Pre, During, & Postworkout Nutrition.

[CapnPowerMonger]

Originally Posted by Vig16

Hey guys,

I was talking to a trainer at my gym today, and he told me that early morning workouts aren?t ideal for size and strength gains, as you don?t have time to get proper nutrition in. His reasoning was that A.M. workouts aren't ideal when it comes to weight training, and eating before is needed but that's going to take away from the meals the rest of the day causing timing/meal amount issues as well as having to wake and eat at least an hour before working out, and eating that much that early is not only hard, it's not realistic. He said that weight training at any time of the day other than that early with having to eat a pretty big meal an hour or more before is going to benefit you wonderfully, as he claims that the body needs a lot of fuel from meals over the course of the day.

I can understand some of that, but if one were to follow the guidelines that Alan suggests in this post, then don?t you think you could just have a liquid meal pre- and post- workout with the required guidelines and be OK?

Now, I go to the gym at 5:00 A.M. everyday, as that?s all that my schedule allows me to do as I work 8-5 and then go to class at night, as I?m a full-time grad student. Those classes run from 6:30-9:30 P.M. and my gym closes at 10:00 P.M., so I wouldn?t be able to lift after class either way. Do any of you have any suggestions?

Thanks!!

That was confusing, but i think you are saying that the guy told you you would have enough meals(energy)in to have a good workout in the morning. Thats crap. I prefer to workout in the evenings and get 3-4 meals in before lifting, but it isnt a make or break thing. There are two sides to this coin, if you train earlier in the day you would have more "post workout" meals to fuel recovery. what does he think about that? lol. If you train in the evening you would have more "energy" in your system. There are pluses to both sides but those pluses are so minimal that you shouldnt waste any time worrying about them. Worry will make you catabolic dude!

[Richie]

Does he have any real experience or is he a text-book trainer.

You fit training in to suit your lifestyle.

People way underestimate the human body. Just because you can't eat before or after a workout that fits within the alleged "window of opurtunity" doesn't mean you going to lose all your gains.

I've gone home from the Gym, had a shower and then lied down for over an hour while the wife was doing stuff. When she told me breakfast was ready i got up and the first thing i noticed was how full i looked!!!! The last time i ate was about 14 hours before!!!! OMG, how could that be?

I love training at 4:00am on an empty stomach. I'm strongest then. That's what works for ME and that's what time fits with MY lifestyle.

Richie

[Vig16]

Originally Posted by CapnPowerMonger

That was confusing, but i think you are saying that the guy told you you would have enough meals(energy)in to have a good workout in the morning. Thats crap. I prefer to workout in the evenings and get 3-4 meals in before lifting, but it isnt a make or break thing. There are two sides to this coin, if you train earlier in the day you would have more "post workout" meals to fuel recovery. what does he think about that? lol. If you train in the evening you would have more "energy" in your system. There are pluses to both sides but those pluses are so minimal that you shouldnt waste any time worrying about them. Worry will make you catabolic dude!

Yea, he was saying that I WIL NOT have enough meals (energy) in me at 5:00 A.M. in order to have a good workout. For some reason, I feel as though I have more energy for my workout if I lift in the early A.M. as oppose to the evening because I feel more drained from my daily activities at work or whatever throughout the day. Everyone is obviously different with this though?

I?m definitely going to bring up the fact that I would have more ?post workout? meals to fuel recovery and see what he says to that. I never thought of it that way, but it definitely makes sense, lol.

And Richie, I couldn?t agree with you more. I figure if it works, then why try to fix it?

[martinelli]

Seems like there is no study around to support what my dad said, and he said he didn't know what source he got it from, so it looks like we're good, Alan.

[harlan100]

70g crunchynut cornflakes 50g whey had been nice

[jucatengo]

Hello fellas. I got two questions. My current diet is like this:
7:00AM - breakfast
10:00AM - snack
12:00AM - lunch
03:00PM - preworkout
03:30PM~04:30PM - workout
05:00PM - postworkout
08:30PM - dinner
10:00PM - 'pre sleep'

My lunch:
240g of rice
150g of beans
100g of chicken
Salad and olive oil.

Also I'm bulking.
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Pre-workout question:
I want to go to the gym at 1:30 PM, instead of 3:30 PM. Can I just eat my lunch before going? Or should I change lunch for pre workout?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post-workout shake question:

Originally Posted by alan aragon

Sooner the better postworkout - within 30 minutes, but optimally ASAP, have either a liquid or solid meal:

Protein = 0.25g/lb TBW
Carbs = 0.5g/lb TBW
Amount of fat here doesn't matter as long as your daily target is hit.

I'm aiming to take 45g of protein and 90g of carbs. I will use whey protein, maltodextrin (carbohydrate) and milk. My question is, shoud I take 45g of protein from whey + 90g of carbs from malto + milk, or can I use the protein and carbs from milk (300ml = 9g pro, 13.5g carb)?



Thank you.

[sepandee]

I posted this question some time ago, but never got an answer. Here's another shot at it:

If I'm aiming to get 40g of protein and 80g of carb for my post workout, can I divide it into a shake and a meal taken within 1 hour from each other? e.g. I come home and immediately take a shake that has 20g of protein and 40g of carb, and then an hour later, i have a meal that consists of 20g of protein and 40g of carbs.

I want to do this because 80g of carb with a shake is too much for me, makes me feel full (especially if it has oats in it, which usually it does). I would gladly have a full meal immediately after workout, but it takes a good 45 minutes before I can have a meal ready.

So dividing it up seems convenient. But is it OK?

[TheWaffleIron]

Originally Posted by jucatengo

Hello fellas. I got two questions. My current diet is like this:
7:00AM - breakfast
10:00AM - snack
12:00AM - lunch
03:00PM - preworkout
03:30PM~04:30PM - workout
05:00PM - postworkout
08:30PM - dinner
10:00PM - 'pre sleep'

My lunch:
240g of rice
150g of beans
100g of chicken
Salad and olive oil.

Also I'm bulking.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-workout question:
I want to go to the gym at 1:30 PM, instead of 3:30 PM. Can I just eat my lunch before going? Or should I change lunch for pre workout?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just eat your lunch before going (at 12:00, according to your schedule).

Originally Posted by jucatengo

Post-workout shake question:

I'm aiming to take 45g of protein and 90g of carbs. I will use whey protein, maltodextrin (carbohydrate) and milk. My question is, shoud I take 45g of protein from whey + 90g of carbs from malto + milk, or can I use the protein and carbs from milk (300ml = 9g pro, 13.5g carb)?

Sufficient intake of carbs and protein postWO is more important than the specific type of each. That said, it seems like it would be difficult for you to get ample macronutrients postWO solely from milk. You can use the protein and carbs from milk, but adding whey and malto would probably be the best way (for you) to get enough food.

Originally Posted by sepandee

If I'm aiming to get 40g of protein and 80g of carb for my post workout, can I divide it into a shake and a meal taken within 1 hour from each other? e.g. I come home and immediately take a shake that has 20g of protein and 40g of carb, and then an hour later, i have a meal that consists of 20g of protein and 40g of carbs.

Yes, you can divide up your postWO meal.

Originally Posted by sepandee

I want to do this because 80g of carb with a shake is too much for me, makes me feel full (especially if it has oats in it, which usually it does). I would gladly have a full meal immediately after workout, but it takes a good 45 minutes before I can have a meal ready.

If you would like to have a full meal after a workout, then go for it. Contrary to the dogma of these boards, a "fast protein + carb" meal immediately postWO is not necessary in the vast majority of cases (unless the individual is training to complete glycogen depletion in a fasted state). There's nothing wrong with having a regular meal 45 min after your workout.

What do your pre-WO meal and workout consist of?

[sepandee]

Originally Posted by TheWaffleIron

What do your pre-WO meal and workout consist of?

My pre-workout meal: depends what time of the day I go. If around 2, then it's usually just a full meal (lunch) that either has rice/potato/bread, chicken/meat/tuna fish/shrimps (tuna fish/shrimps for my avocado salad, yum), and usually a bowl of mixed vegetables with olive oil.

If I go at 6pm, then it's a shake consisting of milk, whey, and a banana and an apple OR oats (I prefer a banana and an apple, oats make me bloated).

My workout is Rippetoe's: workout A (Squat 5/5/5; bench press 5/5/5; deadlift 1x5) and workout B (squat 5/5/5; shoulder press 5/5/5; power clean 5/5/5), alternating every other day (weekends are off, with the exception of basketball on saturdays).

As for the 45 minute time ... it takes me 10 minutes after my last workout to do some stretching, then a 10 minute walk home, 10 minutes of wasting time, and then 45 minutes of cooking time. So that's why I wanted to see if I can get half my post workout macros immediately after i finish (I can make a shake with 20g of protein from whey, 400ml of milk, a banana, an apple, and a few raspberries, cherries, strawberries, etc.) and then get another 30g of protein and 40g of carb 45-60 minutes later.

[TheWaffleIron]

Originally Posted by sepandee

My pre-workout meal: depends what time of the day I go. If around 2, then it's usually just a full meal (lunch) that either has rice/potato/bread, chicken/meat/tuna fish/shrimps (tuna fish/shrimps for my avocado salad, yum), and usually a bowl of mixed vegetables with olive oil.

If I go at 6pm, then it's a shake consisting of milk, whey, and a banana and an apple OR oats (I prefer a banana and an apple, oats make me bloated).

My workout is Rippetoe's: workout A (Squat 5/5/5; bench press 5/5/5; deadlift 1x5) and workout B (squat 5/5/5; shoulder press 5/5/5; power clean 5/5/5), alternating every other day (weekends are off, with the exception of basketball on saturdays).

As for the 45 minute time ... it takes me 10 minutes after my last workout to do some stretching, then a 10 minute walk home, 10 minutes of wasting time, and then 45 minutes of cooking time. So that's why I wanted to see if I can get half my post workout macros immediately after i finish (I can make a shake with 20g of protein from whey, 400ml of milk, a banana, an apple, and a few raspberries, cherries, strawberries, etc.) and then get another 30g of protein and 40g of carb 45-60 minutes later.

The whole meal postWO is fine. You're training in a fed state, not to glycogen depletion.

You can do half of your postWO meal immediately after and the other half later, or the full meal later. It comes down to personal preference.

[grunts_n_th_gym]

Thank for this info. It helps.

[ss4vegeta1]

Sup everyone, hows everyone doin in here I haven't posted in here in ages. Hey Alan what you been up to?

[alan aragon]

What's up y'all, I've been slammed with work. I moved offices to a very busy training facility. Add to that the research review & Men's Health assignments (consulting, articles, & monthly column), and forum posting hits the skids. I'll be back posting as soon as I catch up with client work.

[CoQ10]

Originally Posted by alan aragon

What's up y'all, I've been slammed with work. I moved offices to a very busy training facility. Add to that the research review & Men's Health assignments (consulting, articles, & monthly column), and forum posting hits the skids. I'll be back posting as soon as I catch up with client work.

Congrats on your success, bro. Keep up the good work.

-C10

[Brendon9686]

Just looking for opinions on my pre-workout (which is also my breakfast). I have this meal around 5:30 am and I start my workout between 6:30 and 6:50 typically

1 cup oats
1 cup skim milk
1/2 scoop whey
1 banana

[djansen]

Originally Posted by Brendon9686

Just looking for opinions on my pre-workout (which is also my breakfast). I have this meal around 5:30 am and I start my workout between 6:30 and 6:50 typically

1 cup oats
1 cup skim milk
1/2 scoop whey
1 banana

looks fine, I would make it a full scoop of whey though.

[vilestiakron]

i'm pretty sure we agree on the basic principles of this topic.

[ty-black]

hey alan quick question...I take nitro tech hardcore is it good to still drink the shake on days I don't work out..if yes can u tell me good times to take it..

[Xhale12]

Hey Alan. I just finished reading your most recent article in Men's Health on GI. Great work bud! I always enjoy your writing. Keep em coming.

[Xhale12]

Hey Alan. I just finished reading your most recent article in Men's Health on GI. Great work bud! I always enjoy your writing. Keep em coming.

[bodygawd]

Originally Posted by Brendon9686

Just looking for opinions on my pre-workout (which is also my breakfast). I have this meal around 5:30 am and I start my workout between 6:30 and 6:50 typically

1 cup oats
1 cup skim milk
1/2 scoop whey
1 banana

Have not tried this one ...looks like I will be now

Thanks for sharing it with us

[goldfinger81]

has anyone read alan's AARR january issue? there were 2 studies that i thought were really interesting and raised some questions about pwo nutrition.

one study (pg 4) concluded that whole milk had a greater effect on muscle protein synthesis pwo than a calorie-equal amount of fat free milk. it suggested that fat content was the differing factor, although further research would be necessary.

second study (pg 14) concluded that total milk protein (which i believe contains whey & casein) was more effective than whey or casein alone. i think it was in reference to pwo nutrition, but not 100% sure.

it would be great to hear alan's take on including fat or a whey/casein mix (as opposed to only whey as the protein source) in a pwo meal. if anyone else has an opinion, i'm all ears.

sorry if this has been addressed already. thanks!

[TheWaffleIron]

Originally Posted by goldfinger81

it would be great to hear alan's take on including fat or a whey/casein mix (as opposed to only whey as the protein source) in a pwo meal. if anyone else has an opinion, i'm all ears.

sorry if this has been addressed already. thanks!

For the postWO meal, ample carbs and protein are most important. The specific source of each (e.g. whey and dextrose or steak and potatoes) comes down to personal preference.

Provided the above stipulation is met, fat in the postWO meal is fine. Unless the trainee completely depletes glycogen in a fasted state (not applicable to the vast majority of individuals), fat intake should not be an issue.

As for whey/casein, the argument is similar. Most likely, there is no need for a "fast-digesting" protein source. Any complete protein source will suffice. The specific type is based on personal preference.

[DavidKH]

Hey Alan I PM'ed you a couple days ago about BCAA's. I'm sure you have many PM's to answer but if you could hit me back with your stance on them so I can ask some questions that would be great!

[mimo]

Originally Posted by TheWaffleIron

For the postWO meal, ample carbs and protein are most important. The specific source of each (e.g. whey and dextrose or steak and potatoes) comes down to personal preference.

Provided the above stipulation is met, fat in the postWO meal is fine. Unless the trainee completely depletes glycogen in a fasted state (not applicable to the vast majority of individuals), fat intake should not be an issue.

As for whey/casein, the argument is similar. Most likely, there is no need for a "fast-digesting" protein source. Any complete protein source will suffice. The specific type is based on personal preference.

My stance on this is: Don't bother!

Everybody was preaching that you can't have fat on youre post-workout meal, or your mucles would collapse. This study confirms that you can, in fact, have a bit of fat with your potW meal. If it doesn't have fat, it's ok. If it has a bit, it's ok.


How would the glycogen depletion influence your fat intake, making it bad?

[mimo]

Originally Posted by Vig16

Yea, he was saying that I WIL NOT have enough meals (energy) in me at 5:00 A.M. in order to have a good workout. For some reason, I feel as though I have more energy for my workout if I lift in the early A.M. as oppose to the evening because I feel more drained from my daily activities at work or whatever throughout the day. Everyone is obviously different with this though?

I?m definitely going to bring up the fact that I would have more ?post workout? meals to fuel recovery and see what he says to that. I never thought of it that way, but it definitely makes sense, lol.

And Richie, I couldn?t agree with you more. I figure if it works, then why try to fix it?

You're trainer is an idiot. You answered your own question with your personal experience.

[airnzah]

hey Alan, everyone. just wanna get your thoughts on this one:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...ng/gflux_redux

not so "revolutionary", but kinda makes sense. what's your opinion?

[CoQ10]

Originally Posted by airnzah

hey Alan, everyone. just wanna get your thoughts on this one:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...ng/gflux_redux

not so "revolutionary", but kinda makes sense. what's your opinion?

Sure, manipulating training volume is a great way to reach your goal. However, he's trying to make common sense sound totally revolutionary.

Also, several of the "10 Habits" laid out at Precision Nutrition are nonsense.

Just my opinion.

-C10

[Jo3ey]

Wow! I have read almost this entire thread and I would just like to say one thing.... Thank You!

[Julian_H]

Originally Posted by airnzah

hey Alan, everyone. just wanna get your thoughts on this one:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...ng/gflux_redux

not so "revolutionary", but kinda makes sense. what's your opinion?

Originally Posted by CoQ10

Sure, manipulating training volume is a great way to reach your goal. However, he's trying to make common sense sound totally revolutionary.

Also, several of the "10 Habits" laid out at Precision Nutrition are nonsense.

Just my opinion.

-C10

typical t-nation. at least there wasn't any baseless fruit and pb bashing