 600%? Just a compound similar to test increased 500% and it showed up and skewed the test results."

[svper2002]

Originally Posted by px1138

The theory of the posters in the thread I just linked: "Because testosterone didn't really increase 600%? Just a compound similar to test increased 500% and it showed up and skewed the test results."

Ya i read the post it was a good one with the ATD piggybacking onto antibodies. Still without this study I just want to know what the thinking is behind you can increase your T levels by say 5 to 6 times and have no estrogen rebound or any negative effects other than if you take too high of a dose it you lose libido, joint pain, and possibility of losing hair. It just confuses me and I want to see some rep explain and show a study of the lifters at 14 weeks not at 11 etc

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by px1138

The theory of the posters in the thread I just linked: "Because testosterone didn't really increase 600%? Just a compound similar to test increased 500% and it showed up and skewed the test results."

This has been addressed. If you think for one second that I oe anyone else will take someone joins a forum to specifically bring up that point seriously you are out of your mind. Just put your company affiliation in your signature and spare me the drama. This is just a lame attempt to discredit the number one clinically proven AND selling testosterone booster in the world.

Originally Posted by Deserusan

1. Novedex XT contains two AI's being ATD and the other 3-OHAT. ATD has a short plasma half life of about 4 minutes. Since the dosing protocol required the 3-OHAT/ATD mixture to be taken before bed and then the subsequent blood tests were taken 12 hours later at the same standardized time it seems unlikely high levels of ATD were cross reacting to a significant degree.

Since everyone seems to be referencing the Donaldson et al study as basis for claiming this would cause such a ridiculous jump in test I actually read the study which clearly states "Although the degree of cross-reactivity between ATD and T is very small (0.09 %) it may become significant in relation to circulating T levels when large doses of the drug are used in vivo." Even at those high concentrations it skewed the rat T levels anywhere between 50-100X per Donaldson et al. Keep in mind also they were using 10mg intramuscular injections on a small mammal that has about 200 times less mass than an average weight male.

2. The metabolites of ATD are known. The Donaldson study ABSTRACT alludes to the fact that metabolites did interfere however the STUDY fails to mention what they are or if they interfered. It merely said "This was consistent withfurther data showing that most of the cross-reacting material was not ATD itself (which elutes before T) but a more polar compound or compounds (which elute(s) after T)." What these compounds are? I don't know and neither did they. They did not state the metabolites of ATD were responsible for this. Since the ATD metabolites are known this could easily be confirmed but has not to date.

3. Moving forward, numerous studies have shown ATD reduces estrogen and increases testosterone after the Donaldson et al 1980 study. However, none of the Novedex XT detractors EVER mention the use of 3-OHAT in the formula or in the study. It's glossed over for the mere fact that the results of the Willoughby et al clinical were great, but the Donaldson et al regarding RIA showed a potential cross reactivity. Does 3-OHAT cross react too? NO. Does 3-OHAT have AI properties? Yes. Does it's parent compound (AT) also boost test significantly yes? Does AT rapidly metobilize into 3-OHAT in vivo? YES.

4. To be sure when using RIA that there is no cross contamination, it's good to use celite column chromatography before RIA. Thin layer chromatography would work to according to Donaldson et al to properly seperate the T from ATD when using the 6IIA antibody which seemed to be causing the cross reaction. RIA wasn't used in either Novedex XT clinical study.

Originally Posted by svper2002

Ya i read the post it was a good one with the ATD piggybacking onto antibodies. Still without this study I just want to know what the thinking is behind you can increase your T levels by say 5 to 6 times and have no estrogen rebound or any negative effects other than if you take too high of a dose it you lose libido, joint pain, and possibility of losing hair. It just confuses me and I want to see some rep explain and show a study of the lifters at 14 weeks not at 11 etc

It's not a good one. It's been addressed numerous times. Now if you read your own post you will see Novedex XT is not without potential side effects which we are very open about and always have been. Also, how long are we supposed to run a study to satisfy you? How many companies are even running study on their products? Now our 11 week study should be 14? How did you come to that conclusion?

Also, I'm not some "rep before" you continue to take a ****ty tone here.

[px1138]

Sorry des, I missed that part. I read this thread a couple days ago and then saw the biotest thread and didn't re-read what was posted, thanks for bringing it to my attention. I feel like an idiot. I bought 2 bottles a weak ago and haven't bought Biotest since trying Androsol a long time ago.

I've been a part of bodybuilding forum communities all over for almost 10 years. I joined this site a few times but never really stuck around because the rep thing is gay as ****.

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by px1138

Sorry des, I missed that part. I read this thread a couple days ago and then saw the biotest thread and didn't re-read what was posted, thanks for bringing it to my attention. I feel like an idiot. I bought 2 bottles a weak ago and haven't bought Biotest since trying Androsol a long time ago.

I've been a part of bodybuilding forum communities all over for almost 10 years. I joined this site a few times but never really stuck around because the rep thing is gay as ****.

It's funny you bring up Biotest and their shill Bill Roberts loves to bash us.

[px1138]

Yah, I figured you thought I was BR or one of his cronies. Again, my apologies for not re-reading this thread today and missing your related comments. That's what I get for thinking for a second I discovered something "new" on the web.

[Bradakas]

I am currently finishing up a bottle of Novedex XT. As previously stated: I encountered all the positive benefits of increased muscle hardness, strength, ect.

Initially, I started 1 pill at night. However, after I gained some weight and got up to 200 pounds I then decided to increase the dosage to 2 pills.

This is when I KNEW the product worked at increasing TEST.

#1 I started to grow VISIBLE chest hair after a week. I previously only had fuzz. (Strong asian genetics)

#2 Drastically increased libido.

*The product worked PERIOD.

I'll be using the stoked and AX combo after finishing this bottle and taking a 4 week break.

[r1ppedup]

anyone heard of arimatest?
supposedly increases testosterone 10,000% and im sure it didnt when i took
so take a step back, and look at what there really basing these studies on, cause im not sure

[zachattack43]

Originally Posted by er1c43

anyone heard of arimatest?
supposedly increases testosterone 10,000% and im sure it didnt when i took
so take a step back, and look at what there really basing these studies on, cause im not sure

LOL, yea I should look at their references, but could care less as i am sure they are full of it.

[r1ppedup]

well im not saying arimatest is better by any means, it sucked for me
but i dont think any bottle really tells you the REAL increase

[Mr. Jeff]

Originally Posted by deserusan

Tell him to start with one. He could up the dose by doing a 1:2 dosing every other day. Odd days take one, and even days take two.

That sounds like a good idea... Though, it sounds like it could put me on a hormonal roller coaster. I'm feeling totally tempted to up it to 2 as I'm approaching week two. What would be better, 1:2; or go on 2 caps for a few weeks, taper back down to 1 cap and then get off? Why?

[Joezilla]

i just got a couple bottles, i was going to sart at 2 pills and MAYBE going up to 3. it was cheap enough that i was willing to give it a shot for myself.

[triplewhammy]

Originally Posted by deserusan

This has been addressed. If you think for one second that I oe anyone else will take someone joins a forum to specifically bring up that point seriously you are out of your mind. Just put your company affiliation in your signature and spare me the drama. This is just a lame attempt to discredit the number one clinically proven AND selling testosterone booster in the world.





It's not a good one. It's been addressed numerous times. Now if you read your own post you will see Novedex XT is not without potential side effects which we are very open about and always have been. Also, how long are we supposed to run a study to satisfy you? How many companies are even running study on their products? Now our 11 week study should be 14? How did you come to that conclusion?

Also, I'm not some "rep before" you continue to take a ****ty tone here.

HEY! What are you trying to say about being a rep?!


j/k carry on.




-triple

[Mr.B.illionaire]

Just bought my first bottle last week. Been taking two pills a night right before I got to sleep.

No bad dreams, no Decresed labido, slight increase in strength, slight decrease in body fat.

I will keep everyone posted on the rest of the bottle. But I'm happy with the results so far.


Any Gaspari reps help me out? I'm gonna do the 8 week cycle. How long should I wait till I start another cycle? 4 weeks?

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by Mr.B.illionaire

Just bought my first bottle last week. Been taking two pills a night right before I got to sleep.

No bad dreams, no Decresed labido, slight increase in strength, slight decrease in body fat.

I will keep everyone posted on the rest of the bottle. But I'm happy with the results so far.


Any Gaspari reps help me out? I'm gonna do the 8 week cycle. How long should I wait till I start another cycle? 4 weeks?

Time on = time off.

[kbf1981]

Originally Posted by Ulysses

I'm not making claims it works or doesn't. So what on earth would you discrediting exactly?

Still waiting on those Multiple Unsponsored Clinical trials that were claimed to back novedex..

Guess we won't be holding our breath.

How biased is it possible to be?

Studies on supplements don't exist because it's a tiny industry - they're not big pharma, they're an industry that 1% of the population ever buys anything from.

Personally, I used Novedex XT and thought it was excellent. Decent strength, definate leaning out. Money well spent!

[Mr.B.illionaire]

Originally Posted by deserusan

Time on = time off.

Thanks!

[|ceman]

Originally Posted by steelhorse1

on the fence on this one.. girlfrend is wary of some of the suppliment i take


[img]http://photo-shack.com/img/6e7b33fdea3adc80ebd648fffb665bb8.jpg[img]

The key here is to educate yourself fully on whatever you are planning on taking so not only are you sure about the benefits/risks but can also explain with confidence to your wife/girlfriend.

My wife had some of the same concerns about my supplements until I could fully explain all aspects of what I was taking and convince her that I had done the due diligence and proper research to make sure they were safe.

[madgoat33]

Originally Posted by svper2002

Answer my fricken question how come you can increase testosterone to 600% but not get an estrogen rebound it makes no fricken sense. I see the week 11 studies thats great what about past that

From reading up on ATD, it would seem that the 600% increase in testosterone has alot to do with ATD "mimicking" test so its actually not a true 600% increase in actual testosterone. It IS an AI, so it reduces estrogen levels, which is why some people use it as a PCT.

[bigjabjab]

Originally Posted by myeviltwin

At 19 I don't see you really benefiting from taking the product, but no worries, a little time off will restore any decrease you might experience as your estrogen levels normalize.

At what age would you start benefiting from a test booster? What's the average age when men's test levels start dropping significantly enough to warrant taking a test booster? I'm 28, I dunno I think my test levels are still pretty ok. But yeah some 19 year old kid taking a test booster seems pretty rediculous.

[zachattack43]

Originally Posted by bigjabjab

At what age would you start benefiting from a test booster? What's the average age when men's test levels start dropping significantly enough to warrant taking a test booster? I'm 28, I dunno I think my test levels are still pretty ok. But yeah some 19 year old kid taking a test booster seems pretty rediculous.

You sure, it says to the left you are 79? Which is it?

[bigjabjab]

uh huh

[zachattack43]

Originally Posted by bigjabjab

uh huh

Maybe you outta think about being honest here then.

[bigjabjab]

uhh uh huh

[simpleguy]

Originally Posted by bigjabjab

But yeah some 19 year old kid taking a test booster seems pretty rediculous.

test booster maybe, but not anti-estrogens - and novedex is just that

actually at that age testosterone (and estrogen) are pretty high so one could definitely benefit by lowering his estrogen...

[Mr. Jeff]

I just realized I got off a tribulus cycle a week prior to my Novedex cycle, is there any reason why I should be concerned?

[zachattack43]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jeff

I just realized I got off a tribulus cycle a week prior to my Novedex cycle, is there any reason why I should be concerned?

No, trib does NOT affect test levels, just mood and libido.

[Mr. Jeff]

Originally Posted by zachattack43

No, trib does NOT affect test levels, just mood and libido.

Just wanted to be sure, 'cause I know it affects my nut production.

[serega_ss]

... i use nolvedex xt for my PCT and it works great

[Schuh]

Novedex like every other supplement works differently for everyone, i am on it now and its my second week, and so is my buddy. Him; no gains, same lifts, he complains waste of money. Me; Huge strength gains, body fat down, 7 pounds up, vascularity threw the roof. Different for everyone, but for me will be a cycled staple for me. just my 2 cents.