What is heaven like?

[adilrockstar]

Originally Posted by saloman

Same body, just improved, or new body? All credal statements of the early church state that 'resurrection of the body' not 'assignment of new body'.

New Body. You will be given a heavenly body and a new name.

[saloman]

Originally Posted by adilrockstar

New Body. You will be given a heavenly body and a new name.

Did Jesus rise with his body or a new one? (consider Thomas) Do we rise like Jesus or someone else?

[illriginalized]

Impossible to gauge. I like to imagine that heaven is anything you'd like it to be. I mean I would love to travel the universe(s) in its entirety as a spirit. And would love to spend eternity asking God questions of all sorts.

[FIVE OAKES]

To everyone who is saying heaven will be like "x" and that it says so in the bible - can you post the bible verses that support your position?

I don't care what you learned in church/Sunday school - without scripture to back it up, it's just opinion and hear-say.

[Violator009]

Originally Posted by FIVE OAKES

To everyone who is saying heaven will be like "x" and that it says so in the bible - can you post the bible verses that support your position?

Google book of Enoch

[FIVE OAKES]

Originally Posted by Violator009

Google book of Enoch

You sure you want to go there? That book is even more ridiculous than the bible. That's probably why Christians tried to ignore it for so long.

Why don't we start with you posting what it says about heaven...

I went to the extreme ends of the earth and saw there huge beasts, each different from the other and different birds (also) differing from one another in appearance, beauty, and voice. And to the east of those beasts, I saw the ultimate ends of the earth which rests on the heaven. And the gates of heaven were open, and I saw how the stars of heaven come out...(1 Enoch 33:1-2).

lol

[Beatitude]

Some qualities of the heaven that the saints and the unfallen will dwell in are:

We will not become fatigue:
(Isaiah 40: 27-31)

There will not be death,
There will not be mourning or crying,
There will not be pain:
( Revelation 21:4)

We will not marry or give in marriage:
(Matthew 22: 23-40)

Everybody (that is saved), those in male vessels or female vessels, and regardless of nationality or status, will be heirs of God's promise as sons of God:
(Galatians 3: 26-29)

We will serve God forever:
(Revelation 7: 15)

It will be a kingdom that cannot be shaken, unlike the old (current) order of things:
(Hebrews 12: 25-30 )

There will be glory,
There will be honor,
There will be peace:
(Romans 2: 9-11)

It will be obscenely better than any other place:
(Psalm 84: 10-12)

[FIVE OAKES]

Originally Posted by Beatitude

Some qualities of the heaven that the saints and the unfallen will dwell in are:

We will not become fatigue:
(Isaiah 40: 27-31)

There will not be death,
There will not be mourning or crying,
There will not be pain:
( Revelation 21:4)

That should all go without saying...however, there is (has been) war and violence in heaven - so that's hard to reconcile.

" 7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down?that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. "
Rev. 12:7

"And the armies of heaven, wearing fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses."
Rev. 19:14

"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force."
Matt. 11:12

We will not marry or give in marriage:
(Matthew 22: 23-40)

"They will be like the angels in heaven"

So basically, no sex in heaven. Sounds great!!!

Everybody (that is saved), those in male vessels or female vessels, and regardless of nationality or status, will be heirs of God's promise as sons of God:
(Galatians 3: 26-29)

Not even sure what that's supposed to mean, or why it would be good...

We will serve God forever:
(Revelation 7: 15)

Indentured Servitude. Sweet!!!

It will be a kingdom that cannot be shaken, unlike the old (current) order of things:
(Hebrews 12: 25-30 )

Natural disasters aren't a big problem where I live.

There will be glory,
There will be honor,
There will be peace:
(Romans 2: 9-11)

If there has been war, what's to stop it from happening again?

It will be obscenely better than any other place:
(Psalm 84: 10-12)

Not exactly what it says, but still pretty damn vague. All it's saying is that heaven will be totally awesome - which obviously has different meanings to different people. Pretty clever.

[KRANE]

Originally Posted by FIVE OAKES

That should all go without saying...however, there is (has been) war and violence in heaven - so that's hard to reconcile.

" 7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down?that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. "
Rev. 12:7

"And the armies of heaven, wearing fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses."
Rev. 19:14

"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force."
Matt. 11:12





"They will be like the angels in heaven"

So basically, no sex in heaven. Sounds great!!!



Not even sure what that's supposed to mean, or why it would be good...



Indentured Servitude. Sweet!!!



Natural disasters aren't a big problem where I live.



If there has been war, what's to stop it from happening again?



Not exactly what it says, but still pretty damn vague. All it's saying is that heaven will be totally awesome - which obviously has different meanings to different people. Pretty clever.

Hmm, sounds like you're 'itemizing your deductions'? So if line 37 is less than line 38 are you going to say never mind, I'll stay where I am?

[Beatitude]

Originally Posted by FIVE OAKES

That should all go without saying...however, there is (has been) war and violence in heaven - so that's hard to reconcile.

" 7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down?that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. "
Rev. 12:7

"And the armies of heaven, wearing fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses."
Rev. 19:14

"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force."
Matt. 11:12

Well, the first thing that should make this automatically reconciled is that God says there is going to be peace in heaven, therefore there is going to be peace in heaven. That alone would be adequate without any further insight.

And yes, the current heaven has been effected by the taint of evil just as the earth has. There has been ungodliness among angels and men. God is going to destroy both earth and heaven.

2 Peter: 3: 10-13:
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

And if you are saved, then you have given your sinful nature a death warrant. Christ will make you perfect forever. Those among mankind that refused to repent won't be in heaven, and those angels which fell won't be either. There won't be any hostiles, and you won't be like you are now. Hebrews chapter 10 talks of this.

"They will be like the angels in heaven"

So basically, no sex in heaven. Sounds great!!!

(ignores sarcasm) Well gee golly wiz, I didn't think you would handle this one so well. High five for eternal ballessness! Don't leave me hanging!

Give it up!

Give it up!

Give it up!

Give it up!

(gives up) ok, next.

Not even sure what that's supposed to mean, or why it would be good...

Well, being a child of Almighty God means you're going to have his love and confidence.

Indentured Servitude. Sweet!!!

It's not indentured, and service is not a negative thing. There will be no pain or sorrow, remember?

Natural disasters aren't a big problem where I live.

Maybe not, but divine decree to destroy the world is eventually going to be. The kingdom to come will never end.

If there has been war, what's to stop it from happening again?

See the last part to the first part of my response.

Not exactly what it says, but still pretty damn vague. All it's saying is that heaven will be totally awesome - which obviously has different meanings to different people. Pretty clever.

There aren't any specific details about heaven in the way you would get details on a hotel or something. The Bible either speaks in symbols, or it speaks of the qualities of heaven, which is suffecient for anybody that trusts in God. Eyes, ears, and minds can't conceive such things (1 Corinthians 2: 9-10) so it wouldn't do a whole lot of good.

[Weightaholic]

Heaven?

Scarlett Johansonn wearing nothing but baby oil and a suggestive smile....

[FIVE OAKES]

Originally Posted by Beatitude

Well, the first thing that should make this automatically reconciled is that God says there is going to be peace in heaven, therefore there is going to be peace in heaven. That alone would be adequate without any further insight.

That's just a matter of whether or not you accept that it is the word of God - no reason to argue that here.

And yes, the current heaven has been effected by the taint of evil just as the earth has. There has been ungodliness among angels and men. God is going to destroy both earth and heaven.

So in heaven & earth version 1.0 God either wants war and violence to happen or can't stop it. Version 2.0 will have more advanced anti-violence software. Got it.

If v1.0 is flawed, why not recall it? Why all the waiting?

And if you are saved, then you have given your sinful nature a death warrant. Christ will make you perfect forever. Those among mankind that refused to repent won't be in heaven, and those angels which fell won't be either. There won't be any hostiles, and you won't be like you are now. Hebrews chapter 10 talks of this.

1. Why wait till version 2.0 to make us all perfect? Market research? Stiffer competition?
2. What is "perfect"? Will it involve free will?
3. How can a perfect God create an unperfect universe, unless intentionally? Why would he do that?

Well, being a child of Almighty God means you're going to have his love and confidence.

Are we not already God's children? He doesn't love us?

It's not indentured, and service is not a negative thing. There will be no pain or sorrow, remember?

1. How is it not indentured? You serve him, he gives you eternal happiness - you don't, you're gone (assuming you will have free will - if not then it will be just plain ole' slavery).

2. You won't mind servitude because you'll be unable to dislike it. Kind of like a robot.

Maybe not, but divine decree to destroy the world is eventually going to be. The kingdom to come will never end.

Conjecture. But for the sake of this debate, we'll let it stand.

See the last part to the first part of my response.

See my response to the last part of the first part of your response.

There aren't any specific details about heaven in the way you would get details on a hotel or something. The Bible either speaks in symbols, or it speaks of the qualities of heaven, which is suffecient for anybody that trusts in God. Eyes, ears, and minds can't conceive such things (1 Corinthians 2: 9-10) so it wouldn't do a whole lot of good.

Or maybe they were too afraid to write specifics in the bible, because the vague notion of paradise will appeal to a much broader audience.

[JAGERBOY]

lol @ all the Heaven rationalization in this thread by Christians.

"If it doesn't make sense, make something up that does!"

[Weightaholic]

Originally Posted by Beatitude

See the last part to the first part of my response.

See the first part of the last part to my first response to the last part of your response to the second part of the first response to my second last response responding to the first part of the last response in this thread....


WHAT?!?!?!?!

[littleguy123]

At first I thought some of you wanted legitimate opinions but obvious you don't wan't that. You want to make sarcastic comments, which is cool do you. Obviously if you don't believe in God or think the Bible is wrong who cares what some people (including myself) believe anyway.


I'm out.

[illriginalized]

Originally Posted by FIVE OAKES

You sure you want to go there? That book is even more ridiculous than the bible. That's probably why Christians tried to ignore it for so long.




lol

What exactly is wrong with the Book of Enoch? There's a very good reason why Christians don't acknowledge it. One of which many Christians don't have a clue about. Same thing with the 5 books of Maccabees.

Originally Posted by littleguy123

At first I thought some of you wanted legitimate opinions but obvious you don't wan't that. You want to make sarcastic comments, which is cool do you. Obviously if you don't believe in God or think the Bible is wrong who cares what some people (including myself) believe anyway.


I'm out.

They're atheists bro... they don't really care about religion enough to take anything serious. They post up questions only to see our answers for their entertainment. No matter how much evidence you have... it's still too irrational or vague for them. It's as if they were meant to not fathom it, if they did... their heads would explode.

[Morbid_Mind]

Hookers and blow.

[Mr_Kinney]

The matrix kinda got it right, perfection is too boring.

Heaven can't exist.

[illriginalized]

Originally Posted by Mr_Kinney

The matrix kinda got it right, perfection is too boring.

Heaven can't exist.

lol you believe in the matrix but heaven can't exist.

[FIVE OAKES]

Originally Posted by Danny23

What exactly is wrong with the Book of Enoch?

Other than the fact that he claimed to have literally walked to the "end" of the earth (in the east) and saw the gates of heaven, while hanging out with angels (none of whom bothered to correct his theory that the sun and stars revolve around the earth)?

How the hell could you believe anything else the guy says when at least 90% of the planet knows this one example could not possibly be true? I'm sure I could find lots more also - but this one example should be enough for any sane person to realize that Enoch was a damn liar.

The reason the Christian church tried to sweep that book under the rug is because it's waaaaay too hard to "interpret" in any way that is remotely believable, and they were afraid it would embarrass them.

They're atheists bro... they don't really care about religion enough to take anything serious. They post up questions only to see our answers for their entertainment.

I do care, actually. I think it's very important that people look at their religion in a critical light instead of just blindly accepting what their priest/preacher/rabbi/cleric says. The issue of heaven is just one good example of this. Everyone claims that heaven will be perfect - although everyone's idea of "perfect" is different - but no one really knows anything about what it's supposed to be like. Everyone has their own version, with nothing to back it up.

No matter how much evidence you have... it's still too irrational or vague for them. It's as if they were meant to not fathom it, if they did... their heads would explode.

No theist on this sight (or elsewhere) has provided proof for their religion. If that was possible, believing wouldn't require faith and there would be only one religion. Your "proof" consists of seeing something we don't understand and attributing it to your version of God. That's not evidence, that's faith.

[Resonator]

Originally Posted by Danny23

lol you believe in the matrix but heaven can't exist.

He said the matrix got it right with the statement, "Perfection is too boring." He didn't say that he believes in the matrix.

[illriginalized]

Originally Posted by FIVE OAKES

Other than the fact that he claimed to have literally walked to the "end" of the earth (in the east) and saw the gates of heaven, while hanging out with angels (none of whom bothered to correct his theory that the sun and stars revolve around the earth)?

How the hell could you believe anything else the guy says when at least 90% of the planet knows this one example could not possibly be true? I'm sure I could find lots more also - but this one example should be enough for any sane person to realize that Enoch was a damn liar.

The reason the Christian church tried to sweep that book under the rug is because it's waaaaay too hard to "interpret" in any way that is remotely believable, and they were afraid it would embarrass them.




I do care, actually. I think it's very important that people look at their religion in a critical light instead of just blindly accepting what their priest/preacher/rabbi/cleric says. The issue of heaven is just one good example of this. Everyone claims that heaven will be perfect - although everyone's idea of "perfect" is different - but no one really knows anything about what it's supposed to be like. Everyone has their own version, with nothing to back it up.



No theist on this sight (or elsewhere) has provided proof for their religion. If that was possible, believing wouldn't require faith and there would be only one religion. Your "proof" consists of seeing something we don't understand and attributing it to your version of God. That's not evidence, that's faith.

there's been plenty of evidence provided just from the quran alone, thank you very much.

[bear87]

i can't remember the exact verse but it's something like "the eye has not seen, nor can the mind comprehend what is in store"

I know there's alot of gold though, and light, lots and lots of it.

[chocs]

Imagine this world for a minute, then glorify it.... Imagine you could keep your house open all day and no one would steal your things. Imagine you didn't fear any man would cause your family any harm, or stealing your wife or belongings. Imagine everybody was your friend and they all knew your name, like you were someone famous. Imagine you didn't have to open the news and hear earthquakes, famines,diseases, kids dying from drug overdoses etc.

Imagine the best day you ever experienced in your life, now make this day everyday. Imagine, imagine, imagine. And this is only our human imagination it is nothing compared to God's mind. Plus you won't have the flesh as we have now that makes us suffer and struggle and doesn't want to do the will of God.

[FIVE OAKES]

Originally Posted by Danny23

there's been plenty of evidence provided just from the quran alone, thank you very much.

Maybe "evidence" is a bad word. Let's say "proof". There are plenty of types of "evidence" that are not admissable in court or in science (because they don't "prove" anything)

[illriginalized]

Originally Posted by FIVE OAKES

Maybe "evidence" is a bad word. Let's say "proof". There are plenty of types of "evidence" that are not admissable in court or in science (because they don't "prove" anything)

That's funny... doesn't science use evidence to help scientific theories become proof, which is then converted into, "scientific facts"?

[Tiffany Wantsmore]

According to Christians I have spoken to (including my mother), animals don't have souls, because "they cannot repent their sins", and thus, will not go to heaven.

So if heaven is a place with no animals, it doesn't sound like perfection to me.

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by Danny23

lol you believe in the matrix but heaven can't exist.

Originally Posted by Danny23

That's funny... doesn't science use evidence to help scientific theories become proof, which is then converted into, "scientific facts"?

I think Danny 23 has converted into a full fledged IslamoTroll.

[illriginalized]

<,< Why did you neg me and call me a troll? Explain yourself.

[bmy-]

Originally Posted by Aphrodite

According to Christians I have spoken to (including my mother), animals don't have souls, because "they cannot repent their sins", and thus, will not go to heaven.

So if heaven is a place with no animals, it doesn't sound like perfection to me.

LDS believes quite differently.