Who takes Soy Isolate protein?

[Icex999]

Originally posted by NeonX
Good post Ice. Now if only it didn't cost so much, almost a buck a serving.

You can get this stuff under $3.00 a pound at various sites, like proteincustomizer....

[Icex999]

Originally posted by Dave2003
one should NOT underestimate the power of the manufacturers of whey etc powders. it's THAT powerful.
American consumers are easy targets for marketing.

Good point. When even one company starts pushing anything, it will always make some sort of buzz in the fitness community.

So what about when 20+ companies start pimping it out?

[exhortae]

Originally posted by Dave2003
one should NOT underestimate the power of the manufacturers of whey etc powders. it's THAT powerful.
American consumers are easy targets for marketing.

the soy lobby is as big if not bigger than the dairy one, so I just don't see what point you're trying to make

sorry

[erowana]

Lets hear the soy lobbyists here.

[exhortae]

Originally posted by erowana
Lets hear the soy lobbyists here.

We already did, it was brought by Icex999 with that article who only talks about benefits and even forget to say that soy protein is an intermediate protein ( so you don't have the fast digestion of the whey nor the very slow one of the casein)

[Dave2003]

no, I'm talking here of protein POWDERS brands, not soy industry. unless proven otherwise, I don't see MASS MARKETING for soy protein isolates. don't forget this: behind protein powders brands, there is also the MASSIVE lobby of ..... milk industry and this one is going the nasty route of making milk especially the US milk from cows that are injected with growth hormone (bovine growth hormone). not sure though if this affect the whey, casein etc protein powders. the contrary argument would be also GM soy, that is genetically modified. in both cases, does it affect the powders we take ? THAT should be a good debate....

now, personally, I don't take soy in another form. just isolates for me. so you know.
ok, sometimes at the chinese restaurant

[kanan]

Do other types of beans such as black beans have the problems associated with soy beans?

[alpha]

soy was popular(if im not mistaken) long before whey and for a little longer. Has anyone had any problems with it? has anyone heard of anyone heard of anyone having problems with it? just curious.

[exhortae]

Originally posted by Dave2003
no, I'm talking here of protein POWDERS brands, not soy industry. unless proven otherwise, I don't see MASS MARKETING for soy protein isolates. don't forget this: behind protein powders brands, there is also the MASSIVE lobby of ..... milk industry and this one is going the nasty route of making milk especially the US milk from cows that are injected with growth hormone (bovine growth hormone). not sure though if this affect the whey, casein etc protein powders. the contrary argument would be also GM soy, that is genetically modified. in both cases, does it affect the powders we take ? THAT should be a good debate....

now, personally, I don't take soy in another form. just isolates for me. so you know.
ok, sometimes at the chinese restaurant

isolating a substance doesn't mean it get rids of all the other compounds injected to cows or the OGM in soy.


But for me it's not a problem as I buy my whey and casein in bulk from england (it's illegal to use hormon on cows in europe)


and OGM are also a reason why I won't take soy. Unless I'm 100% it comes from europe (no OGM here yet) and they settle that acid phytic issue with an added process.

[SupremeDan]

Hey been out of the forums for some time....MY monitor exploded....had to bauy a new one...lol.......

BEAUTIFUL POST icex.......I'm a soy protein and a soy isoflavones user.....ONLY GOOD RESULTS WITH it.....

[Icex999]

Originally posted by exhortae
We already did, it was brought by Icex999 with that article who only talks about benefits and even forget to say that soy protein is an intermediate protein ( so you don't have the fast digestion of the whey nor the very slow one of the casein)

What's your point with soy being an intermediate protein? Digestion time is only important for post-workout purposes (i guess it's important for those taking night-time protein shakes too), not general anabolic activity.

[exhortae]

Originally posted by Icex999
What's your point with soy being an intermediate protein? Digestion time is only important for post-workout purposes (i guess it's important for those taking night-time protein shakes too), not general anabolic activity.

it's pretty much useless in the morning and post training compared to whey.


and it's pretty much useless at night compared to casein.


So I don't when is it good to take soy as it's not fast enough and not slow enough. A blend of whey casein is more than sufficient for growth purposes and you don't need to include soy in it.


So when you put soy (and it's huge amount of phytat) VS whey+casein I don't see why one should consume soy over whey and casein.

[SupremeDan]

Whey is only good for post workout........END. The Problem is that the brain of this people is so limited that they just can't accepet new info!!!!

HEY EXHORTAE!!!!



About all the phytat....... I think they are all destroyed when the soy nuts are toasted....but I'm not sure about this.....(all soy products are made of toasted soy nuts...)
Anyways....If they are not destroyed.....What bad can they do to you??? I wonder how does south east asia have so many elderly people in there 90s ,100s,110s, and even on the 120 years old mark!!!! They eat soy like HELL!!!!! oh yeah...the phytat is killing them ...hahaha ....of course...

People participating in this thread....IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMNT!!

The DOCTOR told me that we are not supposed to disagree of EXHoRTAE's posts do to his limited closed mind!!!!!

SO don't take soy...the phytat is going to kill you FOR SURE!!!!

[SupremeDan]

Originally posted by exhortae
it's pretty much useless in the morning and post training compared to whey.


and it's pretty much useless at night compared to casein.


So I don't when is it good to take soy as it's not fast enough and not slow enough. A blend of whey casein is more than sufficient for growth purposes and you don't need to include soy in it.


So when you put soy (and it's huge amount of phytat) VS whey+casein I don't see why one should consume soy over whey and casein.

Basically you are saying that egg protein,red meat protein,fish protein and other proteins are useless....

You don't see why you should consume soy over whey and cassein???
Did you read the icex post?? sure ??

better kidness function, calcium preservation,better thiroid function, less strogen, GH releasing ( some what) , high glutamine,high arginine,less catabolism, no hormones, no lactose, You know what you are getting( doy you really know if the whey you are taking is really 100% isolate?? ), the cheapest protein around, health ,health,health oh and I forgot.......maybe you will get to live in the next century!!lol

Oh..I forgot what the doctor said....

Yeah...the phytat will jill you....south east asia is damned for all eternity!!!!!

[exhortae]

Originally posted by SupremeDan
Basically you are saying that egg protein,red meat protein,fish protein and other proteins are useless....

You don't see why you should consume soy over whey and cassein???
Did you read the icex post?? sure ??

better kidness function, calcium preservation,better thiroid function, less strogen, GH releasing ( some what) , high glutamine,high arginine,less catabolism, no hormones, no lactose, You know what you are getting( doy you really know if the whey you are taking is really 100% isolate?? ), the cheapest protein around, health ,health,health oh and I forgot.......maybe you will get to live in the next century!!lol

Oh..I forgot what the doctor said....

Yeah...the phytat will jill you....south east asia is damned for all eternity!!!!!

you"re accusing me of not reading icex post while you obviuosly didn't read mine,

well here's a little reminder of one of my previous posts :

Long Fermenting Process Required (like for Miso or Tempeh):

although the act of fermenting soybeans does deactivate both trypsin inhibitors & hemagglutinin, .. precipitation & cooking, do Not.

even though the enzyme inhibitors are reduced in levels within precipitated soy products like tofu, they are not altogether eliminated.

only after a Long Period of Fermentation (as in the creation of Miso or Tempeh) are the phytate & "antinutrient" levels of soybeans reduced, making their nourishment available to the human digestive system.




chinese eat most of their soy product after a fermentation process which is not the case with soy protein isolat and no toaasting doesn't destroy the phytat. And phytat is known to inhints absorption of calcium
red meat and protein fish are slow release proteins if you didn't know.

about my whey isolat and how do I know if it's whey isolat, pretty simple like I said it comes to me as a 25 kg (55 lbs) double lined closed bag with the name of the product and the name of the manufacturer with his phone number (same as the casein and the maltodextrin ) I buy.


I just call then the manufaccturer give him the serial number on the back and ask him if it's from them andd if it's 100% whey isolat. The manufacturer is the same that big supp companies buy from (optimum, prolab) so believe me when I say I'm 100% sure that I only take whey protein isolat

also with isolating a substance most of the ash is pricipitated with this substcance and you end up with a huge amount of phytat that you can't compare with natural soy bean as pricpitaion of protein often is correlated with minerals precipitation.


PS : Chill out a bit, it's not a fighting club here,


and about your comment about what doctors says, I don't listen to them and what is uneder my nick (the french doctor) only means that I'm from france (to explain my poor english) and to say that I like playind the doctor with girls. that's all sorry for the confusion.

[alpha]

Read this:
http://www.brinkzone.com/soy.html

Conclusion: "Taking all of the above information on soy protein that we have looked at in this article I think we come up with something of a dilemma for the bodybuilder. For the average person, there is no real dilemma here as they don't care much about protein quality. Unfortunately, if a bodybuilder starts to replace too much of the other high quality proteins in their diet in favor of soy to reap some of the potential benefits of soy, than he (or she) runs the risk of losing muscle due to this lower quality protein. This would be particularly noticeable during a reduction in calories (i.e.dieting). The lower the calorie intake the higher the quality of protein needs to be to maintain lean body mass. Make no mistake about it, soy protein does not have the nitrogen retaining, anti catabolic, muscle building abilities of proteins such as whey, whole egg, red meat, etc. However, soy does appear to have some other real benefits to the bodybuilder. So what do we do? So far, it appears that a person does not need to eat a great deal of soy protein isolate to get the benefits. Estimates of ten - thirty grams a day of a high quality soy protein isolate should do the trick for most people.

This is how I solve the dilemma and I have found this strategy works well for people. By mixing a high quality whey protein powder with a high quality soy isolate in a 2:1 ratio and eating that two - three times a day, the bodybuilder can have the best of all possible worlds (as it relates to the high BV, immune enhancing, nitrogen retaining abilities of the whey and the cholesterol lowering/thyroid stimulating abilities of the soy). To date, I have no reason to believe that mixing these two proteins will negate or interfere with the benefits or properties of either protein, but there is scant research in this area with healthy athletes. Anecdotally, the people I have told to do this mixture have given me mostly positive feedback so far."
"(1) Though thyroid hormones are considered catabolic hormones, they are actually more catabolic to fat and carbohydrates, but stimulate protein synthesis if adequate calories are eaten and the amounts of thyroid hormones are not to high. This could be useful for increasing protein synthesis and reducing bodyfat. More research needs to be done in this area of course. "

[Lietuvis]

yep, soy protein works great...

[naturalbb2000]

For muscle building you don't need to totally avoid soy buy I wouldn't make it you main source of protein.
http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=236