Choose Jesus or Choose Hell

[phackney]

Originally Posted by saloman

Is it that simple? God is so powerful and omnipotent, and omniscient, and apparently somehow manages to be very petty as well?

In what way is His perfect judgement petty? Let me ask you this, if an individual wants nothing to do with God here on earth, why would you want to spend eternity worshipping Him?

[phackney]

Originally Posted by jahlighted

Christians believe they are morally superior just like any other group. Cause it makes them feel better.

I don't believe I am morally superior to anybody. Jesus' sacrifice justifies me before the Lord, nothing I have done will ever be good enough for a perfect being.

[rotlex]

Originally Posted by boxcarguy07

Yes, purgatory was made up by the catholics... who supposedly believe in the Bible and purgatory is not mentioned once in the bible.


And heaven and hell are states of mind, not places. You can choose to have a certain state of mind, and also the decisions you make about being a good person or not will lend themselves to what state of mind you are in

Purgatory made up by the Catholics and not in the Bible? Again, it's all in the interpretation of the reading. For Example:

"Look at 1 Corinthians 3:14?15: "If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man?s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." You see, the Latinate word purgatory means a purgation or burning by fire. Paul in these verses refers to a purgation process whereby a man is saved even though his works are burned away. This is precisely what the Catholic Church teaches. A person at death who still has personal faults is prevented from entering into heaven because he is not completely purified. He must go through a period of purgation in order to be made clean, for nothing unclean will enter heaven (cf. Rev. 21:27)".

Not that I'm into quoting scripture, but at least know what you are talking about before posting.

[Duckenheimer]

Originally Posted by phackney

In what way is His perfect judgement petty? Let me ask you this, if an individual wants nothing to do with God here on earth, why would you want to spend eternity worshipping Him?

Not accepting Christ as your saviour does NOT equal an individual wanting nothing to do with God on earth.

[saloman]

Originally Posted by phackney

In what way is His perfect judgement petty? Let me ask you this, if an individual wants nothing to do with God here on earth, why would you want to spend eternity worshipping Him?

Maybe they don't want to spend all eternity worshiping him, but that doesn't mean sending them to eternal damnation wasn't vindictive and petty.

Also insisting on ones intellectual assent to my existence of offering them eternal pain is petty.

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by TDetroit

really, I was pretty sure that's how it works.

so what you are saying is that the guy who wants to spend eternity with Buddha would have to reach full enlightenment? Actually, upon full enlightenment, then would Buddha cease to exist, and so would the guy who wants to spend eternity with Buddha. Or do Buddhists have a heavan?

I'm not incredibly well versed in Buddhism, but I think it's something to do with becoming fully enlightened equalling becoming "One with God", though not an anthromorphic God such as that in Christianity, but with "God" meaning the creative force behind everything in existence- in other words, you'd just kind of sink into bliss, and "you" as an individual, seperate soul would cease to exist anymore, instead being merged into one with "God" yet again.

I may have totally butchered the above, but from the little I know, I believe it goes something like that. It wouldn't have anything to do with "spending eternity with Buddha", as Buddha isn't actually worshipped as a God himself in Buddhism IIRC.

[Rune]

Originally Posted by TDetroit

really, I was pretty sure that's how it works.

so what you are saying is that the guy who wants to spend eternity with Buddha would have to reach full enlightenment? Actually, upon full enlightenment, then would Buddha cease to exist, and so would the guy who wants to spend eternity with Buddha. Or do Buddhists have a heavan?

There is no "you" in Buddhism, true enlightenment is being freed from your ego, from the self, and becomming one with all that is.

[bmy-]

Originally Posted by phackney

In what way is His perfect judgement petty? Let me ask you this, if an individual wants nothing to do with God here on earth, why would you want to spend eternity worshipping Him?

Eh.. I'm 'christian' and I don't feel like 'worshipping him eternally'. What good is this entire 'plan' if we're just ego-boosters for a God who apparently lacks self-esteem?

[grup910]

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Nope, nothing lost at all. Just a difference in the way things were conveyed.

Wrong. translation is inherently problematic. you merely demonstrate your ignorance with uninformed statements about topics of which you obviously know nothing.

[grup910]

Originally Posted by TDetroit

so - the ruling is you cannot spend eternity with Buddha. Now I know that.

the "you" that thinks it is separate from the buddha-mind and that is the source of all suffering is annihilated through following the 8-fold path to completion. christianity only strengthens that "you" through its fairy tales about "heaven" and "eternal life." nothing is eternal, everything changes, everything is transitory.

[ironman1964bc]

You guys can choose between jesus and hell, I choose 2 ukrainian redheads and a case of shlitz.

[XiZBiT]

Originally Posted by TDetroit

2. the catholics left a lot of stuff out of the bible (3 gospels, and the journals of every litereate apostle - there were 129 at the time of the crucifiction)

My understanding as there was nothing till about 40 years after jesus died.

Originally Posted by powerman2000

I agree that it's 100% accurate in a different sense. No messages or meanings have been tweaked by anyone. Just the way in which it was grammatically conveyed does not match up word for word.

Tell me how you know this, did g0d tell you or do you just believe everything someone tells you?

Originally Posted by grup910

Wrong. translation is inherently problematic. you merely demonstrate your ignorance with uninformed statements about topics of which you obviously know nothing.

Another member with some sense, x2

[Yawdman]

The bible doesn't teach a burning hell. It's symbolic, when you burn something, house, paper, whatever, its consumed and ceases to exist, that's the point.

When Jesus said it's harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man into the kingdom of God, that also wasn't literal. The scriptures are using things people are familiar with to make a point.

[littleguy123]

Originally Posted by TDetroit

1. the catholics wrote the bible, so they get the final word on what it says
2. the catholics left a lot of stuff out of the bible (3 gospels, and the journals of every litereate apostle - there were 129 at the time of the crucifiction)
3. the concept of purgatory is the result of logical reasoning. Jesus said you go to hell if you have sinned, you go to heavan if you have accepted Jesus as the saviour. where do you go if you have not sinned and have not accepted Jesus as your savior.
4. Jesus said (using the real interpretations from greek) upon this rock I found my church, and then he turned to Simon and said from now on your name is stone. everyone who was present knew exactly what was meant. these are jews we are talking about here, the first universally literate society on the planet. they were known for writing down everything. the journals of 130 apostles all reflect exactly what was meant. after Nero ordered the burning of Jerusalem, the remnants of the commune took every document they had saved and went to the place where they thought they would find Peter (Simon) the last of the 12. He was dead when they got there, but what they found was a flourishing church (even after Nero ordered all of the killed). they donated all of their written works and works they had saved. All of this was sorted to make the bible.
5. it took hundreds of years of negotians and politics to write the bible. many iterations of the document were proposed. the original did not even have the crucifiction because they thought the teachings of Jesus were more important than the event of his death.
6. so as far as made up, Jesus never said there isn't a waiting room. And Peter get's to make the rules. He was empowered, according to all live witnesses -Jesus sect jews, as well as non-Jesus jews (who were allegedly haters of Jesus) all agree that Peter is the designer of the Church and belief system. Peter was the only one who didn't get it until the second time Saul knocked on the door.
7. Peter says purgatory is real. any christian who has done real research on Peter's stature would agree with Peter's decision.

I don't understand #3 who hasn't sinned. It says that everyone has fallen short and is unworthy. But through Jesus your sins can be forgivin and have eternal life.

Unless your talking about babies or mental challenged everyone who has ever lived has sinned except Jesus.

Please explain, thanks

[littleguy123]

Originally Posted by Yawdman

The bible doesn't teach a burning hell. It's symbolic, when you burn something, house, paper, whatever, its consumed and ceases to exist, that's the point.

When Jesus said it's harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man into the kingdom of God, that also wasn't literal. The scriptures are using things people are familiar with to make a point.

I disagree with your first part. What about where is talks sceams and knashing of teeth?

I think the bible as you say, isn't always literal like you say though.

[SWOLE PLAYA]

fukk you and your false gods.

[XiZBiT]

Originally Posted by littleguy123

I don't understand #3 who hasn't sinned. It says that everyone has fallen short and is unworthy. But through Jesus your sins can be forgivin and have eternal life.

Unless your talking about babies or mental challenged everyone who has ever lived has sinned except Jesus.

Please explain, thanks

According to your good book, everyone is born into sin, babies and the mentally retraded included, no exceptions. Its pretty obvious that the g0d you speak of dislikes humans.

[littleguy123]

Originally Posted by XiZBiT

According to your good book, everyone is born into sin, babies and the mentally retraded included, no exceptions. Its pretty obvious that the g0d you speak of dislikes humans.

Exactly that why I don't understand why there could be a place for people who haven't sinned.

Also I don't think god dislikes humans. It says we are his favorite things he created, and made us in his image(but thats another topic for some other time).

[XiZBiT]

Originally Posted by littleguy123

Exactly that why I don't understand why there could be a place for people who haven't sinned.

Also I don't think god dislikes humans. It says we are his favorite things he created, and made us in his image(but thats another topic for some other time).

Because they seem to believe they can sin repeatidly and just ask for forgiveness and be ok.... What happens if they forgot to ask for forgiveness one day continued to sin and died unexpectedly without the opportunity to ask for forgiveness, I would speculate that their @sses are going straight to HELL... Bye Bye Suckers!

[littleguy123]

Originally Posted by XiZBiT

Because they seem to believe they can sin repeatidly and just ask for forgiveness and be ok.... What happens if they forgot to ask for forgiveness one day continued to sin and died unexpectedly without the opportunity to ask for forgiveness, I would speculate that their @sses are going straight to HELL... Bye Bye Suckers!

Oh ok I'm not exactly familiar with how catholics view it. I heard someone say that if a catholic got hit in car accident and was dying(or was in a unexpected death situation) someone needs confess there sins or say something on their behalf or they will go to pergatory. That would make me kinda uneasy.

[XiZBiT]

Originally Posted by littleguy123

Oh ok I'm not exactly familiar with how catholics view it. I heard someone say that if a catholic got hit in car accident and was dying(or was in a unexpected death situation) someone needs confess there sins or say something on their behalf or they will go to pergatory. That would make me kinda uneasy.

You would be just as screwed as me if there was any truth to any of this nonsense.

[littleguy123]

Originally Posted by XiZBiT

You would be just as screwed as me if there was any truth to any of this nonsense.

I can see your point but I think pergatory would be better than hell. So I think I would be in a better space. No disrepect.

[XiZBiT]

Originally Posted by littleguy123

I can see your point but I think pergatory would be better than hell. So I think I would be in a better space. No disrepect.

Purgatory is a product of the Catholic church, speaking of which I think I discovered a way to bypass my statement of being screwed. The Catholic church accepts money in advance for your sins. So you can prepay to have your sins wiped clean. just in case you get hit by a bus and dont have time to ask for forgiveness, just say'n

[1.8Tsunami]

Originally Posted by XiZBiT

Purgatory is a product of the Catholic church, speaking of which I think I discovered a way to bypass my statement of being screwed. The Catholic church accepts money in advance for your sins. So you can prepay to have your sins wiped clean. just in case you get hit by a bus and dont have time to ask for forgiveness, just say'n

lol, they don't do that anymore...and haven't for some time now.

[romeo2]

i want to say that salvation through the catholic church is waaay different than salvation explained in the bible and what jesus taught, but then people believe in different versions of the bible with different interpretations so i wont go there

[XiZBiT]

Originally Posted by 1.8Tsunami

lol, they don't do that anymore...and haven't for some time now.

well then back to being screwed...

[1.8Tsunami]

Originally Posted by romeo2

i want to say that salvation through the catholic church is waaay different than salvation explained in the bible and what jesus taught, but then people believe in different versions of the bible with different interpretations so i wont go there

Please, go there...that was kind of the point of this thread

[1.8Tsunami]

Originally Posted by XiZBiT

well then back to being screwed...

lol, jk

[Yawdman]

Originally Posted by littleguy123

I disagree with your first part. What about where is talks sceams and knashing of teeth?

I think the bible as you say, isn't always literal like you say though.

Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 point out that the dead don't know anything, think or feel, their love and their hate cease.

Ps 146:3-5 not sure of the verses, but that shows that when you die your thoughts cease.

It only makes sense being that you need a nervous system to feel pain and when you're dead, your whole body stops and decays, so no brain to interpret pain, and no nerve endings to send them.

When you die you cease to exist period.

[Geno]

As long as purgatory has a bar - we're good.