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  1. #1
    Registered User trudawg's Avatar
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    Whats the major dirrences in Keto, Atkins & South Beach

    Can someone break it down for me?
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    Atkins is a high protein low carb diet; it burns protein for fuel along with some fat. However for weight lifters this doesn’t make since because muscle is protein and you could loose some in the process of dieting.

    Keto is a high fat low carb diet that puts you into the process of ketosis. It ketosis protein is spared and fat is the main fuel source for the body (both dietary and stored). So on a keto diet plan you can expect to loose fat and spare muscle.

    I don’t know what south beach is.
    -

    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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    Incorrect info on Atkins. It is a high fat diet. No where does he suggest we should burn protein for fuel.
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  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by IraHays View Post
    Incorrect info on Atkins. It is a high fat diet. No where does he suggest we should burn protein for fuel.
    Mm I could be mistaken but unless you’re in ketosis your body will be more apt to burn protein before it burns stored fat. It always wants to burn its dietary intake before stored fat.
    -

    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by GTLifter View Post
    Mm I could be mistaken but unless you’re in ketosis your body will be more apt to burn protein before it burns stored fat. It always wants to burn its dietary intake before stored fat.
    The goal of Atkins is to get you in Ketosis. It seems very similar to the Keto diet, except for the carb cycling part. (Or is carb cycling optional?)

    Atkins is more strick on what you can eat. Like, no bread of any kind and none of any certain types of fruit. Atkins was obsessed with keeping blood sugar levels from rising.

    After the initial induction phase and after you reach your desired weight, he recommended carb ranges from 50-100 grams a day. The amount depended on what level you started gaining weight.
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  6. #6
    Registered User GTLifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IraHays View Post
    The goal of Atkins is to get you in Ketosis. It seems very similar to the Keto diet, except for the carb cycling part. (Or is carb cycling optional?)

    Atkins is more strick on what you can eat. Like, no bread of any kind and none of any certain types of fruit. Atkins was obsessed with keeping blood sugar levels from rising.

    After the initial induction phase and after you reach your desired weight, he recommended carb ranges from 50-100 grams a day. The amount depended on what level you started gaining weight.
    Well I do stand corrected; keto is actually no fruit period. Carb cycling is optional but to be honest I choose too simply because no one knows the long term effect of ketosis is on a persons liver.
    -

    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by GTLifter View Post
    Well I do stand corrected; keto is actually no fruit period. Carb cycling is optional but to be honest I choose too simply because no one knows the long term effect of ketosis is on a persons liver.
    No fruit at all on Keto? I did not know that, I just thought Keto was a low carb/high fat diet but cycled in higher carb periods for athletes?

    Looks like I should read some stickies....
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  8. #8
    Registered User TheCaptain's Avatar
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    Here are the basics, really simple basics:

    Original Atkins

    There are two phases. During these phases, you will eat whenever you are hungry, you eat until you are satisfied (not full). You should walk 30 minutes a day, 3 times a week. You eat mostly high fat foods.

    Phase 1, called Induction, lasts for 14 days. During that time you limit your total carb intake to 20g, of which 15g of that comes from salads.

    Phase 2, called Ongoing Weightloss, lasts until you reach your weightloss goals. You begin by adding 5g of carbs each week until you reach a point where weightloss stops, then reduce your carbs slightly. Maintain your carb intake at that point. If weightloss stops at any time, then simply repeat Induction Phase.



    New Atkins

    Basically same thing except some variations.

    1. You are limited to eating 3 large meals or 4 to 5 small meals.

    2. There are now four phases. The new third phase involves adding 10g of carbs each week until you stop losing weight, at that point you reduce the carbs slightly and maintain that level. The new fourth phase is lifetime maintenance with its goal to keep your weight within 5 lbs. When you gain weight you simply repeat induction phase and progress again toward this phase.

    3. They recommend taking Atkins supplements.

    ________________________________________

    South Beach Diet

    There are three phases. South Beach focuses on healthy fats and healthy carbs. But, a lot of emphasis is placed on low-fat, lean meats rather then fatty meats etc. You eat 3 meals a day and are allowed 2 snacks (smaller meals).

    Phase 1, lasts for 14 days. During this time you eliminate "all" carbs.

    Phase 2, lasts until you achieve your ideal bodyweight. During this phase some banned foods (specific carb foods) are slowly introduced. Should you stop losing weight, then you would cut back on some of these banned foods until weight loss continues.

    Phase 3, is ongoing maintenance. Simply you maintain a carb level that neither causes you to lose weight or gain weight. Should you gain weight, you repeat phase 1 through 3 again.

    ________________________________________

    Differences?


    During Induction, Atkins limits carbs to 20g while South Beach prohibits all carbs.

    Atkins allows eating whenever hungry while South Beach specifies 3 meals and 2 snacks.

    Atkins promotes eating all fats and keto foods (meat, cheese etc) while South Beach only allows eating "healthy fats' and lowfat/lean keto foods.

    When reintroducing carbs to the diet, atkins focuses on adding 5g per week of carbs and doesnt restrict what carb foods you eat (ie. potatoes, soda, ice cream etc). South Beach has a specific list of "healthy carb foods" that are called Banned Foods, which you are allowed to select from and reintroduce one at a time (ie. apples, oranges, oatmeal, brocolli etc).

    South Beach recommends moderate exercise and weight training 3-5 times a week. Atkins only recommends moderate exercise 3 times a week.
    _________________________________________

    The most significant differences are that Atkins focuses on limiting carbs during various phases and recommends eating high fat (no matter what kind of fat it is). While south beach focuses on limiting specific kinds of fats and carbs and recommends eating healthy fats and healthy carbs.
    _________________________________________

    My recommendation, well i think Atkins is easier to follow but South Beach is healthier.
    Last edited by TheCaptain; 02-13-2007 at 08:18 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by GTLifter View Post
    Well I do stand corrected; keto is actually no fruit period. Carb cycling is optional but to be honest I choose too simply because no one knows the long term effect of ketosis is on a persons liver.

    ketosis is a natural state, before modern age ketosis was very common for long periods of time. Why else would our body switch so easily into it after only a day or so running full steam ahead? also normal people can get ketones in the blood too after a hard long workout on a high carb diet.
    If there was a problem you would know quickly, i.e. going into ketoacidosis.
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    Carbsthe Fat Man's Poison Druluv75's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheCaptain View Post
    Here are the basics, really simple basics:
    My recommendation, well i think Atkins is easier to follow but South Beach is healthier.
    Atkin believes all fat is healthy except for trans fat. Highly refined flour and sugar is way more dangerous than saturated fat.

    The real problem is mixing refined flour & sugar with fats. The body uses the some of the sugar and flour for fuel, then stores the remaining sugar and fat as bodyfat. By taking out carbs out of our meals, we burn fat as fuel.
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    Originally Posted by grapemaster View Post
    ketosis is a natural state, before modern age ketosis was very common for long periods of time. Why else would our body switch so easily into it after only a day or so running full steam ahead? also normal people can get ketones in the blood too after a hard long workout on a high carb diet.
    If there was a problem you would know quickly, i.e. going into ketoacidosis.
    I was more focusing on the return of normal liver function and glycogen synthesis once you leave ketosis if you’re on it for a prolonged period of time.
    -

    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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    if the liver can rebuild the tissues in itself after chronic alcohol abuse I'm quite sure it can adapt after a natural metabolic state. other organs aren't so good at this.
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    In hunter-gather societies, the diet is mostly keto, but at certain times, there will be lots of fruit, berries, root veg or even honey available. Our bodies are pretty good at coping with this.

    Personally, I don't like the South Beach good fat/bad fat thing, which I'm convinced they've got them the wrong way round. Saturated fats are good for you, and we should be very careful with all non-fish polyunsaturates.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Personally, I don't like the South Beach good fat/bad fat thing, which I'm convinced they've got them the wrong way round. Saturated fats are good for you, and we should be very careful with all non-fish polyunsaturates.
    yeah we are one of the few if any other animals eating them...
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    Registered User trudawg's Avatar
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    totally off-topic I know but.................Can you eat hot wings on the Keto diet. I only ask because I was reading someone's diet and and it listed buffalo wings as one of their foods. Un-breaded of course, but the ingrediants are fried (plain) wings mixed in a Red Hot, and margerine sauce
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    Hot wings are fine, margarine is not. Stick to butter.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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    u dont even need to fry them, bake covered, drain the juice, then broil uncovered on a pan, will be crispy. i would also drop the margarine, on any diet... trans fat yum.
    Last edited by grapemaster; 02-13-2007 at 01:51 PM.
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    Southbeach works great. I recomend it to anyone that doesn't work out much. One the first phase you have zero energy. I did phase one for 4 weeks, and lost 18lbs. Phase two, you have enough energy to light work-outs and cardio. I lost 10lbs in 4 weeks on this phase. I never really made it to phase 3. It's hard to tell, but I kind of already lived on phase 3. There is a lot of freedom there.

    The problem with phase two is that the diet is so loose by then it is super easy to cheat.

    I did the diet because my boss and his wife do it, and they loose weight okay, but they cheat like crazy. Very small cheats like having a glass on wine every night on phase one. Where you aren't suppose to be drinking at all. When those two get to phase two, they pretty much don't know what they can have. She is in the office right now drinking a big 'ol starbucks mochachino
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    Originally Posted by Koolhaas View Post
    Southbeach works great. I recomend it to anyone that doesn't work out much.
    hmmm we are on a bodybuilding forum though.
    @__@
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  20. #20
    Fortified With Iron gfundaro's Avatar
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    I asked my Biology teacher about this today, because we're covering biochemistry and I was curious about the affects of ketosis on glycolysis...he said ketosis would affect glycolysis, (although it's impossible to completely avoid glucose), and that it's really hard on the kidneys. So I'd say the carb cycling really is a better idea, and no we aren't naturally accustomed to entering ketosis. It only happens when we begin to starve, and ketones are harmful to our bodies. He said that ketotic diets are most likely dangerous in the long-term.
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    Registered User BeejGrpA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gfundaro View Post
    I asked my Biology teacher about this today, because we're covering biochemistry and I was curious about the affects of ketosis on glycolysis...he said ketosis would affect glycolysis, (although it's impossible to completely avoid glucose), and that it's really hard on the kidneys. So I'd say the carb cycling really is a better idea, and no we aren't naturally accustomed to entering ketosis. It only happens when we begin to starve, and ketones are harmful to our bodies. He said that ketotic diets are most likely dangerous in the long-term.
    u really are posting in the wrong forum, and honestly this isnt a flame, but lets take into account the inuit diet, perhaps the infants diet before weined etc etc.....never hav they're been kidney issues there.

    if were not naturally accustomed to entering ketosis, why is it that several cultures in the past have survived in such a state. and the theory that we have "microevolved" beyond that is rediculous, metabolic function can not change that drastically in the space of a few thousand years. i can enter ketosis in under 2 days whilst still eating over 3000 calories id hardly call that starving myself, and id also say its a pretty good indication of being "accustomed"

    please explain to me, HOW in a state of KETOSIS, ketones are HARMFUL to the body!??!?!?!?? this theory has no grounding and makes no sense

    as far as ur kidneys are concerned....bollocks. u'll get kidney damage on ANY diet if u dont drink enough water.

    as for ur opinion on long term damage, ask fitnessman how he feels

    once again, this isnt personal.....the one thing i can suggest is u google and use wikipedia as much as u can, study the biochemical processes of ketosis, and the biochemical process that takes place during a carb rich diet. THEN and only then, form ur own opinion on the facts, the scientific data and studies, rather than just assuming the opinion of a highschool teacher, or any nutritionist/scientiest/biologist or otherwise.

    an "expert" is exactly the same as u, they've just done a little more reading. if u do the reading, u can be as knowledgeable as them and come to ur own conclusion based on the facts without being jaded by conservative opinions of ppl scared of the unknown.
    "Just do the diet, lift hard and take pictures of yourself naked. As long as the scale is going down, your lifts are going up and your pix look good, ignore everything else." - Eileen

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    Originally Posted by trudawg View Post
    Can someone break it down for me?
    Same diet- different marketing angles.
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    Registered User TheCaptain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by grapemaster View Post
    hmmm we are on a bodybuilding forum though.

    LOL, i got into a big arguement in another area of this forum over the term "Bodybuilding" in a discussion on swimming..

    These days it seems when people hear the word "Body Building" that they instantly think muscle building and weight lifting.

    But, if you look at the beginning history of bodybuilding, they are lean and athletic looking and not everyone that competed, lifted weights.

    The way i see it, Body Building is about transforming your body into something, about developing your body etc. Whether its cardiovascular, endurance, strength, speed etc.

    So in a way, dieting to change the way you look, whether or not it involves exercise, is bodybuilding or building a better body.

    But thats my opinion :P
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    Registered User TheCaptain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gfundaro View Post
    I asked my Biology teacher about this today, because we're covering biochemistry and I was curious about the affects of ketosis on glycolysis...

    It only happens when we begin to starve, and ketones are harmful to our bodies. He said that ketotic diets are most likely dangerous in the long-term.


    A Biology Teacher, much less a medical doctor, is not going to have much knowledge on nutrition. Most professional careers, whether being a teacher or doctor or accountant or lawyer, has many grades of specialties. Sure they all may know the fundamentals of their career, but when it comes to specific, very specialized areas, they dont have the knowledge necessary to make logical decisions.

    You will learn this as you enter the work force. This is why each of these careers have to choose a specialty upon graduating. Whether your a Family Physician who specializes in treating common health ailments or an allergist who specializes in allergy and asthma, or a gastro-intestinal specialist who specializes in your digestive system etc. There are public accountants, state tax accountants, income tax accountants, property tax accountants etc. There are corporate lawyers, family lawyers, litigation lawyers, intellectual property lawyers, etc. There are commercial realtors, residential realtors, property management realtors etc.

    So with no pun intended, your teacher is not equiped to answer this question, nor am I. But, by studying the materials written by experts in these fields, you will learn more then the fundamentals that have been taught to your teacher in college.
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    Registered User trudawg's Avatar
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    didn't really wan to start another thread, but just wanted to share that since I initially asked this question I have lost 21 pounds! I weighed myself at the gym this weekend. I don't own a scale, and haven't been concerned about numbers because I could always see the results in the mirror, and in the xtra room in my pants. I haven't been really strict on all the meals, counting cals, and grams. I have just reduced carbs to 60 and below grams a day. and allow myself to eat more freely on the weekends. Also I take plenty of green tea.
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    Originally Posted by TheCaptain View Post
    LOL, i got into a big arguement in another area of this forum over the term "Bodybuilding" in a discussion on swimming..

    These days it seems when people hear the word "Body Building" that they instantly think muscle building and weight lifting.

    But, if you look at the beginning history of bodybuilding, they are lean and athletic looking and not everyone that competed, lifted weights.

    The way i see it, Body Building is about transforming your body into something, about developing your body etc. Whether its cardiovascular, endurance, strength, speed etc.

    So in a way, dieting to change the way you look, whether or not it involves exercise, is bodybuilding or building a better body.

    But thats my opinion :P
    Yeah, I agree, most think of the term "bodybuilding" as building muscle on the body, which sounds like it makes sense. Which is why I prefer to think of it as "body-transforming"
    LOL, internet
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