Low Reps and Size?

[markyg]

I think I`m missing something here so please feel free to point it out.

GENERAL consensus is:

Strength = low reps (3-6)
Size = medium reps (6-12)
Endurance = high reps (10-15+)

Now assuming a calorific surplus (as someone bulking would use, say 500+ calories a day over maintenance) would you gain the same amount of size on a strength based workout plan (i.e. low reps) as opposed to a size based workout plan (medium reps) and if so why would you ever use 8-12 reps if you can gain the same amount of size as using low reps with the benefit of increased strength (and vice versa come to think of it)

I was trying to work this out the other day and I couldnt get my head round why 8-12 reps would produce a greater size increase than say 3-6 given the same diet/rest etc. I mean there aren`t many small powerlifters around?

Thoughts? And if I`m totally missing something please point it out to me

[wanderingmax]

the thing is that when you lift reps of 2-6 it you cant lift for really more then 10 seconds, after 10 seconds of exercise your atp levels are pretty much exasuted.
so your body uses less efficient methods for energy production, these methods of energy make a lot of bi products, lactic acid begin one of them, and your body in order to deal with increased amounts of toxic byproducts increases the amount of water in cells in order to dilute the bi products.

i hope i am clear.
basically.
high reps-> muscles cells get full of toxic by products--> body adapts to increased amount of toxins by storing more water--->more water makes you bigger.

i am a pretty heavily biased person so the following is my personal opinion; stick to the 2-6 reps

[DiamondDelts]

Hmmm

[Crazymix]

lol wut..... but i want to know more!

[_Dominik_]

For optimal results I think you need both.

Why kill yourself lifting really heavy weights for low reps all the time trying to get through a decent amount of volume when you could incorporate both and get a lot more done. Focus on strength with low reps on some exercises and hypertrophy with higher reps on the rest. Best of both worlds.

I've tried doing the low rep thing all the time and while I did see some gains in size I was happy with, it beat the crap out of my joints and I started to burn out. My conditioning also went to ****. And when I tried high rep training for a while my strength stalled and it seemed like all I was doing was getting a pump. So these days I incorporate both. The strength gains I make at lower reps allow me to use more weight for higher rep sets later. They work together.

[Defiant1]

Originally Posted by DiamondDelts

Hmmm

Double Hmmm....

In fact....TRIPLE Hmmm (drinks gallon of water for size)

[GreenWave1]

Originally Posted by _Dominik_

For optimal results I think you need both.

Why kill yourself lifting really heavy weights for low reps all the time trying to get through a decent amount of volume when you could incorporate both and get a lot more done. Focus on strength with low reps on some exercises and hypertrophy with higher reps on the rest. Best of both worlds.

I've tried doing the low rep thing all the time and while I did see some gains in size I was happy with, it beat the crap out of my joints and I started to burn out. My conditioning also went to ****. And when I tried high rep training for a while my strength stalled and it seemed like all I was doing was getting a pump. So these days I incorporate both. The strength gains I make at lower reps allow me to use more weight for higher rep sets later. They work together.

That's a great idea. I tend to switch it up, doing 6 rep sets for a while, then go back to 12 rep sets for a while. I'm going to give Dominiks advice and mix it up in the same workout.

[CuT-uP]

my body responds best with 8-12 rep excersizes. on days im working for strength i like do 5 sets of 5 reps.

[markyg]

Originally Posted by DiamondDelts

Hmmm

C'mon DD lets hear your thoughts!!

Dom any specific exercises you use low reps with? I would imagine big compounds? Squats, Deads?

[JOHN GARGANI]

Originally Posted by markyg

C'mon DD lets hear your thoughts!!

Dom any specific exercises you use low reps with? I would imagine big compounds? Squats, Deads?

DD is just scratching his head in perplexion! HAHAHAHAH.....


Domenick: that was a SUPER post! you beat me to the punch....


Marky: it is not that simple, as you outlined it with the reps/strength/size scheme.....the line is blurred many a time....

[monatu]

I assume that you would gain more size on the Hypertrophy program (8-12 reps) than on the strength program (3-6 reps) simply because thats the general consensus :P

IMO strength on your compounds and 8-12 reps on your auxillary's is probly a good way to play it safe.

Otherwise I dont really know. Sit back and see what happens.

[mr_wicked96]

Hmmm....I'm no expert, but what works for me is a combination of low and high reps during my workouts. For example on incline db bench after I do my warmups, I do two heavy sets for 6 reps, then two lighter sets for 10-12 reps. On the low rep stuff I take 1 min rest in between. For high reps I take only 20-30 sec. I do this for all bodyparts. Two sets low reps, then 2-3 sets high reps with minimal rest. May sound crazy, but it works for me.

[labradarep]

Most of the established strength training coaches & scientists agree on the following rep ranges & the responses you will get from your body if you follow these guidelines:

1-5 reps = strength training ( mostly nervous system stimulation little hypertrophy(in general)) 85% < of 1 RM

6-8 Reps = functional hypertrophy ( combo of NS & hypertrophy(metabolic response). Used extensively in sport oriented training programs as well as BB'ing. 79%-89% of 1RM

9-12 reps = hypertrophy (metabolic response = size & not a lot of strength gains). 70-78% of 1RM

13+ reps = Strength Endurance 69%> of 1RM

Now , remember these are general guidelines. As John G mentioned earlier the lines are blurred. Everyone has different genetic make ups & reacts differently to different set/rep/tempo/rest periods/ Time under tension, etc... We all recover at different rates due to many factors(sleep habits , nutrition, training intensity & volume, etc...)

To answer your question about lower reps & gaining size. Generally as I wrote earlier lower reps & higher intensity(loads) ellicit more of a NS response. Therefore your NS becomes more efficient at recruiting High Threshold motor units. These HTMU usually fatigue quite quickly because they lack Mitochondria(ie: do not use oxygen) . Because they fatigue quickly you generally cannot produce enough time under tension to make your body ellicit more of a metabolic response(hormonal). Thus, the increase in strength & not in size.

Their is a lot more to this puzzle. Hope this small bit helps.

[_Dominik_]

Originally Posted by markyg

Dom any specific exercises you use low reps with? I would imagine big compounds? Squats, Deads?

Mainly deadlifts and squats. For everything else I aim for 5 reps or higher.

Btw, something I've found with low rep strength work is you don't need to be frequently maxing out to make progress, especially at a more advanced level. Instead you can focus on doing several sets of of singles over 90% rather than trying to add more weight for a single max attempt. So if your DL max is 500, instead of trying to lift 505, you might want to aim for 3 or more sets of singles with 450-485, gradually increasing the weight and/or sets.

[gomez26]

funny readin this. i was just cleanin up my pc & come across this doc i saved a while back which talks about different types of trainin

[tdscott11]

For awhile now I've been working through an entire range of reps by starting an exercise at 5 reps and then increasing reps each week by 1 or 2 until I get to 10 and then bumping the weight up enough that I can only do 5 reps again. I also train alone at home so this may not be the fastest method of increasing strength but i've found it safer (failed on 2nd or 3rd rep benching a couple of times while trying to increase weight every workout instead of reps). Nothing sucks like getting stuck under a barbell you could barely lift to begin with. Anyways, it's worked for me.

[KopyKat]

Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI

the line is blurred many a time...

Correct as usual, this is why there is no way to say this rep range will do this for most people, what about their diet and other factors?

[John Prophet]

there is a continuum. obviously the super low 1-3 range is almost pure strength with minimal mass gain. Then you get up to around 10 reps and its getting into pure mass with very little 1rm strength gain.

so obviously as you move each step along from, say, 1-10 reps, as the reps increase the pure mass gain increases as the strength gains decrease

[awbasa]

Originally Posted by gomez26

funny readin this. i was just cleanin up my pc & come across this doc i saved a while back which talks about different types of trainin

Good Article