Pre, During, & Postworkout Nutrition.

[alan aragon]

Originally Posted by nads786

what do you think of this macro breakdown for a slow bulk

5"10 175-180


P: 186
C: 286
F: 110

do you think the fat is too high?

Tough to say. Only your personal history will tell you the potential answer to this, and putting the plan to trial will tell you the actual answer.

[Madevilz]

Other than Whey and Creatine Monohydrate, are their any supplements that you recommend Alan?

[alan aragon]

Originally Posted by Madevilz

Other than Whey and Creatine Monohydrate, are their any supplements that you recommend Alan?

A cheap multi, fish oil for those who don't eat fish, and a calcium/magnesium/vit D supp for those who can't have dairy.

[mar999]

Originally Posted by alan aragon

A cheap multi, fish oil for those who don't eat fish, and a calcium/magnesium/vit D supp for those who can't have dairy.

About how much fish oil do you recommend per day? What do you think of essential amino acid and bcaa supps

[CoQ10]

Originally Posted by mar999

What do you think of essential amino acid and bcaa supps

Unnecessary for bodybuilding purposes, provided your protein intake is sufficient.

(IMO).

-C10

[alan aragon]

Originally Posted by mar999

About how much fish oil do you recommend per day? What do you think of essential amino acid and bcaa supps

Most healthy folks can benefit from as little as 1.2g fish oil. Triacylglycerol lowering effects occur roughly in the 6-12g range (yielding 2-4g combined EPA/DHA). In summary, most healthy folks don't need more than 3-6g/day, and regular consumers of fatty fish need less to none depending on intake. As for what I think about EAA & BCAA supps, most high-quality protein sources contain 40-50% EAA. Animal proteins range from 18-26% BCAA. Even soy protein is 18% BCAA. Suppemental EAA & BCAA beyond what's already present in a typical athlete's protein-rich diet will very likely do nothing other than get your wallet contest-lean.

[Madevilz]

I know some of the members here answered this question, but Id like to hear it from you. Intraworkout supps seem to be the new trend, most have whey/casein hydro, B-A, electrolytes, a bit of carbs, BCAA/EAA. What is your opinion on them?

[mar999]

Originally Posted by alan aragon

Most healthy folks can benefit from as little as 1.2g fish oil. Triacylglycerol lowering effects occur roughly in the 6-12g range (yielding 2-4g combined EPA/DHA). In summary, most healthy folks don't need more than 3-6g/day, and regular consumers of fatty fish need less to none depending on intake. As for what I think about EAA & BCAA supps, most high-quality protein sources contain 40-50% EAA. Animal proteins range from 18-26% BCAA. Even soy protein is 18% BCAA. Suppemental EAA & BCAA beyond what's already present in a typical athlete's protein-rich diet will very likely do nothing other than get your wallet contest-lean.

Thanks!

[Julian_H]

Originally Posted by Madevilz

I know some of the members here answered this question, but Id like to hear it from you. Intraworkout supps seem to be the new trend, most have whey/casein hydro, B-A, electrolytes, a bit of carbs, BCAA/EAA. What is your opinion on them?

the bolded part is key. unless you're training for hours on end, there's no need for a supp during your workout as the preworkout meal will take care of energy and nutrient optimization. if marathon style training is your thing, you could incorporate some carbohydrates, gatorade or fruit would suffice.

[TheWaffleIron]

Originally Posted by Julian_H

unless you're training for hours on end, there's no need for a supp during your workout as the preworkout meal will take care of energy and nutrient optimization. if marathon style training is your thing, you could incorporate some carbohydrates, gatorade or fruit would suffice.

repped

[WhiteDiamonds]

Originally Posted by TheWaffleIron

You don't necessarily need to fit a meal immediately after training. If a whole meal can be eaten within an hour of training, then you're fine.

Do you have enough carbs? Right now you're at 40 - 50 g total.



The source of carbs is less important than is getting sufficient amounts.

Sweet potato, oats, rice, milk, banana none of these will make the difference with recovery? Just focus on how many grams of carbs I will need post workout?

[TheWaffleIron]

Originally Posted by WhiteDiamonds

Sweet potato, oats, rice, milk, banana none of these will make the difference with recovery? Just focus on how many grams of carbs I will need post workout?

The differences in recovery resulting from comparable energy servings of potatoes, oats, etc versus WMS will be negligible. The choice of postWO carbs comes down to personal preference.

That said, commonly used postWO carb sources such as WMS and dextrose are extremely processed and essentially void of nutrients. Potatoes, oats, fruit, etc have a far greater nutrient density.

[Julian_H]

Originally Posted by WhiteDiamonds

Sweet potato, oats, rice, milk, banana none of these will make the difference with recovery? Just focus on how many grams of carbs I will need post workout?

i've been known to go to subway immediately after training. absolutely no difference in recovery.

[imccarthy]

Originally Posted by Julian_H

i've been known to go to subway immediately after training. absolutely no difference in recovery.

Lol nice... reps.

[louie]

Hey, haven't been in this thread for awhile, glad to see it is still going strong. This thread helped me clean up my diet.



Question for Alan: Everytime I have tried cutting, it has ended in failure. Losing weight is easy for me since I'm an ectomorph, but my body fat percentage basically does not change at all while cutting. I have always wanted to see my abs, do my genetics just not allow me to get below a certain body fat percentage?

[Julian_H]

Originally Posted by louie

Hey, haven't been in this thread for awhile, glad to see it is still going strong. This thread helped me clean up my diet.



Question for Alan: Everytime I have tried cutting, it has ended in failure. Losing weight is easy for me since I'm an ectomorph, but my body fat percentage basically does not change at all while cutting. I have always wanted to see my abs, do my genetics just not allow me to get below a certain body fat percentage?

hey louie, i'm sure alan would help but my guess is his hands are full working on this month's AARR. there could be a lot of things holding you back, including your total calorie intake, training intensity, etc. genetics won't stop you from being below 10% body fat, or whatever it takes to get washboard abs. what genetics may determine is how low your body fat must be for them to be visible. i'm sitting at 9% and mine are almost non-existent because a large portion of my body fat accumulates below my waist and ass.

throw us some info on your cutting routine and diet, and i or one of the knowledgeable members can work with you. with limited information, the only advice i can give is be patient and don't lose more than a pound per week.

[atdcs]

I aplogize now for the extremely long question, but I am quite confused with all of options of supplements and I want something that will hopefully work.

OK, so just a little back ground here, I have tried a few different things, I was using NO-XPLODE for pre work out, and ISO MASS XTREME GAINER for after workout never really saw a lot of results but I did feel the NO-XPLODE's energy. I also tried Hydroxycut hardcore for burning fat.

So what Im looking for is a complete supplement list that I can practically live off of, Im in university I usually cant eat very healthy so im lookin for the complete list of supplements for building muscle, burning fat and staying healthy.

Im 5'10" 155lbs and my workout goes like this...4:45am get up,Run 5-6:15, Gym 6:20ish-7:30, 30ishkm bike. ive been doing this for a little over a year and have been workin out for just about 2 years.

OK so finally the question...What is the best combination of supplements I can put together. I know I want atleast a protein and creatine, but I am up to anything here. I was kind of thinking about getting almost everything BSN has, NO xplode, cellmass, nitrix, volumaize, as well as 100%whey protein, animal multivitamin as well as the hydroxycut hardcore i still have. (yah probablly to much...???)

I also did some reading on this forum and read about how running can be bad first thing in the morning without food, and I was wondering what I could do about that because it is high intesnity. should I get a weight vest? or would any of these supplements solve that problem?

Thank You.

[Richie]

Originally Posted by WhiteDiamonds

How do you feel about the use of honey and rice cakes post workout?
I have trouble recovering on leg day. Strawberries and whey doesn't cut it for me. I have tried dextrose and stopped losing fat. I'm on a 40/40/20 diet.

We have creamed honey here in Australia. Not sure if you have it in the USA though.

I love that on rice cakes with cottage cheese. Very tasty combination and one of the few ways i can tolerate cottage cheese.

R

[louie]

Originally Posted by Julian_H

hey louie, i'm sure alan would help but my guess is his hands are full working on this month's AARR. there could be a lot of things holding you back, including your total calorie intake, training intensity, etc. genetics won't stop you from being below 10% body fat, or whatever it takes to get washboard abs. what genetics may determine is how low your body fat must be for them to be visible. i'm sitting at 9% and mine are almost non-existent because a large portion of my body fat accumulates below my waist and ass.

throw us some info on your cutting routine and diet, and i or one of the knowledgeable members can work with you. with limited information, the only advice i can give is be patient and don't lose more than a pound per week.

Alright, I appreciate the response.

Currently I'm still bulking slowly and very clean. I want to start planning and researching my cut in advance so that I don't lose all of muscle again. For this bulk, I started counting calories and keeping track of macros on top of eating healthy. It has worked fairly well, as I haven't gained as much fat this bulk as I usually do.

When bulking in the past, I would basically eat anything and everything as my metabolism is insanely high. When I was ready to cut, I would basically just start to eat slightly less and add a lot more cardio. My body just seems to drop off the muscle like it is its job. Now I know that that was not the right way to cut, and I am much more disciplined now and my diet is healthy and calculated. The thing is, my bodyfat seems to almost always be about the same no mattter what I do. Even after a dirty bulk it didn't seem much different than after I did a make-shift cut. Maybe I am just paranoid and it will work this time since my diet is carefully calculated. I gain muscle very slowly, so I can't allow myself to lose everything for nothing another time.

[cmack777]

Correct me if i am wrong. I understand that some bodybuilders take protein before a workout and others after a workout. I usually do after. However i try to wait about an hour later after the workout. i try to eat a fruit or drink a gatoride for the muscle repair. Some bodybuilders say to take protein right after the workout. I guess it's individual. I feel that for me it's more effective when i wait an hour later.

[Julian_H]

Originally Posted by cmack777

Correct me if i am wrong. I understand that some bodybuilders take protein before a workout and others after a workout. I usually do after. However i try to wait about an hour later after the workout. i try to eat a fruit or drink a gatoride for the muscle repair. Some bodybuilders say to take protein right after the workout. I guess it's individual. I feel that for me it's more effective when i wait an hour later.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=3088

[Julian_H]

Originally Posted by louie

Alright, I appreciate the response.

Currently I'm still bulking slowly and very clean. I want to start planning and researching my cut in advance so that I don't lose all of muscle again. For this bulk, I started counting calories and keeping track of macros on top of eating healthy. It has worked fairly well, as I haven't gained as much fat this bulk as I usually do.

When bulking in the past, I would basically eat anything and everything as my metabolism is insanely high. When I was ready to cut, I would basically just start to eat slightly less and add a lot more cardio. My body just seems to drop off the muscle like it is its job. Now I know that that was not the right way to cut, and I am much more disciplined now and my diet is healthy and calculated. The thing is, my bodyfat seems to almost always be about the same no mattter what I do. Even after a dirty bulk it didn't seem much different than after I did a make-shift cut. Maybe I am just paranoid and it will work this time since my diet is carefully calculated. I gain muscle very slowly, so I can't allow myself to lose everything for nothing another time.

i personally go for brief walks and don't incorporate cardio until i'm at least halfway through the fat loss cycle. the idea is to constantly challenge my body by upping the intensity. keep your protein intake the same and refrain from going super low-fat or low-carb.

[airnzah]

hey Alan, if you have time, maybe you can lend a hand on this thread. it's become very interesting in there, but someone who has the credentials needs to highjack it & lay the verdict!

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=111064301

[dEntremont]

I like the statement Alan made when he was reviewing fasted cardio, LISS and HIIT. Now I'm paraphrasing here so correct me if I'm wrong but what he said really made sense to me.

In essence what he said was that you don't worry about how much muscle you are building during your workout, so why worry about how much fat you are burning during cardio? It's how your body responds after that matters.

[atdcs]

Thanks for the info
So what should I eat at 4:45 before I run?

Ive heard about eating some fruit, and ive heard about having a smaller amount of protein shake but with milk and you can even whip it or somethin like that? I have a fairly strong stomach, so anything that works, ill do.

But if I were to get a weight vest would that fix the problem? Ive been thinking about getting one anyways...

Thanks

[Richie]

Originally Posted by thomson2008

Most fitness buffs, claim that working out on an empty stomach helps to burn more fat. The opposite is true. If you are not taking time needed to eat a proper meal in preparation for your workout, then you could be doing more harm than good to your overall fitness goals. It?s important to fuel your body with the right nutrients to gain muscle strength, endurance, and recovery.

__________________________________________________ ______

I have been training at 4:00 in the morning on an empty stomach for quite a while now and having great sessions.

The other morning i thought i'd experiment with the pre w/o guidelines Alan has outlined re: protein and carbs. (specifically whey shake and bananas)

I got a great pump anf felt i had loads of energy but an hour in my energy, strength, motivation etc. was finished completely.

I normally finish with a bit of energy left and lately (as it's close to summer here) i've split my body into 4 instead of 3 and added cardio and abs after my weights. I got on the bike for less than 2 minutes and realised there was no way i could benefit from doing anything else today.

I could barely keep my eyes open on the drive home and had to lie down for a while to recover once i got home. I had no desire to eat or down a shake whatsoever and actually felt a bit sick!!

I'd spent quite a bit of time reading through this thread and it made a lot of sense to me but the results were disastrous.

Anyway, the last few weeks i've been having a huge bowl of fibrous veges an hour or so before bed and if i'm training the following morning i have a sweet potato or potato or both and this is definitely all the fuel i need for my workouts.

My point: if you find what works then keep doing it no matter how much sense the contrary makes. No disrespect to Alan at all. My post workout oats and whey (which is working great) came from his guidelines.

[atdcs]

Alright thanks, Ill probablly start experimenting with some different things to see what happens, and what works.

But im also concerned with what is actually better more then what feels better, because if im burning muscle and then trying to build muscle...I dont wanna do that. Is there other things that are good to eat before bed?

Thanks

[Julian_H]

Originally Posted by atdcs

Thanks for the info
So what should I eat at 4:45 before I run?

Ive heard about eating some fruit, and ive heard about having a smaller amount of protein shake but with milk and you can even whip it or somethin like that? I have a fairly strong stomach, so anything that works, ill do.

But if I were to get a weight vest would that fix the problem? Ive been thinking about getting one anyways...

Thanks

eat a respectable meal 1-2 hours before cardio for optimal energy and an increased thermic effect caused by digestion.

Originally Posted by atdcs

Alright thanks, Ill probablly start experimenting with some different things to see what happens, and what works.

But im also concerned with what is actually better more then what feels better, because if im burning muscle and then trying to build muscle...I dont wanna do that. Is there other things that are good to eat before bed?

Thanks

how about a nice glass of milk before bed?

mid-terms are coming up, so i'll be on a brief hiatus. adios amigos.

[djansen]

Originally Posted by Julian_H

mid-terms are coming up, so i'll be on a brief hiatus. adios amigos.

good luck bro.

[Vig16]

Hey guys,

I was talking to a trainer at my gym today, and he told me that early morning workouts aren?t ideal for size and strength gains, as you don?t have time to get proper nutrition in. His reasoning was that A.M. workouts aren't ideal when it comes to weight training, and eating before is needed but that's going to take away from the meals the rest of the day causing timing/meal amount issues as well as having to wake and eat at least an hour before working out, and eating that much that early is not only hard, it's not realistic. He said that weight training at any time of the day other than that early with having to eat a pretty big meal an hour or more before is going to benefit you wonderfully, as he claims that the body needs a lot of fuel from meals over the course of the day.

I can understand some of that, but if one were to follow the guidelines that Alan suggests in this post, then don?t you think you could just have a liquid meal pre- and post- workout with the required guidelines and be OK?

Now, I go to the gym at 5:00 A.M. everyday, as that?s all that my schedule allows me to do as I work 8-5 and then go to class at night, as I?m a full-time grad student. Those classes run from 6:30-9:30 P.M. and my gym closes at 10:00 P.M., so I wouldn?t be able to lift after class either way. Do any of you have any suggestions?

Thanks!!