Pre-contest Diet Fatloss Issues Help

[ultrawaves]

Im dieting for the 09 contra costa it will be my first contest.
im doing this as a natural although ive used aas before, been natural for about 10 months
my stats 5'10/186/ waist is 33 1/4 as of this mourning
i started cutting at 218 around 5 months ago

problem:bodyfat is not lowering at all...16.5 which is too high for as long as ive been dieting
what im eating.
6 boiled eggs a day.
200 grams of whey protein from shakes alone
3 chicken breast at about 21 grams of protein each breast
5 table spoons of all natural peanut butter
spead out through 6 meals and i only drink water
total protein a day: 270 to 300
carbs:25 to 30 grams at the most, from indirect sources of food mentioned above

my bodytype: 75%meso/25%endo...i was skinny my whole life up untill i turn 22 and i started to gain wieght easily..im 27yrs old

i eliminated spinach and brown rice from my diet last week which i was doing a half a cup a day of each
ive been runnin a ketone diet the last 5 days, and ive bout some ketone strip to measure how much fat i was losing, it says im losing just a small amout.

i work out 4 to 5 days a week

ive been really strict, not cheating,, barely even a cheat day a week.
im taking meltdown fatburner pills to keep my energy up, though my lifts have dropped
not doing any cardio.
contest is in MAY/09 , I'm just doing a pre diet before i bulk again so i can see how im body reacts to certain changes with food intake but nothing is working

[ultrawaves]

bump for help

[scoobysnacks]

double post

[scoobysnacks]

looks like a keto diet are you a) taking the carb up day once every 7 days and b) doing your LIT cardio each morning and pwo?

That said I dont like the keto diet, I think you stalled your metabolism out Id starve on that diet and Im no where near 218 when I start for a show.

I start 40/40/20 maybe even 30/55/15 16 weeks out and decrease as I get near my carbs.

But, your diet is too restrictive.

Its also possible you think its only 25-30 carbs and you are getting more which isnt even allowing you into ketosis.

I just dont like the whole keto thing I dont think its necessary.

Id have you at around 235P/225C/45fats and doing cardio twice daily morning and pwo LIT sessions and 3 x per week on non trainin days hitting the HIIT. You would tighten right up. Based these numbers on the 155 lbm you seem to be reporting, 185 at 16.5%. Lastly, on non training days drop carbs to 200.

But you need to find your own way I can only throw suggestions out to you.

Good Luck

[ultrawaves]

thanks for responding, i know i should look better then what i do now but im trying to get things right so when i do my real precontest diet i would be on point.

when i used aas for my last diet i cut from 210 to 186 and my bodyfat was 8%. i know when you do things naturally its harder but i didnt image it would make this big of a difference when it came to cutting. im that same weight now naturally and my bodyfat is double that, but my diet this time around has been much more strict due to the fact that i am natural.

you mentioned that i might not be in a ketonic state and that i might be taking in two much carbs.....but all my carbs are from indirect sources, like whey protein and peanut butter have at least some carbs in them, i would try to completely cut them out but its seems like everything else would suffer im limited on what i can eat.

im stopping this diet mid november so i have alittle time to get this right before i bulk up for 2months and prepare for my real diet.

any more suggestion would really help

[cantelmi]

Originally Posted by scoobysnacks

looks like a keto diet are you a) taking the carb up day once every 7 days and b) doing your LIT cardio each morning and pwo?

That said I dont like the keto diet, I think you stalled your metabolism out Id starve on that diet and Im no where near 218 when I start for a show.

I start 40/40/20 maybe even 30/55/15 16 weeks out and decrease as I get near my carbs.

But, your diet is too restrictive.

Its also possible you think its only 25-30 carbs and you are getting more which isnt even allowing you into ketosis.

I just dont like the whole keto thing I dont think its necessary.

Id have you at around 235P/225C/45fats and doing cardio twice daily morning and pwo LIT sessions and 3 x per week on non trainin days hitting the HIIT. You would tighten right up. Based these numbers on the 155 lbm you seem to be reporting, 185 at 16.5%. Lastly, on non training days drop carbs to 200.

But you need to find your own way I can only throw suggestions out to you.

Good Luck

Repped dude thats alot of good info there for free!

[Cape1]

To the OP. Before you start changing your diet/program too much, I would get blood work done if you haven't already. I know you said your AAS experience was 10 months ago.BUT, depending on what you took, how long you took it and what your recovery was like, you inability to loose fat might be more a hormonal issue. If that's the case, dropping your calories, essepcially your carbs, too low could be making matters worse. Just food for thought. If this is the case, your30 grams a day of carbs are not helping you.

[scoobysnacks]

Originally Posted by ultrawaves

thanks for responding, i know i should look better then what i do now but im trying to get things right so when i do my real precontest diet i would be on point.

when i used aas for my last diet i cut from 210 to 186 and my bodyfat was 8%. i know when you do things naturally its harder but i didnt image it would make this big of a difference when it came to cutting. im that same weight now naturally and my bodyfat is double that, but my diet this time around has been much more strict due to the fact that i am natural.

you mentioned that i might not be in a ketonic state and that i might be taking in two much carbs.....but all my carbs are from indirect sources, like whey protein and peanut butter have at least some carbs in them, i would try to completely cut them out but its seems like everything else would suffer im limited on what i can eat.

im stopping this diet mid november so i have alittle time to get this right before i bulk up for 2months and prepare for my real diet.

any more suggestion would really help

I think you missed the point of my post. I didnt say cut out more carb, Im actually saying your diet isnt good and its just possible you arent going into ketosis. If it were me with the control over your prep Id have you eat high calories for one week to reset then cut you to the macros I gave you. Your metabolism is gone.

I have found guys on AAS can eat way more protien than a natural and still lena out on a low carb diet. You put a natural on WAY to much protein and low carbs and they stall out more than likely.

Your diet is very high protein no carbs and you didnt even say if you are doing the carb ups for the keto diet.

My point is its not the lack of AAS its your diet, period. Screw AAS it doesnt make you a bodybuilder and I can get plenty lean without it, but I employ a balanced diet which you arent. I then rely on hardcore training and cardio dial me in with small adjustments downward in carb intake as the diet progresses. Very rarely do I manipulate protein or fats those stay constant and I just drop carbs.

Anyways...

[ultrawaves]

thanks for your response, actually ive taken some of your advise and incorporated it into my routine. ive been doing cardio for the last 4 days 30 to 45 minute session

ive also include a type of HIT training it the form of drop sets starting as heavy as i could possibly go.

results: just from the last couple of day of adding some of your suggestions into my diet ive went from on 185 to 182, my waist has gone from 33 1/2 to 32 3/4, my abs have not come in yet by there slightly starting to show,
i'm still on a keto diet ive just added more food,

my breakfast consist of protein shake:25 grams of protein
4 slices of bacon
4 scrambled eggs
i eat at least another 6 boiled eggs throughout the day
i also eat all natural peanut butter throughout the day
im going to start adding in green vetables again after suspending them last week in the forum of spinach and squash.
i also wanna start eating beef again.

if you have any more suggestions feel free to respond.
ive been all natural im not even taking creatine or NO2 just protein and food

[ultrawaves]

in response to the other poster, ive never had problems bouncing back from an AAS cycle. ive had a child since my last cycle, no libido issue or depression or energy loss in that regards, i work three jobs and i workout at 2am in the mourning so yes, im just fine

[FATHER FLEX]

Originally Posted by scoobysnacks

I think you missed the point of my post. I didnt say cut out more carb, Im actually saying your diet isnt good and its just possible you arent going into ketosis. If it were me with the control over your prep Id have you eat high calories for one week to reset then cut you to the macros I gave you. Your metabolism is gone.

I have found guys on AAS can eat way more protien than a natural and still lena out on a low carb diet. You put a natural on WAY to much protein and low carbs and they stall out more than likely.

Your diet is very high protein no carbs and you didnt even say if you are doing the carb ups for the keto diet.

My point is its not the lack of AAS its your diet, period. Screw AAS it doesnt make you a bodybuilder and I can get plenty lean without it, but I employ a balanced diet which you arent. I then rely on hardcore training and cardio dial me in with small adjustments downward in carb intake as the diet progresses. Very rarely do I manipulate protein or fats those stay constant and I just drop carbs.

Anyways...

You have more than gone out your way bro.

[scoobysnacks]

Originally Posted by FATHER FLEX

You have more than gone out your way bro.

Thanks FF

[Joe Go]

You should update your profile with pictures five months ago to now. That would give us a good base to figure out how you are dropping the weight.

I would need to see your diet in more detail to figure out what is stalling you. Look in my blog area for my current diet which is similar to the one you are doing now. Maybe you can pick up some idea's off of my food program. I had a blood test a few weeks ago and passed without any problems. I've lost 4 pounds so far, but my pictures show more.

[Joe Go]

Last thing, it took my body about 1.5 months to convert to my current food program. You might need to give your diet a little more time, but I can see trouble with what you are doing currently. Things like working three jobs, newborn, fat burners, and 200 grams from protein shakes. All these things are raising havoc on your body and giving you erratic results.

[ultrawaves]

first off i wanna say i thank you for all your responses, im not hard headed im listening to all your replies carefully.

i will be taking pics and posting them sometime next week.

its been about a week since i first made this post. i have taken some pictures, and have examined them. and their not good! my most muscular pose is my best pose, the most difficult thing to accept now is how much muscle ive lost, i was 218 in june, ive failed, the good thing is i can put on muscle very easily and when i bulk up for 2 months i'll be able to add at least 15 pounds solid.

but i will not bulk up untill i get this diet situation straightened out.

ive been doing HIT Training, and cardio at least everyother day, when i woke up this mourning my waist was at 32 inches but no abs, at 180 there starting to show but man my muscles are alittle flat, but when i trained tonight i saw separation, and some improved density..and my muscles seem to "pop" when i flexed.

as far as eating im going to start adding some green veggies, ive added beef already. any suggestions would help

[ultrawaves]

my eating as of right now

meal 1:3 eggs breakfast with 4 slices of bacon an 24grams whey shake

meal 2:1spoon peanut butter/50gram whey shake/boiled egg

meal 3:chicken breast/ 50gram whey protein shake

meal 4:beef patty/ 50 gram protein shake/boiled egg

meal 5: 2 boiled eggs/2tsp peanutbutter/24grams whey shake

meal 6:chicken breast/beef patty/24 gram whey shake

this pretty much my diet in detail.

will start adding green veggies soon, and suggestion on what to add or take out speak your voice.

[ultrawaves]

my workout

with the except of chest cause i lift heavy dumbells its hard to drop set, along with dumbell shoulder presses

aside from that, i do dropset, going to failure but i drop the weight and immediately continue with the lowered weight untill failure, then i drop down the weight and continue with a lowered weight untill failure

so 1 set equals: 3 dropset to failure in 10 pound incrubments. for all bodypart beside the ones mentioned above. and leggs
thats the forum of HIT Training im doing

[Joe Go]

Originally Posted by ultrawaves

my eating as of right now

meal 1:3 eggs breakfast with 4 slices of bacon an 24grams whey shake

meal 2:1spoon peanut butter/50gram whey shake/boiled egg

meal 3:chicken breast/ 50gram whey protein shake

meal 4:beef patty/ 50 gram protein shake/boiled egg

meal 5: 2 boiled eggs/2tsp peanutbutter/24grams whey shake

meal 6:chicken breast/beef patty/24 gram whey shake

this pretty much my diet in detail.

will start adding green veggies soon, and suggestion on what to add or take out speak your voice.

You have to drop the protein shakes. At most, you should only be taking one in a day. Take a lighter to a protein shake and take a lighter to a piece of steak. Which one will go up in smoke first? The protein shake. This tells you the protein shake doesn't hold crap for energy because fire is able to eat it up fast. Your body is going to do the same. You need something that will burn slow. Your body is telling you that by giving you flat muscles.

You keep saying you have lost muscle. It's due to your diet. You can get 15 dozen eggs from Sam's Club for 18 dollars. Three pounds of Salmon cost 21 dollars. You have to eat. Flat muscles and feeling weak is the body telling you that you are headed down the wrong road.

What is your carb loading plan? Don't miss a carb load day just because you think you are too heavy. It's a must that you load up sooner or later. I load up every seven days currently. When I get to a good bodyfat percentage, then I will load up more frequently.

[ultrawaves]

im allergic to fish so i need another source
i can eat shrimp
ive been eating beef for the last 2 days and i feel great,and strength has improve.

you want me to cut down on protein, i will, but remember i work three jobs a so its hard for me to just warm up food, when i could take a quick shake during my breaks

i havent carbed up in about 2weeks. friday i will carb load, how many grams of carbs do you suggest.

im taking meltdown fatburner do you think i should stop taking them.

been doing high volume but very heavy dropsets, for almost every body part to failure.

[devo09]

your leptin/t3 levels are probabley in the ****ter, you need to incorporate refeeds into your diet

[Joe Go]

Originally Posted by ultrawaves

im allergic to fish so i need another source
i can eat shrimp
ive been eating beef for the last 2 days and i feel great,and strength has improve.

you want me to cut down on protein, i will, but remember i work three jobs a so its hard for me to just warm up food, when i could take a quick shake during my breaks

i havent carbed up in about 2weeks. friday i will carb load, how many grams of carbs do you suggest.

im taking meltdown fatburner do you think i should stop taking them.

been doing high volume but very heavy dropsets, for almost every body part to failure.

It's critical that you refeed. Shoot for 300-400 grams maybe more depending on your body. Eat what you like to carb up with. I've been eating 4 pounds of butternut squash, 1.5 pounds of banana's and measuring 2 cups of rice uncooked then cooking and eating it. I also add raisin's to the rice so it's easier to get down. I plan on changing out the banana's to more of a selection of fruits next week.

I suggest dropping the fat burner because you should be able to drop the weight through diet and training. Right now your diet is not good and you are forcing your body to do something it doesn't want to do by taking fat burners. Your body is calling your bluff by taking your energy away and making you look flat. Your body is also messing with your mind making you think you are losing muscle at an aggressive pace. That's why I suggest you drop the fat burner. Your diet is not good enough to support them.

Yes, you have to find a way to get rid of the protein shakes. I take in 19 eggs a day; cycling the egg yokes depending on energy levels. Maybe you can start hard boiling eggs and eating those. It's a much better source of protein than a shake and you can eat them fast. Try and get your protein in the 200-250 gram area a day with just food. You will feel a difference. Beef is great for a protein source. So is chicken, and pork.

Keep your water intake high. I'm putting down 1.5 gallons a day, but I've built myself up to it all year.

[scoobysnacks]

On keto the refeed needs to be WAY higher than 300-400 grams carbs, the whole day should be carbs, high glycemic, keep fats REALLY low and only enough protien equivalent to your lBM.

[Hyequality]

i have had 2 trail and errors and i am up to 210 at 13% bf at the moment i am about 6ft 1/2 inch tall. think i am a meso. have never had abs and before i start cutting again i was wondering if i could get some idea or help from anyone

[ygbodybuilder10]

Originally Posted by Joe Go

You have to drop the protein shakes. At most, you should only be taking one in a day. Take a lighter to a protein shake and take a lighter to a piece of steak. Which one will go up in smoke first? The protein shake. This tells you the protein shake doesn't hold crap for energy because fire is able to eat it up fast. Your body is going to do the same. You need something that will burn slow. Your body is telling you that by giving you flat muscles.

You keep saying you have lost muscle. It's due to your diet. You can get 15 dozen eggs from Sam's Club for 18 dollars. Three pounds of Salmon cost 21 dollars. You have to eat. Flat muscles and feeling weak is the body telling you that you are headed down the wrong road.

What is your carb loading plan? Don't miss a carb load day just because you think you are too heavy. It's a must that you load up sooner or later. I load up every seven days currently. When I get to a good bodyfat percentage, then I will load up more frequently.

why should he get rid of whey protein for his meals, whey has the greater Biological Value

[Joe Go]

Originally Posted by ygbodybuilder10

why should he get rid of whey protein for his meals, whey has the greater Biological Value

Here's some of my reasoning:

I have over 10 years in supplements. I have a lot of trial and error down that road already. To keep it short, you will spin your wheels more, then hooking up.

Powder protein will not fill you out like food protein will.

Powder protein was created some time in the 1970-1980's area. Food protein has been here for thousands of years.

Food protein is perfectly formulated. Powder protein is only as smart as the scientists that developed it. That scientist is only as smart as the computer programmer. If either one makes an error in judgement then it compounds as time goes on.

When a supplement company is having hard times they will lower product quality to stay a float. That's hard to do with whole foods because we'll taste it. If we have to, we'll grow our own food if need be and get the food at its strongest point.

Another thing supplement companys do is formulate the supplement to make your mind believe your body is moving in the right direction. They also will do what ever it takes to make a product taste good because they know that a good tasting product will sell no matter what its outcome is (for most people). None of this with whole foods.

Let's say you find a reliable supplement company. What people do is dump good portion of there daily intake into it. You can't do that. You were given teeth for a reason.

I've done some time oversea's and I don't this supplement addition where I have been.

I also watch what happens to people as they age in America. They are turning more toward supplements/drugs instead of food. When you talk to these people and hear all their problems you have to start to wonder, is it there body that's dieing or is it the supplements/drugs messing with them. Making them think they are dieing.

Food is for life. May as well learn how to eat properly now and enjoy the benefits.

[baloo99]

Food also requires more caloric expenditure to break it down (you work harder for the nutrition), as well as makes you feel full (I've taken to switching my food choices around lately for the same reason, and it makes a huge difference!)

S

[EBA84]

Originally Posted by scoobysnacks

On keto the refeed needs to be WAY higher than 300-400 grams carbs, the whole day should be carbs, high glycemic, keep fats REALLY low and only enough protien equivalent to your lBM.

Exactly.

You have shut your metabolism down. Without refeed days, you are just spinning your wheels. Your body cannot convert T4 to T3 in the absence of carbs. I personally like to run a 3 low/ 1 high type of diet. If I am not getting lean enough, I will add more low days. If I am losing too fast, I will add more high days. Pretty easy to adjust this type of diet. Just another version of a CKD.

Someone mentioned supplements and I agree too many people are using them to replace whole food. There is no replacement for good, whole food. Supplements should be used in addition to a good diet. Not as the whole diet. I would only use whey protein first thing in the morning and post workout.

[scoobysnacks]

Originally Posted by EBA84

Exactly.

You have shut your metabolism down. Without refeed days, you are just spinning your wheels. Your body cannot convert T4 to T3 in the absence of carbs. I personally like to run a 3 low/ 1 high type of diet. If I am not getting lean enough, I will add more low days. If I am losing too fast, I will add more high days. Pretty easy to adjust this type of diet. Just another version of a CKD.

Someone mentioned supplements and I agree too many people are using them to replace whole food. There is no replacement for good, whole food. Supplements should be used in addition to a good diet. Not as the whole diet. I would only use whey protein first thing in the morning and post workout.

Hey EBA, curious, do you employ this type of refeed offseason? Ive had some great success with it. My usualy days around 250 carbs non training and 300 training days, every 8 days or so once i just have that flat feeling Ill do a refeed usually waffles, real maple, pasta with sauce, tons of bagels tiny spread of cream cheese and tons of kids cereal and about 4 scoops of 20 gram protein throughout the day as I get a good bit of protein from the carbs.

Many are scared to try this, but even with a decently high carb intake offseason these still actually keep me lean and help me take advantage of the natural insulin spike, plus its just damn tasty every 8-10 days.

Just curious if you do this? or only when you diet. I should add Im an ecto and ive seen peopel do this in the offseason with a lower carb intake than I employ, but still the theory is the same in most respects.

[EBA84]

Originally Posted by scoobysnacks

Hey EBA, curious, do you employ this type of refeed offseason? Ive had some great success with it. My usualy days around 250 carbs non training and 300 training days, every 8 days or so once i just have that flat feeling Ill do a refeed usually waffles, real maple, pasta with sauce, tons of bagels tiny spread of cream cheese and tons of kids cereal and about 4 scoops of 20 gram protein throughout the day as I get a good bit of protein from the carbs.

Many are scared to try this, but even with a decently high carb intake offseason these still actually keep me lean and help me take advantage of the natural insulin spike, plus its just damn tasty every 8-10 days.

Just curious if you do this? or only when you diet. I should add Im an ecto and ive seen peopel do this in the offseason with a lower carb intake than I employ, but still the theory is the same in most respects.

I do the exact same thing off season or precontest. Only difference is that carbs are higher in the off season. I eat pretty much whatever on Saturdays which includes waffles, pancakes, syrup, cereal and whatever else is around. I keep protein and fat intake lower.

I agree most people are afraid to do this but not only does it satisfy you mentally, it gives the metabolism a nice boost.