Soy v.s. Whey protein

[denee422]

I'm trying to find a lower carb lower sugar protein than Muscle Milk. I've heard in the past that Soy protein is better than Whey for women because Whey does something with estrogen or something. I've heard people talk on here about using it for females. I'm not looking to get huge, just lean muscle mass, and super toned.

[aosch]

As far as my knowledge and experience, whey protein doesn't do anything to estrogen. Whey protein also won't get you huge, ripped, veiny, etc.. etc.. Its just protein, that is able to breakdown and get put to use in your body faster then other proteins.

There are plenty of low carb/no carb proteins out there. Try to find something that is affordable and tastes good. Try looking at optimum nutrition or cytosport.

If you got any other questions feel free to ask.

[jecristragedy]

i take designer whey.
90 cal
2 carbs
1.5g fat
18g protein

and its deliciouss! especially the vanilla praline flavor, its wonderful, i usually just have it plain. the regular vanilla is also good with some fruit in it, but they have chocolate, strawberry, etc too.

its got a pretty decent price. vitamin shop almost always has it online on sale-- 4.4lbs for 39.99, 2lbs for 19.99, 12oz for 10.99.
but if you print off a screen capture of the price and take it to the store, they'll honor up to 3 things.

[SexyChic]

Optimum whey double chocolate is yummmmmm!

[zombieang]

Soy has a positive effect on estrogen regulation in women. Men fear soy because they think it will elevate their estrogen levels. Soy is a good protein to eat, but not for your PWO shake. Yep any protein is lower in calories than muscle milk.....try the muscle milk light if you like the intense flavors.

[Jinx Me]

I personally don't think soy isolate powders are the best way to take soy. If you want to include soy in your diet, eat a few servings per week of tofu, miso, or tempeh. Miso and tempeh are the most digestible forms of soy because they're fermented.

Unfermented soy (soy powder, soy milk, etc.) is not a highly digestible food. It's best consumed in moderation to reap the rewards without some of the drawbacks (for example, high soy consumption can actually cause a sensitivity to soy).

Avoid convenience foods that market themselves as being wonderful because of their soy content. Stick with basic, simple soy foods, and just use whey isolate if you need a convenient powder. It's way more digestible and if you're eating a little tofu here and there, you're getting the health benefits of soy already.

FWIW, in Asia, soy is not consumed as heavily as we've been led to believe. In fact, it's not even a terribly traditional food. Before it was fermented into miso and tempeh, it was mainly used to feed livestock.

[denee422]

I started O.N. Whey Double Rich Chocolate. It's great with Splenda, and it mixes much smoother and thinner than MM.

[May0819]

wondering if anyone has tried the "Dedicated Womens Whey" protein? .. i saw it on bb.com & was curious how it was/tasted.

[gymbych]

Being vegan I rely a lot on Soy protien as it is hard getting enough protien to keep up the muscles! I have yet to find one that doesn't make me want to heave it up as soon as it hits my mouth. If you consume animal products I would recommend Whey and Casien protien over the soy!

[solstice]

Soy is a phytoestrogen, and actually soy isn't necessarily a positive supplement for women. Supplementing ANY hormone for a person isn't generally a good idea because it throws the body off balance and if you don't need that supplementation, it can actually be a *bad* thing. Estrogen dominance (too much estrogen) is linked with breast cancer as well as various other concerns.

Soy is also known to affect the thyroid gland- how the body uses and produces thyroid hormone.

Bottom line- soy can act as a pharmaceutical in the body. If you need those properties, (if you are *low* in estrogen, for instance) then in moderation it can potentially be good, but if you don't- it can be potentially hazardous to your health.

[gymbych]

Ack!

[freebirdmac]

Eat all the soy you want and don't worry about it. There is so much bogus info out there and so many people take sound bites from questionable or highly specialized studies it's ridiculous.

Choose a whey or soy isolate based on your preferences and tastes. As always, try to get as much out of real food as possible.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by freebirdmac

Eat all the soy you want and don't worry about it. There is so much bogus info out there and so many people take sound bites from questionable or highly specialized studies it's ridiculous.

Choose a whey or soy isolate based on your preferences and tastes. As always, try to get as much out of real food as possible.

Tell that to my endocrinologist, nutritionist and primary care docs I find it interesting that I've received the same cautions from each. Given my health history, it's something I've talked with them in depth about.

(To the OP) Everyone has to sift through the information and make their own decisions- but I'd be wary of anyone saying for certain that something is or isn't OK. Do your own research- talk to your own doctors- make your own decisions.

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by solstice

Tell that to my endocrinologist, nutritionist and primary care docs I find it interesting that I've received the same cautions from each. Given my health history, it's something I've talked with them in depth about.

(To the OP) Everyone has to sift through the information and make their own decisions- but I'd be wary of anyone saying for certain that something is or isn't OK. Do your own research- talk to your own doctors- make your own decisions.

They are simply taking the easy road out or being lazy. Also most patients have a very limited threshold for understanding complex issues and they have limited time. My excellent physician and acclaimed cancer surgeon will tell a patient open to understanding the technical details the real story. I am a researcher myself and understand the delicacy of limited studies, funding sources, objectives, statistics, ad nauseum. I *have* researched this. I *am* hypothyroid. The data available is laughable. There is not one peer-reviewed study that shows soy is bad for anyone not allergic to it. You have far more to fear from all of the chemicals you use in your house, on your body, and in your food. This is nothing more than the latest knee-jerk reaction.

You have made *your* choice, which is fine. Putting fear into people isn't. I will say the corn and milk industries are greatly appreciative of such word of mouth fear-mongering.

[solstice]

I have made my decision based on what I've seen it do to my own body as well as what medical professionals have advised (in general too much of ANYthing isn't a good thing, and so many think that if a little soy or whatever is good- alot should be better) For me- I had to have my thyroid meds adjusted significantly when I went vegetarian for awhile (read: heavy intake of soy). I also experienced symptoms of estrogen excess. (Skin issues, mood issues etc.) I have no doubt that it acts as a pharmaceutical in the body. But- it's not as if it's an acute issue for everyone- people should experiment for themselves- read as much as possible from a variety of sources, if in doubt- give it a shot- keep a journal and see if it has any affect. It may- it may not. But just as it's not good to scare people into thinking it's going to kill them or something- neither is it OK to tell them go ahead and have as much as they like.... Neither extreme is a very good way to go IMO.

Originally Posted by freebirdmac

They are simply taking the easy road out or being lazy. Also most patients have a very limited threshold for understanding complex issues and they have limited time. My excellent physician and acclaimed cancer surgeon will tell a patient open to understanding the technical details the real story. I am a researcher myself and understand the delicacy of limited studies, funding sources, objectives, statistics, ad nauseum. I *have* researched this. I *am* hypothyroid. The data available is laughable. There is not one peer-reviewed study that shows soy is bad for anyone not allergic to it. You have far more to fear from all of the chemicals you use in your house, on your body, and in your food. This is nothing more than the latest knee-jerk reaction.

You have made *your* choice, which is fine. Putting fear into people isn't. I will say the corn and milk industries are greatly appreciative of such word of mouth fear-mongering.

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by solstice

I have made my decision based on what I've seen it do to my own body as well as what medical professionals have advised (in general too much of ANYthing isn't a good thing, and so many think that if a little soy or whatever is good- alot should be better) For me- I had to have my thyroid meds adjusted significantly when I went vegetarian for awhile (read: heavy intake of soy). I also experienced symptoms of estrogen excess. (Skin issues, mood issues etc.) I have no doubt that it acts as a pharmaceutical in the body. But- it's not as if it's an acute issue for everyone- people should experiment for themselves- read as much as possible from a variety of sources, if in doubt- give it a shot- keep a journal and see if it has any affect. It may- it may not. But just as it's not good to scare people into thinking it's going to kill them or something- neither is it OK to tell them go ahead and have as much as they like.... Neither extreme is a very good way to go IMO.

I am really surprised your endo did not warn you about vegetarian diets when you are hypo. You have to be careful of iodine, calcium, and fiber issues which can impact thyroid levels. As for the estrogen you should have been warned that a non-meat diet can drastically reduce estradiol levels very quickly. Not to mention the effects being hypo already has on estradiol. Pinning the blame strictly on soy is, well nuts.

Even if someone who is hypo demonstrates a proven response to soy, you simply adjust the meds. Hypos should have regular bloodwork to check levels. It's no different than upping the fiber in one's diet or dropping sources of iodine. Of course most hypos have hashimoto's which means adjustments to meds will need to be made periodically even if there are no changes in diet.

[solstice]

Do you have credible studies that prove that soy does NOT affect those who do not already have thyroid concerns? It's easy to adjust meds for those with a known condition. It's not so easy (or desireable) to start meds if someone doesn't have a concern there already.

Regardless- the point remains- the one I was trying to get across in the first place- it's something to be aware of and, like anything else- moderation is a good thing. If it's a possibility that something may affect the body in a negative manner, it's probably a good idea to be mindful of it and choose moderation. Even I still have the occasional soy- I'm certainly not maligning it- I just think that people should realize that large quantities of certain things can have possible undesired effects.

Originally Posted by freebirdmac

I am really surprised your endo did not warn you about vegetarian diets when you are hypo. You have to be careful of iodine, calcium, and fiber issues which can impact thyroid levels. As for the estrogen you should have been warned that a non-meat diet can drastically reduce estradiol levels very quickly. Not to mention the effects being hypo already has on estradiol. Pinning the blame strictly on soy is, well nuts.

Even if someone who is hypo demonstrates a proven response to soy, you simply adjust the meds. Hypos should have regular bloodwork to check levels. It's no different than upping the fiber in one's diet or dropping sources of iodine. Of course most hypos have hashimoto's which means adjustments to meds will need to be made periodically even if there are no changes in diet.

[SexyChic]

I've been drinking soy milk for the past 2 years and I noticed a huge difference on how it affects me...When I start drinking cow's milk again, my skin breaks out and I feel bloated.

I am not lactose intolerant either. I have also tried almond milk, and it tastes pretty good, but it is kinda thin in shakes.

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by solstice

Do you have credible studies that prove that soy does NOT affect those who do not already have thyroid concerns? It's easy to adjust meds for those with a known condition. It's not so easy (or desireable) to start meds if someone doesn't have a concern there already.

Regardless- the point remains- the one I was trying to get across in the first place- it's something to be aware of and, like anything else- moderation is a good thing. If it's a possibility that something may affect the body in a negative manner, it's probably a good idea to be mindful of it and choose moderation. Even I still have the occasional soy- I'm certainly not maligning it- I just think that people should realize that large quantities of certain things can have possible undesired effects.

"?collectively the findings provide little evidence that in euthyroid [having a normal thyroid gland], iodine-replete [no iodine deficiency] individuals, soy foods, or isoflavones adversely affect thyroid function. In contrast, some evidence suggests that soy foods, by inhibiting absorption, may increase the dose of thyroid hormone required by hypothyroid patients. However, hypothyroid adults need not avoid soy foods." (Thyroid. 2006 Mar;16(3):249-58. Mark Messina) Thus, it is possible that in people with a pre-existing hypothyroid condition, their soy intake may affect the dose of medication needed. Those individuals need to consult their doctor, who will make recommendations on medication dose based on blood tests and other observations.

And there are others. It's pretty much a proven non-issue. You will not get hypo by consuming soy. You may or may not need to adjust meds if hypo and soy is added to the diet. Just as you would if your iodine, calcium, or fiber changed in your diet.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by SexyChic

I've been drinking soy milk for the past 2 years and I noticed a huge difference on how it affects me...When I start drinking cow's milk again, my skin breaks out and I feel bloated.

I am not lactose intolerant either. I have also tried almond milk, and it tastes pretty good, but it is kinda thin in shakes.

It's possible to be sensitive to foods/substances but not actually be allergic or intolerant. You might just be sensitive to dairy. Do you have the same reaction to other dairy products or just milk? (curious) Some people find they can't do milk but they do OK with cheese, yogurt, etc. (Throw a bit of plain yogurt in with the almond milk and it thickens things up very nicely, btw )

If you do like and can do the soy- the soy chai is divine- and Silk has a great hazlenut coffee creamer- 15 calories

[solstice]

Interesting. I suppose it *could* just be a coincidence that a significant number of vegetarians I know have hypo and a surprising number of the older children in the moms groups that I am a part of who were raised on soy formula have been diagnosed as well. Seems an odd coincidence to be wholly unrelated to soy consumption. Not saying that isn't possible (I've seen stranger LOL!) but it does raise an eyebrow. *shrugs*

Also- the clip provided does not state that no evidence is found- it states that there is little evidence, and from what I can gather- this was a review of the studies of others- a review article- not his own *study*? And without being able to get ahold of the article in its entirety (got a link rather than just a small snippet?)- that's about all the comment I can make.

Once again- the point is- moderation isn't a bad thing.

Originally Posted by freebirdmac

"?collectively the findings provide little evidence that in euthyroid [having a normal thyroid gland], iodine-replete [no iodine deficiency] individuals, soy foods, or isoflavones adversely affect thyroid function. In contrast, some evidence suggests that soy foods, by inhibiting absorption, may increase the dose of thyroid hormone required by hypothyroid patients. However, hypothyroid adults need not avoid soy foods." (Thyroid. 2006 Mar;16(3):249-58. Mark Messina) Thus, it is possible that in people with a pre-existing hypothyroid condition, their soy intake may affect the dose of medication needed. Those individuals need to consult their doctor, who will make recommendations on medication dose based on blood tests and other observations.

And there are others. It's pretty much a proven non-issue. You will not get hypo by consuming soy. You may or may not need to adjust meds if hypo and soy is added to the diet. Just as you would if your iodine, calcium, or fiber changed in your diet.

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by solstice

Interesting. I suppose it *could* just be a coincidence that a significant number of vegetarians I know have hypo and a surprising number of the older children in the moms groups that I am a part of who were raised on soy formula have been diagnosed as well. Seems an odd coincidence to be wholly unrelated to soy consumption. Not saying that isn't possible (I've seen stranger LOL!) but it does raise an eyebrow. *shrugs*

Also- the clip provided does not state that no evidence is found- it states that there is little evidence, and from what I can gather- this was a review of the studies of others- a review article- not his own *study*? And without being able to get ahold of the article in its entirety (got a link rather than just a small snippet?)- that's about all the comment I can make.

Once again- the point is- moderation isn't a bad thing.

It would be easy to say soy consumption caused thyroid problems when no problems were seen prior to soy consumption, however that is not the cause and effect. Goitrogens may impact thyroid levels in some people but it's not the cause of the thyroid problem. They can serve to highlight an underlying condition. If you are already known to be hypothyroid, any change in your diet that involves iodine, fiber, calcium, antacids, and goitrongens may impact you and you may need to change dosage of your meds. If you are subclinical, i.e. have no symptoms or knowledge of a thyroid problem then a change in the diet to include more or less iodine or goitrogens may highlight an underlying condition. That is a blessing!!! Thyroid problems are a risk factor for heart disease in adults and growth issues in kids. Anything that uncovers an underlying problem is a good thing!

There are 3 major causes of hypothyroidism; insufficient iodine, exposure to radiation, and Hasimoto's disease (which is an autoimmune issue with at least some genetic links). Table salt was iodized specifically for this reason, to help people get a sufficient amount of iodine in their diets and prevent hypothyroidism and goiter. As recent as my mom's young adulthood goiters and hypo were commonplace. Iodized salt worked, cases of hypothyroidism and goiter plummeted. Now it's going back up again. Why? People have been restricting salt intake due to cardiovascular concerns. People also buy a considerable amount of noniodized salt. Also, some of the most iodized foods are processed foods which more and more people are trying to move away from (bodybuilders and vegetarians!). Simple iodine deficiency can lead to hypothyroidism and goiter. But one can easily be subclinical and not even know there is an underlying problem.

Radiation is self explanatory and why iodine pills are given to people living close to a nuclear power plant, or at least stockpiled at a nearby hospital.

Hashimoto's disease is an autoimmune disorder whereby the body views the thyroid as something evil that needs to be destroyed. There are genetic links but there is also postulation that all of the chemicals in the environment, food, cleaning products, etc. may be taxing our immune systems and putting them into overdrive. People with Hashi's may alternate between hyper and hypo before settling into hypo with a slow degradation of thyroid function.

Goitrongens include soy, strawberries, broccoli, spinach, peaches, peanuts, pine nuts, collards, cabbage, canola, turnips, cauliflower, kale, bamboo shoots, bok choy, and many others.

http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/e...ea0015p336.htm
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs...ournalCode=thy

The KEY to all of this, in the absence of radiation and Hashi's, is sufficient iodine intake.

[DeannaOnlyne]

http://www.********/product/index.js...entPage=family -- The link doesn't work.... ummm It's GNC Isolate 28

Has anyone tried this one?

I've been using a soy product, but want to switch to Whey because I read that it absorbs (or hits..??) faster than soy....

Yet as I look at the nutrition facts there is some huge differences in the vitamins... in the one linked above there are hardly any added vitamins... but in products like Muscle Milk and Isopure, and the soy product I'm taking there are at least 50% DV in many vitamins... I'm also looking at Designer Whey, they have nifty 2goPacks! But again, the vitamin issue.....

When shopping for a product, should vitamins be a concern?

[May0819]

i think just like any other supplement out there its about personal preference, goals, how your body reacts,etc. nothing fitness/nutrition is tailored to each person individually; its a mtter of trial & error & finding out what works best for YOU!.
on that note ... & a little FYI for everyone the May/June issue of M&F Hers explains the benefits of mixing 1/2 scoop whey w/ 1/2 scoop soy > check it out!

[solstice]

Well, if you're taking a multivitamin and/or other vitamin supps- there's really no *need* to get it in your protein supplement *also*. So it really all depends on what else you're taking.

I recommend Optimum Whey for taste- alot of people around here love it. (Also- the store here sells it ALOT cheaper than GNC...)

Originally Posted by DeannaOnlyne

http://www.********/product/index.js...entPage=family -- The link doesn't work.... ummm It's GNC Isolate 28

Has anyone tried this one?

I've been using a soy product, but want to switch to Whey because I read that it absorbs (or hits..??) faster than soy....

Yet as I look at the nutrition facts there is some huge differences in the vitamins... in the one linked above there are hardly any added vitamins... but in products like Muscle Milk and Isopure, and the soy product I'm taking there are at least 50% DV in many vitamins... I'm also looking at Designer Whey, they have nifty 2goPacks! But again, the vitamin issue.....

When shopping for a product, should vitamins be a concern?

[DeannaOnlyne]

Thank you.

Well I grabbed this protien at Walmart... I thought it said Body For Life, but in my hurry I misread it and it is really Body Fortress... Close... But IDK. It doesn't taste near as yummy as the soy I was using but it has double the protien. It doesn't have the vitamins, but I your probably right about taking a supplement. I guess I just like the idea of more! wierd

So, do you find that soy tastes better than whey?

[Knux]

Isopure is carb free whey. It comes in powder or in bottles, and the flavors (I've only had bottled) are delicious. My mom drinks them but sometimes I try them. I usually use ON, which is great too.