I don't see how insane numbers are possible

[soxfan0423]

Other people have said it, but I'll say it again. Your numbers are not great by PL standards, but they aren't bad at all. I've never seen someone squat 400 at my gym (except for one guy that did a glorified calf raise), and I've never seen anyone else deadlift, let alone pull over 4 plates...well except for me You probably don't have greatest genetics, but they seem to be well above average.

If you are at a commercial gym I'm willing to be you are one of the stronger guys there. I'm by no means the biggest guy in my gym, but would still own pretty much everyone strength wise, as I'm sure you would.

[weightlifter46]

I got bad information then. There is something in Vegas in April...it is on their website.

[weightlifter46]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

it will take some guys 5 years to get to 275. I have never known or seen a guy who started at 275...its not that common, lol

John is right. You usually don't see that many real strong lifters in gyms. I have been working them (and now own one) for 30 years now. I have not seen that many big, strong lifters. You get a lot of those guys who can bench a ton, but can't squat anything. Had one at my gym could bench 430 but could only squat around 380. Natural born benchers is what I call them. You can't beat hard work period. Keep plugging and you will get results. I could squat 350 @ 135lbs. as a high school senior and now am around 174lbs. and 5 weeks ago squatted 475 for 2 x 2. I tell all the young guys....just keep working at it. It comes with time.

[steveo-g]

Originally Posted by pHEnomIC

Well ive been lifting seriously for 2 years now. on and off before that. I am up to 6'2 220lbs, 460 deadlift, 400 squat, 285 bench.

I have seen steady progress in all these lifts and have always trained for general strength and size. Even if i have linear progress, i don't see how numbers like 800 deadlift, similar squat, and 500lb benches are possible. Is there some secret to it? Or will i eventually get up there as long as i keep training well (diet, rest, etc)?

genetics or roids prob both in a lot of cases

[Dark_MadMax]

Originally Posted by IronBender800

I think i remember jeff lewis saying on critical bench he was only doing around 275 on bench when he first started....

"Only" for christ sake? I mean 135 -165 lbs is something more realistic from the guy "who just started" .On the other hand if you were active athelte before (albeit never did barbell) you cant say you "just started".

[Mr Beer]

Originally Posted by weightlifter46

John is right. You usually don't see that many real strong lifters in gyms. I have been working them (and now own one) for 30 years now. I have not seen that many big, strong lifters. You get a lot of those guys who can bench a ton, but can't squat anything. Had one at my gym could bench 430 but could only squat around 380. Natural born benchers is what I call them.

I have NEVER, and I mean not once, seen anyone in my gym squat to parallel (except me).

[Danimal]

Originally Posted by pHEnomIC

My routine:
~4300 cals daily, 350g protein, 365g carbs, 160g fats. (I maintain this 5-6 days weekly.)

Day 1: Chest/tri
8x3 Bench press (close grip lately), 5x3 Floor press, 5x3 machine flys, 3x5 tate press, 5x3 tricep pulldown.

Day 2: Back/bi
10x3 Deadlift, 10x3 pullups, 5x5 tbar rows, 3x6 bent bb rows, 3x10 curls

Day 3: Rest

Day 4: Shoulders
Military press standing 3x8, Upright rows 3x8, Shrugs 3x8, Behind neck Mil Press 3x10

Day 5: Legs
Lots of squats: back, front, hack, calf raises 3x20-30

Day 6-7: Rest

7-10 hrs sleep daily
Supps: Multi, Fish Oil, Whey, creatine (off cycle), and shock therapy occasionally.
I only party about once weekly

Your routine is most likely the problem. It's not that you won't gain strength from it- most people can do any type of routine and get somewhat stronger. What happens is you only get to a certain point and then plateau because you've reached the limits that your routine is giving you.

I sound like a broken record by now because I say this all the time. If you want to get strong, then you need to train like you want to get strong. Build your routine around each lift and select assistance that helps those lifts. Stop thinking "leg day" "chest day" Think squat day, bench day, deadlift day. You are almost there with your routine now but you need to change up the sets/ reps and examine why you are doing the assistance lifts you are doing now. Can you give me a reason why you are doing any of your assistance? Why are you doing front squats or hack squats. Why are you doing upright rows and behind the neck press. Each assistance lift should have a purpose, not something that is done just to go thru the motions or fill space/time because you think you need a certain amount of exercises to have an effective workout. Some of my best workouts ever have a total of 2 or 3 exercises in them, but if you work those 2-3 lifts to a high level of intensity, you don't need anything else.

[freeride88]

You're wasting money on all the protein. You don't need that much. Try knocking it down to 200 grams a day or so. Heck, I don't always get 200 grams, and I'm 90lbs heavier than you are. Also, cut out the partying. Alcohol isn't conducive to your goals. If you drink soft drinks, cut those out too.

I think your volume is pretty high for some exercises. Do a heavier overhead press, lower reps. Cut out the behind the neck stuff, it's no better than the standard overhead, and risk of injury is much higher. On squat, get some bands and do some different waves. There's no need to do three kinds of squat on a leg day, and no need in my opinion to do hack squats at all. Try Zerchers, for a change. Are you reading T-Nation.com articles and elitefts.com's Q&A section? If you're not, you should.

All this is just my opinion, of course. Good luck with it.

*edit* Just noticed that Danimal and I agreed on a few things without meaning to. That should tell you something. I had squat day today, guess what I did. I squatted. 8 sets of doubles, 275lbs plus average bands heavily choked on a slightly below parallel box. Did five sets of seated calf raises, then four sets of abs and went home. Don't overthink it.

[pHEnomIC]

I explain my assistances in that my first routine was based off compounds first and some isolations after. I do them just to have variety. This routine has gotten me to the point of where I am now. I did madcow 5x5 for a summer and my big 3 went up 20 lbs + in a couple months. I have stuck to that general strategy cuz it seems to give me fairly steady results. It has just started to peak it seems.

The rep ranges are what i did in the past week. Ive always done 3 sets of 8-10 on every exercise. Recently ive changed stuff up to see some variety on the reps.

[Earthtime]

Originally Posted by Danimal

Your routine is most likely the problem. It's not that you won't gain strength from it- most people can do any type of routine and get somewhat stronger. What happens is you only get to a certain point and then plateau because you've reached the limits that your routine is giving you.

I sound like a broken record by now because I say this all the time. If you want to get strong, then you need to train like you want to get strong. Build your routine around each lift and select assistance that helps those lifts. Stop thinking "leg day" "chest day" Think squat day, bench day, deadlift day. You are almost there with your routine now but you need to change up the sets/ reps and examine why you are doing the assistance lifts you are doing now. Can you give me a reason why you are doing any of your assistance? Why are you doing front squats or hack squats. Why are you doing upright rows and behind the neck press. Each assistance lift should have a purpose, not something that is done just to go thru the motions or fill space/time because you think you need a certain amount of exercises to have an effective workout. Some of my best workouts ever have a total of 2 or 3 exercises in them, but if you work those 2-3 lifts to a high level of intensity, you don't need anything else.

If you want to get strong, then you need to train like you want to get strong. = stay with heavy weight Do an occasional workout with your 8-10 reps.

Continue doing front squats. I'm sure you've seen why from your experience by now.
Ditch the hacks.
Ditch the upright rows and do some lateral raises for shoulder balance/health.

[Earthtime]

Originally Posted by freeride88

You're wasting money on all the protein. You don't need that much. Try knocking it down to 200 grams a day or so. Heck, I don't always get 200 grams, and I'm 90lbs heavier than you are. Also, cut out the partying. Alcohol isn't conducive to your goals. If you drink soft drinks, cut those out too.

I think your volume is pretty high for some exercises. Do a heavier overhead press, lower reps. Cut out the behind the neck stuff, it's no better than the standard overhead, and risk of injury is much higher. On squat, get some bands and do some different waves. There's no need to do three kinds of squat on a leg day, and no need in my opinion to do hack squats at all. Try Zerchers, for a change. Are you reading T-Nation.com articles and elitefts.com's Q&A section? If you're not, you should.

He's right about the protein. Keep the partying. lol Softdrinks are ok in moderation. lol

He's right about some of the volume, right about heavier overhead press, use behind the neck for warmup only.

Fuk the bands. If you don't use a squat suit you don't need them. Do 2 types of squat on leg day. As stated above, you know why by now. Ditch the hacks. lol

All you really need to do is re-new your approach to the training more frequently, and find a good training partner.

[freeride88]

Originally Posted by Earthtime

Fuk the bands. If you don't use a squat suit you don't need them. Do 2 types of squat on leg day. As stated above, you know why by now. Ditch the hacks. lol

Accommodating resistance is for equipped lifters only? I'll let the raw powerlifters and strongmen of the world know. Thanks for the info.

Shut up.

[Earthtime]

Originally Posted by freeride88

Accommodating resistance is for equipped lifters only? I'll let the raw powerlifters and strongmen of the world know. Thanks for the info.

You let them know. Get back to me with the results.

Don't forget to party more frequently. And stay away from the waves.

[TheKansan]

Originally Posted by Bodysteele

So whatever people want to say about it genetics plays a pretty big role especially if your are geared towards either benching or pulling....its rare people are insanely good at either. You can be proficient but to be freakishly strong in both is truly to be gifted.

I have only trained 10 months and can squat 336 and deadlift 411. This is after never having lifted or trained for any such sport in my life. (I was an obese computer geek). Genetics definately play a role here. My lower body gains strength much faster than my upper body. I am pretty sure I will be pulling 500 pounds by the end of the year (I haven't tested my strength in deadlifts since before I did Smolov).

[Kinc551]

some people progress faster than others. leverage and genetics both play a big role. Also, powerlifting suits help if you train in them and learn the proper grooves.

[gunzandwheelz]

Originally Posted by weightlifter46

I got bad information then. There is something in Vegas in April...it is on their website.

Sorry, nothing in Vegas this year for the USPF. Very familiar with USPF no Vegas meet this year. The next meet in Vegas is the WABDL Worlds in November. Should be a good meet. Hell, Vegas is a great town set something up and I will show. See you in RI @ the Nationals in June, you have a great total and will be real competitive.

[disbeast57]

Originally Posted by freeride88

Accommodating resistance is for equipped lifters only? I'll let the raw powerlifters and strongmen of the world know. Thanks for the info.

Shut up.

/OWNED

[Bodysteele]

Originally Posted by TheKansan

I have only trained 10 months and can squat 336 and deadlift 411. This is after never having lifted or trained for any such sport in my life. (I was an obese computer geek). Genetics definately play a role here. My lower body gains strength much faster than my upper body. I am pretty sure I will be pulling 500 pounds by the end of the year (I haven't tested my strength in deadlifts since before I did Smolov).

Ya, plus dude probably lose like 120 lbs in those 10 months at the same time.

Imagine if he started out in shape and had no regard for caloric intake. Gotta assume AT THE VERY LEAST 20-30% more results...at least 10% more overall strength in these lifts at the very least...plus dude does a lot of high intensity cardio(jogging) which blunts gains to SOME extent.

I

[proc23]

Originally Posted by pHEnomIC

Well ive been lifting seriously for 2 years now. on and off before that. I am up to 6'2 220lbs, 460 deadlift, 400 squat, 285 bench.

I have seen steady progress in all these lifts and have always trained for general strength and size. Even if i have linear progress, i don't see how numbers like 800 deadlift, similar squat, and 500lb benches are possible. Is there some secret to it? Or will i eventually get up there as long as i keep training well (diet, rest, etc)?

I have a friend with great genetics / roids, who after completing a full chest workout could bench 550lbs 3 times and he only weighed 215. I also seen him squat 1200 at 3/4 depth. but then he got on meth and cant do it any more

[Earthtime]

Originally Posted by disbeast57

/OWNED

... and a new set of bands, from Iron Woody?

[Earthtime]

Originally Posted by freeride88

Accommodating resistance is for equipped lifters only? I'll let the raw powerlifters and strongmen of the world know. Thanks for the info.

Shut up.

Proceed to checkout ?

[theduffman]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

it will take some guys 5 years to get to 275. I have never known or seen a guy who started at 275...its not that common, lol

I've read that article and he phrased it funny but the article says when he started getting serious not when he just started he was getting 275 for 3 and like 225 for 5? something like that.

anyways Yea to the OP 4 things
1) genetics - and I don't just mean in base strength, Freshman year without touching a weight I could bench 185 and pull 300 but my strength gains are real slow. I just gain mass like it's my damn job, but after 2 years of working out whether you compete or not your lifts are really good
2) Juice - self explanatory
3) Diet - a lot of people work their asses off in the gym and still eat like bodybuilders and can't gain the mass they need. You still look pretty ripped and I'm not gonna say let yourself go by any means but you've got some room to grow bud with a bigger base you could have much more to work with as far as a good strength base
4) consistency - I can't tell but you seem fine with it but you take breaks you lose strength I got to 315 on bench and 405 on squat around august last year and freshman year in college I've been inconsitent as **** always gone on weekends for debate tournaments, trying to be in a frat, not sleeping etc. etc. neither have gone up much more since then. Stick to it man and change up your workout like the above have said

[John Prophet]

seems like Robby Robinson said when he first benched he did 225x10

[Code_B]

Originally Posted by Mr Beer

I have NEVER, and I mean not once, seen anyone in my gym squat to parallel (except me).

this is true for both of the gyms I go to now (school gym and gold's)

[TheKansan]

Originally Posted by Mr Beer

I have NEVER, and I mean not once, seen anyone in my gym squat to parallel (except me).

Come to my gym, there are some guys who do ATG there. Of course squatting ATG with an empty bar isn't very impressive to most people

[UhhWhatever]

I got a chance to talk to Ed Coan and Wade Hooper a while ago, and I was asking them for any pointers or whatever.

They both told me it seemed like I was doing everything I was supposed to be, I just needed to give it another 10-15 years.

So there you go.

[IronBender800]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

it will take some guys 5 years to get to 275. I have never known or seen a guy who started at 275...its not that common, lol

i know this thread is kinda old now but i had to reply...


Jeff was always a real big guy weighed like 275-300 and i do know guys personally that size that dont train serious and can put up around 275. So its not like hes some freak of nature.

Weak really is a state of mind believe you can be strong and you'll be strong. Genetically im meant to be weak but through hard training and surrounding myself with strong people im now NOT weak at all. Just hit 645 at detroit barbell last night off a box.

[SSK1903]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

seems like Robby Robinson said when he first benched he did 225x10

I have - well, had, RIP - a friend who saw Robby Robinson rep with 675 on deads. How many reps, I don't recall, and I can't exactly find out.

[John Prophet]

Originally Posted by IronBender800

i know this thread is kinda old now but i had to reply...


Jeff was always a real big guy weighed like 275-300 and i do know guys personally that size that dont train serious and can put up around 275. So its not like hes some freak of nature.

Weak really is a state of mind believe you can be strong and you'll be strong. Genetically im meant to be weak but through hard training and surrounding myself with strong people im now NOT weak at all. Just hit 645 at detroit barbell last night off a box.

hate to break it to ya....but pretty much anyone weighing 275-300 that "doesnt train serious" IS a freak of nature. for them 275 is just a bodyweight bench.

how many of them r u going to see at a regular commercial gym? not 2 many

[SSK1903]

bigger people are, as a general rule, always going to move more weight. Simple physics.

But it's not about moving sheer weight alone...relative strength is just as important. What do you think of as a STRONG animal? Gorilla or an elephant? Well an elephant is like a big bulldozer, but there's a reason World Gym used the gorilla for their logo back in the day...