Body Building and High Blood Pressure

[ShotokhanDragon]

I have been to my doctor and he told me that I need to reduce my overall body mass down to 165 pounds (total weight).
I currently weigh 220 pounds and have 11% body fat.
I know that I still have a ways to go to lose a little more fat and lean up a little bit.
I wanted a second opinion on this, so I went to another doctor and he told me that same thing, that I need to reduce my overall body weight down to 165 pounds (total weight).
They have said that excess muscle mass causes the heart to have to work harder to pump blood and oxygen through the dense mass of muscle, and also, the excess weight is bad for the joints (back, knees, shoulders, etc.).
Well, my blood pressure is always normal and my resting heart rate is around 70 bpm,also in normal range.
I was just wondering if anyone esle has ever heard this from their doctor?
Does this sound logical?
This is the fisrt time that I have ever heard of this.

I welcome any and all feed back.

Thank you in advance.


To the Administrators: I am not asking for medical advice from anyone, I just wondered if anyone has ever heard this kind of advice from their doctor.

[Slated]

caffine, NO products, PH/PS/test related supps, and training hard all make my BP higher than it should. It's even caused hemroid probs, and I'm not even close to 30.

All part of the game though. You just have to keep everything in moderation and keep your body in check on a regular basis.

[ShotokhanDragon]

Hey Slated,
Thank you for you input.
I agree that weight training causes blood pressure to elevate while working out, but it shouldn't stay elevated, should it?
I mean, once you relax, your blood pressure should come back down as well, shouldn't it?
I had no idea that this could cause hemmoroid problems. I already have a history with that. I suppose from the strain of heavy weight lifting, right?

Originally Posted by Slated

caffine, NO products, PH/PS/test related supps, and training hard all make my BP higher than it should. It's even caused hemroid probs, and I'm not even close to 30.

All part of the game though. You just have to keep everything in moderation and keep your body in check on a regular basis.

[kentrox99]

I've actually lowered my systolic by approx 20 points by making sure my diet is in check and adding 4-5 days of cardio to my lifting routine.

[ShotokhanDragon]

One of my doctors advised me to do atleast 6 hours of cardio a week.
If I did that I would not have any thime for weight training, and I always heard that much cardio would cause your body to burn muscle for fuel.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by kentrox99

I've actually lowered my systolic by approx 20 points by making sure my diet is in check and adding 4-5 days of cardio to my lifting routine.

[boognish666]

I have high blood pressure. Lean muscle mass is good for you. It keeps your metabolism up which keeps body fat down. Excess body fat will increase your BP. Excess muscle mass can be bad for you if taken to an extreme, but I think it would be damn hard to get to that point if you keep it natural. Any unnatural supps will most likely increase your blood pressure too, so train hard, stay natural and keep your diet in check. Plus, drink lots and lots of water. This is what I've been doing and it has worked for me this far, but everyone is different and I'm no doctor, so if your doctor is telling you to lose weight, he knows more than I do.

[ShotokhanDragon]

See, my blood pressure has always been normal 130/80, and my resting heart rate is around 75.
Yeah, I hear you on the "keeping ot natural".
I am very afraid of steroids.
I have heard too many horror stories about them.
However, if anyone wants to take them, then I say, more power to them, after all it is their body and I don't judge.

My diet, I am on the Zone Diet, 6 meals per day and I drink a little over a gallon of water per day.
I read on BB.com that you should weigh yourself first thing in the morning, then take your weight and divide that by half and that is the amount of ounces of water that you should have for that day. That way you body will stay well hydrated.

I just don't understand why/how my doctor thinks that muscle is unhealthy.
I just can't seem to wrap my mind around that .


Thank you for your input.

Originally Posted by boognish666

I have high blood pressure. Lean muscle mass is good for you. It keeps your metabolism up which keeps body fat down. Excess body fat will increase your BP. Excess muscle mass can be bad for you if taken to an extreme, but I think it would be damn hard to get to that point if you keep it natural. Any unnatural supps will most likely increase your blood pressure too, so train hard, stay natural and keep your diet in check. Plus, drink lots and lots of water. This is what I've been doing and it has worked for me this far, but everyone is different and I'm no doctor, so if your doctor is telling you to lose weight, he knows more than I do.

[MuscleManxx]

i know l arginine lowers blood pressure
as it allows better blood flow

so buy some bulk arginine if u have high blood pressure

[ShotokhanDragon]

Thank buddy, I do take Nitrix.
My blood pressure has always been normal 130/80, but I think my doctor moreso concerned with my family medical history and how it may relate to me in the future.
I didn't know that L-Arginine reduces high blood pressure.
Hey, I don't really how it does it, as long as it does it.
Maybe because it is a vasodialtor?, it would seem logical.

Thank you for your input.

Originally Posted by MuscleManxx

i know l arginine lowers blood pressure
as it allows better blood flow

so buy some bulk arginine if u have high blood pressure

[jasona]

I disagree that you should necessarily have to lose body weight, but at the same time I do not contradict a doctor's advice either. If you're only 11% BF, then you're already doing better than the majority of the population in that regard. The doctor is probably considering the fact that you're getting older (age 45 and is often considered a risk factor for men), along with family history. Do keep an eye on your blood pressure and visit your doctor regularly over the coming years and you should be good.

[free agent]

Celery Seed Extract
DOSAGE: 75-150mg twice daily at signs of high BP, or 8 celery ribs/day
INFO: Celery seed contains a compound called 3nB (3-n-butylphthalide). 3nB lowers blood pressure by acting as a diuretic as well as a vasodilator. 3nB has been shown to lower blood pressure in animal studies by 12-14% as well as lowering cholesterol by 7%. (1)


Hawthorne Berry
DOSAGE: 565-1500mg/day
INFO: Since the 19th century hawthorne berries have been used to support the heart, and to normalize cardiovascular functions. Hawthorne berry helps protect the arterial walls, can dilate (enlarge) coronary blood vessels (the vessels supplying the heart with vital oxygen, blood, and nutrients), and strengthens the heart's pumping ability. (2)

[ShotokhanDragon]

Yeah, that was one fact that he (my doctor) would not address, and is my body fat %.
He just dismissed it altogether.
Yeah, I think he is contemplating what could happen, given my family medical history.
The one thing that gets me is, is my blood pressure is always in check as well as my resting heart rate.
Now, I have 2 older sisters who are both on blood pressure medication as well as cholesterol medication, maybe he thinks that is what is going to happen to me as well.
However, both of my sisters do not execise in any way, they both have very bad eating habits - fried foods, sweets late night deserts, etc.
I on the other hand am strict to my Zone Diet and excersie.
I just don't feel confident that he is taking that into consideration.


Thank you for your comments and advice.

Originally Posted by jasona

I disagree that you should necessarily have to lose body weight, but at the same time I do not contradict a doctor's advice either. If you're only 11% BF, then you're already doing better than the majority of the population in that regard. The doctor is probably considering the fact that you're getting older (age 45 and is often considered a risk factor for men), along with family history. Do keep an eye on your blood pressure and visit your doctor regularly over the coming years and you should be good.

[benz5521]

Life support. Lots of good stuff in there for your overall health including bp control.

[ShotokhanDragon]

WOW!!, this is great to know. I am taking XPel right now for excess water, and i read that diuretics can help lower blood pressure.
Since my blood pressure has never been an issue, I would think that Celery Seed Extract and the Hawthorn Berry would be a great preventative, given my family medical history.


Thoughts?

...and thank you for the tips and avice.

Originally Posted by jammin jack

Celery Seed Extract
DOSAGE: 75-150mg twice daily at signs of high BP, or 8 celery ribs/day
INFO: Celery seed contains a compound called 3nB (3-n-butylphthalide). 3nB lowers blood pressure by acting as a diuretic as well as a vasodilator. 3nB has been shown to lower blood pressure in animal studies by 12-14% as well as lowering cholesterol by 7%. (1)


Hawthorne Berry
DOSAGE: 565-1500mg/day
INFO: Since the 19th century hawthorne berries have been used to support the heart, and to normalize cardiovascular functions. Hawthorne berry helps protect the arterial walls, can dilate (enlarge) coronary blood vessels (the vessels supplying the heart with vital oxygen, blood, and nutrients), and strengthens the heart's pumping ability. (2)

[skiboyny]

Originally Posted by ShotokhanDragon

I have been to my doctor and he told me that I need to reduce my overall body mass down to 165 pounds (total weight).
I currently weigh 220 pounds and have 11% body fat.

How did you determine your body fat? I am of similar height as you 5'10" and weigh 165. At 220 lbs and the same body fat, I would have a huge muscular look and don't take this wrong, but looking at your photos you don't seem to have that look.(really trying to help here) You might have more fat to loose that you are aware of. Keep loosing and those muscles that you do have will rip up and look great. There is not a doctor that you'll see that will ever agree to 220lbs muscle or fat on a 5'9" frame. Even the best bodies are considered obese by medical standards. Just saying...

[Psylence]

Taurine might be able to help you also -


Originally Posted by Dinoiii
"BACK PUMPS" are the kidneys until proven otherwise, I am fine to suggest this kidney aggitation of sort being secondary to an increased blood volume secondary to increased Hematocrit and ion depostion. You might ask well, how the hell does this work dinoiii if you think its blood volume and the like...well a great % of your cardiac output need be filtered by the kidneys and there are a slew of smaller vessels within the kidney that are very pertinent (but I will save the anatomy lesson in this one).

Taurine in and of itself aids this scenario by potentiating increases in cell volume via effects in the ion-flux and nutrient gated transport.

BUT HOLD THE PHONE, THAT'S NOT ALL!!!

90% of bb's also have a simple deficiency of taurine to begin with. You may say, so what you're telling me is that correction of the deficiency is going to alleviate my symptoms, right?

NOT EXACTLY!

What I will say is that deficiency of taurine contributes to elevated blood pressure in people with hypertension. And what you get when you go on a PH/PS/AAS cycle is the potential for increased blood pressure. Limited research has found that supplementation with taurine lowers blood pressure in animals and in people. This is hypothesized through a reduction in the hormone epinephrine. Because, yup - you guessed it...increased blood through the tiny blood vessels of the kidney even produces issue with the organ tissue itself.

So, I ingest a couple caps of taurine and I am fine. Well - in a placebo-oriented world ... maybe, but a couple caps has NOT corrected the deficiency I describe above.

Most people don't dose taurine appropriately to begin with, taurine in the average 70kg individual (or 154 pounds for the "metrically"-deficient Americans reading along) should be dosed at 6 GRAMS to see true efficacy. For the average 200 pound bb, this is increased to about 7 GRAMS, higher weight...likely as high as 8 or 9 to accomplish satisfaction of volume of distribution differences.

[krisinstl]

Originally Posted by skiboyny

How did you determine your body fat? I am of similar height as you 5'10" and weigh 165. At 220 lbs and the same body fat, I would have a huge muscular look and don't take this wrong, but looking at your photos you don't seem to have that look.(really trying to help here) You might have more fat to loose that you are aware of. Keep loosing and those muscles that you do have will rip up and look great. There is not a doctor that you'll see that will ever agree to 220lbs muscle or fat on a 5'9" frame. Even the best bodies are considered obese by medical standards. Just saying...

x2 I just checked the pictures.

Good advice, repped.

[tdog69]

I would seriously think about different doctors, these are FDA text book answers for BMI and very narrow minded of a doctor.

My blood presure goes up and down and my doctor has never based her diagnoses based on my BMI. She will ask questions like what I eat, drink, smoke, hours slept and any new stresses in my life. Also high BP can be hereditary, so this is something else your doctor should be asking.

My problem with high BP is hot souce, salt and soy souce, I avoid using a lot of this and my BP drops.

Originally Posted by skiboyny

How did you determine your body fat? I am of similar height as you 5'10" and weigh 165. At 220 lbs and the same body fat, I would have a huge muscular look and don't take this wrong, but looking at your photos you don't seem to have that look.(really trying to help here) You might have more fat to loose that you are aware of. Keep loosing and those muscles that you do have will rip up and look great.

This guy is right on, I am 5'10.5" wiegh 210 at 17% BF and am bulking right now, either your BF % is off or your sodium intake is extremely high and causing a bloat and high BP if you are really at 11% BF

[IronPimper]

Originally Posted by skiboyny

How did you determine your body fat? I am of similar height as you 5'10" and weigh 165. At 220 lbs and the same body fat, I would have a huge muscular look and don't take this wrong, but looking at your photos you don't seem to have that look.(really trying to help here) You might have more fat to loose that you are aware of. Keep loosing and those muscles that you do have will rip up and look great. There is not a doctor that you'll see that will ever agree to 220lbs muscle or fat on a 5'9" frame. Even the best bodies are considered obese by medical standards. Just saying...

I noticed this also. not to be rude, but you're certainly not 11% bodyfat. You need to have someone else evaluate your bf levels more accurately or spend the money to do hydrostatic weighing at a University.

Secondly, while bf% is an accurate measure for us, as bodybuilders, it isn't necessarily indicative of good health. People need to keep in mind that your heart is a muscle, but unless you have a diseased heart, it does not grow. It stays about the size of your fist forever. When you get larger and larger, whether it be muscle OR fat, you are forcing that muscle to work considerably harder. It's like trying to increase your bench from 250 to 350. You can do it very gradually over a very long period of time if everything goes correctly, but if you try and do it overnight it would crush your chest. Some people may not even be able to make that leap in weight. The heart functions the very same way. Some people may be able to graudally increase their weight and their heart's strength and efficiency, others will not.

I have a great doctor, and his general rule of thumb is such:

For every 2% of bf you are under 20, you may add one to your healthy bmi. For example:

the high end of "normal" on the BMI scale is 24.9, which means at 5'10" you should be weigh 174 or less. Now let's say that instead of 20% bf you are 12%, that means you could add 4 to that BMI number, which would give you 28.9. This would put you at 200lbs. Thus a 200lb man at 12% bf would be about equal to a 174lb man at 20% bf.

Even so, at 210 and what I estimate to be 16-18% bf you are certainly what doctors would consider overweight.

[tdog69]

I am

210
5'10
Your score:
30.3
Your status:
30 and above: Obese

I am Obese, lol ( I would not consider myself obese ).

Aren't these standards for BMI measurements based on statistics and research comparisons done on study groups and not based on science.

[IronPimper]

Originally Posted by tdog69

I am

210
5'10
Your score:
30.3
Your status:
30 and above: Obese

I am Obese, lol ( I would not consider myself obese ).

Aren't these standards for BMI measurements based on statistics and research comparisons done on study groups and not based on science.

They are a general predictor of negative health attributes in the future. If you want a more complete prediction you should take into account family history, smoking and drinking history, waist circumfrence, and a number of other factors.

However, if your BMI is greater than 30 and your waist is greater than 36, it's definitely time to lay off the cheeseburgers.

[SouEu]

The following supplements are supposed to lower blood pressure:

Hawthorne Berry
Celery Seed Extract
Grape Seed Extract
Lycopene
C-12 peptide
Arjuna
L-Arginine


You can give it a try, seems to have lowered mine.

There are studies out there if you search for them.

[CYTX]

At 130/80 you are considered to have High Blood Pressure and in Pre-Hypertenison. My BP is about the same and my doc put me on BP meds. He wants it around 110/60. I argued with my doc about losing weight since I am trying to gain weight and strength.

[tdog69]

Originally Posted by IronPimper

They are a general predictor of negative health attributes in the future. If you want a more complete prediction you should take into account family history, smoking and drinking history, waist circumfrence, and a number of other factors.

However, if your BMI is greater than 30 and your waist is greater than 36, it's definitely time to lay off the cheeseburgers.

Ya basic BMI web pages and calculation are geared towards the average couch potatoes and not meant to evaluate an active or athletic person.


Guess sense I am at 34 inch waste that bacon cheese burger is going down for lunch today LOL

[jasona]

Originally Posted by tdog69

Ya basic BMI web pages and calculation are geared towards the average couch potatoes and not meant to evaluate an active or athletic person.


Guess sense I am at 34 inch waste that bacon cheese burger is going down for lunch today LOL

My company uses a 40 inch waist circumference along with % BF and BMI to assess current health risk to our clients' health plans. A high waist circumference is a very serious risk factor for metabolic syndrome and cardiovascular disease. In a vast majority of cases, individuals with an elevated BMI and high % fat consistently have pre-hypertensive/hypertensive blood pressure readings. So I definitely agree that BMI alone is a poor way to evaluate a bodybuilder or strength athlete who's overweight technically, but maintaining a low percent fat.

[IronPimper]

Originally Posted by CYTX

At 130/80 you are considered to have High Blood Pressure and in Pre-Hypertenison. My BP is about the same and my doc put me on BP meds. He wants it around 110/60. I argued with my doc about losing weight since I am trying to gain weight and strength.

I would NEVER take BP meds if my blood pressure was 130/80, but that's just ME personally. There are plenty of naturally occuring ways to reduce your blood pressure without jumping straight on prescriptions. I really wish Dr's weren't in the pockets of these pharma companies.

[animalfan]

Originally Posted by IronPimper

I would NEVER take BP meds if my blood pressure was 130/80, but that's just ME personally. There are plenty of naturally occuring ways to reduce your blood pressure without jumping straight on prescriptions. I really wish Dr's weren't in the pockets of these pharma companies.

that's exaclty how i feel. my doc tried to put me on bp meds for "pre-hypertension". i cut most sodium out of my diet and started doing 20 minutes of cardio daily and dropped it to about 125/78.