Should you have post workout carbs while cutting.....

[2X-eed]

If you have lots of pre workout carbs before (70 grams), and intra-workout carbs as well (35g WMS)? I usually have some smarties, a few spoons of honey, or a jelly sandwich after. Would it benefit my cut if I got rid of the PWO simple carbs?

[KeepOnShruggin]

unless you're doing something like the anabolic diet where carbs are restricted to <30g, pre and post workout nutrition is important for recovery purposes and it will give you more energy throughout the day

I do a half cup of dry oats pre and half cup post, with a scoop of whey in each shake.
as long as what you have fits into your macros and calories it's good

[2X-eed]

Well my current macros are:
250g Protein
200g carbs
50g fat

[Epictetus IV]

Yes! Post-Workout nutrition is important! IMO, Breakfast and PWO are the two most important meals of the day. Get them carbs!

[plateau_max]

I would have to say during a cut you should at least minimize simple carbs and stick to fruit for a post workout carb source. In any case, I would say don't eat crap like smarties.

[in10city]

Originally Posted by 2X-eed

If you have lots of pre workout carbs before (70 grams), and intra-workout carbs as well (35g WMS)? I usually have some smarties, a few spoons of honey, or a jelly sandwich after. Would it benefit my cut if I got rid of the PWO simple carbs?

Unless your training is protracted or have not had adequate pre-exercise nutrition, I don't see why intra-training carbs would be needed.

Here's some alternative information to consider ...

Given the appropriate conditions, and with proper pre-training nutrition, it is not necessary to conume a large amount of carbs or sugar for that matter to elevate insulin and blood sugar in order to facilitate nutrient uptake, protein synthesis and to shut off the catabolic switch. Insulin can be elevated through various additive mechanisms. And a level less than a spike will go a long way. A good dose of Leucine + whey hydrolysate as well as other supplements such as R-ALA & Bitter Melon will go a long way towards achieving this. You can benefit from some carbs, you just don't need to down a ton of sugar or carbs to get the benefits. They may not even be needed at all under some conditions.

There are both an insulin dependant and insulin independant pathway to protein synthesis. They are synergistic and there is an additive effect. A small increase in insulin + a high level of amino acids is more anabolic than either alone.

Check these out too...

Do post-exercise carbs actually help?

http://user210805.websitewizard.com/...R-Jan-2008.pdf

[petelv26]

i would have to say yes. just dont get carried away. cutting or not, post workout carbs are important. i always have a gatorade mixed with two scoops of whey after my training even in the last few weeks leading up to competition, and i dont think it hurt me one bit. if your totally freaked about taking in that much sugar, then try grounding up a half cup of oats in a coffey grinder or blender untill it turns to a fine powder, and mix that in with you post workout protein. either way, in my opinion you have to have those post workout carbs.

[Ke422azn]

Originally Posted by 2X-eed

If you have lots of pre workout carbs before (70 grams), and intra-workout carbs as well (35g WMS)? I usually have some smarties, a few spoons of honey, or a jelly sandwich after. Would it benefit my cut if I got rid of the PWO simple carbs?

Is your goal to reach 3-4% body fat for a competition?


I already know the answer, which is NO. You should stick to basics.

[2X-eed]

Originally Posted by in10city

Unless your training is protracted or have not had adequate pre-exercise nutrition, I don't see why intra-training carbs would be needed.

Here's some alternative information to consider ...

Given the appropriate conditions, and with proper pre-training nutrition, it is not necessary to conume a large amount of carbs or sugar for that matter to elevate insulin and blood sugar in order to facilitate nutrient uptake, protein synthesis and to shut off the catabolic switch. Insulin can be elevated through various additive mechanisms. And a level less than a spike will go a long way. A good dose of Leucine + whey hydrolysate as well as other supplements such as R-ALA & Bitter Melon will go a long way towards achieving this. You can benefit from some carbs, you just don't need to down a ton of sugar or carbs to get the benefits. They may not even be needed at all under some conditions.

There are both an insulin dependant and insulin independant pathway to protein synthesis. They are synergistic and there is an additive effect. A small increase in insulin + a high level of amino acids is more anabolic than either alone.

Check these out too...

Do post-exercise carbs actually help?

http://user210805.websitewizard.com/...R-Jan-2008.pdf

Yeah, I mix the WMS with Xtend. Are you saying I should drop the WMS?

Good info in this thread guys. I'll get to repping all of you when I recharge.

[Captain Sagara]

Always,if not doing Keto...

What i do is if i'm cutting i have always complex carbohydrates...

Bulking i have Simple Carbohydrates Pre & Post-Workout...

If i'm doing Keto like i'm doing now,none

[in10city]

Originally Posted by 2X-eed

Yeah, I mix the WMS with Xtend. Are you saying I should drop the WMS?

Good info in this thread guys. I'll get to repping all of you when I recharge.

How long is your training session? If you've had at least a meal before and you're not training for 2 hours, then WMS is probably unnecessary.

If you've been using it for a while, you might want to taper off using it so you don't end up with a perceived "energy crisis".

[2X-eed]

Originally Posted by in10city

How long is your training session? If you've had at least a meal before and you're not training for 2 hours, then WMS is probably unnecessary.

If you've been using it for a while, you might want to taper off using it so you don't end up with a perceived "energy crisis".

I do 20 minutes of cardio, then 40 minutes of intense weight training with short rest periods (~45 seconds).

[in10city]

Originally Posted by 2X-eed

I do 20 minutes of cardio, then 40 minutes of intense weight training with short rest periods (~45 seconds).

Cardio before weights lol ...

Unless you've done it before without WMS and have bonked big time, then WMS is probably not needed - or at the very least not as much as you've indicated ...

[2X-eed]

Originally Posted by in10city

Cardio before weights lol ...

Unless you've done it before without WMS and have bonked big time, then WMS is probably not needed - or at the very least not as much as you've indicated ...

It's low/moderate intensity cardio. Almost like a long warm up. It gives me a kick start in keeping my heart rate up, and it's actually improves my performance in the weight room. It's not like I'm doing HIIT pre-workout.

[Hack Squat]

I don't think you should be taking carbs during your workout if you're cutting. I still take simple carbs PWO cutting or not though many don't agree.

[Jules Verne]

Originally Posted by Hack Squat

I don't think you should be taking carbs during your workout if you're cutting. I still take simple carbs PWO cutting or not though many don't agree.

Yea. Personally I don't eat a lot of PWO carbs cutting, and they are complex, but I don't see how someone can agree/disagree with 'carbs' (complex or simple) PWO without seeing the rest of your diet, including pre-WO, relative amounts of carbs and possibly even witnessing your WO.

I prefer to spread out my carb intake a bit, than jam them in PWO. But that's just what seems to work better for me. When I worked out at night I was better off jamming a lot more carbs pre and immediately post WO.

[LayzieBone085]

Originally Posted by 2X-eed

It's low/moderate intensity cardio. Almost like a long warm up. It gives me a kick start in keeping my heart rate up, and it's actually improves my performance in the weight room. It's not like I'm doing HIIT pre-workout.

i still say you should do this cardio afterwards, since you are cutting use all the glycogen you have in your body and focus on your weights, save the moderate stuff for afterwards.

As for your post-workout carb choices i would say get some complex carbs, you get adequate pre-workout nutrition and you sustain a insulin spike throughout your workout there is no need to keep jacking it up again especially after your workout, you could deal with some oats post-workout and this will be just fine.

The whole post - workout spike is overrated with proper pre/during workout nutrition.

I would also suggest passing on the WMS during your workout especially on a cut, stick with a EAA or a Beta Alanine supplement, i would highly suggest Bodywell's First Order to keep energy levels up and delaying fatigue from an intense workout.

Ive also posted a bunch of times about how honey is not the best post-workout carb source to use, but to each his own.. there is a study on t-nation.com by john berardi if you want me to pull it up

[2X-eed]

Originally Posted by Jules Verne

Yea. Personally I don't eat a lot of PWO carbs cutting, and they are complex, but I don't see how someone can agree/disagree with 'carbs' (complex or simple) PWO without seeing the rest of your diet, including pre-WO, relative amounts of carbs and possibly even witnessing your WO.

I prefer to spread out my carb intake a bit, than jam them in PWO. But that's just what seems to work better for me. When I worked out at night I was better off jamming a lot more carbs pre and immediately post WO.

Here's an example of my diet from my log:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...&postcount=206

[Jules Verne]

Originally Posted by 2X-eed

Here's an example of my diet from my log:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...&postcount=206

Looks like you are loading carbs around your WO, which is fine. Also looks plenty to me. If you wanted to reduce calories shaving off 20g of carbs pre WO and some during the workout would probably be fine. Worth a try anyway, see how you feel. You could also reduce them by more than just a little (say have 30-40g preWO, none during and 20-40 PWO) and do re-feed/carb-up days every 4-7 days.

It looks fairly solid, from here I think you're going to just have to experiment a bit to see what works best for you. Or take some more experienced advice from someone who has experience training different people. Everyone can chime in with what they would do, and that might be good for some suggestions to try, but I think you are going to have to self-experiment a bit.

[2X-eed]

Originally Posted by Jules Verne

Looks like you are loading carbs around your WO, which is fine. Also looks plenty to me. If you wanted to reduce calories shaving off 20g of carbs pre WO and some during the workout would probably be fine. Worth a try anyway, see how you feel. You could also reduce them by more than just a little (say have 30-40g preWO, none during and 20-40 PWO) and do re-feed/carb-up days every 4-7 days.

It looks fairly solid, from here I think you're going to just have to experiment a bit to see what works best for you. Or take some more experienced advice from someone who has experience training different people. Everyone can chime in with what they would do, and that might be good for some suggestions to try, but I think you are going to have to self-experiment a bit.

Thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to take your advice, but instead of just dropping carbs outright right away, I'll reduce carbs whenever I hit a fat-loss plateau.

Great advice.

[LayzieBone085]

Originally Posted by 2X-eed

Thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to take your advice, but instead of just dropping carbs outright right away, I'll reduce carbs whenever I hit a fat-loss plateau.

Great advice.

i agree with jules, take in a decent amount before hand, about 40 or so afterwards, and get some for breakfast, these are the ideal times to load up on carbs to keep you fueled for the day and around your workout

focus the rest of your meals on protein + fat meals and minimal carbs from green veggies or even a bit from carrots or corn.

This will keep you lean even while cutting and it helped me cut over 100lbs

good luck