Ack! Just got my blood test results...

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

OK, edited for those who need total clarity:

"No, [too much] carbs. Or carbs + fat."

"To get trigs down start with cutting the carbs [if they are too high]. High trigs are a result of [high carb, good or bad] intake NOT FAT.

much better LOL

I think Tallgntlmn problem is the fast food sandwiches.. nothing healthy about a substandard piece of chicken wrapped by a 300cal sugar loaded piece of bread..

[RU4A69]

High Triglycerides are one of the surest indicators of early mortality and heart disease. Get all the sugar out of your diet NOW, and get on a low carb or ketogenic diet. Excess sugar from carbs causes high trigs, not dietary fat.

You're heading for the morgue my friend: you CAN turn things around though

[Tallgntlmn]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

those numbers are ****.

That TSH can indicate subclinical hypothyroidism, which can drive up total cholesterol, LDL, trigs and drive down HDL; T3 Uptake is about as useful as tits on a bull; he should have had Free T4 and Free T3; his triglycerides are horrid.

He needs a follow up testosterone test, and probably testosterone supplementation. Low testosterone can also throw blood lipids out of whack.

Wow, a lot of info here now. I'm still trying to sort through it. So next test should have Free T3 and Free T4 tested? Is there anything else that I should have looked at?

Originally Posted by Minotaur

And where is the CMP which includes blood glucose? Where is the fasting insulin level or oral glucose tolerance test? Have we ruled out Metabolic Syndrome, insulin resistance and/or (pre)diabetes?

I don't have the report handy at the moment, but I will post that info when I get home this evening.

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

well... there is your answer, eliminate the bacon and sausage and the fast food cut down or eliminate white flour, refined sugar and you will be making a big difference.. put more fibers in your diet (through fresh food not metamucil)

I know the fast food is an issue. But is once a week really too much for the bacon and sausage? I know that might sound like a silly question but seriously?

Originally Posted by maryinmesquite

i agree ,, i use a s/f whole wheat bread ,, i try not to eat anything white,,the mall is just around the corner from my office ,,, and yes i like to get out of the office too

When I have bread at home, it is usually the Arnold 12 grain with no HFCS. Unfortunately on the southeast side of Atlanta, there is not much for places to go. Luckily a friend of mine lives near here and I might be cooking lunch there soon.

Originally Posted by Minotaur

To get trigs down start with cutting the carbs. High trigs are a result of carb intake NOT FAT. I don't know the exact mechanism (I did once) for why carbs + fat = bad.

Carbs are a problem for me. When I analyze where they come from, it is from peaches, bananas, apples, orange juice, ON Whey, protein bars, etc. They generally do not come from chips, candy bars, etc. So if I have my peach/banana/oj drink in the morning and then 2 apples during the day, is that too many or the wrong kind?

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by Tallgntlmn

Wow, a lot of info here now. I'm still trying to sort through it. So next test should have Free T3 and Free T4 tested? Is there anything else that I should have looked at?

I'd say that's pretty much it to start with. Testosterone and thyroid and whacked out blood lipids usually go hand in hand.

Carbs are a problem for me. When I analyze where they come from, it is from peaches, bananas, apples, orange juice, ON Whey, protein bars, etc. They generally do not come from chips, candy bars, etc. So if I have my peach/banana/oj drink in the morning and then 2 apples during the day, is that too many or the wrong kind?

The whey and protein bars are not the problem imo. But those fruits and juices are highly concentrated sources of sugar. I don't care what the Florida Orange Board says about drinking lots of orange juice (hey, they're trying to sell it!). You're better off with berries if you like fruit. I love fruit but I limit myself to a handful of blueberries every now and again. And blackberries and raspberries when can afford them.

[Marius_Ursus]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

I'd say that's pretty much it to start with. Testosterone and thyroid and whacked out blood lipids usually go hand in hand.



The whey and protein bars are not the problem imo. But those fruits and juices are highly concentrated sources of sugar. I don't care what the Florida Orange Board says about drinking lots of orange juice (hey, they're trying to sell it!). You're better off with berries if you like fruit. I love fruit but I limit myself to a handful of blueberries every now and again. And blackberries and raspberries when can afford them.

Did someone say berries?



I'll echo that thought and not just because I'm a grizzly in man's clothing. The fiber in various berries (blueberries, blackberries, currants, raspberries, and all the rest) are specifically linked to lower LDL cholesterol levels while maintaining healthful levels of HDL cholesterol.

[Tallgntlmn]

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

I think Tallgntlmn problem is the fast food sandwiches.. nothing healthy about a substandard piece of chicken wrapped by a 300cal sugar loaded piece of bread..

Another one of my favorites may not be so hot either. It's 1/3 pound(3 servings) of Boar's Head chicken with a Coke Zero and one of these: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/pow/protplus.html. If I bring my own food, it's usually 2 chicken breasts cooked on the grill the night before.

[skywalker45]

X2 on everything Minotaur said. That testosterone number is horribly low which is likely helping to contribute to everything else being whacked. Cut all the refined sugars and carbs from your diet and eat ONLY whole foods, grains, etc. This will bring down the trigs faster than a low fat diet. Testosterone needs to be rechecked cause it's scraping the bottom of the lab basement. You'd probably feel much better if the test level was around 600. Also need to have E2 (estradiol) check. Get the ultra-sensitive assay for men. I'd bet it's high. Bringing it down will cause testosterone to go up. You can get it down with diet or sometimes you may need to take an AI drug for awhile.

I just can't believe that a doc might look at these results and say that they're okay with just a few problems. If my labs came back looking like that and my doc said to change this thing and it would be cool she would be fired. You are the boss, not your doc.

Eat almonds, natural peanut butter and olive oil in moderation and take fish oil caps. They will all raise HDL and help to lower trigs. Good luck to you.

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

I don't care what the Florida Orange Board says about drinking lots of orange juice (hey, they're trying to sell it!). You're better off with berries if you like fruit. I love fruit but I limit myself to a handful of blueberries every now and again. And blackberries and raspberries when can afford them.

Agreed sugar is sugar .. from fruit or from a box it's still sugar..
packaged OJ is concentrated with sugars even though they do not add any ..
I suppose is probably some fertilizer crap they feed the trees to increase their sugar content or the orange itself is probably a higher sugar content hybrid.. probably both

[Marius_Ursus]

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

Agreed sugar is sugar .. from fruit or from a box it's still sugar..
packaged OJ is concentrated with sugars even though they do not add any ..
I suppose is probably some fertilizer crap they feed the trees to increase their sugar content or the orange itself is probably a higher sugar content hybrid.. probably both

I just had this conversation with someone. Juice oranges have been bred for higher sugar content. Remember when we were kids and sometimes orange juice was sour?

[Minotaur]

It's more like selective breeding. Our paleo ancestors ate fruit only when it was in season, and nothing like what we have today. It was mostly wild berries. Now we can get fruit all year long and eat it all day long. There were no bananas or citrus fruits in the northern hemisphere. Wherever apples grew, they were small less sugary varieties. Most fruits as we know them are from the tropics and were not as sweet as today's varieties.

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by Tallgntlmn

I know the fast food is an issue. But is once a week really too much for the bacon and sausage? I know that might sound like a silly question but seriously? When I have bread at home, it is usually the Arnold 12 grain with no HFCS. Unfortunately on the southeast side of Atlanta, there is not much for places to go. Luckily a friend of mine lives near here and I might be cooking lunch there soon.

well normally it shouldn't be a problem but you have an issue and I would eliminate that 1st, along with the sugars..try and track down
your intake ..

Arnold might not have HFCS but have you looked at how much sugar they put in it ??.. I buy for the family an organic whole grain bread sugar is a whopping 5g per slice that's nearly a sugar packet per slice..
when I bake I use maybe .5gram of sugar per 3lb dough.. and that's to kickstart the fermentation in the yeast..

Alright .. 1 sugar packet is not much but add all the sugar you get in a day
juice, fruit, bread, coffee, tea, processed meats etc.. it's everywhere

The other thing if I understand correctly is that you haven't been dieting for long so you might be heading the right way , give it some more time

[Marius_Ursus]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

It's more like selective breeding. Our paleo ancestors ate fruit only when it was in season, and nothing like what we have today. It was mostly wild berries. Now we can get fruit all year long and eat it all day long. There were no bananas or citrus fruits in the northern hemisphere. Wherever apples grew, they were small less sugary varieties. Most fruits as we know them are from the tropics and were not as sweet as today's varieties.

Which is one of the main reasons I'm a local foods proponent. That crap that passes for produce in the grocery stores is a travesty.

[Minotaur]

I don't touch supermarket produce if at all possible. Maybe that's why I say I hate vegs. I guess I've never really had good vegs, except those that come from people's gardens. That stuff I could eat all day. We've got some tomatoes and peppers (bell and jalapeno) growing in containers on the deck. The tomatoes are not much bigger than a golf ball, but when I sliced one open, it was a red as it gets, and juicy. I sprinkled a little kosher salt, and down the hatch!

[Marius_Ursus]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

I don't touch supermarket produce if at all possible. Maybe that's why I say I hate vegs. I guess I've never really had good vegs, except those that come from people's gardens. That stuff I could eat all day. We've got some tomatoes and peppers (bell and jalapeno) growing in containers on the deck. The tomatoes are not much bigger than a golf ball, but when I sliced one open, it was a red as it gets, and juicy. I sprinkled a little kosher salt, and down the hatch!

It's truly amazing how much flavor a vine-ripened food has compared to the variety that's picked green and shipped in refrigerated containers. We have a "deck garden" too. Our dream is to have a home within the year where we can plant a good-sized garden and have fresh stuff to eat and give away.

Right off the vine and with a little salt (and a little olive oil).

Heaven.

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by Marius_Ursus

Which is one of the main reasons I'm a local foods proponent. That crap that passes for produce in the grocery stores is a travesty.

a travesty ?? that's an understatement LOL but hey people want cheap and they want choices so that's what we get in the supermarkets..

[Marius_Ursus]

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

a travesty ?? that's an understatement LOL but hey people want cheap and they want choices so that's what we get in the supermarkets..

I wish I could remember what I was watching not too long ago where one of the growers of "real food" said, "Anyone who says organic food is too expensive, grow up. That's the real cost of food. You're paying for what you eat instead of packaging, transportation, pesticides, and genetic modification."

I can't tell you how many times I've explained that you end up spending less because not only do you eat less because it fills you more, but you also spend less because the more organic small-farm foods we all eat, the less we'll be paying in other areas, like fuel and medicine.

[Tallgntlmn]

Originally Posted by skywalker45

X2 on everything Minotaur said. That testosterone number is horribly low which is likely helping to contribute to everything else being whacked.

Yeah, no doubt. Minotaur has given great info. Thanks man. I am concerned about that Test number. I was hoping it would be higher, but I had a sneaking suspicion it would be low.

Originally Posted by skywalker45

Cut all the refined sugars and carbs from your diet and eat ONLY whole foods, grains, etc. This will bring down the trigs faster than a low fat diet. Testosterone needs to be rechecked cause it's scraping the bottom of the lab basement. You'd probably feel much better if the test level was around 600. Also need to have E2 (estradiol) check. Get the ultra-sensitive assay for men. I'd bet it's high. Bringing it down will cause testosterone to go up. You can get it down with diet or sometimes you may need to take an AI drug for awhile.

Initially, I wanted to get the following: Total Test, Bioavailable Test, Free Test, sex hormone binding globulin, dihydrotestosterone, Estradiol (?ultrasensitive? assay for men), lh, FSH, Prolactin, Cortisol, Thyroid Panel, CBC, CMP, and Lipid Profile. The assistant was not sure what some of those were (go figure) and we didn't know if insurance would cover all of them. I took that list from a Google search that went to a forum about things we don't discuss here.

Originally Posted by skywalker45

Eat almonds, natural peanut butter and olive oil in moderation and take fish oil caps. They will all raise HDL and help to lower trigs. Good luck to you.

I eat a lot of almonds, they are too addicting. If I sautee chicken, I do it in olive oil. Sometimes I throw some natty peanut butter in my ON shake to make myself think I am having a Reese's cup.

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

Arnold might not have HFCS but have you looked at how much sugar they put in it ??

The other thing if I understand correctly is that you haven't been dieting for long so you might be heading the right way , give it some more time

I hadn't looked at the sugar content. I think there was a bread thread on here and I took the name and ran with it. I noticed no HFCS and "assumed" that it would be good for me. I don't really eat a lot of bread. It usually lasts 2 weeks or so.

You are correct, I have not been dieting very long in the grand scheme. I started eating better in January. Prior to that, I was eating fried fast food every day, chips at and after work, chips after dinner, candy bars whenever, etc. It was really horrible as far as diet goes. After I started reading here was when I began to take it more seriously and at least move toward a more healthy diet. I know it is not perfect. Considering where I started, it is like night and day.

[skywalker45]

Originally Posted by Tallgntlmn

Initially, I wanted to get the following: Total Test, Bioavailable Test, Free Test, sex hormone binding globulin, dihydrotestosterone, Estradiol (?ultrasensitive? assay for men), lh, FSH, Prolactin, Cortisol, Thyroid Panel, CBC, CMP, and Lipid Profile. The assistant was not sure what some of those were (go figure) and we didn't know if insurance would cover all of them. I took that list from a Google search that went to a forum about things we don't discuss here.

A good number of those are really unnecessary anyway, like SHBG and such. You really only need to know total T, bioavailable T, E2, LH, and FSH and a thyroid panel wouldn't hurt along with PSA and lipid profile. Minotaur knows much more about this than me but your T levels are definitely whacked. Mine are too though and I'm going back to my doc on the 18th of September. High LH and low T would say that your testis are not making enough T in response to LH, etc or that too much T is being converted to estradiol which is a bad thing. This is all very important stuff. You've got to have a good hormonal environment/profile to make the best progress you can.

[mike_sargent]

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

Agreed sugar is sugar .. from fruit or from a box it's still sugar..

I dunno about that, since there's glucose, fructose, and sucrose.

Personally, I don't find fruits a problem, but starch send my blood glucose soaring. (Starch is just long chains of glucose.) Whether it's white rice or brown, Wonder bread or whole grain with seeds, white potatoes, corn: it's all bad, as far as I can tell from my glucometer. (And my A1C is down three quarters of a percent since I started eating less starch!)

I haven't made a scientific study of it, but that's my impression, based on my personal experience.

[Marius_Ursus]

Originally Posted by mike_sargent

I dunno about that, since there's glucose, fructose, and sucrose.

Personally, I don't find fruits a problem, but starch send my blood glucose soaring. (Starch is just long chains of glucose.) Whether it's white rice or brown, Wonder bread or whole grain with seeds, white potatoes, corn: it's all bad, as far as I can tell from my glucometer.

I haven't made a scientific study of it, but that's my impression, based on my personal experience.

What's in question there is nutrient isolation vs. nutrient inclusion with everything else in the nutritional matrix in a whole food source. All sugar molecules aer pretty much the same, but that they're included with in a whole food changes how the body utilizes it.

[Tallgntlmn]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

And where is the CMP which includes blood glucose? Where is the fasting insulin level or oral glucose tolerance test? Have we ruled out Metabolic Syndrome, insulin resistance and/or (pre)diabetes?

Okay, here you go. I don't see fasting insulin level. Glucose, serum was 89mg/dL. I also do not see oral glucose tolerance test. Is it possible those could be called something else? This is a result page from Labcorp.

Originally Posted by skywalker45

A good number of those are really unnecessary anyway, like SHBG and such. You really only need to know total T, bioavailable T, E2, LH, and FSH and a thyroid panel wouldn't hurt along with PSA and lipid profile. Minotaur knows much more about this than me but your T levels are definitely whacked...You've got to have a good hormonal environment/profile to make the best progress you can.

I will definitely add those to the next test I have. I was curious about these levels because of the importance of hormones when it comes to building muscle.

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by Tallgntlmn

Okay, here you go. I don't see fasting insulin level. Glucose, serum was 89mg/dL. I also do not see oral glucose tolerance test. Is it possible those could be called something else? This is a result page from Labcorp.
I will definitely add those to the next test I have. I was curious about these levels because of the importance of hormones when it comes to building muscle.

That's a good fasting glucose. You'd know if you took an oral glucose tolerance test... they draw blood, you drink a sugar solution and wait 30 mins, they draw more blood, you wait 30 mins., they draw more blood... this goes on for either a two hour or five hour test. It's to test how your body handles a surge and drop in sugar.

[Tallgntlmn]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

That's a good fasting glucose. You'd know if you took an oral glucose tolerance test... they draw blood, you drink a sugar solution and wait 30 mins, they draw more blood, you wait 30 mins., they draw more blood... this goes on for either a two hour or five hour test. It's to test how your body handles a surge and drop in sugar.

Oh no, definitely didn't have that. I was in and out in 22 minutes. I only know that because I was barely over the 20 mins that it takes to cost money to park. Man, I would have been seriously ornery if I had to do that. At the point I was there, it was already 3 hours after when I should have had my breakfast and coffee. I was already getting extremely annoyed. I couldn't get to Starbucks quick enough that morning. LOL!

[maryinmesquite]

Originally Posted by Tallgntlmn

Oh no, definitely didn't have that. I was in and out in 22 minutes. I only know that because I was barely over the 20 mins that it takes to cost money to park. Man, I would have been seriously ornery if I had to do that. At the point I was there, it was already 3 hours after when I should have had my breakfast and coffee. I was already getting extremely annoyed. I couldn't get to Starbucks quick enough that morning. LOL!

i have had that test done and the stuff you drink is awful ,, chug it because if you stop , it is hard to finish it

[mike_sargent]

Originally Posted by Marius_Ursus

What's in question there is nutrient isolation vs. nutrient inclusion with everything else in the nutritional matrix in a whole food source. All sugar molecules aer pretty much the same, but that they're included with in a whole food changes how the body utilizes it.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "whole food" -- white potatoes are whole, natural and unprocessed, but they do me real bad.

[Marius_Ursus]

Originally Posted by mike_sargent

I'm not sure what you mean by a "whole food" -- white potatoes are whole, natural and unprocessed, but they do me real bad.

White waxy boilers?

If so, that makes me very sad.

[maryinmesquite]

all of yalls talk about fresh produce ,,,i went to the dallas farmers market yesterday ,, they have one barn that is guranteed local produce ,, and i bought some of the best stuff ,,,,

[Karl_Hungus]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

100 mcg is kind of low average. It's dosed based on body weight.

Its usually based on TSH. My dosage started at about 80mcg about 10 years ago, and now I am up to about 200 mcg. My weight has stayed roughly the same during this time.

P.S. Has anyone(*) switched from t4 only to t4/t3? And if so, did you notice a difference?

* = I mean people with actual thyroid disorders, not bodybuilders taking it just to try and lose fat.

[maryinmesquite]

i wonder the same ,, because im having some issues i think

[chodan9]

here is what I have had the best results from
no processed sugars
no processed white flours
I eat oats
very limited amounts of potato's
lots of broccolli
asparagus
green beens
leafy greens
various other beens
tons of lean meat: beef, pork, chicken, tuna
some fatty meats, (rib-eye's)
as for bread I only eat Natures Own whole grain (no hfcs and relatively low carb also)
cereal bar preworkout
PWO:muscle milk
various nuts
cabbage
fruits = berries, some apples, I eat at least 1 pinapple per week.
also I drink some milk

I have tried keto and it works great for weight loss, but for me it doesn't provide me with enough fuel to get me through my workouts, so I am doing fairly low carb, even with that I do a minimum of 150 carbs a day, almost all of the complex variety. I am very sensitive to processed carbs, but seem to talerate whole grains and other whole food carb sources pretty well.

I am down 50 pounds from my top weight, plus I have probably 20 pounds more lean mass than I had then.

It has taken me a long time to come up with a plan that works for me but now that I have I'm sticking to it