3 meals as opposed to 5

[Wattsup]

Is it REALLY that important? I am finding that since I have switched to 5 meals/day I have become obsessed with my food, timing, calories, etc.

If I keep my macros the same and eat 3 meals at 400 cals and have a post w/o shake and a pre bed shake (110 cals/each) does that work just as well?

I find that if I stick to eating 250 cal meals, I obsess about my next meal because I am still hungry.

I tried yesterday doing this:

meal 1 8:00 (400 cals) 40/40/20
meal 2 12:00 (400 cals) 40/40/20
workout 2:00
post workout shake 4:00 (110 cals)
meal 3 6:00 (300 cals) protein/greens only
pre-bed casein shake and 1 tsp pb at 9:00 (180 cals)

Does this look OK???

[Tiffany_P]

You sound like me 3 months ago

Recent research indicates that the thermic effect of food is not dependent on the number of meals you eat. It has no effect on metabolism at all. Even Tom Venuto has recently admitted this.

I was so sick of the small tupperware meals for the same reasons as you (always hungry and obsessed with food) that I decided to give intermittent fasting a shot (which is basically the opposite approach). So far my results have been pretty convincing, and I absolutely LOVE the lifestyle. I have so much more freedom now. I can have my first meal at 3 p.m. and then go out to dinner with my husband at 8 p.m. and enjoy a real meal. It's fantastic.

Anyway, long story short, divide your calories however you want to. Just make sure to eat your biggest meal after your workout and get ample protein.

[freebirdmac]

I think it's more important to get the proper food in pre and post workout and throughout the day versus how many meals you eat. That said, I could not eat all of that food unless I did split my food up into 5-6 meals a day. I would not advocate skipping meals, eating only after 4, etc. But a traditional 3 meals a day isn't horrid.

[Scarl3tbutt3rfly]

I had read an article recently (Ill have to find it) that talked about eating less than the 6 meals. It basically said that there was a study on fat loss/metabolism and there was noted benefit on consuming 4+ meals a day. Those that ate 3 tended to not have the same fat loss. However consuming greater than 6 did not have a benefit and of course was not as satisfying as consuming less meals that are more filling. At least 4 meals seemed to be where the benefit was seen. So if you eat 3 meals and a snack somewhere lets say, that is probably good.

I also think everyone is different. So if it works for you, than go for it. I think it would probably be ok in general. Like everyone else said, just make sure you eat right around workout.

I personally like eating 5-6 meals. And I know for some guys, getting protein in would be tough if they didnt eat that often. My husband has that problem. I like knowing I can eat again in a couple of hours, lol. I also dont like to be so full all the time, I prefer a smaller meal in general.

[Wattsup]

GREAT replies!!!
I am going to give this 3 meals a "go" and use my shakes as a supplement if I feel I need to sneak in some extra protein (especially before bed...or immediately after workouts).

I will see what happens...

Just got home from my workout, and am going to have my lunch instead of a shake!

6 egg white omelet with green peppers and mushrooms and 2 slices of ezekial bread with sf jam. To me, this is MUUUUCH better than a protein shake!

[kariev34]

you sound just like me! i did 6 meals a day for a couple of years. i obsessed about eating, when to eat, having food with me at all times, etc. This obession lead me to binge once a week just to free myself of the meal rules and to finally feel satisfied with eating. About a year ago i said enough was enough and i went back to 3 meals a day making sure that first and foremost i get in all my protein and healthy fats. The binging stopped immediately and i stopped being so time obsessed. I've become leaner now since the binging stopped and i feel so much better eating less frequently. I no longer have to carry food everywhere and find places where i can eat. This works so much better for me. I eat about 1500cals a day. When i tried to split that into 250cal meals, i never felt satisfied but once i made 3 meals of 500 cals i felt so good. I also like actually getting a bit hungry and sitting down to a larger meal. I don't even have cravings anymore. I say give it a try for a couple weeks and see how it works. Everyone is different and I don't think that everyone needs to eat every 3 hours.

[Tulsa28]

I also switched from 5-6 meals a day to like 3. Like tiffany p iv'e been doing intermittent fasting, eating b/t 2pm-9pm. I feel free! No more obssesing!I just don't feel satisfied if my belly is not full, so this is working for me!

[Tiffany_P]

Originally Posted by freebirdmac

I could not eat all of that food unless I did split my food up into 5-6 meals a day.

Really? I've NEVER had a problem eating 600-1000 calorie meals. Is there something wrong with me? LOL!

[Tulsa28]

No, I'm the same way!

[kariev34]

i'm the same way.
I wanted to know for the ladies that are eating 3 meals a day, how many cals are you eating each day and do you have your largest in the morning and taper them down or are they all equal????

[kariev34]

weren't mini meals originally developed for bodybuilders to get in all of their calories since they had to eat like 3,000 a day?????

[Wattsup]

I did my 3 meals yesterday and was NOT even hungry for my protein shake before bed!!! I usually look forwaard to my protein shake because I am soooo hungry. Take "2" tonight!

[jacquidube]

I couldnt for the life of me eat 6 meals a day. I eat 3 reasonable meals for me anyway.

Today I ate about 50 grammes of natural muesli with mainly nuts (no sugar at all) with semi-skimmed milk.

3 hours later I ate 2 rice cakes filled with plenty of tuna and red onion/garlic/ and a little mayo, enough to take away any hunger and tonight Im having raw salmon with tomatoes and a slice of bread and thats my lot.
I drink plenty of water with maybe another unhealthy drink during the day like tea with sugar or a coke (Im still trying to come off the coca cola)
I have also just give up smoking 8 days ago and I know I will probably eat more but I just have to keep myself active.

Im not sure how many calories I consume during the day but Im guessing about 1500 calories by the end of the day. I am quite petite and my body doesnt need that much.

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by Tiffany_P

Really? I've NEVER had a problem eating 600-1000 calorie meals. Is there something wrong with me? LOL!

Nah, I just have a small tummy capacity. If I eat a 600 cal meal I feel awful, like I just pigged out at Thanksgiving dinner. It's hard enough to get two 300 cal meals down within 3 hours of each other. Now if it were heavy on carbs instead of protein it might be doable.

[kimm4]

you should be fine. the most important thing is to get your daily calories in.

[Chef K-Lo]

Originally Posted by kariev34

weren't mini meals originally developed for bodybuilders to get in all of their calories since they had to eat like 3,000 a day?????

LOL right now my maintenance cals are 3700.. trying to lose weight so knock the daily goal to 3200. I still can't make that when I'm eating clean, and I'm eating all day! Well, that's what it feels like anyway lol...

[NightSprite]

I was so happy to see this thread! Being somewhat new to bodybuilding I've been struggling with going from my old eating habits to trying to eat 6 times a day. Having once been overweight (3+ years ago) it's hard to change my eating habits back to eating more....I think I tend to overeat when I do it 6 times a day. I'm still struggling with just how much to eat, obviously my body wants more food with all the working out I'm doing but I still want to shake body fat and a couple of pounds. I know it's a numbers game and I'm still learning the rules...threads like this are great for figuring things out!

I think I'm going back to my really light pre-workout "breakfast", protein shake after workout, bigger lunch ( I have to eat out almost daily for my job), very light dinner and going to bed just a little bit hungry......that's what's worked for me in the past and trying to eat MORE is killing me!!

[phaty]

I too, have been eating 5-6 timgs a day for quite some time now.

I would love to see a sample of someones 3 meal eating plan.

[bambifox]

To be honest with you all...I have absolutely no idea how many calories I eat per day and the amount of times per day I eat varies. I eat when I'm hungry (which is about every 3-5 hours). This changes too at different times of the month. Sometimes I just crave fruit at 12midnight. Sometimes I workout at 10pm and have a full meal at 1a.m. It depends on my activity level for that day and time of month.

What I find that IS important for ME (everybody's metabolism and genetic predisposition is different), is the TIMING of certain macros. For instance, I DO make sure that every meal/snack/whatever, has protein in it. I DO taper off my fat consumption at about 6pm and try to consume most of my fat at least a couple of hours before my workout. Since I workout mostly at night, most times my last actual meal is at 3pm, cuz the only thing that satisfies me after a great cardio w/o is a protein shake (usually mixed with Casein). That fills me up till about midnight and I usually have a palm full of nuts and/or fruit if I'm still up (night owl).

Everyone has different schedules too. I think it important to work your diet around that. There's more than one way to skin a cat...I say. Let your own BODY answer your questions....it's usually right (absent any specific health conditions). Good luck!

[kariev34]

well here is my diet:

breakfast: .5 cup oatmeal mixed with 1 tablespoon natural peanut butter and 2 scoops of muscle milk light

lunch: 4 oz chicken made into a sandwich on 2 slices of double fiber wheat bread, 1 cup of spinach, 1 medium apple and 30 pistachios

dinner: 4 oz of protein, .5 cup fat free shredded cheese, 2 tablespoons of light 3 cheese ranch dressing, and a TON of veggies for an awsome salad.

dessert: 1 medium apple with 1 tablespoon natural peanut butter

[gjohnson5]

Originally Posted by Tiffany_P

You sound like me 3 months ago

Recent research indicates that the thermic effect of food is not dependent on the number of meals you eat. It has no effect on metabolism at all. Even Tom Venuto has recently admitted this.

Could you post exactly what you're talking about?

[Tiffany_P]

Originally Posted by gjohnson5

Could you post exactly what you're talking about?

Sure. Here's a link to Tom Venuto's latest comments regarding meal frequency:

http://leangains.blogspot.com/2008/0...criticism.html

[Amanda76]

Originally Posted by Scarl3tbutt3rfly

I had read an article recently (Ill have to find it) that talked about eating less than the 6 meals. It basically said that there was a study on fat loss/metabolism and there was noted benefit on consuming 4+ meals a day. Those that ate 3 tended to not have the same fat loss. However consuming greater than 6 did not have a benefit and of course was not as satisfying as consuming less meals that are more filling. At least 4 meals seemed to be where the benefit was seen. So if you eat 3 meals and a snack somewhere lets say, that is probably good.

I also think everyone is different. So if it works for you, than go for it. I think it would probably be ok in general. Like everyone else said, just make sure you eat right around workout.

I personally like eating 5-6 meals. And I know for some guys, getting protein in would be tough if they didnt eat that often. My husband has that problem. I like knowing I can eat again in a couple of hours, lol. I also dont like to be so full all the time, I prefer a smaller meal in general.

This actually goes along best with what I've experienced in my own life. Lifting weights and actually finding real NEED for nutrition around my workouts, I haven't been able to do well with less than 4 meals a day. 4 meals worked alright. Not the best for me, personally, though.

I've been eating 5-6 meals for a long time and that is my preferred way of eating. But if you look at diet plans I post, two meals would often be considered more of a protein and fruit/veggie snack and the last one typically contains no carbs (not because I think carbs make you fat at night, but because I like eating larger servings of carbs and by the time I get to M6, I'm outta carb for the day). IMO, what wattsup has suggested with her 3 food meals and 2 protein shakes is actually a 5 "meal" plan.

Along the lines of what freebirdmac said, so many people say they have difficulty getting enough protein in throughout the day. Eating protein 5-6 times a day, I have no problem with protein overload. LOL

I think every person is going to be different and that every person will have different food needs throughout the day. It took time to figure out what seems to make me feel best, and having a goal of eating 6 times a day gave me a great place to start. Simply eating 3 meals a day was actually a struggle at first and I failed at meeting my goals for a couple of months. LOL Once things were rockin' along, I started out with calories and macros balanced pretty well throughout the day and over time figured out what meals to make larger and which to make smaller. I need to eat at least every 4 hours, with more of an appetite toward my generally more active afternoons/evenings than my slow-paced mornings. I prefer concentrating fatty meals toward the evening. I WILL get sluggish if my meals are too large or are comprised of too many carbs vs. protein. And I WILL get shakey, weak and lightheaded if I stretch time between meals out too long.

I think how a person should go about figuring out exactly what they need probably varies based on where they're coming from. As an example, I come from the camp of people who can't necessarily base food need on hunger because if I skip enough meals on a regular enough basis, I'm never hungry and the symptoms I listed above become become so normal that I quit noticing I'm not functioning as well as I could be. Based on my experiences of not knowing how crappy I was feeling eating once or twice a day, I do think people should at least experiment with eating something more often throughout the day. But I don't think there's a "one size fits all" formula.

5-6 meals (or "feedings" of some sort, if you don't consider something a meal without all macros represented), will probably remain my favorite guideline to push people toward. Especially when watching all the 3-meal-a-dayers who are snacking on soda, chips and donuts between those 3 meals a day. Seems to be kinda natural for people to graze...that being the case, even if a person does decide to go with a more "traditional" 3 meal/day diet plan, I think they should at least keep something to fallback on around for the odd times they might need an unexpected boost.

[gjohnson5]

Originally Posted by Tiffany_P

Sure. Here's a link to Tom Venuto's latest comments regarding meal frequency:

http://leangains.blogspot.com/2008/0...criticism.html

Actually he didn't change positions at all. He still recommends 6 meals a day as he plainly states

You will still see me recommend 5-6 small meals per day,and rather strongly. But not dogmatically. What you wont hear me say is that 6 meals increases metabolism or weight loss over 3 meals at an equal caloric intake.

You will also not hear me say that your metabolism slows down if you miss a single meal. (starvation
response)


and

I also practice what I preach. I still compete to this day, drug-free for life, using
the same methods I teach in my book. Nothing has changed except my understanding of WHY certain things work.My technical errors in that original first edition, were virtually all about mechanisms, not methods. the methods worked, and looking at my client photos and my own competition photos are testimony to that fact.

Doesn't sound like much of a retraction but he did say meal frequency 3 or 6 doesn't have any effect on metabolism...

[terracotta]

Originally Posted by Chef K-Lo

LOL right now my maintenance cals are 3700.. trying to lose weight so knock the daily goal to 3200. I still can't make that when I'm eating clean, and I'm eating all day! Well, that's what it feels like anyway lol...

I know it's off topic.. but if you used a calculator to get your maintenance calories (and not trial and error) it will be an overestimate. The calculators are only estimates, and do not work well on overweight people (it assumes a certain bodyfat percentage).

Also, you can safely cut out enough calories to lose 1% of your body mass per week, you don't have to stick to the 500 number. In your case, that would be 2.6 lbs per week (for a max weight loss), so you can safely drop 1000 calories off of your maintenance (as long as you are getting enough protein and good pre/post workout nutrition this is fine).

[Tiffany_P]

Originally Posted by gjohnson5

he did say meal frequency 3 or 6 doesn't have any effect on metabolism...

Exactly. He admitted that meal frequency doesn't have an impact on metabolism. That is huge considering he devotes an entire chapter in BFFM to the connection between meal frequency & metabolism. (Chapter 7: Secrets of meal frequency & timing: How to turbo charge your metabolism and turn your body into a fat-burning machine!)

He's the one who convinced me to eat 5x per day in the first place. I tried it for a while (and I've got the tupperware to prove it!) and it didn't work for me because I found 300 calorie meals to be unsatisfying. If it works for you, great! Eating 6 times a day certainly doesn't do any harm. It doesn't turn your body into a fat-burning machine though.

[gjohnson5]

Originally Posted by Tiffany_P

Exactly. He admitted that meal frequency doesn't have an impact on metabolism. .

You're jumping to conclusions

Ummm... Did he say meal frequency has NOTHING to do with metabolism
No he didn't

He said
You will still see me recommend 5-6 small meals per day,and rather strongly. But not dogmatically. What you wont hear me say is that 6 meals increases metabolism or weight loss over 3 meals at an equal caloric intake.

Martin's own study that he posted on the IF thread clearly shows that 1 meal a day definitely has an effect on metabolism and bodily function and those effects seem quite negative indeed