Military Talk

[bluemarlinO4]

Originally Posted by figure9

She take my money...

when Im in need.....

[jmonty]

Originally Posted by bluemarlinO4

I met a guy once who has been married to his gf from age 16. He got married at age 18 when he joined and they get along. Crazy how it works out for a few.

my wife was 17 when i met her. i was 21.

[Bushmaster]

Originally Posted by jmonty

my wife was 17 when i met her. i was 21.

No pedo?

[jmonty]

Originally Posted by Bushmaster

No pedo?

um, well, how about this weather!

nah, it was in europe so it was all good. we waited anyways.

[figure9]

Originally Posted by jmonty

i've been having problems with my run too. what the problem was [is] for me is that i was just not running enough, and i'm in CO, and i've put on some fat.

CO?? ****, that'll screw with anyone's run! I was in Cuzco, Peru a few years ago and I remember what the change in elevation was like. I felt like a 49 year-old 300lb. diabetic with athsma every time I had to go up a flight of stairs!

[J_Mart2387]

Originally Posted by bluemarlinO4

when Im in need.....

...she's a gold digger!?

[optimuspeterson]

Well this is interesting. New moving coming out

Stop-Loss

[jmonty]

Originally Posted by optimuspeterson

Well this is interesting. New moving coming out

Stop-Loss

about. ****ing. time.

[catmando]

Originally Posted by optimuspeterson

Well this is interesting. New moving coming out

Stop-Loss

That's why we need a draft.

[catmando]

U.S. Soldiers Stage Mutiny, Refuse Orders in Iraq Fearing They Would Commit Massacre in Revenge for IED Attack

We speak with a reporter from the Army Times who gives an inside account of how an army unit committed mutiny and refused to carry out orders in Iraq. After an IED attack killed five more members of Charlie 1-26, members of 2nd Platoon gathered for a meeting and determined they could no longer function professionally. Several platoon members were afraid their anger could set loose a massacre.

Guest:

Kelly Kennedy, medical reporter for Army Times. She is the author of the new four-part series Blood Brothers.

JUAN GONZALEZ: In what has been described as one of the most remarkable stories of the entire Iraq war, a reporter from the Army Times has given perhaps the first inside account of how an Army unit committed mutiny and refused to carry out orders in Iraq.

The incident occurred in Adhamiya, a district in northeastern Baghdad, where soldiers in the 2nd Platoon, Charlie Company, were stationed. The 2nd Platoon had lost many men since deploying to Iraq eleven months before. After an IED attack killed five more members of Charlie 1-26, members of 2nd Platoon gathered for a meeting and determined they could no longer function professionally. Several platoon members were afraid their anger could set loose a massacre. They decided to stage a revolt against their commanders that they viewed as a life-or-death act of defiance.

AMY GOODMAN: The story appears in a major four-part series called ?Blood Brothers,? published in the Army Times by the paper?s medical reporter, Kelly Kennedy. She was embedded with Charlie Company in Iraq in the spring and summer of this year. Kelly Kennedy joins us now from Washington, D.C.

Welcome, Kelly, to Democracy Now! Just lay out the story for us. How did it begin?

KELLY KENNEDY: Well, it began?I went to Adhamiya. I was working on a story about medics, and I had heard that Charlie Company had been hit particularly hard, and so I wanted to ride along with their medics and see what they were doing. They were doing some amazing things: tracheotomies on the battlefield and restarting hearts and just really great things.

Our second day there, my photographer, Rick Kozak, and I had gone out on patrol with them in the morning, and then they went out on a second patrol that we didn?t go on, and that was the day that the Bradley was hit, and they lost five men. So we watched them react to that. I guess what amazed me about that day was how strong these guys were for each other, but also how they were willing to look out for us, as reporters that they had just met. They flew us out of there that night.

And then, about a month later, I got a couple of emails from the guys saying, ?We just lost four more men, and they want us to go out on patrol, and we?re not going to do it.? And then, I couldn?t get back to them when I was in Iraq, but when they returned home to Germany, I went to see them.

And essentially, they?re the hardest hit unit in Iraq so far. I hope that the story would show people exactly what soldiers in Iraq are dealing with. I?m not sure Americans understand exactly what this war looks like to our soldiers. And we just went through the whole fifteen-month deployment in a four-part series, just showing exactly what had happened to them, from the youngest man in their unit throwing himself on a grenade to save four other men to battles that they went through. They were catching insurgents, and they were battling every day, but then they were exhausted, too, mentally and physically.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And in terms of the casualties, you have some startling numbers, in terms of the percentage of the men who were killed. Could you talk about that?

KELLY KENNEDY: Yeah. The company itself, there were 110 men who went out on patrol?there were probably 138 men in Charlie Company itself?and they lost fourteen men in twelve months. And the battalion, which is about a thousand people, lost thirty-one people altogether. So it?s pretty extreme.

AMY GOODMAN: You talk about right when you got there, the five men being killed by an IED. Tell us about Master Sergeant Jeffrey McKinney.

KELLY KENNEDY: OK, that was about a month later. First Sergeant McKinney was well loved by his men. He was Bravo Company. He was considered intelligent. When they had a question, he was the one they went to, because he could explain things. Everyone thought he was a great family man. One of the soldiers, Ian Nealon [phon.], told me that he used to ride to work with him every day and that he just loved him.

And one day, he went out on patrol with his guys, and they had just been called back into Apache, which was the name of the combat outpost where they were in Adhamiya, and he apparently looked?said that he had had it. He looked at a wall, he fired a round, and then he took his M4, and he put it under his chin, and he killed himself in front of his men. It left a lot of people just saddened and horrified. And then, the next week, Bravo Company was hit by an IED, and they lost four guys, too.

[macweisbeck]

i dont want a draft, im not fighting next to a person who doesnt want to go to war

[catmando]

AMY GOODMAN: The military first ruled it an accident, then admitted that it was a suicide.

KELLY KENNEDY: Well, I?m not sure they?they did an investigation. I don?t think they admit anything until they?re done with an investigation in the military. But, yeah, I think that they were worried about morale at first, and so when they called the guys back in, it wasn?t?they didn?t announce that their first sergeant had just killed himself; they said, ?There?s been an accident.? So?

JUAN GONZALEZ: Your series presents a really fascinating picture of how the medical folks who dealt with some of these soldiers, the psychologists who dealt with them, reacted to their situation, and also how the commander dealt with being faced with an actual mutiny by his troops. Could you enlighten us about that some more?

KELLY KENNEDY: Yeah, I think there?s?that?s one of the key differences of this war. I?m a veteran myself, and I served in Mogadishu, and I served in Desert Storm. We didn?t know what PTSD was?post-traumatic stress disorder. We didn?t have mental health people we could go to while we were out in the field or while we were out in battle. We didn?t talk about ethics. We didn?t talk about how we were feeling or how we would react professionally to certain situations. And these guys are. They?re going to mental health, and they?re saying, ?Hey, I?m upset about this.? And the mental health people are talking with the unit commanders and saying, ?Hey, maybe you need to pull your guys out Adhamiya,? or ?Hey, maybe your guys need some more rest.? And they?re certainly saying, ?Listen, if you think you?re going to act unprofessionally, you need to do something else. You need to take care of that.? And I think that?s huge. I don?t think a lot of people understand that that?s a big difference in this war, between the last war and this war.

And the reason they do that is because early on in this war we did have situations where troops did not behave properly. In Vietnam, we certainly saw it. For these guys to stand up and say, ?Listen, we?re not sure we can handle it right now,? could be considered very courageous, in my mind. The commander, I think, also realized that, and he said as much, that he sees the two sides of the situation.

After Bravo Company?s IED went off, Charlie Company was supposed to go back out and patrol the same area. When some of the members who had been patrolling with Charlie Company before the scout platoon went as the quick reaction force to the IED attack for Bravo Company, they were struck by how much it looked like the first IED attack that?the roadside bomb attack, and they reacted as if it were their own men, and they went right to mental health and they got sleeping medications, and they basically couldn?t sleep and reacted poorly.

And then, they were supposed to go out on patrol again that day. And they, as a platoon, the whole platoon?it was about forty people?said, ?We?re not going to do it. We can?t. We?re not mentally there right now.? And for whatever reason, that information didn?t make it up to the company commander. All he heard was, ?2nd Platoon refuses to go.? So he insisted that they come. They still refused. So volunteers went out to talk with them, and then he got the whole situation. In the meantime, it was called a mutiny, which is probably a bigger word than should be used for it, but that?s what the battalion called it.

And eventually, what they did was they separated the platoon. They said, you know, ?You guys aren?t acting well together anymore, so we?re going to split you up, and we?re going to have you work with other platoon sergeants, other squad leaders, and see if we can turn things around this way.? But they also punished them, in a sense, by flagging them and saying that they couldn?t get promotions and they couldn?t get their awards for two months. So there was a feeling that there had to be punishment for these soldiers refusing to go on a mission, but there was also understanding that the guys may have acted properly in this case.

AMY GOODMAN: Kelly Kennedy, I think what is so profound about this story is the refusal of the men to go out. Were there women, by the way, in this unit?

KELLY KENNEDY: No, it was all infantry.

AMY GOODMAN: The refusal of these men to go out, because they were afraid they would commit a massacre. Explain that.

KELLY KENNEDY: Yeah. They?re?I need to say this: they are good guys. I mean, I saw them take care of each other. I saw them take care of Iraqis.

When the IED, the roadside bomb, went off, it was so close to one of the Iraqi police stations that they should have been able to see somebody burying that. It was right in front of somebody?s house, and nobody said anything. Nobody said to these guys, ?Listen, there?s a bomb here. We?re worried about you,? even though they had been going out and patrolling and doing what they were supposed to be doing, in their minds. So when that IED went off and killed their five friends, they?re in?you have to understand, they?ve been living together for a year like brothers in the basement of this old palace. And it?s?they?re right on top of each other and going out and taking care of each other on the battlefield, daily firefights. And so, they?re closer probably than anyone could be. And when they lost their five men, they?I think they gave up on the Iraqi people.

If the Iraqi people weren?t willing to fight for them, then what was the point? And they were so angry. They just wanted to go out and take out the whole city. They didn?t understand why they couldn?t finish up what they call the war, and the whole idea of counterinsurgency is that you?re supposed to be building relationships, but they?re trying to build relationships with people who obviously aren?t that concerned about them. So this idea of a massacre was just?they were just so angry, they could barely contain it anymore.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And that sense that you capture so well in the article, the soldiers finding that they?re on a mission to help a people, but they have so much hostility from the very people that they are there to help, the impact of that on their fighting ability or on the morale.

KELLY KENNEDY: It was huge. And I think they can see it from both perspectives. We went out on patrol one morning. It was 6:00 in the morning, and they had to go in and search houses. And they were waking people up, and the Iraqis didn?t look happy to see them, and the guys weren?t happy to have to wake people up. And so, they?re sort of weary of each other anyway.

They were still doing the things that you see, handing out the teddy bears and playing with the kids and playing soccer and that sort of thing, but at the same time, they never felt safe. I mean, it was daily that they were catching grenades and live fire, and these IEDs were all over the place. They just never felt like they were getting anywhere.

When they thought that they had built a relationship with a Sunni colonel, the colonel was fired because the Baghdad government is Shiite, and they didn?t trust him as a colonel in the Iraqi army. So, as soon as he was gone, they had to start all over again. It just seemed like every time they made progress, it was slammed back down again. They just weren?t getting anywhere

AMY GOODMAN: Kelly Kennedy, I want to thank you for joining us and for doing this series of pieces, the medical reporter for Army Times. She?s the author of a four-part series, ?Blood Brothers.? We?ll link to it at our website, democracynow.org.

[catmando]

Originally Posted by macweisbeck

i dont want a draft, im not fighting next to a person who doesnt want to go to war

Well mac...enjoy your stop-loss.

[nutsy54]

Originally Posted by catmando

Well mac...enjoy your stop-loss.

Always good to know that Catman is looking out for us, since apparently we're too stupid to understand the world around us and make our own decisions.

[_XXL_]

It's risky talking about the military in here. I was negged for supporting our troops...now I only have 25 green.

[nutsy54]

Originally Posted by _XXL_

It's risky talking about the military in here. I was negged for supporting our troops...now I only have 25 green.

You'll find the pro-military sentiment FAR outweighs the anti-military around here. Especially since most of the anti-military is really anti-Bush, they just have so much hatred that it spills into everything else they see.

[ReSpAwN DeMoN]

What did the military do to me?

I used to have alot of buddies down here. (I'm in FL right now on leave)

where did they all go? Its like all awkward now. Some of them are just stupid now it makes me think "did I seriously used to hang out with that dude?"

everytime I come home on leave it gets weirder and weirder (friend wise, not family)

This is the first time I've taken leave in like... 1/2 a year. First time taking leave since I took post deployment leave. I've been home for 4 days already and I've done NOTHING but sat on my ass in my brothers room. My brother just turned 21 today and even he left without inviting me out to go drink on his 21st. But yet I found out alot of his (mine too) friends were out with him. This is freakin bull****.

I mean its not like its cheap, its very expensive to travel down here. airplane tickets are horrible now-a-day's, and I drive a truck. I'm an E3 they make almost as much money as the CEO of General Electric but I can't just throw around money like that ya know?

God I am so mad....

ALSO! During the day all my buddies are at school/work then they come home and smoke weed. I can't be around that!

I'm actually talking with my Marine buddies over the internet more then I am with my back home buddies and here I am in florida and still don't talk with them. How messed up is that?

I actually wanna go back to work. I actually wanna be at work. I wanna get my ass chewed I wanna say aye sergeant.

This is pathetic. And it gets worse. I have to spend even more money to drive back up to NC.

I remember the last time I went on leave I was still sorta kinda semi excited to go home. I remember the signs "welcome to florida" and got all excited. I wasn't excited this time. I was actually rather double thinking if I should continue driving to florida even though I was 12 hours into the drive..

fck this place

[nutsy54]

Originally Posted by ReSpAwN DeMoN

What did the military do to me?

It's not solely because you joined the military. The same thing happens to guys who go to college, or just move away to any new job. Like it or not, now you know all about the saying "You can never go home again"

[HELIX35]

Even when I got home from Iraq and we rated 4 days of combat leave I only took 10. I knew I'd get bored and itching to move on.

[optimuspeterson]

Originally Posted by nutsy54

It's not solely because you joined the military. The same thing happens to guys who go to college, or just move away to any new job. Like it or not, now you know all about the saying "You can never go home again"

Yeah, that happened more me when I went to college. I came back and saw everyone doing the same old boring thing. I have about one maybe two people I will try and get a hold of if I go back home.

[bluemarlinO4]

Originally Posted by nutsy54

It's not solely because you joined the military. The same thing happens to guys who go to college, or just move away to any new job. Like it or not, now you know all about the saying "You can never go home again"

yeah, I came home and went back into the reserves to go to college and I hate every minute of living at home with my lame ass friends who have done nothing but smoke them selves retarted after highschool.

I like surfing to try and keep my mind open but they always wanna do nothing but drink and smoke and nothing really fun.

[catmando]

Originally Posted by ReSpAwN DeMoN

What did the military do to me?

I used to have alot of buddies down here. (I'm in FL right now on leave)

where did they all go? Its like all awkward now. Some of them are just stupid now it makes me think "did I seriously used to hang out with that dude?"

everytime I come home on leave it gets weirder and weirder (friend wise, not family)

This is the first time I've taken leave in like... 1/2 a year. First time taking leave since I took post deployment leave. I've been home for 4 days already and I've done NOTHING but sat on my ass in my brothers room. My brother just turned 21 today and even he left without inviting me out to go drink on his 21st. But yet I found out alot of his (mine too) friends were out with him. This is freakin bull****.

I mean its not like its cheap, its very expensive to travel down here. airplane tickets are horrible now-a-day's, and I drive a truck. I'm an E3 they make almost as much money as the CEO of General Electric but I can't just throw around money like that ya know?

God I am so mad....

ALSO! During the day all my buddies are at school/work then they come home and smoke weed. I can't be around that!

I'm actually talking with my Marine buddies over the internet more then I am with my back home buddies and here I am in florida and still don't talk with them. How messed up is that?

I actually wanna go back to work. I actually wanna be at work. I wanna get my ass chewed I wanna say aye sergeant.

This is pathetic. And it gets worse. I have to spend even more money to drive back up to NC.

I remember the last time I went on leave I was still sorta kinda semi excited to go home. I remember the signs "welcome to florida" and got all excited. I wasn't excited this time. I was actually rather double thinking if I should continue driving to florida even though I was 12 hours into the drive..

fck this place

Dam even your BROTHER blows you off??? Maybe it's best you make that drive north. I wish I was in Raleigh right now. My sister lives there.

[-Ironside-]

Didn't realize how common this was.
I've been lost since I've been out, trying to pick up life where I can but I always feel like I'm missing something and that I just don't belong around 'normal' people. :\

[-Ironside-]

I hear ya about friends. Got back from Iraq and my best friend for 10 years wouldn't even talk to me anymore.
Now I have no friends here, all my real friends have been dying off one by one.
Feel like I should have taken their place

[Heavensport]

Originally Posted by Jetto Funk

I hear ya about friends. Got back from Iraq and my best friend for 10 years wouldn't even talk to me anymore.
Now I have no friends here, all my real friends have been dying off one by one.
Feel like I should have taken their place

You're only 24, why don't you re-enlist?

[catmando]

Originally Posted by Jetto Funk

...Feel like I should have taken their place

Don't talk like that. You don't want to even feel like that.

[jmonty]

Originally Posted by Heavensport

You're only 24, why don't you re-enlist?

are you kidding? did you read his post?

[ReSpAwN DeMoN]

You guys make me feel better.


I'm like... this is really depressing.

When I left I was all superduper motivated. All the Marines I work with like me and I like them. Even the unmotivated ones say I motivate them when I'm around. Like... **** I don't know... I'm just really depressed right now.

As much as I love the Corps. As much as I love putting that uniform on every single day (I usually hate it when I'm waking up and putting on my uniform and blousing my boots) but I'm talking about the big picture here. I love being a Marine, I love what I stand for. I love the fact that I'm just one guy out there, one guy that is carryinng on the traditions of our Corps, from generations past.

WHAT I AM GETTING AT. As motivated as I am. Even I count the days down until my enlistment ends. I have less then 2 years until my first contract ends (5 year contract), I count those days down. I make decisions years ahead of time to prevent failure.

I know I'm re-enlisting but I look at it like.
-What if I did get out?
-What if I got injured and got medically discharged?
-I meet the girl of my dreams and she cuts my balls off and puts them in her little jar and tells me to get out?

What would I come back to? This? Is this life? Is this what the real world is? Is this what that big scary place is that you gotta be careful? Cause quite frankly, I don't think I'm ready for it.

I'm a smart guy. I got a good head on my shoulders. I'm responsible. But I don't think I could handle this. I put one of my best best buds up against a wall. I knew this guy for years. And he talked **** about the military.
When I come home on leave I turn the military off. I take the Marine Corps and put it in my pocket. I don't shave (that lasts about a day) I still get haircuts cause I feel all nasty and have this deep inner feeling that chesty himself is watching me and just sucks his teeth at the newest generation of Marines and just rolls over in his grave cause I make him sick and he wants to throw up in his mouth.
ok wait.. what was I talking about, wow ADD... need meds ANYWAY! My point was, a buddy I knew for years talked **** about the military. He doesn't rate to do so. I straight up asked him if he's ever been in the military, ever served in combat, ever pulled 24 hour duties and then denyed of his day off. Ever got injured only for the dr to tell him that he thinks hes faking and just doesn't wanna PT. I told him all this right to his face. And then I politly told him to shut his face!

I mean seriously. The nerve...

Marines don't apologize, but I gotta apologize. I'm sorry for bitching moaning and complaining to ya'll. But this sucks. This really....

I never thought I would say this, but I cannot wait to return to Havelock North Carolina... the greatest place on earth! ya!

[Outside backer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5leMiif4pM


good vid for this time of yr

xmas alone sucks ass

btw its xmas here in 2 hs

[Deadly Dingo]

Woo i have basic recruit training on April 5th... good to have a date!